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[Journey]

When MS announced that Xbox Series X will have a 2.4GB/s SSD, it was assumed that a PCIe 3.0 standard I/O controller was used.

The SSD

The Xbox Series X 1TB SSD is equivalent to a high-end PCIe 3.0 drive, with a throughput of 2.4GB/s which is doubled to 4.8GB/s by compression. Meanwhile the PlayStation 5’s 825GB SSD fully embraces PCIe 4.0 speeds, has a throughput of 5.5GB/s, which could be improved to 8 or 9GB/s with compression. This is faster than anything available on the market today, with PCIe 4.0 SSDs currently topping out at 5GB/s.

When asked if Xbox Series X has the option to upgrade their SSD to a faster one, I was told it was limited by the I/O port inside the box, but this slide shows an I/O up with a x8 PCIe Gen 4.

This next slide shows that both the internal and expandable storage solutions are in fact using PCIe Gen 4 drives but at x2 speed instead of the typical x4 or x8 (Surely to reduce the cost and temperature) which makes sense why it has a throughput of 2.4GB/s

Does this mean Seagate can technically create x4 and even x8 PCIe 4.0 SSDs for Xbox Series X with double or even quadruple the speeds Series X has now?

 

[Three]

When MS announced that Xbox Series X will have a 2.4GB/s SSD, it was assumed that a PCIe 3.0 standard I/O controller was used.




When asked if Xbox Series X has the option to upgrade their SSD to a faster one, I was told it was limited by the I/O port inside the box, but this slide shows an I/O up with a x8 PCIe Gen 4.

This next slide shows that both the internal and expandable storage solutions are in fact using PCIe Gen 4 drives but at x2 speed instead of the typical x4 or x8 (Surely to reduce the cost and temperature) which makes sense why it has a throughput of 2.4GB/s

Does this mean Seagate can technically create x4 and even x8 PCIe 4.0 SSDs for Xbox Series X with double or even quadruple the speeds Series X has now?

The rest are used for other things. Think of other I/O on an SoC. The PCIe x8 is for the entire system.

 

[Aceofspades]

No.

Edit: to put some meat in this post, Xbox will max out at the specified specs (2.4/4.8)
Its like saying my PS4 will act similar to PS5 just because I put a 5.5GB/s on it, it won't.

 

[DarkMage619]

This would be interesting but development teams would have to code for the common denominator wouldn't they? The baseline would most likely be the target.

 

[Journey]

No.

Edit: to put some meat in this post, Xbox will max out at the specified specs (2.4/4.8)
Its like saying my PS4 will act similar to PS5 just because I put a 5.5GB/s on it, it won't.

More meat needed. Why? Limitation or your opinion?

 

[Journey]

This would be interesting but development teams would have to code for the common denominator wouldn't they? The baseline would most likely be the target.

The baseline could be PS5 for multiplatform games. But lets say we're not talking about developing a game around an SSD with specific speeds in mind, but as we've seen with PS4 and X!X improving performance when upgrading to an SSD, wouldn't the XSX benefit from faster load times? I mean even with XSX incredible boost in I/O compared to last gen, elevator or subway load screens are a thing of the past, but if we do see 2 to 3 seconds for the next scene to load, it wouldn't depend on programming to see those scenes transition in a split second.

 

[Walter Matthau]

If you swap in the new drive you might be able to unlock 23% asset streaming, but not the full amount.

 

[Three]

More meat needed. Why? Limitation or your opinion?

It's a x2 Gen 4 slot. What can seagate create? It is a x2 slot Gen 4 instead of the predicted x4 Gen 3.

 

[M1chl]

No, because SSD is soldered on the mainboard and I don't think that they would do great with each other, you would be gimped by the cache, which is probably inside the console anyway.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The rest are used for other things. Think of other I/O on an SoC. The PCIe x8 is for the entire system.

Yeah I was thinking the same. What do you think the other stuff could be? Would they ditch Sata for the UHD just so they could just keep things simple and use only PCIe4 for everything?

 

[RaySoft]

When MS announced that Xbox Series X will have a 2.4GB/s SSD, it was assumed that a PCIe 3.0 standard I/O controller was used.




When asked if Xbox Series X has the option to upgrade their SSD to a faster one, I was told it was limited by the I/O port inside the box, but this slide shows an I/O up with a x8 PCIe Gen 4.

This next slide shows that both the internal and expandable storage solutions are in fact using PCIe Gen 4 drives but at x2 speed instead of the typical x4 or x8 (Surely to reduce the cost and temperature) which makes sense why it has a throughput of 2.4GB/s

Does this mean Seagate can technically create x4 and even x8 PCIe 4.0 SSDs for Xbox Series X with double or even quadruple the speeds Series X has now?

No, it can't since the hardware decompression block inside the APU peaks out at 6GB/s.

 

[Clear]

Doesn't matter really. They can't code on the basis of a performance standard not every owner has the luxury of. PS5's faster throughput is specced as standard, so all exclusives can be engineered to take full benefit.

 

[onQ123]

When MS announced that Xbox Series X will have a 2.4GB/s SSD, it was assumed that a PCIe 3.0 standard I/O controller was used.

No it wasn't it been known that it was a gimped PCIe 4.0 controller

The Xbox Series X budget PCIe 4.0 SSD could be half the speed of the PS5

The Phison contoller can only deliver last-gen speeds, but still far in excess of today's consoles... though maybe not the PS5

www.pcgamesn.com

Xbox Series X SSD could be half the speed of the PS5

https://www.pcgamesn.com/microsoft/xbox-series-x-pcie-4-ssd-pcie-3-speed?amp&__twitter_impression=true The new Microsoft Xbox Series X console, and the new Sony PlayStation 5, are going to be the first wee gaming boxes to ship with solid state drives as their main storage device. That could...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Journey]

No, it can't since the hardware decompression block inside the APU peaks out at 6GB/s.

I heard the decompression block on PS5 peaks at 5.5GB/s

Spoiler

Kidding, I could also make claims with no links all day

 

[Three]

Yeah I was thinking the same. What do you think the other stuff could be? Would they ditch Sata for the UHD just so they could just keep things simple and use only PCIe4 for everything?

USB, stuff like that. Any IO really.
They don't need to necessarily ditch anything it's using SerDes which it shows in the slide. That means that there are effectively 5 x8 Pcie bus sharing that single x8 pcie bus on the SoC.

SerDes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That doesn't mean that the SSD has a x8 Gen 4 though. Both the internal and external SSD have a x2 Gen 4 slot. Which the OP seems to think is a property of the SSD for seagate to create a x4 or x8 drive. Its the bus.

 

[Aceofspades]

More meat needed. Why? Limitation or your opinion?

I meant more meat into my comment, not OP's post

 

[AmuroChan]

Possibly, but it wont' impact how devs make games for the Series X. They have to develop to the baseline specs.

 

[RaySoft]

I heard the decompression block on PS5 peaks at 5.5GB/s

Spoiler

Kidding, I could also make claims with no links all day

That's not correct. It peaks at 22GB/s

Edit: The facts are all over the internet if your interested.

 

[Journey]

No it wasn't it been known that it was a gimped PCIe 4.0 controller

The Xbox Series X budget PCIe 4.0 SSD could be half the speed of the PS5

The Phison contoller can only deliver last-gen speeds, but still far in excess of today's consoles... though maybe not the PS5

www.pcgamesn.com

From your link:

It does need to be stated that this is just the controller that’s been dropped into the Xbox Scarlett prototype box and isn’t necessarily the PCIe 4.0 controller that Microsoft will use in the final retail units.

 

[Journey]

That's not correct. It peaks at 22GB/s

Edit: The facts are all over the internet if your interested.

I am interested. I've never heard of the 6GB/s limitation of the decompression block in Series X, but hey, 6GB is still better than 2.4.

 

[RaySoft]

I am interested. I've never heard of the 6GB/s limitation of the decompression block in Series X, but hey, 6GB is still better than 2.4.

2.4GB/s is the RAW bandwidth.
It's the decompression block that makes it possible to transfer more data through those 2.4GB/s since the data is compressed. The compression rate dictates how much uncompressed data you end up with in RAM each sec.
Compression rate will fluctuate depending on different things, but datatype is one of them. Seems like we can expect around 50% compression on average, making the bandwidth ~4.8GB/s.
But as I said earlier, the decompression block can't decompress faster than 6GB/s so you can't ever go beyond that value.

 

[onQ123]

From your link:

What are you shaking your finger for? even if it's not the same one in the production models it was already established that it was PCIe 4.0 .

How does that one line change anything?

 

[Journey]

2.4GB/s is the RAW bandwidth.
It's the decompression block that makes it possible to transfer more data through those 2.4GB/s since the data is compressed. The compression rate dictates how much uncompressed data you end up with in RAM each sec.
Compression rate will fluctuate depending on different things, but datatype is one of them. Seems like we can expect around 50% compression on average, making the bandwidth ~4.8GB/s.
But as I said earlier, the decompression block can't decompress faster than 6GB/s so you can't ever go beyond that value.

Where have you read that the decompression block in series x maxes out at 6GB? and Isn't 6GB/s > 4.8GB/s?

 

[Craig of War]

Hmm very interesting and since it is confirmed full PCIe 4.0 than i can see people will open it up and make it work reverse engineer it.

 

[Dunnas]

Where have you read that the decompression block in series x maxes out at 6GB? and Isn't 6GB/s > 4.8GB/s?

The very first info released about the series x included that detail.

 

[GODbody]

No, it can't since the hardware decompression block inside the APU peaks out at 6GB/s.

2.4GB/s is the RAW bandwidth.
It's the decompression block that makes it possible to transfer more data through those 2.4GB/s since the data is compressed. The compression rate dictates how much uncompressed data you end up with in RAM each sec.
Compression rate will fluctuate depending on different things, but datatype is one of them. Seems like we can expect around 50% compression on average, making the bandwidth ~4.8GB/s.
But as I said earlier, the decompression block can't decompress faster than 6GB/s so you can't ever go beyond that value.

6 GB/s is not the limit. Digital foundry

Our second component is a high-speed hardware decompression block that can deliver over 6GB/s," reveals Andrew Goossen. "This is a dedicated silicon block that offloads decompression work from the CPU and is matched to the SSD so that decompression is never a bottleneck. The decompression hardware supports Zlib for general data and a new compression [system] called BCPack that is tailored to the GPU textures that typically comprise the vast majority of a game's package size.

James Stanard

 

[RaySoft]

6 GB/s is not the limit. Digital foundry

What do you even mean?

 

[Dunnas]

What do you even mean?

I’m pretty sure he is just posting confirmation to back up what you had said for Journey, but did some weird quoting.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

When MS announced that Xbox Series X will have a 2.4GB/s SSD, it was assumed that a PCIe 3.0 standard I/O controller was used.




When asked if Xbox Series X has the option to upgrade their SSD to a faster one, I was told it was limited by the I/O port inside the box, but this slide shows an I/O up with a x8 PCIe Gen 4.

This next slide shows that both the internal and expandable storage solutions are in fact using PCIe Gen 4 drives but at x2 speed instead of the typical x4 or x8 (Surely to reduce the cost and temperature) which makes sense why it has a throughput of 2.4GB/s

Does this mean Seagate can technically create x4 and even x8 PCIe 4.0 SSDs for Xbox Series X with double or even quadruple the speeds Series X has now?

 

[RaySoft]

I’m pretty sure he is just posting confirmation to back up what you had said for Journey, but did some weird quoting.

He wrote "6GB/s is not the limit" so I'm quite sure those where ment at me.
I just thinks it's kinda funny to despute it with claims of "over 6GB/s" and with that expecting more than maybe +0,3GB/s

'Cause if those 6+GB/s statements are anything to go by, I'm quite certain they would claim "around 7GB/s" if it were in the vicinity of 6.5

 

[Tschumi]

se se se se secret sauuucy sauce yay

PS5 actually has the same feature, interesting to note! though i'm wondering how xsx users will be able to get their hands on custom SSDs and all the custom software that PS5 features to make full use of that speed? hmm~

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Wait so now we care about SSDs?

 

[Pimpbaa]

Wait so now we care about SSDs?

Both consoles having a fast SSD is a big deal. Especially after 2 generations of 5400 rpm HDs.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

2.4GB/s is the RAW bandwidth.
It's the decompression block that makes it possible to transfer more data through those 2.4GB/s since the data is compressed. The compression rate dictates how much uncompressed data you end up with in RAM each sec.
Compression rate will fluctuate depending on different things, but datatype is one of them. Seems like we can expect around 50% compression on average, making the bandwidth ~4.8GB/s.
But as I said earlier, the decompression block can't decompress faster than 6GB/s so you can't ever go beyond that value.

IIRC MS said their numbers were "conservative". They seem to be more in the mind of cutting down amount of data that needs to actually be loaded in, to get granularity extremely low and latency down very low as well, and tech that can be utilized (conditioned?) to know what specific chunks of data it needs in a reduced prefetch window timing. And this is stuff built in throughout the system, mainly the I/O and GPU.

So the literal numbers are most likely what they provide but "effective" performance would be equivalent to much larger numbers of more traditional data I/O setups.

 

[Journey]

Wait so now we care about SSDs?

We always cared about the SSD, just look back before it was known the PS5's would be faster, there were many talks about the increase in IOPS, its a massive increase from the traditional HDD.


Below is what the IOPS performance of an SSD looks like compared to server 15,000 RPM hard drives, now imagine a 5400rpm hdd inside PS4 and X1, this is why developers are excited, but now the focus has shifted from looking at the entire system and the attention has become solely the SSD, so many amazing things like DLSS-like machine learning for improved image reconstruction, but also ML for AI. Dedicated hardware for Ray Tracing, and most importantly, believe it or not, but a MASSIVE upgrade from the Jaguar CPU to a true and powerful Zen 2 CPU, but since both series X and PS5 are basically equal in that department, no one is talking about it except developers (XSX CPU is server class and why it's even faster than PS5's).

I started the thread as a question regarding possible future upgrades for Xbox Series X, but it immediately turns into a comparison and warring, smh.

 

[ZywyPL]

I think the remaining x4 will be used in communication with the southbridge (or whatever the chip is) on the second motherboard.

 

[prinz_valium]

No. 2*2 PCIe4 lanes are used for the internal and external SSD
The other PCIe lanes are used for the southbridge and something else (I don't know)

They can not upgrade that to 2*4 PCIe4 lanes for the Series X.
Also the PS5 is either using more PCIe lanes, or has the southbridge on die

 

[DynamiteCop!]

What would have been really interesting is with adding the storage cartridge they give you the option to run the system drive and cartridge in Raid 0 effectively doubling your speeds.

 

[RaySoft]

We always cared about the SSD, just look back before it was known the PS5's would be faster, there were many talks about the increase in IOPS, its a massive increase from the traditional HDD.


Below is what the IOPS performance of an SSD looks like compared to server 15,000 RPM hard drives, now imagine a 5400rpm hdd inside PS4 and X1, this is why developers are excited, but now the focus has shifted from looking at the entire system and the attention has become solely the SSD, so many amazing things like DLSS-like machine learning for improved image reconstruction, but also ML for AI. Dedicated hardware for Ray Tracing, and most importantly, believe it or not, but a MASSIVE upgrade from the Jaguar CPU to a true and powerful Zen 2 CPU, but since both series X and PS5 are basically equal in that department, no one is talking about it except developers (XSX CPU is server class and why it's even faster than PS5's).

I started the thread as a question regarding possible future upgrades for Xbox Series X, but it immediately turns into a comparison and warring, smh.

Could you please elaborate? I mean, how can it be "server class" when it has even smaller caches than the PC desktop version?

 

[martino]

When MS announced that Xbox Series X will have a 2.4GB/s SSD, it was assumed that a PCIe 3.0 standard I/O controller was used.




When asked if Xbox Series X has the option to upgrade their SSD to a faster one, I was told it was limited by the I/O port inside the box, but this slide shows an I/O up with a x8 PCIe Gen 4.



This next slide shows that both the internal and expandable storage solutions are in fact using PCIe Gen 4 drives but at x2 speed instead of the typical x4 or x8 (Surely to reduce the cost and temperature) which makes sense why it has a throughput of 2.4GB/s






Does this mean Seagate can technically create x4 and even x8 PCIe 4.0 SSDs for Xbox Series X with double or even quadruple the speeds Series X has now?

O onQ123 leave this body !