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Fresh and Fit have quit YouTube.
- Thread starter German Hops
- Start date
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
yeah, Aba & Preach are living in F&F's psyche rent-free.
It's interesting to see two grown men get so bothered by a commentary channel.
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Toons
Member
Not just a matrix, a paid matrix.
These guys peddle shite subscription services to insecure desperate lovers by pretending to be alpha males and women gurus. They encourage behavior that is antiquated EVEN for them(controlling women's money, ignoring their wishes during sex, monitoring their social media, and Occassional domestic abuse lite) and basicslly back these up by inviting various internet bimbos onto their platform in order to get into shouting matches with em.
Basically... theyre clowns, and their antics behind the veneer have been exposed various times, the one guy was caught begging another content creator for sex if they were to collab, and I'm pretty sure is a closeted gay man or lived as one once based on old photos that surfaced. The other guy is just... dumb and mostly a lackey.
Last I saw of these guys the one guy was wearing fake dreads and making monkey noises to ridicule another black creator on YouTube that they had a rivalry with.he also put on a fake Klan hood and started making bszi salutes.... It was... not pretty.
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killatopak
Member
wtf is a red pill? Is this some matrix easter egg or something?
22:22:22
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
Just don't take the black pill
22:22:22
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
22:22:22
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
Sorry kinda offtopic
If you want to get fit
Alan Thrall.
Just 200% sincerity. And great content all around.
If you want to get fit
Alan Thrall.
Just 200% sincerity. And great content all around.
22:22:22
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
It's when the red pill turns black and you start to view the world through a certain lens.
Toons
Member
They basically think they are "waking up " to the real world(like how neo took the red pill in the movie to learn the truth) in which things like women being able to initiate a divorce or have their own financial accounts is evil, and against the natural order. They push that guys are supposed to be emotionally distant and use women primarily for pleasure and menial tasks, while the women is to he emotionally dependant snd attached to the whims of the guy. Its really strange.
It's a bunch of hogwash but it ropes in a lot young dudes with few actual role models and/or folks whove been screwed by a woman, and generally just impressionable people who are terminally online. I've even seen some young buddies of mine come close to this stuff and once you take in a little bit of it they spiral you in usually with the intent of selling you something.
They are of course oblivious to the fact they are taking these ideas from two transgenders who made a progressive sci fi film one time...whole things jsut a mess and predatory. I feel bad for young dudes today
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German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
Seriously this.
Taking the red pill can have certain effects on an individual, but if it moves more towards nihilism, it's over.
Always stay positive and don't be a wappie.
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LegendOfKage
Member
See, first you say this, which all sounds really bad and is filled with allegations of objective details. And my first thought after reading this is these guys sound awful.
But then you say this about what "red pill" means, which is just about the most bad-faith, ridiculous, generalization filled description that could be made, which then makes me doubt everything you said in the first post. Unless you were still just talking about THESE two people, and then that might be understandable, if they really do push that sort of crap. But that still doesn't represent the term as as whole.
Could you instead come up with a description of "red pill" that isn't filled with bad faith, and might have actually come from someone who doesn't share your worldview? Would you be able to do that? How can you have conversations about these topics when you can't even properly restate the opinions of those who disagree with you?
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Soodanim
Member
I watch the odd A&P video from time to time and it's hard to imagine them "losing" any YouTube drama because their opinions are always reasonable and sane from what I've seen. If they're going against someone, I'd probably put my money on them being right without having seen the other side. I've seen a small amount of F&F through A&P and F&F are either fools or fakes making money off of other fools.
chromhound
Member
They can post it on Twitter/X no?
Kilau
Member
Sushi_Combo
Member
And nothing of value was lost
March Climber
Member
Here, I will help him and make it easier for you and others here, as I've been following this arc from it's inception.
Good parts of Red Pill:
+Promoting men's mental health
+Promoting men's fitness
+Promoting positive work ethic
+Promoting building finances
+Using the above 4 to get into a good relationship and financial situation with a potential partner
Bad parts of Red Pill:
-Telling men that they have to buy into your crypto or 'hustler university package' in order to do any of the above(siphoning money from fans)
-Telling men that they have to chase the materialistic things in life in order to feel happy instead of having a foundation and family(recently some redpillers have pivoted on this ever since Tate called them clowns for this, even though they started saying this based on his wording e.g. "Bugatti")
-Telling men to be in a one-sided open relationship with their significant other(99% chance recipe for failure) so that they can have a harem of women
-Telling men to follow the muslim path because it entirely conflicts with above point and there's no such thing as a 'new muslim' (no matter how much they try to make it a thing)
-Telling men that modern women are the reason that they are in their current negative situation (thus they can blame something other than themselves)
-Treating women as a sort of 'enemy' to conquer or 'lesser than', rather than another human being to cooperate with when together in a relationship and each person having their own role to fill
-Telling women they have to 'endure' when in an abusive relationship (the guy who said this was recently exposed for being a woman beater)
There is more on the negative side, but it goes into the nuances of how relationships work and the reason I won't bother to list them is due to the obvious: Every relationship is different so what works for you might not work for the next person. A lot of red pill content creators will attempt to ignore this and subscribe their specific lifestyle to all when the glove doesn't fit every hand.
The unfortunate thing here is that while this movement started out well intentioned (helping men feel like men again in modern times) the types of figures that have popped up, grifted, or steered the ship in the wrong direction since that moment have been numerous. Basically, like everything in life, some people will simply take things too far. They don't have any actual creed or ruleset to all abide by, so they all end up spouting different things or contradictory statements when those things are brought into question. Some are high religion(current day Sneako), Some are all about Miami lifestyle(Fresh and Fit), some are dominating to the point of abuse, and some are also a well spoken leader yet at the same time a chameleon(Tate). However, they all claim to be or are seen to have the ideal vision of redpill, all at the same time.
I recently had a younger family member who was in college, followed Tate and F&F, go down this rabbit hole, fail out of college 2 years in, and buy into crypto with what little money he had in his bank account. Now he's jobless, no degree, living with his mom(and annoying the living crap out of her because she doesn't 'fit' the red pill example of what a woman should be), and is on the verge of being kicked out due to this. Who I saw as a half-decent young man with a head on his shoulders has now become another follower of hustler's university, hoping to win a crypto lottery all so he can live life like Tate.
My advice to anyone who has a family member or friend who is going down this rabbit hole of red pill: Meet them halfway and be logical with them as to the good and bad aspects of it. If you approach them saying 'this is all bad, you are wrong' you're only going to drive them further down that path. There is good and bad to every aspect and every movement in life. Even the worst of people can say a correct thing, and there's no reason to treat someone as 'all wrong' just because you've planted a flag in the other direction(this helps with politics too). You have to be clear about that and most importantly, be factual. Lay it all out for them and let them decide where to go from there. Just be rational and hopefully they will see a better path for themselves. Not necessarily your path, but a better path for them.
LegendOfKage
Member
Sorry to hear about your younger family member, but good post. It still doesn't touch upon some of the aspects I generally associate with the whole "red pill" thing, but it's a very good start. All this crypto and cult of personality BS I'm seeing feels like a co-opting of the original point of the term, IMO, but it is an unfortunate truth of the situation as things are now for a lot of people.
As far as I'm concerned, the good faith original intent behind "red pill" wasn't about any of that crap, though. The point is you grow up being told how easy men have it, how women are oppressed and men are oppressors, and you hear about various statistics and facts that promote that view. But the idea of "taking the red pill" is to wake up to the idea that things aren't so black and white. Not to get into too detailed of a list, but it's the idea that women are advantaged in many ways and men are disadvantaged in other ways (alimony, child custody, prison, suicide, workplace deaths, homelessness, college, etc.). In many cases men are at the top of society, but they're also at the bottom.
The other part of this is the idea that those facts and statistics that promote the view that women are oppressed can often be explained, and those too aren't always so black and white. Here's an example of one of the recent claims you may have heard about a lot lately.
So that's "red pill," as far as the basic idea goes. You don't need to hate, fear, mistrust, or mistreat women to identify with any of the above. However, you're absolutely right that any sort of "you actually have it worse than you think you do, and these people have it better" messaging can lead to a dark path of resentment and anger. And yes, people will absolutely take advantage of people blinded by that sort of anger.
Lastly, you also don't need to identify with the term "red pill" or "feminist" to advocate for equal rights, fair treatment and mutual respect of both sexes. Labels divide people more than unite them, so I don't associate myself with any of them anymore.
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March Climber
Member
Good post. I think you're more referencing the Pre-Tate/proto-version of the term 'red pill' when that term first evolved from people who used to say 'stay woke' years ago to promote thinking outside of the box and outside of a black and white mentality, as you've stated, in order to question if the information they're being fed is accurate. I was more defining it for the current version of what it is, because both terms 'woke' and 'red pill' have both flipped/veered far off course from what they originally meant.
The unfortunate thing is that the people who are thinking of it the way you've stated it, are going to eventually have to come up with a new term. This is because in conversation when red pill is ever brought up, if you explain it the way you're explaining it, and then they go online and see videos of what I've described above, it will simply lead them to confusion or lead them down that path you were never intending them to go down. Words changing in definition is definitely an annoyance, but it's something we simply have to adapt to
Toons
Member
No one disagreed with me in the thread here, I wasn't responding to a disagreement.
Im mainly referring to these two creators because they are, or claim to be, pretty indicative of a LOT of the movements ideology, even if they take it to insan extremes.
HOWEVER, the stuff that I listed is not even some of the most far out stuff you will hear from folks who identify with this redpill circle. Not even fringe stuff, and if you were to delve into those spaces you would definitely hear being saying that same stuff.
You're saying I'm arguing in bad faith but can you honestly say that there aren't folks in the redpill movement who absolutely agree with those things?.. its a problem, and its made worse by the fact that its a direct pipeline to the blackpill stuff if you get too exposed to this where you literally can't view the world outside that lens. Once you're at that point there's no where else to go.
Why else do you think folks like these guys and tate have a steady fanbase that also identifies with redpill ideas?
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Toons
Member
I didnt see this other post before responding but yeah... all of this. This is great.
The thing that suxks about this for younger guys that are targeted is that, a lot of these "leaders" encourage making this central to your identity, so if you criticize any of the ideas or offer another path, then some begin to see it as you criticize THEM and wanting to push them down rather than helping them.
Theres a reason why the messaging is so hostile, they don't just say this is a good way to do things, they say if you dont you are a lesser man, you are weak, womanly, etc etc.
Things like personal exercise, keeping a routine, and learning how to handle money well will help ANYONE, but that is never a hostile behavior, it is one that offers to life others up and support them. And it allows for a healthy amount of vulnerability and emotional intuition, which will help you in relationships AND in life in general.
These guys go for the surface level benefits like being more physically attractive but ignore the other things.
I appreciate the more nuanced take on the whole thing, I tend to just reject it entirely because its too wrapped up in the grift, but for folks whove already started on that path this is a better response.
Jsisto
Member
I actually enjoy the Whatever podcast and I hope they rein it in a bit to avoid a similar fate. The conversations can actually be interesting with the right assortment of guests, but they tend to frame it in a very negative/hateful way with the wording of their shorts and clips from the full show just to get clicks. Seems pretty shortsighted and I really hope they address it.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Yuck. No thanks.
LegendOfKage
Member
That's not what "bad faith" means, though. It doesn't mean that I'm suggesting that you're lying or making things up. It means that you're finding some of the worst people in a group and holding them up as being representative of everyone in that group. You're attributing negative beliefs, opinions, and intentions to a group that many in that group would disagree with.
To argue in good faith basically means to argue as if the person you're debating is a good person with good intentions who just thinks differently about things than you do. And of course you do these things, because that's how you wish to be treated in return. If you've ever been accused of virtue signaling, told that you don't really care about a cause and you're saying what's popular, or been dismissed with "she's not going to fuck you" when defending a woman online, those are all examples of bad faith.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Braag
Member
I had a colleague who was into that red pill stuff. He was a nice and kind dude but also super lonely with some mental issues which came from his loneliness. He was 30 and never dated a girl.
Eventually he found a girl (we might had pushed him to finally talk to one girl he was interested in for a while) and once he strated dating, all that red pill stuff just dropped and he finds it laughable now.
Not saying every case is like this, but it does feel like these "alpha" males are just profiting off lonely guys.
ProtoByte
Member
You've just described most businesses today.
You have to be able to distinguish each creator, but yes, there's a good chunk of the audience that doesn't actually apply the lessons. Whose fault is that?
Peterson gets 99% of his flak from the progressive wing. When he gets flak from anyone else, it's because he's promoting 20th century "solutions" that are not applicable to the world as it is now.
ProtoByte
Member
Sounds like a guy who never had much self awareness, individualism or perspective in the first place. Changing your entire view simply because you finally got a date is not anymore healthy than indulging in red pill rage.
Here's when they brought a rapist on their show and had a laugh while he told his rape stories:
The fantasy they sell is basically just human trafficking. The sidekick here thinks he's a player because someone instructed three women to sleep with him. Buy his course and you too will have three women in one night, somehow:
The fantasy they sell is basically just human trafficking. The sidekick here thinks he's a player because someone instructed three women to sleep with him. Buy his course and you too will have three women in one night, somehow:
Tams
Member
That's very judgemental, and I presume you're doing it because being so has no repercussions on you.
Finding a partner can make a huge difference, especially if they prove your preconceptions wrong.
And being lonely can really mess with you.
Signed, T. Loner*.
*Loners tend to be comfortable being alone, whereas lonely people tend to not. But it's the same lack of human interaction and therefore the same issues can occur.
March Climber
Member
No, that’s the scapegoat everyone uses when they don’t want to own up to their shenanigans. The only thing that wielded power was the consequences of their own actions. Every website/company has it’s own terms of service, even GAF itself, which is why you don’t see some of the darker/edgier types on here that you would see on places like 4chan. That doesn’t make one better than the other, it makes different communities what they are, and it’s up to the individual to understand those terms and properly interact with them and the community.
If they break those terms multiple times, then it’s like not keeping your word, for example, when you owe a ton of money and never pay up. If that person sends people to threaten or hurt you about the money, you can’t say ‘the system is out to get me!’ because the guys breaking your bones over owed money won’t care. You broke their rules.
People have to remember that these tech companies are still companies, not a public town square. You are ‘entering their building’ when you do business with them. They only have so much rope to give until they’re fed up with certain actions that have an effect on their profitability. The fact that youtube is even as lenient and open as it is, while keeping everything running as they do, is astounding to say the least.
The good news for people who enjoy guys like these, is that rumble’s floodgates are fully open to these types of shenanigans(much like 4chan), and they now have a solid user base of their own. That is, until they seek more advertising of course.
It doesn’t matter. That person managed to get into a happier situation in life, and it’s a great example that it’s never too late to change. If you personally knew the guy he was talking about, the best thing to do would be feeling happy for where he is in life, rather than being upset that he isn’t as smart or as self aware as you.
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ProtoByte
Member
Judgemental? Have you been reading the comments on this thread?
Finding a partner is great, but losing them after staking your mentality on having one can mess you up worse than before. It often does.
Yes, being a drone doesn't matter. This is why there are so many of them.
If it's never too late to change for "the better" as you're insinuating, it's never too late to change for the worse.
I'm not upset. It's not my potential problem. It's an observation. And I'm not obliged to make it line up with your ideals, or lack thereof.
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March Climber
Member
Exactly, it shouldn’t matter to no one but them. If it helps for you to call them drones then so be it. They’re happy
It’s never too late to change for your own betterment, not “the better” because that implies there is only one correct path. For that person, he wasn’t happy before with what he was doing. Now he is. That’s why I said it doesn’t matter. Because It doesn’t matter how he got there, as long as he’s content. That story could have been the complete opposite(with him happy as a red pill high value man) and my answer would be the same. Would your answer be the same?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Toons
Member
None of the stuff I said is from the worst of them though. Most of the stuff I listed are basic tenets of the whole thing, if not a less extreme pipeline to them.
The ideology inherently sets up an ideological enmity between men and women, and if not for treating women as objects, it absolutely espouses seeing women as obstacles. Theres really no denying that.
And thats not something I can stand behind or endorse in any way. Its not healthy.
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Bigbelly
Banned
That's because you're trapped in the Matrix, my friend..
Isn’t that the film made by a pair of trans sisters?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
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DeaDPo0L84
Member
Calling people pussies while you're happy someone you didn't even watch got removed from a platform you use, love it.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
We've already established there's no emotion behind this thread.
It's simply out of interest with the goings on between the Red Pill and mainstream media.
F & F are one of the biggest Red Pill influencers out there, so I thought it could spark a reasonable discussion about the state of the Red Pill or just men's issues in general.
TL;DR : You can fuck off, wappie.
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Meicyn
Gold Member
thats hot got any moreOne of them got exposed kissing some dudes, so you might be correct.
DeaDPo0L84
Member
You can't regulate stupidity. It exist on both sides of the political isle and everywhere else regarding a wide range of topics. Censoring it doesn't make the stupid people who follows these morons suddenly stop, it just makes it seem like they might be onto something and the media overlords don't want you to find out which pushes the nonsense even further. I'd rather have people being their typical stupid selves right out in public on whatever the biggest platform available is, then hiding off in some corner still having an influence. But I also had no clue who these people were so if I didn't see this thread I would be none the wiser of their existence.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
I think you're lacking compassion, though.
If Fresh and Fit gets blackballed by popular platforms such as YouTube and are unable to make money, where does that leave them and their crew?
It's not like they can go out and get regular jobs after this.
Any employer will do a background check and find out what these guys preach - at which point it's over.
They've sacrificed their entire livelihoods just to address men's issues and help them improve.