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EDGE - "Generation When?" ; Why this gen is staying put for the forseeable future.

I always enjoy EDGE articles, they're smart and thorough. This one (published in E203, recently added to their website) discusses why this generation is staying put for the forseeable future.
Generation when?
By Edge Staff
June 17, 2009


Since the NES, every five years or so a distinct new wave of technology has washed across the industry, bringing with it new power and functions to a market galvanised by the promise of faster, better, more. Change was once always tantalisingly close. Regional differences would see a console newly launched in one territory while its successor was only a gasp from being announced in another, such as Sega’s Master System, which was launched in Europe in September 1987 and followed by the 16bit Mega Drive in Japan just 13 months later.

The current console cycle, which began with Xbox 360 in 2005, shows little sign of ending. Even with E3 looming before us at the time of writing, we have little hope of Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft announcing hardware that represents a generational leap beyond what is sitting in gamers’ living rooms right now. It’s a sentiment that CEO of EA John Riccitiello shares, stating during an investor conference call in May: “Although we are in uncertain times, we continue to believe we will have an extended hardware cycle and we continue to see robust growth with our various direct service businesses.” Same for Activision’s CEO Bobby Kotick, who said in a similar call a couple of days later: “I think that there’s a lot of runway for all of these devices… we don’t really anticipate there are going to be material changes to the console landscape any time soon.” Of the biggest publishers, only Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot has made direct reference to a new generation, saying in January that he expects new consoles in 2011 or 2012 and in May that his company is preparing to support them. Gaming’s highest-profile analyst, Wedbush Morgan Securities’ Michael Pachter, bluntly refutes that, stating in a recent investor guidance email newsletter: “We do not expect the ‘next’ generation to begin before 2013, if at all.”

If Riccitiello, Kotick and Pachter are right, it means that the current generation will be gaming’s primary focus for at least eight years. What does that mean for publishers and developers? What does it mean for manufacturers? And what does it mean for you? After learning about the dynamic resolution trickery that Wipeout HD uses to achieve its form of 1080p, do you still hanker after the true high definition Sony promised in the run-up to PlayStation 3’s launch? Do you fear a yawning chasm between the fidelity of a top-of-the-line PC and your wheezing Xbox 360?

Not that it really matters what you think. As Pachter says: “The public has zero power in this.” In a landscape in which Nintendo did the unthinkable with Wii and found new audiences for videogames with console technology that didn’t even exceed the capacity of the most powerful example of the previous generation, enthusiast gamers are too small a proportion of a newly burgeoning videogame market to count. But that’s assuming you actually want new hardware. You may be perfectly satisfied with firmware updates and add-ons, whether incrementally improving what you originally purchased, as with Sony’s strategy for PS3, or, in the case of Microsoft, making sweeping revisions like last year’s NXE and relying on the power of Xbox Live to serve up continual refreshments. Today’s videogame consoles are no longer static devices, and Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are still investing heavily in developing their existing platforms. As such, they have little to gain by suddenly introducing a new console generation.

Or, conversely, they have a lot to lose by introducing one. The need for each manufacturer to reap profit from the current generation is paramount. Sony’s financial reports in June 2008 put losses incurred by PS3 at over $3 billion and, overall, SCE is still losing money, even if it’s a little less every quarter ($612.4 million in the financial year that ended March 2009) as PS3 software sales rise and production costs become reduced. Microsoft, meanwhile, may have finally brought Xbox’s division, Entertainment and Devices, to profitability in 2007, having lost some $4 billion producing the original Xbox, but today’s financial figures don’t include the estimated $1-billion-plus three-year warranty programme the company initiated as a result of Xbox 360’s ‘red ring of death’ and E74 error problems.

It’s important to note that Nintendo’s position is very different to that of Sony and Microsoft. Cash-rich and powerful with publishers, Nintendo can afford to build a new console. But Pachter is adamant that ‘Wii HD’ will only match the power of PS3 and 360. “They always had the plan to get some traction with Wii and then bring out Wii HD. I don’t know if it’s end 2010 or a year later, but it’s coming,” he tells us. Wii HD would be a canny business move. Publishers and developers are increasingly comfortable releasing games for current-generation technology, having reduced costs and streamlined production processes. And with Nintendo able to build a system that’s straightforward for developers to port their 360 and PS3 games from, and to, it would be an easy sell to ensure that principal game licences like FIFA, Tiger Woods, Call Of Duty, Guitar Hero and GTA appear on it from its earliest days on sale.

Such a console can only delay any wishes from game-makers to move to a new generation. Publishers have put massive investments into producing games for today’s hardware, and the prospect of ramping up production for a new generation, and the starting-from-scratch installed base that would entail – cannot be attractive. Developers are in a similar position. “360 and PS3 are awesome pieces of kit,” says Bizarre Creations’ Martyn Chudley. “Personally, I’m very happy where we are, with good levels of performance, a mature tool chain and engine, and a very stable user experience, particularly with Live on 360. And, obviously, a nice, healthy userbase.”

Having developed games for PlayStation and Dreamcast, and launch games for both Xbox and 360, Chudley has ample experience of what it means to ramp up production for a new generation. “Trying to make a game with no tool chain or engine and not knowing what the new platform is capable of is a complete pain,” he says. “Making games for hardware launch is like trying to build the brakes of a car from leftover bits of old cars, all while you and the car are hurtling towards the edge of a cliff. Speaking for myself, I’d like to stick with the current hardware for at least another two or three rounds of games.”

One platform, however, isn’t a slave to generational change. With new graphics cards and CPUs being released every month, PCs have always provided a technical benchmark for consoles to aspire to. But with the highest-specification PC already running a game like Crysis at fantastical resolutions and with the benefits of DirectX 10-fuelled graphical effects, consoles are already falling significantly behind. In three years, might the kind of people who buy the first consoles of a new generation have gravitated towards PC for their thrills?

Pachter is clear that it’s not relevant, saying: “PC games are such a small slice of the overall business now that it’s almost irrelevant if there’s a quality difference.” But it’s a complex question, not least because of the changes that PC gaming is currently undergoing. PC technology leaders are emphasising other uses for hardware power, seeing GPUs as ideal for such computationally intensive tasks as AI and physics. In relation to the fear that graphics would therefore take a hit, Roy Taylor of Nvidia told us last year: “If we’ve got the baseline graphics at a point where people say that that’s good enough, then no. I think we’re getting to a point where baseline graphics are somewhere around Crysis and that’s pretty damn good. What we need is not more photorealism, but more going on.” Could developers continue to create games that can take advantage of this power and also easily be ported to the current generation of consoles? Might a gulf in power be harmful to the ongoing development of games on PC?

Going back to hardcore console gamers, though, is this notional group actually big enough to make an impression on hardware strategy? “Now we are working with Activision we have to think broader, and the hardcore audience is just too few in numbers,” says Chudley. “To survive as a studio of over 200 people we have to pay the bills, and even selling a million units of a title these days just doesn’t cover the costs – so we have to look beyond the hardcore.” Pachter, however, wonders whether it really exists at all: “Hardcore gamers always want something new, but do they really care whether GTAV plays on a new console or one they’ve already got? Most people would just rather it be a better game – when God Of War II came out, how many people questioned whether it could really be a PS2 game? Every game is going to get better on existing hardware.”

All the while, however, the idea of consoles as they currently exist is being eroded. It might be difficult to imagine forthcoming streaming game services like OnLive, David Perry’s Gaikai and AMD’s Otoy project practically implemented on existing broadband infrastructure, but their potential can’t be ignored. “The concept is logical,” Perry tells us. “We buy the highest end, so the hardware is far more expensive than anybody could normally buy, and finally your gaming experience moves where the world is at. Conceptually, would you rather have a machine sit on your shelf for six to eight years with dust all over it before you can taste the next level? Or would you rather move with the times? Me, I’d rather experience it.”

And then there’s Apple. Pachter admits that he knows no one at the company, but believes that it makes sense for it to build on the success of iPhone and create a living-room computer that plays media (Apple TV style), supports Skype-like internet phone and video calls, and runs applications according to principles set by the App Store, all using similar technology to what Apple is already selling in its MacBooks. It wouldn’t represent a new generation, but it could cause for consoles the reshuffling of attitudes that iPhone has done for handhelds.

The only thing that’s sure right now is that never before has so much money been at stake or the market so large and complex. Quite which party – manufacturers or game producers – has the guiding hand in when the next generation hits is unclear. But for the next three or four years at least, they will rely on the game-buying public to continue supporting what’s already out, allowing them to finally capitalise on the heavy investments they’ve made for it. “The consumer doesn’t change his behaviour until he knows something else is coming out,” says Pachter. If he’s right, we’ll just have to wait until the big players are good and ready, busying ourselves with only makeovers and other enhancements in the meantime.

This is an edited version of an article that originally appeared in E203.
Interesting article, written before E3 but still very relevant.

-EDGE seem to think speculation that Apple will move towards a home-entertainment box is worth consideration.

-The quote "the hardcore audience is just too few in numbers" from Bizzare Creations is very much a cause for concern. Are we an endangered-targeted-demographic?

-Not quite sure what Perry is on about regarding moving-with-the-times and expensive hardware. Can anyone decipher a point?

-Fun Pachter quote of the day, PC gaming is almost irrelevant. In terms of the sheer size and scope of the casual market, I can understand the position. Then again, top of the charts right now is a casual, accessible PC Game. But is this the exception rather than the rule?
 
Having developed games for PlayStation and Dreamcast, and launch games for both Xbox and 360, Chudley has ample experience of what it means to ramp up production for a new generation. “Trying to make a game with no tool chain or engine and not knowing what the new platform is capable of is a complete pain,” he says. “Making games for hardware launch is like trying to build the brakes of a car from leftover bits of old cars, all while you and the car are hurtling towards the edge of a cliff. Speaking for myself, I’d like to stick with the current hardware for at least another two or three rounds of games.”
I like this quote alot. I dig it, I feel him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

And Thegreatdave avatar will give me nightmares, awesome!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_pass_accident

Read this and shiver!!!!!
 

donny2112

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
-Not quite sure what Perry is on about regarding moving-with-the-times and expensive hardware. Can anyone decipher a point?

He's saying that OnLive would let you "keep up with the (graphical) Jones" without having to buy an expensive piece of hardware that sits around for 6-8 years. Instead of being stuck with whatever tech was in the box, you could always be on the graphical leading edge of games.
 

Scrubking

Member
-The quote "the hardcore audience is just too few in numbers" from Bizzare Creations is very much a cause for concern. Are we an endangered-targeted-demographic?

It's obvious to everyone except the "hardcore" who think they are the center of the gaming universe. And some here have been saying this for at least a year and a half.
 

Mrbob

Member
I bought a 120GB hdd for my 360 and a 320GB hdd for my PS3.

I'm getting prepared for a long generation. I will be mad if a new system does come out in a year or two. I'll probably skip it as well. It really took the 360 about a year to become worthwhile, and the PS3 about two so I don't see the incentive of buying another console at launch.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
If some studios ignore the hardcore then fine. Not every game needs to be targeted towards my demographic. But good luck trying to market games directly to the casual.
 

Guled

Member
Scrubking said:
It's obvious to everyone except the "hardcore" who think they are the center of the gaming universe. And some here have been saying this for at least a year and a half.
I'm sorry, the hardcore is the center of the gaming universe. They buy the most games and buy them frequently. You think MW2 will be the best selling game of the year thanks to casuals?
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Wedbush Morgan Securities’ Michael Pachter, bluntly refutes that, stating in a recent investor guidance email newsletter: “We do not expect the ‘next’ generation to begin before 2013, if at all.”

WTF. This shit is getting out of control. I understand everyone wants to make a profit but Jesus I can't live with current graphics for much longer than a couple more years!
 

Hari Seldon

Member
PSGames said:
WTF. This shit is getting out of control. I understand everyone wants to make a profit but Jesus I can't live with current graphics for much longer than a couple more years!

I agree. If MS and Sony think that releasing motion control casual games and no major horsepower updates are going to get them huge profits, they are setting up for an epic fail.

It is going to be very hard to convince a casual that they need to spend another couple hundred bucks to get waggle bowling 2.0.
 

herod

Member
Yeah, I think this has been coming as the big guys want to recoup their ever-increasing investment in tools.

Personally I think it's a good time to switch to PC, as it always does well during the tail of console generations, and if the tail is going to be even longer this time, then good times are surely ahead.
 

Xiaoki

Member
“Now we are working with Activision we have to think broader, and the hardcore audience is just too few in numbers,” says Chudley. “To survive as a studio of over 200 people we have to pay the bills, and even selling a million units of a title these days just doesn’t cover the costs – so we have to look beyond the hardcore.”
And look to stealing money from Blizzard to pay those bills.

But Pachter says “PC games are such a small slice of the overall business now that it’s almost irrelevant".

I mean, WoW alone was only 39% of Activision Blizzard's total net revenue last quarter.
 

Vinci

Danish
Guled said:
I'm sorry, the hardcore is the center of the gaming universe. They buy the most games and buy them frequently. You think MW2 will be the best selling game of the year thanks to casuals?

Um ... yes? FPS games are not hardcore in the slightest. Well, maybe Tribes - but beyond that? No, it gets sales from a very strong mix of both core and casual gamers.
 

JoeFenix

Member
I would be fine with that if we had hardware that could actualy display HD games at 60 fps.

I think this cycle started too early and the gpu's aren't good enough to render what most people expect in terms of graphics at a good framerate. I don't think I can stomach 3-4 more years of sub HD 30 sub 30 fps screen tearing fests.
 

donny2112

Member
Guled said:
You think MW2 will be the best selling game of the year thanks to casuals?

1) I don't think MW2 will be the best-selling game of the year.
2) It will sell millions on the backs of casuals just like pretty much every other million-seller in the U.S.
 

pvpness

Member
Guled said:
I'm sorry, the hardcore is the center of the gaming universe. They buy the most games and buy them frequently. You think MW2 will be the best selling game of the year thanks to casuals?

:lol
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
A very large part of me does not want to see console lifecycles - their primary lifecycle, at least - extend beyond 5/6 years.

I certainly couldn't imagine them doubling to 10/12 years as another "2 or 3 rounds of games" might suggest, as per Bizaare's comment.

I can understand why pubs or devs might like platforms to remain for longer, but do the current range of consoles really amply accomodate their technical ambition? I personally would like us to keep going further and further..not reinventing the software wheel each time any more, but to keep building upon the development tools and engines that are there to try and control costs while continuing to broaden and improve the canvas they're working on and what they can do with it. I'm sure there have to be developers who don't see themselves being satisfied with the current hardware beyond, say, 2012 or so. IMO 2012 will feel about right for new systems...it feels to me like we're around the middle part of the generation right now.

A large part of the progress I want to see is also interface related, and yeah, we can release peripherals without replacing boxes..but I wonder how strong software support might be without embedding it as standard in a platform. That's something you can do with a new platform, and I don't know if it makes sense to limit the opportunity for that to every decade or more.
 

Mogg0

Banned
Sad but true. It sucks that when Nintendo were in the shitter in the N64 and GamCube era, it was the hardcores that helped Nintendo get over the line.

They don't need us anymore and that is patently clear. = (
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
donny2112 said:
1) I don't think MW2 will be the best-selling game of the year.
2) It will sell millions on the backs of casuals just like pretty much every other million-seller in the U.S.

If casuals are buying a FPS like Modern Warfare AND Super Mario Bros AND Wii Fit AND World of Warcraft, why the fuck are we even calling them "casuals" anymore? Why not just call them "gamers"? Should we break up the casuals into different groups too now?

The older I get, the more I find discussion on console gaming just aggravating in general....
 

Danielsan

Member
I'm perfectly cool with playing my 360 and PS3 for the next 4-5 years.
I'm still wowed from a graphical standpoint playing these games and I don't really feel the need to spend another €400 on a console.
 

donny2112

Member
Kintaro said:
If casuals are buying a FPS like Modern Warfare AND Super Mario Bros AND Wii Fit AND World of Warcraft, why ... are we even calling them "casuals" anymore? Why not just call them "gamers"? Should we break up the casuals into different groups too now?

The older I get, the more I find discussion on console gaming just agrrevating in general....

Agreed. "Casual" used to mean that someone just played games for fun and didn't spend hours and hours learning every nuance of a game. You know, someone who just played Super Mario Bros. 3 to beat it and didn't learn every secret Toad House or know about all the whistles.
 

camineet

Banned
2013 is still fine, that's 8 years after Xbox 360.

If we get a leap in graphics performance that allows "CGI-like visuals in realtime", I'll be happy to wait an extra year or two.
 

GCX

Member
Mogg0 said:
Sad but true. It sucks that when Nintendo were in the shitter in the N64 and GamCube era, it was the hardcores that helped Nintendo get over the line.
No. It was Pokemon.
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
All of the consoles look pretty dated to me at this point but the majority of people will not care until they start seeing visuals not possible on current systems. Makes me very happy to play on PC.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Guled said:
I'm sorry, the hardcore is the center of the gaming universe. They buy the most games and buy them frequently. You think MW2 will be the best selling game of the year thanks to casuals?

Uh yeah?
 

Calcaneus

Member
camineet said:
2013 is still fine, that's 8 years after Xbox 360.

If we get a leap in graphics performance that allows "CGI-like visuals in realtime", I'll be happy to wait an extra year or two.
If the next gen started in 2012/2013, it would probably be the first gen where I got the consoles on day one. I'm fine with letting it last that long.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
donny2112 said:
Agreed. "Casual" used to mean that someone just played games for fun and didn't spend hours and hours learning every nuance of a game. You know, someone who just played Super Mario Bros. 3 to beat it and didn't learn every secret Toad House or know about all the whistles.
The term causal didnt exist until the PS1 era.
 
Mama Robotnik said:
-Fun Pachter quote of the day, PC gaming is almost irrelevant. In terms of the sheer size and scope of the casual market, I can understand the position. Then again, top of the charts right now is a casual, accessible PC Game. But is this the exception rather than the rule?

Well not a single console platform generates as much revenue, so yeah, its pretty damn irrelevant.
 

camineet

Banned
Calcaneus said:
If the next gen started in 2012/2013, it would probably be the first gen where I got the consoles on day one. I'm fine with letting it last that long.


Same here.

I wouldn't want to wait longer though, and none of this 'no new next-gen consoles until 2015/2016' crap.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Danielsan said:
I'm perfectly cool with playing my 360 and PS3 for the next 4-5 years.
I'm still wowed from a graphical standpoint playing these games and I don't really feel the need to spend another €400 on a console.

I think that'll level off in the next couple of years.

Moreover, it's really only the top-end devs that are wow-ing now (to me, at least). The bulk - the 'average' - needs a rising tide to raise their boats, if you get what I mean (i.e. they need easy access to more processing power to spend more wastefully to get better results..in other words, a new generation of hardware).
 
TheGreatDave said:
Good. I don't want to buy a new console for a good while.
Amen to this brother.

If we really aren't to expect a "next" generation" ever, I would be SUPREMELY happy. Really, games are already starting to reach uncanny valley with stuff like Milo so I think, power-wise, I like where we are right now though I agree that a Wii HD with the power of a 360/PS3 is pretty much a guarantee and will probably appear as early as Holiday 2011.
 

Aegus

Member
donny2112 said:
Agreed. "Casual" used to mean that someone just played games for fun and didn't spend hours and hours learning every nuance of a game. You know, someone who just played Super Mario Bros. 3 to beat it and didn't learn every secret Toad House or know about all the whistles.

Hardcore used to mean someone who played games so niche and rare that you had to have a handy English - Japanese dictionary just to order the damn thing.

Hardcore people now are last generations casual gamers.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Aegus said:
Hardcore used to mean someone who played games so niche and rare that you had to have a handy English - Japanese dictionary just to order the damn thing.

Hardcore people now are last generations casual gamers.

So you are saying you cant be a hardcore Tetris player?
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
HK-47 said:
So you are saying you cant be a hardcore Tetris player?
hikaru_utada_ds.jpg
 

Calcaneus

Member
Why don't we just split it into three categories: Casual (plays once in a while, wouldn't consider themselves a enthusiast gamer), Regular gamer (plays, well, regularly. Most gamers, fall into here), and Hardcore (Anyone who knows or cares about Mother 3, has Sept 9th of this year marked on the calender, most of us on NeoGAF).
 
Guled said:
I'm sorry, the hardcore is the center of the gaming universe. They buy the most games and buy them frequently. You think MW2 will be the best selling game of the year thanks to casuals?
This is an absolutely ridiculous statement.

While "hardcore" gamer interests may shape certain genres, and even drive the direction of the industry to some extent, it is most certainly fueled by "casual" gamers. And to reiterate a point already made, MW2 will sell the most to these consumers, as the FPS genre is perhaps one of the most "casual" genres. That's not to say that your average gamer will understand and enjoy games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and the like, but there's a reason why the FPS genre is popular and profitable.
 
Xiaoki said:
And look to stealing money from Blizzard to pay those bills.

But Pachter says “PC games are such a small slice of the overall business now that it’s almost irrelevant".

I mean, WoW alone was only 39% of Activision Blizzard's total net revenue last quarter.

WoW is the single biggest PC game in terms of money, nothing else compares even remotely. I'm not quite sure it's the most bleeding edge technology either.

Guled said:
I'm sorry, the hardcore is the center of the gaming universe. They buy the most games and buy them frequently. You think MW2 will be the best selling game of the year thanks to casuals?

Imo the meaningful definition of casual or hardcore would be based on the number and type of games people buy. Someone who buys only big-budget blockbuster games (a few shooters, GTA and FIFA/Madden for example) is different from someone who buys fifteen RPGs every month for every available platform; and also different from someone who only buys the Wii series games and shovelware. I think there is a significant group of people who buy only the big budget blockbuster stuff, and I think that group can be called "casual" in some respects. "Old casual" maybe, and the Wii/DS stuff may be "new casual". But of course it's just a name, the point is that they're a large group, not very much into games except for CoD, GTA, Madden etc. They probably don't even buy Crackdown or KZ2.
 

Dunlop

Member
Awesome, this is the first generation where I own them all so my bases are covered.

Of course it is also because my wife is home with the kids so I do not have the mad spending ability that I used to have for toys.

If this happened before my kids, I would be calling for blood :lol
 
I find all the consternation over an extended life cycle to be absolutely bizarre. We're rapidly reaching the point where the increased investment into stronger hardware to receive better graphical prowess is not worth the returns it gets. It is not in the console makers best interests to make a huge leap like they did from PS2/Xbox -> PS3/360. The only console maker who'd consider doing that would be Nintendo, and that's completely up in the air right now. They might release a console that's somewhat more capable than the current PS3 next generation, but even that's a maybe; it depends how far off the next generation is.

Console developers are just coming into their own, creating strong experiences that exploit every aspect of the hardware, not just the graphical side. This means developing all other areas of a game, which requires extended, dedicated attention to the underlying platform from the console makers. Longer console generations can only be good news for gamers and console makers, especially since console makers usually take losses at the beginning of each new generation and make a profit on each console towards the end. Gamers benefit because the platform is exploited by all parties, and instead of reinvesting in an upgraded console, they can purchase more games.

Why the hate towards an extended life? The current console generation is well equipped to last quite a while. Even the Wii has such capability (although it's much more limited due to storage limitations and company policy).
 

Vinci

Danish
Kintaro said:
If casuals are buying a FPS like Modern Warfare AND Super Mario Bros AND Wii Fit AND World of Warcraft, why the fuck are we even calling them "casuals" anymore? Why not just call them "gamers"? Should we break up the casuals into different groups too now?

Seconded. Signed in triplicate. Christened. Sacrificed to. Whatever the fuck it takes to end this stupid, nonsensical, insecure bullshit - I will do. People have different interests, different likes and dislikes, time limitations, other hobbies, etc. and so on.

We are not fucking special, part of some holy sect that distinguishes us from the pathetic masses.
 

AFreak

Banned
Vinci said:
part of some holy sect that distinguishes us from the pathetic masses.

Actually, we are part of a sect, I can guarantee that in the eyes of a marketer(which i am one) that everyone is part of a group in some form or fashion. Everybody may not think the exact same, but hardcores and casuals do exist. How else would you be able to target a specific group if there were no group to target? People who like the same kinds of things generally think in the same sort of way on most issues and that's why we have the terms casual and hardcore.
 
Vinci said:
Seconded. Signed in triplicate. Christened. Sacrificed to. Whatever the fuck it takes to end this stupid, nonsensical, insecure bullshit - I will do. People have different interests, different likes and dislikes, time limitations, other hobbies, etc. and so on.

We are not fucking special, part of some holy sect that distinguishes us from the pathetic masses.

There are systematic differences between people's game buying/playing habits. This means that people don't buy random games and there are correlations in probabilities of the same person buying/playing different games. People who own GTA are probably more likely to own CoD than a fashion game for the DS for example. This means that there are groups of people with similar buying/playing habits. You could give the title of "hardcore" to one of these groups, it's just a name :) Of course the "elitism" associated with the word is stupid, but it doesn't mean the word can have no meaning.
 

Vinci

Danish
AFreak said:
Actually, we are part of a sect, I can guarantee that in the eyes of a marketer(which i am one) that everyone is part of a group in some form or fashion. Everybody may not think the exact same, but hardcores and casuals do exist. How else would you be able to target a specific group if there were no group to target? People who like the same kinds of things generally think in the same sort of way on most issues and that's why we have the terms casual and hardcore.

So if I we polled people who purchased World of Warcraft or Super Mario Bros., they'd have in their game collections relatively similar titles?
 
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