Support NeoGAF

[Fbh]

my problem with Edge has been the consistency. I love that they give out 7s and 8s to games like GOW and MGS4, but when they turn around and had out 9s to equally mediocre games.

I appreciate Edge using the full scale and not giving high scores to all big hyped games.

Doesn't mean some of their reviewers dont have a shit taste lol

 

[ungalo]

Every game has it's identifying traits (not always flattering when mentioned); the point the person you are responding to, was trying to dismiss of "Sony" games. Just as you are quick to point out how it doesn't depict the design of those games, calling a Sony game a "walking sim" or simply "cinematic" does not depict the design of those games — your WRPGs blend dialogue with gameplay, while the "Sony games" blend cinematics with gameplay. Let's also not forget, what you are now calling Sony games, are linear games, linear games that have existed long before Sony studios found success with them. As for it not being pushed on you....well that is a weird way to put it, if it is in the game and you don't want it there or it's the part that you like the least, it is "forced" on you.

I think the post was intending to describe WRPGs as games with bad, or light, gameplay saved by their dialogues (dialogues in the pure writing sense of it, not even narrative design). So it could seem those games are as narrative driven as Sony games and that "narrative" means the same thing in both cases, wich would be very misleading.

Same thing with the term "walking sim". I'm not saying it depicts the exact experience of a Sony game, that would be of bad faith, but i understand what sequences are targeted and why they would be described as such at least. Nothing to do with walking in a Bethesda open world for example.

I'm not talking about linear games, this is far too vague. It can be a useful qualifier but it's not enough (like you said there are plenty of linear games, and very different ones) and in some cases with paradoxical games like God of War again it can be misleading.

English is not my first language, i'm generally trying to be the most understandable possible but also to make posts that are brief enough. Maybe "forced" wasn't the good word but what i mean is there is a big difference between a game where you follow a story and a game where you're not only driving dialogue sequences (can make them way shorter according to what you like or what you'd like you character to be) but where those sequences are just a piece of the design puzzle, and when i say design i don't mean on the dev side (how they want the game to feel, how they want the pacing to be, how they structure the game) but pure game design (what are the rules of the game, what can i do as a player).

 

[Raven117]

Ya know. I just kinda agree about the gow score. I have the same gripes. It’s still a great game (Maybe an 8) but, yeah…

 

[Raven117]

Damn we survived that 7 from edge

Gamecritics is still on the horizon though and we are too low on the 94 rankings to survive it I fear unless we get another 100 as a buffer

Im sorry, “we?” Is this a joke?

 

[fart town usa]

Clicked on it wondering about the GOW score and literally had a good laugh. I needed that, it's been an exhausting day.

Not trying to be a hater, the laugh came from anticipation of reading the rage comments.

 

[sainraja]

I think the post was intending to describe WRPGs as games with bad, or light, gameplay saved by their dialogues (dialogues in the pure writing sense of it, not even narrative design). So it could seem those games are as narrative driven as Sony games and that "narrative" means the same thing in both cases, wich would be very misleading.

Same thing with the term "walking sim". I'm not saying it depicts the exact experience of a Sony game, that would be of bad faith, but i understand what sequences are targeted and why they would be described as such at least. Nothing to do with walking in a Bethesda open world for example.

I'm not talking about linear games, this is far too vague. It can be a useful qualifier but it's not enough (like you said there are plenty of linear games, and very different ones) and in some cases with paradoxical games like God of War again it can be misleading.

English is not my first language, i'm generally trying to be the most understandable possible but also to make posts that are brief enough. Maybe "forced" wasn't the good word but what i mean is there is a big difference between a game where you follow a story and a game where you're not only driving dialogue sequences (can make them way shorter according to what you like or what you'd like you character to be) but where those sequences are just a piece of the design puzzle, and when i say design i don't mean on the dev side (how they want the game to feel, how they want the pacing to be, how they structure the game) but pure game design (what are the rules of the game, what can i do as a player).

Sony games like God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us are linear games by design — they have good gameplay along with interesting characters with a focus on being cinematic. I think his post was deliberately doing that to highlight how ridiculous people saying "walking sim" and "cinematic" are. That was the point (whether he actually believes that or not is besides the point). WRPGs have their place, just like God of War, Uncharted, etc. Variety is the spice of life. If linear games like GOW/Uncharted/TLOU aren't for you, that is fine, but to characterize them as "movies" is wrong and is simply done in bad faith, the people that he was calling out.

 

[fart town usa]

I love how “indie” games can basically be text based movies and some people will lose their shit while at the same time complaining about aaa “movie games”

 

[hinch7]

Can't say I'm massively surprised by the GoW score. It lacks the heart of the original and is extremely claustrophobic. At least in the 2018 game there was that huge area you could sail around and re-visit after the water level went down. Felt like a real journey. While not open world I liked the fact it branched off to different areas. This years GoW feels so linear in comparison. They have done the unthinkable and given you a false sense of scale when in fact it's actually a corridor brawler. Really disappointing tbh. Don't get me wrong it's a good game, just not GOTY material.

Most GoW games are linear by design. Only 2018 broke the mould in that respect. And it ended up being 20+ hours long just for the story.

This was SSM wanting to make a complete saga in two games. If they made it any more open that would've dragged the game out even longer. And we know how long the game is already..

 

[gow3isben]

Clicked on it wondering about the GOW score and literally had a good laugh. I needed that, it's been an exhausting day.

Not trying to be a hater, the laugh came from anticipation of reading the rage comments.

The earlier troll did Edge a huge favor now we are all just relieved it is a 7 lol

 

[remember_spinal]

I love how “indie” games can basically be text based movies and some people will lose their shit while at the same time complaining about aaa “movie games”

If its pixel art or 2d low quality animations it breaks the illusion of being a movie so it doesn’t count.

But then again, immortality is literally a movie and no one called it a movie game

 

[Arsic]

GoW R a 7? Sure I can see that. Many don’t like the story especially the ending, and prefer 2018s more open structure.

Call of Duty a 6? I don’t know man. This is the most comprehensive package CoD has put out in a very long time, some major tweaks to formulas, etc but I mean I guess if we only look at the non warzone/DMZ side we can say the campaign is a bit of a miss, day one bugs, hulu UI sucks etc.

Sonic Frontiers is a 3!?!? Ok you fucking lost me. When you say 3 you are saying broken , unplayable majority of the time, bugs, issues, etc. This game is the definition of a 6 or 7/10 minimum even if it isn’t your cup if tea and if it is then you will enjoy it far more and score it much higher.

It’s less about “objectivity” and just blatant shit takes. That score is there only to drive hits, cause drama, etc to give them attention. How you could arrive at a 3 is if you took a mentally retarded person , beat him in the head with hammers, let him play sonic for 5 seconds and ask him to pick a number 1 through 3.

 

[tommib]

GoW R a 7? Sure I can see that. Many don’t like the story especially the ending, and prefer 2018s more open structure.

Call of Duty a 6? I don’t know man. This is the most comprehensive package CoD has put out in a very long time, some major tweaks to formulas, etc but I mean I guess if we only look at the non warzone/DMZ side we can say the campaign is a bit of a miss, day one bugs, hulu UI sucks etc.

Sonic Frontiers is a 3!?!? Ok you fucking lost me. When you say 3 you are saying broken , unplayable majority of the time, bugs, issues, etc. This game is the definition of a 6 or 7/10 minimum even if it isn’t your cup if tea and if it is then you will enjoy it far more and score it much higher.

It’s less about “objectivity” and just blatant shit takes. That score is there only to drive hits, cause drama, etc to give them attention. How you could arrive at a 3 is if you took a mentally retarded person , beat him in the head with hammers, let him play sonic for 5 seconds and ask him to pick a number 1 through 3.

Edge doesn’t drive hits. They’re not online.

 

[Crayon]

I have a subscription. If you don't, just be glad you only see the scores because it's painful to read.

Lol jk there's some good stuff in there but overall I've found it pretty disappointing.

 

[remember_spinal]

I have a subscription. If you don't, just be glad you only see the scores because it's painful to read.

Lol jk there's some good stuff in there but overall I've found it pretty disappointing.

I was thinking about getting a sub just for the covers lol

 

[tommib]

I have a subscription. If you don't, just be glad you only see the scores because it's painful to read.

Lol jk there's some good stuff in there but overall I've found it pretty disappointing.

What do you find painful? They had like a 10 page deep dive on the production of Callisto last number and I can’t think of a magazine better written and structured. Also, they’re constantly giving focus to under the radar titles.

Any why do you have a subscription if you find it painful to read? Stockholm syndrome?

 

[laynelane]

you know... I kinda like edge magazine and its review scores.

For example, the first GOW on ps4 shouldn't have got more than 7 to 8 out of 10. GOW3 was much superior to that game and still holds too even after GOW:R. so 8 out of 10 for R is a fair score.

Sonic review.. even IGN couldn't play the game very well due to its technical issues. including the fact, you can't see shit in front of you due to pop-ins. this alone to me at least breaks the game.

Good thing these reviews are just opinions and everyone is different.

I'd rate GoW 2018 as a 10 and would also rate the older games highly. Still, I can accept you rate it lower because, as you say:

Good thing these reviews are just opinions and everyone is different.

I don't really get the idea of treating other peoples' opinions as some sort of authority on a game's quality. Whether it's a published opinion or winner (or loser) of awards, I believe the most important opinion is your own when making such judgements.

 

[Crayon]

I was thinking about getting a sub just for the covers lol

It's actually pretty nice to have on the coffee table and such.

What do you find painful? They had like a 10 page deep dive on the production of Callisto last number and I can’t think of a magazine better written and structured. Also, they’re constantly giving focus to under the radar titles.

More like dissapointing. I never read as much edge as I did next generation (and I spent a long long time thinking there was more crossover than there really was) and damn this is just not what I was hoping for. You used to get long interviews with Yu Suzuki or Trip Hawkins n shit almost every issue. Now it's 6 pages at a time with another kid making a metroidvania about their feelings. I also think the reviews are a little wack . Like, consistently eyebrow raising. They're are all over the place.

What is painful tho is the size of the print. Was magazine print always this small? I probably hadn't read one in like a decade. My eyes are just starting to get old but it only effects stuff like <6 inches from my face, so far.

Now if you can't be bothered to dig up the most promising indies, that's where it's been good. I've got a couple winners out of it.

 

[tommib]

It's actually pretty nice to have on the coffee table and such.



More like dissapointing. I never read as much edge as I did next generation (and I spent a long long time thinking there was more crossover than there really was) and damn this is just not what I was hoping for. You used to get long interviews with Yu Suzuki or Trip Hawkins n shit almost every issue. Now it's 6 pages at a time with another kid making a metroidvania about their feelings. I also think the reviews are a little wack . Like, consistently eyebrow raising. They're are all over the place.

What is painful tho is the size of the print. Was magazine print always this small? I probably hadn't read one in like a decade. My eyes are just starting to get old but it only effects stuff like <6 inches from my face, so far.

Now if you can't be bothered to dig up the most promising indies, that's where it's been good. I've got a couple winners out of it.

Totally agree with the size of the print. I even emailed them. That fucking font needs a magnifying glass to be read.

I just think they write good English and they really stand apart from anything written online.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Reviews are useless for determining how much you will enjoy games. I play games that interest me first, I form my own opinion, and then I see which reviews actually agree with me, if I even care to go that far.

 

[Three]

Why would I want to?

Dude wasted five hours of his life to pull that off?

He is a youtuber so he didn't waste it. He has a somewhat popular channel. I've watched his GMGOW no damage runs for GOW2018, he's a beast:

 

[DavidGzz]

I'd give GoW: R an 8.5 myself. Edge almost always gives PlayStation most games low scores (compared to metacritic) so this isn't a surprise.

Of their 24 10s, 5 of them are PS exclusive so that doesn't seem true. I thought the game was a 9 for the first couple of hours, but after a while it became more of the same and I mostly agree with the quote from Edge Magazine. Still, I'd give it more of an 8 or so. There is room for improvement in the next one.

Bloodborne, Dreams, Gran Turismo, Little Big Planet, and Last of Us. Nintendo may have more but they have also made consoles for like 12 more years and let's face it, they don't take as many risks. Wait, Nintendo has the same amount or am I tripping?

 

[Crayon]

Totally agree with the size of the print. I even emailed them. That fucking font needs a magnifying glass to be read.

I just think they write good English and they really stand apart from anything written online.

Honestly, that's why I sub to begin with. I just wanted to see some halfway f****** decent writing about games. And there is good writing in there. It's just that so much of each issue is on stuff that's of no interest to me.

 

[Topher]

Of their 24 10s, 5 of them are PS exclusive so that doesn't seem true. I thought the game was a 9 for the first couple of hours, but after a while it became more of the same and I mostly agree with the quote from Edge Magazine. Still, I'd give it more of an 8 or so. There is room for improvement in the next one.

Bloodborne, Dreams, Gran Turismo, Little Big Planet, and Last of Us. Nintendo may have more but they have also made consoles for like 12 more years and let's face it, they don't take as many risks. Wait, Nintendo has less than Sony or am I tripping?

I struck out PlayStation and changed it to say "most games" instead since I was definitely off base there. Their scoring system, as Hendrick's pointed out, uses the scoring scale more broadly than other reviewers. Only 24 10s isn't a lot at all. So their scores don't really match up with other reviews. A 7 is actually pretty great for them.

Pretty sure Nintendo has more 10s from Edge than Sony.

Super Mario 64
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Bayonetta 2
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Super Mario Odyssey

 

[DavidGzz]

I struck out PlayStation and changed it to say "most games" instead since I was definitely off base there. Their scoring system, as Hendrick's pointed out, uses the scoring scale more broadly than other reviewers. Only 24 10s isn't a lot at all. So their scores don't really match up with other reviews. A 7 is actually pretty great for them.

Pretty sure Nintendo has more 10s from Edge than Sony.

Super Mario 64
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Mario Galaxy 2
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Bayonetta 2
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Super Mario Odyssey

Yeah, I kept missing 1 or 2 when attempting to count, lol. 8 vs. 5 is still pretty good for Sony. I initially left Bayonetta out since it's second party but maybe some of the Sony ones are as well, I didn't check. And yeah, I didn't notice the edit on the post I quoted. Agreed!

 

[Topher]

Yeah, I kept missing 1 or 2 when attempting to count, lol. 8 vs. 5 is still pretty good for Sony. I initially left Bayonetta out since it's second party but maybe some of the Sony ones are as well, I didn't check. And yeah, I didn't notice the edit on the post I quoted. Agreed!

Yeah, Bloodborne. The first Bayonetta got a 10 as well, but that was one was strictly third party.

 

[tommib]

Yeah, Bloodborne. The first Bayonetta got a 10 as well, but that was one was strictly third party.

They also re-reviewed RE4 from a 9 to a 10 which was for a while a first party Nintendo game?

 

[Topher]

They also re-reviewed RE4 from a 9 to a 10 which was for a while a first party Nintendo game?

Yes, my impeccable memory (aka google) recalls it was exclusive to Gamecube for a time.

 

[Kokoloko85]

The comparison was pretty lazy that's all.

Its lazy because I feel people do the same thing by lumping in games like Uncharted, TLOU, God of War as Walking sim or Cinematic games.
They have great polished gameplay, with decent stories and a high level of voice acting.
WRPG’s aren’t ”cinematic” but just lots of talking and kinda poor gameplay/combat.
People who complain about Cinematic are just stuck in the old ways. JRPG’s have hours of reading, or MGS have hours of Cutscenes. They all have a different way of telling a story, but the gameplay/combat is far superior in games like God of War compared to Skyrim etc. For some people thats they want to level up skills and talking with NPC’s but to some people thats as much as a talking to sim as TLOU is a walking sim

 

[GHG]

You don't seem to understand that for some, games are penalized by what they're not, as much as they're celebrated for what they are.

Horizon Zero Dawn is my case in point.

Pinnacle of the Ubisoft school of open world game design, and then right afterwards, damn near on top of it came a game that was a resounding rejection of that very school of game design.

Breath of the Wild.

That was 2017 and now in 2022, you've got Ragnarok.

It's an action adventure game, where certain aspect of the traversal gameplay has no fail states.
There's other games with similar design choices and for some, this common trend has now become a flaw.

Same with the constant chattering companions, or characters who ramble to themselves.

Another design choice that for some, may have become a point of criticism.

Or whatever else someone is irked by in a game.

Reviews aren't objective, they're nicely worded opinion pieces so why are you so miffed that someone else's opinion of other games contradicts your own?

Stop looking for validation beyond what you yourself enjoy in gaming.

Who are you even talking to with this? Not once have I been critical of edge's review in this thread. But congratulations on the ramble I guess.

 

[shiru]

Its lazy because I feel people do the same thing by lumping in games like Uncharted, TLOU, God of War as Walking sim or Cinematic games.
They have great polished gameplay, with decent stories and a high level of voice acting.
WRPG’s aren’t ”cinematic” but just lots of talking and kinda poor gameplay/combat.
People who complain about Cinematic are just stuck in the old ways. JRPG’s have hours of reading, or MGS have hours of Cutscenes. They all have a different way of telling a story, but the gameplay/combat is far superior in games like God of War compared to Skyrim etc. For some people thats they want to level up skills and talking with NPC’s but to some people thats as much as a talking to sim as TLOU is a walking sim

Cinematic games like TLOU and CoD suck dog shit.

 

[BiohazardX95]

Most Sony titles are videogames for people that hate videogames.

Is the other way around, Sony games are actually pushing the Best gameplay, graphics and story out of the videogames for me.

 

[remember_spinal]

Is the other way around, Sony games are actually pushing the Best gameplay, graphics and story out of the videogames for me.

People say shit like that but praise games like immortality and pentiment which are pretty much the least gamey games out. One is a movie and one is pretty much a book

 

[bender]

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

 

[DenchDeckard]

Tbh, in today's world of triple AAA marvel video games I normally shave a point, to 1.5 off the metacritic/opencritic to sit around where I would rank a game. This seems to serve me well in most cases.

Edge does use more of the scale and I respect that. While I give gow R an 8 so far incan totally see how someone could rate it a 7.

I worry more about the people giving it a 10, don't trust none of those fools.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Isn't famitsu famous for taking money?

Isn’t everyone?
Most of the 10s for any big, highly anticipated game from the big shots of the industry are pretty much a given because they drive hype and clicks, ie, money. Some outlets basically have their hands tied, speak your mind honestly through a not-10 score and there will be repercussions, ie, loss of money.

The music is always the same. Either you give a 10 and you’re a paid shill, or you give a 7 and you’re a troll. The hoopla around aggregate scores, mixed with console bias, has destroyed everyone’s ability to think a score may actually have an unbiased opinion behind it.

Tbh, in today's world of triple AAA marvel video games I normally shave a point, to 1.5 off the metacritic/opencritic to sit around where I would rank a game. This seems to serve me well in most cases.

Edge does use more of the scale and I respect that. While I give gow R an 8 so far incan totally see how someone could rate it a 7.

I worry more about the people giving it a 10, don't trust none of those fools.

Yup, this.
I mean, if a game is a 10 for you, be my guest. But don’t run crying and hiding under Metacritic’s gown if somebody else has a different opinion, that’s the definition of insecurity.

 

[s-bojan]

Ya know. I just kinda agree about the gow score. I have the same gripes. It’s still a great game (Maybe an 8) but, yeah…

I would also give it an 8.
It's funny, as I think it's 7/10 game, but production values and a lot of content don't allow me to score it lower than 8.
Most reviewers probably think the same way.

I was thinking about getting a sub just for the covers lol

I should subscribe. Threads like these are bringing me joy, I should support them.

 

[Markio128]

Well, Edge gave GT7 a 9/10, so I’ll let them off for this one.

 

[kuncol02]

But then again, immortality is literally a movie and no one called it a movie game

It literally has "interactive film" as genre in Wikipedia.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Isn’t everyone?
Most of the 10s for any big, highly anticipated game from the big shots of the industry are pretty much a given because they drive hype and clicks, ie, money. Some outlets basically have their hands tied, speak your mind honestly through a not-10 score and there will be repercussions, ie, loss of money.

The music is always the same. Either you give a 10 and you’re a paid shill, or you give a 7 and you’re a troll. The hoopla around aggregate scores, mixed with console bias, has destroyed everyone’s ability to think a score may actually have an unbiased opinion behind it.



Yup, this.
I mean, if a game is a 10 for you, be my guest. But don’t run crying and hiding under Metacritic’s gown if somebody else has a different opinion, that’s the definition of insecurity.

First say high scores you disagree with are basically money and clicks driven rendering almost every Ragnarok review an hype job from people who fear for their jobs, secondly you say people these days are idiots for saying what you just said, and then you… tell people to not cry about different opinions even though I can taste the tears from my phone.

You forgot to give your “meh/10 and EDGE proves I’m right” score.

 

[Raven117]

Dp

 

[Raven117]

I would also give it an 8.
It's funny, as I think it's 7/10 game, but production values and a lot of content don't allow me to score it lower than 8.
Most reviewers probably think the same way.


I should subscribe. Threads like these are bringing me joy, I should support them.

Man, yeah. That’s exactly it

 

[SirTerry-T]

Edge have always been contrary buggers. They do it to appear "serious" and high brow when the truth is they used to be printed in the same print factory that knocked out loads of British wank mags.

No metallic spot colours or heavy stock paper is going to change that

 

[Mozza]

Fucking Christ, can't they rename the magazine to "Attention Whores Monthly" or something.

They are just doing this to try and be some sort Elitist media, but in the end, they are still just a magazine and a site.... Like dozens along with them.
Only difference is, they fail to acknowledge the fact that they are just that, mainstream media.

Nice printed toilet paper though......

Why?, because they do not agree with you, keep telling yourself that though.

 

[Camreezie]

Id have given Sonic a 7 and Ragnorok a 8.
3 for sonic is taking the piss.

 

[Punished Miku]

Id have given Sonic a 7 and Ragnorok a 8.
3 for sonic is taking the piss.

Thats currently about where I'm at as well.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

Why?, because they do not agree with you, keep telling yourself that though.

Get a group of teachers to review an exam.

If all come to the same grade, but 1 teacher grades it far lower.... Who's the oddball?

EXACTLY

 

[jigglet]

I think reviews should work the same as modern day kids are raised: there's a proper review score, then a participation award of 10/10 which everyone gets regardless.

 

[shiru]

Get a group of teachers to review an exam.

If all come to the same grade, but 1 teacher grades it far lower.... Who's the oddball?

EXACTLY

Reviews are opinions, videogames are not exams where objective grading is required. No one is obliged to give a hyped game a certain score to please fragile fanboys.

 

[pasterpl]

Get a group of teachers to review an exam.

If all come to the same grade, but 1 teacher grades it far lower.... Who's the oddball?

EXACTLY

Stupid comparison

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

Stupid comparison

Nope