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Forza Horizon 5 Next Gen performance targets revealed. RT only utilized in Forzavista
- Thread starter Snowdonhoffen
- Start date
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
So to combat perceived concern trolling we go to heights in here like “RT is not needed in Mexico” and other put downs such as “who cares about the final quality people can see, in GT7 RT reflections are at lower res”, “Ratchet’s screenshots are from photo mode (as if the normal Quality mode gameplay was a lot worse RT quality and people could not see it for themselves)”, etc…The concern trolling around no RT and photo mode is doubly funny once you realize that GT7 RT is something like 720p native and that 95% of R&C screenshots I see around the forum are from photo modeI also award an extra point for the "invisible RT" in Forbidden West.
FH5 is the best looking car game by far, with or without RT.
Want to put down real concern trolls that are trying to imply FH5 looks bad (it does not), we can do that without making things up.
assurdum
Banned
Ok so now raytracing is bad when it's not native resolution and better to have SSR or cubemaps or nothing. Wow. Talking about trolling.The concern trolling around no RT and photo mode is doubly funny once you realize that GT7 RT is something like 720p native and that 95% of R&C screenshots I see around the forum are from photo mode
FH5 is the best looking car game by far, with or without RT.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
RT can be a wast, RT can be useful. Back before the performance RT mode for Spider-man, the choice was clear for me: 30 FPS RT mode. More realistic reflections completely changed some scenes in the game: sometimes you would be in a back alley and the reflection on a window showed the main road without RT reflections. In a more linear game you can perhaps regenerate those reflections with more localised cube maps and screen space techniques but for an open world game where that would take an ungodly amount of time RT reflections can really help.
Rea
Member
"How are you making use of the console’s ray tracing tech?
Mathijs de Jonge: We use ray tracing technology for a lot of things in the game. We use it for the sound engine, for the physics and for the rendering. So we use a variety of technical setups, in terms of ray tracing. I'm not a tech engineer, so I can't explain it in much more detail than this. But yes, we are utilizing it."
Interview: Horizon Forbidden West's creators promise a highly ambitious sequel
Will Aloy finally get to fly on a machine? We talked to the creators of Horizon Forbidden West to find out.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
What part did I make up? I didn't run a statistical analysis of course, but the vast majority of screenshots are from photo mode. There's nothing wrong with that btw, I'm not concerned about photo mode like others.
It doesn't have to be native resolution, but it should be close enough to not look ugly. Otherwise it's not worth the effort.
intheinbetween
Member
Like from scratch for next gen, it's not the same situation as for FH4 which runs by bc, so it has its enhancements as many XBOX ONE/ ONE X games
killatopak
Member
I think the argument against that is some people are fine with sacrifices stuff mainly res and framerate for RT.
I mean for example, I am still using a 1080p monitor so I'm fine with res going as low as 1080p if it means I'll have RT plus 60fps.
Negotiator101
Member
Doesn't seem clear on how it's utilised, the footage so far has no visual Raytracing but possibly it's being used for audio."How are you making use of the console’s ray tracing tech?
Mathijs de Jonge: We use ray tracing technology for a lot of things in the game. We use it for the sound engine, for the physics and for the rendering. So we use a variety of technical setups, in terms of ray tracing. I'm not a tech engineer, so I can't explain it in much more detail than this. But yes, we are utilizing it."
Interview: Horizon Forbidden West's creators promise a highly ambitious sequel
Will Aloy finally get to fly on a machine? We talked to the creators of Horizon Forbidden West to find out.
Kenpachii
Member
"How are you making use of the console’s ray tracing tech?
Mathijs de Jonge: We use ray tracing technology for a lot of things in the game. We use it for the sound engine, for the physics and for the rendering. So we use a variety of technical setups, in terms of ray tracing. I'm not a tech engineer, so I can't explain it in much more detail than this. But yes, we are utilizing it."
Interview: Horizon Forbidden West's creators promise a highly ambitious sequel
Will Aloy finally get to fly on a machine? We talked to the creators of Horizon Forbidden West to find out.
Waste of resources spend
Game could have bumped the visual fidelity up a lot more without it.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You brought it up as if it meant something dismissive: oh yeah people are posting pictures from photo mode (as if we had not seen real time Quality mode gameplay and it looked excellent). This is almost borderline made up concern mate. At least you did not say RT is useless in Mexico like some others did sure
.It does not look ugly. Something tells me you are keen to take GT7 Super closeups and tear them apart but would not welcome this on FH5 or others. Then again it is not the point but it is what this kind of gets in threads like this: why to tackle concern trolls should we do counter concern trolling and be negative about things that do not really warrant it?
Rea
Member
Raytracing can be used for other rendering techniques, it's not only for reflection. If you're looking for just Raytraced reflection, then the game doesn't have it.
Negotiator101
Member
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is odd, but I guess I am not likely to see you put down a major XSX game because it is using RT and could be doing something instead that uses power better.
Praising FH5 great looks like this is straight console warring, defend thy honour by attacking another title on a competing console that looks quite excellent… ah ok /sarcasm… yes, must be it
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Rea
Member
It's not a waste, they are using RT hardware for better rendering techniques for more immersive open world experience. It might look worse than what they have shown, without it.
Rea
Member
No one knows yet, maybe they are using RT for accelerating GI and other high definition quality lights. Horizon uses alot of lights in the game.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
No, I brought it up because of the irony of it. Shit on photo mode but then rejoice over photo mode screenshots in a different game
The reflections look bad imo. Same for Spiderman performance RT mode, it looks really rough when you look at it closely. But it works in motion for both games, so it's fine. But not really better than good SSR. R&C is miles (heh) ahead in that regard.
Skifi28
Member
I didn't realise Gaf was a collective consciousness.
TBiddy
Member
Why bring up R&C, Horizon and GT7 in this thread? All of them look amazing. but have nothing to do with how FH5 looks. You can praise games from both consoles you know. Lets work on doing better.
Unfortunately, a lot of these blanket statements tend to get thrown around. I've tried a few times, when these statements are made, to ask for examples on who the person were referring to, but to no avail.
Unfortunately, a lot of these blanket statements tend to get thrown around. I've tried a few times, when these statements are made, to ask for examples on who the person were referring to, but to no avail.
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Negotiator101
Member
Kenpachii
Member
It's a waste, just look at PC RT and see how much of a performance impact it has. U honestly think RT comes in for free in any of those titles? RT is useful for some cases. most of the cases its completely pointless as nobody will ever notice it and increased fidelity / physics will do far more for a game to sell it.
If horizon would include RT, u can bet the quality will drop drastically.
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Rea
Member
The difference is that one has Raytraced reflection in both gameplay and photo mode, but the other one has only in photo mode and not in the gameplay.No, I brought it up because of the irony of it. Shit on photo mode but then rejoice over photo mode screenshots in a different game
JeloSWE
Member
Tnx I know, it's just so weird haha grrrr!
Rea
Member
RTGI, according to Cerny's Road to PS5, it is less demanding than RT Reflection. DF and NX were just looking for RT Reflections, so they thought it wouldn't exist in this game. They are just speculating.I'm no expert but both Digital Foundry and NXGamer didn't see any form of Raytracing in the demo. It's possible some form of raytraced reflections could be added but RTGI is very computationally expensive and is unlikely, but who knows?
Rea
Member
Then why nvidia, amd, sony Microsoft put dedicated RT hardware in their GPUs? If it is just a waste?... why waste silicon space if it is not needed??
sncvsrtoip
Member
r&c has 4kcb rt, gt7 4k60 with 1080p rt (tough still not confirmed rt is available during gameplay) and yes fh5 looks very good even without rt (imho not so important in racing games), 30fps is bigger problem, question how does look performance modeThe concern trolling around no RT and photo mode is doubly funny once you realize that GT7 RT is something like 720p native and that 95% of R&C screenshots I see around the forum are from photo mode
FH5 is the best looking car game by far, with or without RT.
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Kenpachii
Member
Nvidia does it, for the sake of selling new gpu's, because of no competition + overhead.
AMD follows because everybody shits on them for being outdated with the 5000 series cards, but even then they spend minimal effort on it.
Consoles follow, because they are playing PS4 games on a high end PC at this point and have left over performance anyway.
Next gen games however, its fucking useless for 95% of the cases. Unless u let your character walk in a mirror room which is all to hot these days to demonstrate it. If you actually have a game with half decent reflections already, its barely to not noticable to practically 95% of your population if it has raytracing or not.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Yeah it's a good question. The gameplay was at 4K60 which means it ran on a PC. I hope the downgrade isn't too harsh, I'd be fine with 1440p60 and slightly lower details on XSX.
Negotiator101
Member
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Yep, RTGI absolutely destroying performance as expected. Always found it weird that Cerny said RTGI isn't that heavy.
JeloSWE
Member
The end goal or holy grail if you will for graphics and Nvidia/AND is to be able to do real time RT for everything, GI, reflection/refractions, shadows, SSS etc, the fact that we are able to do it this well in real time is impressive. You have to start some where and this is just the beginning. Not perfect by far but at least it has begun. The RT hardware can also be used for non visual stuff, it can help with enemy vision/detection, sounds reflecting off and around surfaces etc.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
FH5 is cross gen.
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Negotiator101
Member
I think he just made a mistake, it happens. It's well known RTGI is most performance intensive, that's why we only see games doing reflections.
Shmunter
Member
Oh is it?!? Ok, my mistake.
TBiddy
Member
Or maybe they just arrived at the same conclusion as you - that RT is overrated?
Negotiator101
Member
Are you feeling alright? One paragraph you say RT should be in and then you say it's not worth it
Shmunter
Member
You’d hope so, but I find these decisions are often driven by box ticking and chest beating
Shmunter
Member
NopeAre you feeling alright? One paragraph you say RT should be in and then you say it's not worth it
Rea
Member
I don't agree with you, RT in RnC looks amazing and very noticable. RT improves visual in that game. Without RT many surfaces look flat and unnatural. The game even has performance RT with 60fps. Still looks amazing. Cyber punk without RT will look like last gen. It is not useless. RT hardware also can be used to accelerate other rendering techniques. Lots of devs are praising it.
FH5 looking very pretty, with RT it will look even prettier, thats why they utilize RT in photo mode. They dropped during gameplay, maybe because they are still optimizing their engine for this game. They might even patch the update in the future. I believe next FH will have RT in gameplay.
This doesn't look any different from Forza Horizon 4 on PC.
I'm surprised this isn't 4k60 on the Xbox X.
Disappointing visuals.
TBiddy
Member
I trust Playground enough to consider them above that. If we were talking about 343, I'd be right there with you.
alucard0712_rus
Member
Hate to say but I agree. Looks like same engine but improved. Higher draw distance is first thing I've noticed and there is volumetric fog (maybe weather will be better). Disappointed at lack of RT personally.
GHG
Member
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I'm surprised that people are so critical of this... oh, hang on, it's a Microsoft game? Oh, I get it now.
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