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Digital Foundry: Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty - DF Tech Review - PS5/Xbox Series Tests + 2.0 Upgrade Breakdown

Neo_game

Member
Surely they have to disable VRS. CP 2077 previously too had slightly higher res on SX but slightly worse performance as well.
 

BigLee74

Member
Same old stooges acting like they don’t know what VRS is every single game. It would appear you can’t teach a blue dog new tricks! 😀

For what it’s worth, outside of the zoomed in screenshots of affected areas, I haven’t noticed its implementation once in any game. It obviously does its job, or they wouldn’t bother. Mind you, just what job it is doing exactly, only the devs can tell you. Certainly appears minimal!
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Agreed. What id give for a patch for ray tracing 60fps or at least 40 :(

The game is not hitting consistent 60 without RT and goes as low as 1080p. If you want a 60 FPS RT mode, be ready for Immortals of Aveum style sub 720p resolutions on PS5/SX.
 

SKYF@ll

Member
『Doom Eternal』で彼らがやったことはすべて、本当にうまくいきました。私はPS5とSXの両方でそれを持っていますが、RTモードのXboxでより良く見えます。解像度は少し高いと思いますが、より重要なのは、sx の異方性フィルタリングが高いことです。さて、VRS のおかげで AF が向上するかどうかは別の問題です。Xbox では反射もより鮮明になります。

しかし、それは VRS が正しく実装されていると思われる 1 つのゲームにすぎません。
私は PS5 と Xbox Series X の両方で Doom Eternal も所有しています。
何を言っているのか理解できません。
実機の画像を添付しましたので、見比べてみてください。
mOzFWde.jpg
q12cq2P.jpg
vU3FM0E.jpg
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
私は PS5 と Xbox Series X の両方で Doom Eternal も所有しています。
何を言っているのか理解できません。
実機の画像を添付しましたので、見比べてみてください。
mOzFWde.jpg
q12cq2P.jpg
vU3FM0E.jpg




That's .. not VRS. That's just a difference in the enemy texture either being higher quality on PS5 or not fully loaded on Xbox.


Whatever they did in Doom Eternal worked really well. I have it on both ps5 and sx and it looks better on xbox in rt mode. I believe the res is a bit higher but more importantly, sx has higher anisotropic filtering. Now, whether the AF is higher because of VRS is another question. Reflections are more clear on Xbox too.

But that's just one game that seems to have implemented VRS correctly.


You're right about the resolution. Per DF: In the 60 FPS RT mode both have ceiling of 1800p but SX is generally higher DRS. And in the 120fps mode PS5 has a ceiling of 1584p and SX has a ceiling of 1800p.

The VRS segment from their video is time stamped. No degredation noted in game play, outside of 400% zoom.

 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
It has vrs on Xbox yet ps5 version still runs better 😂

Crazy considering they are at the forefront of game visuals, pushing new rendering techniques on PC, they are mainly PC devs, and let’s not forget how Sony treated them by delisting the game.

You would think the console with RDNA 1.5 and no VRS would be left in the dust.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
i just got into the game yesterday, and during the military tutorial at the start of the game, my opponent Tposes for like 1 second. Game is till buggy!? wtf
 

SKYF@ll

Member
That's .. not VRS. That's just a difference in the enemy texture either being higher quality on PS5 or not fully loaded on Xbox.





You're right about the resolution. Per DF: In the 60 FPS RT mode both have ceiling of 1800p but SX is generally higher DRS. And in the 120fps mode PS5 has a ceiling of 1584p and SX has a ceiling of 1800p.

The VRS segment from their video is time stamped. No degredation noted in game play, outside of 400% zoom.


The previous image is a cutscene, and the next one is an image of the character stopped moving for about 10 seconds.
It's not a streaming delay, but the textures of the PS5 version of both enemies and backgrounds look like they are of high quality.
You can see the difference even without 400% zoom.
It seems that both we and DF are too concerned with resolution and cannot see things.
sOh46fw.jpg
31uezZO.jpg
VwwMd5u.jpg
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Nah, its there since day one on next gen versions

Its just RT shadows. Reflections use Ultra Quality preset, but no RT.

RT shadows received a bump tho from being only indoors to indoors/outdoors in the last patch (not this one)

Just turned on CP on PS5 and it does look excellent

I actually prefer RT mode with motion blur off. Looks really sharp and the HDR is also fixed!

Wondering if I should start over from scratch or go right into Phantom Liberty
 
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Riky

$MSFT
That's .. not VRS. That's just a difference in the enemy texture either being higher quality on PS5 or not fully loaded on Xbox.





You're right about the resolution. Per DF: In the 60 FPS RT mode both have ceiling of 1800p but SX is generally higher DRS. And in the 120fps mode PS5 has a ceiling of 1584p and SX has a ceiling of 1800p.

The VRS segment from their video is time stamped. No degredation noted in game play, outside of 400% zoom.



Those shots were debunked back on release, fanboys we're using shots from different modes and even Series S. Also VRS is resolved by frame so wouldn't appear in front of you in bright scenes.
Best to stick to professional outlets for comparisons, we've seen the same tricks with Fortnite comparisons on Twitter.
 

DJ12

Member
People can champion VRS all they like, but the reality is it does reduce image quality.

VRS is useful when eye tracking is available, every other time they have no idea where your looking so if you do happen to look where VRS has worked its 'magic' it's going to look shit, no question about it.

Let them have the copium.
 

SKYF@ll

Member
Those shots were debunked back on release, fanboys we're using shots from different modes and even Series S. Also VRS is resolved by frame so wouldn't appear in front of you in bright scenes.
Best to stick to professional outlets for comparisons, we've seen the same tricks with Fortnite comparisons on Twitter.
For reference all my images are of my Xbox Series X and PS5 in RT mode (60fps).
I do not have an Xbox Series S.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Those shots were debunked back on release, fanboys we're using shots from different modes and even Series S. Also VRS is resolved by frame so wouldn't appear in front of you in bright scenes.
Best to stick to professional outlets for comparisons, we've seen the same tricks with Fortnite comparisons on Twitter.
doometernaltest.gif
 
In the city (and not only during the night according to DF :pie_thinking:) the game consistently runs from 5fps to 10fps higher on PS5. Seeing how the XSS actually outperforms XSX I'd say the resolution is too high on XSX as it doesn't seem to be I/O related based on the frame-time stats.

MCHuJYn.jpg
 

Bojji

Member
In the city (and not only during the night according to DF :pie_thinking:) the game consistently runs from 5fps to 10fps higher on PS5. Seeing how the XSS actually outperforms XSX I'd say the resolution is too high on XSX as it doesn't seem to be I/O related based on the frame-time stats.

MCHuJYn.jpg

It's CPU most likely, we have seen many times now that despite being nearly identical PS5 CPU can perform better. It's probably API related.
 
People can champion VRS all they like, but the reality is it does reduce image quality.
If you need to use free frame shots or zoom in 300% not really, because nobody plays games like that. Like I've said time and time again. You invest in a decent new TV with VRR and you get to see the next gen shine. The game looks and runs amazing on the Series X.





Such a shame thanks to a silly media backlash the Red engine is being dumped for Unreal 5. Thanks for nothing DF.
 

Hugare

Member
Just turned on CP on PS5 and it does look excellent

I actually prefer RT mode with motion blur off. Looks really sharp and the HDR is also fixed!

Wondering if I should start over from scratch or go right into Phantom Liberty
That depends.

The beginning of the game is too story heavy, so it sucks on multiple playthroughs.
I've started all over because it's been a while since I experienced it, but everything up to the end of the heist feels like a chore to play.
It's 90% about the eye candy, not so much about gameplay.
And most importantly, it hasnt changed at all since previous patches.

So if you still have it fresh in your mind, I would go directly to Phantom Liberty
 

DJ12

Member
If you need to use free frame shots or zoom in 300% not really, because nobody plays games like that. Like I've said time and time again. You invest in a decent new TV with VRR and you get to see the next gen shine
The thing is you don't need to zoom in at all.

I refused to play dirt 5 on pc until they added an option to turn that shit off.

Fair play to you if you don't notice it, but to say you can only see it at 300% zoom is wrong and shows you don't really understand what it does.

Full 4k output you could argue a clump of 4 pixels all being the same won't be noticeable but when you are 1080-1440 you will definitely see them, it's just a fact you don't need to reply back with more copium.
 

Arioco

Member
I never understood why there was so much hype about VRS, gaining a little performance at the cost of destroying image quality in some parts doesn't make sense.


There was so much hype because VRS was supposed to save GPU resources (that devs could use for something else, like higher resolution and/or performance) by reducing the quality of the shading in parts of the image we wouldn't notice, like really dark areas or things far away in the distance, so it would provide a nice boost with no real trade offs. In practice it's proven to be a bit tricky to implement right. I'm yet to see a game that uses this feature with the results I expected. Doom Eternal would be the closest (as you would expect from ID, those guys are tech geniuses), but still... you can see the VRS artifacts if you really look for it.

In some cases like Dead Space Remake the results in IQ were so poor that devs decided to disable VRS completely on PS5 and Series X with an update. And to top it all once disabled we could compare performance with and without VRS and the performance gains were actually negligible, so it clearly wasn't worth it in this particular game, which is kind of surprising because this game (basically corridors with very dark areas) looked like the ideal scenario to let VRS shine.

So yes, VRS seems to be a bit more difficult to implement (right) than some of us initially expected.
 

FireFly

Member
The thing is you don't need to zoom in at all.

I refused to play dirt 5 on pc until they added an option to turn that shit off.

Fair play to you if you don't notice it, but to say you can only see it at 300% zoom is wrong and shows you don't really understand what it does.

Full 4k output you could argue a clump of 4 pixels all being the same won't be noticeable but when you are 1080-1440 you will definitely see them, it's just a fact you don't need to reply back with more copium.
Was Dirt 5 using Tier 1 or Tier 2 VRS though?
 

Lysandros

Member
Is this recent? Seriously, they are still like this in DF almost 3 years later.


Unable to evolve an inch, blinded by bias, all that they can do is to create narratives used to fuel crude conspiracies. The main reason of those machines performing on par is in plain sight and easy to grasp for those who have eyes and brains: Evenly matched hardware. Such a painful truth to digest isn't it?
 
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Skifi28

Member
There was so much hype because VRS was supposed to save GPU resources (that devs could use for something else, like higher resolution and/or performance) by reducing the quality of the shading in parts of the image we wouldn't notice, like really dark areas or things far away in the distance, so it would provide a nice boost with no real trade offs. In practice it's proven to be a bit tricky to implement right. I'm yet to see a game that uses this feature with the results I expected. Doom Eternal would be the closest (as you would expect from ID, those guys are tech geniuses), but still... you can see the VRS artifacts if you really look for it.

In some cases like Dead Space Remake the results in IQ were so poor that devs decided to disable VRS completely on PS5 and Series X with an update. And to top it all once disabled we could compare performance with and without VRS and the performance gains were actually negligible, so it clearly wasn't worth it in this particular game, which is kind of surprising because this game (basically corridors with very dark areas) looked like the ideal scenario to let VRS shine.

So yes, VRS seems to be a bit more difficult to implement (right) than some of us initially expected.

Seems only Gears 5 is using it in a really good way in its DLC.
 

shamoomoo

Member
In the city (and not only during the night according to DF :pie_thinking:) the game consistently runs from 5fps to 10fps higher on PS5. Seeing how the XSS actually outperforms XSX I'd say the resolution is too high on XSX as it doesn't seem to be I/O related based on the frame-time stats.

MCHuJYn.jpg
It could be I/0 related as NXGamer IGN videos shows the load times and the PS5 loads in 8 seconds and and the Series' consoles are loading in the double digits.

 
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Sethbacca

Member
So far I'm happy I waited to play the game till 2.0. I put in about 4-5 hours when it dropped, and I'm back up to about that point now, but the city just feels so much more alive and the game just feels better. I keep finding myself wanting to go back and play it now, and I wasn't feeling that when I was playing it the first time.
 

JimboJones

Member
Is this recent? Seriously, they are still like this in DF almost 3 years later.


Its a valid question though if you take a step back and take off the tinfoil hat.

Why did MS design it that way, now they are in this position where their is "superior" box is underperforming.
MS really need to be asking those questions internally because they obviously fucked up.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
The Xbox version doesn’t look bad when playing and not zoomed x 400.
But you guys are on a roll so keep it up! 😂
 
The thing is you don't need to zoom in at all.

I refused to play dirt 5 on pc until they added an option to turn that shit off.

Fair play to you if you don't notice it, but to say you can only see it at 300% zoom is wrong and shows you don't really understand what it does.

Full 4k output you could argue a clump of 4 pixels all being the same won't be noticeable but when you are 1080-1440 you will definitely see them, it's just a fact you don't need to reply back with more copium.
Clearly, you do, otherwise, DF wouldn't have to try and prove a point. Still, that's DF world more people play their console games with the TV zoomed in 300% to playing a game with VRR enabled
 

Vergil1992

Member
Hello, it's my first message. My English is basic-medium, I hope I can be understood correctly even if I sound strange.

I think the performance difference between PS5-XSX is being greatly exaggerated, it's a difference of more or less 5 fps in areas with multiple NPCs or driving. Essentially, it's a very similar difference to the one before the patch:


XSX always had a higher DRS and the difference seems to remain very similar. The minimum and maximum resolutions do not tell us all the details. In that VG Tech video it is clear, the minimum and maximum resolutions were the same on PS5/XSX, but however, the average resolutions higher on Xbox:

Kabuki Entrance - PS5 2176x1224, Series X 2304x1296 Near Police Station - PS5: 2435x1370, Series x1544 Streetkid Start - PS5: 2062x1160, Series X: 2062x1160



I think the problem we have here is similar to The Witcher 3. I also had problems maintaining 60fps in areas like Novigrad, especially on XSX, but after a few patches (some even made performance worse on all platforms) the performance was 1 :1 with PS5, but the resolution difference did not change.



My theory is that on the CPU side it is more difficult/problematic to optimize on Xbox Series, probably because of the API. On PC there was a lot of CPU overhead when The Witcher 3 was released. It's also possible that the resolution difference in those scenes is too high for similar performance and the problem seems to be only in Night City, not in its DLC, that the performance of PS5/XSX is very equal (I would like to know the minimum, maximum and average resolutions). Honestly, I don't think the original game code has changed much on an optimization level. It seems that on PS5 the framerate has been improved compared to the old version, but on XSX there does not seem to be an improvement at all. Maybe the PS5 version takes priority and the XSX patches will fix it? We will see it in time.



In the use of VRS, Oliver himself indicates it in the video. That is a screenshot taken in a specific situation and "looking" for the artifacts, in the normal game it is impossible to see. I'm playing the XSX version and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen objects with such a low resolution. I don't think this has much relevance; VRS doesn't improve performance much, and what Oliver has captured probably won't be visible to anyone. VG Tech also pointed out that Cyberpunk used VRS in the previous version of the game, the difference is that it didn't capture any anomalies!




Also as an added detail, loads are significantly faster on PS5/PC than XSX/XSS. Something curious because the previous version, which was essentially identical on a technological level, loaded just as fast (around 9 seconds on all platforms). We could say that the difference is due to the faster PS5/PC SSD, but that would be the case if the loads were faster than before, but on Xbox platforms they have gone from 9 seconds to 17-18 seconds. I think something is wrong here.




At this time, it can be summarized that the XSX has a higher resolution and the PS5 has a more stable framerate. At least according to DF and ElAnalistadeBits. The exact difference in resolutions is very difficult to know. In principle, when you have a higher dynamic resolution it is because you have more power and better framerate (if it works well), if in XSX it works worse despite having higher resolutions, I only see three options:

DSR is not working properly and is higher than it should be on Xbox.

DRS works, but the drops are not on the GPU side.

Everything works as it should, and CD Projekt will address this difference with some update (such as The Witcher 3).



Honestly, I think everything is practically the same as in the previous patch. Higher DRS on Xbox, more stable framerate on PS5 and on XSX it already used VRS from before. The only "new" is that the Xbox Series framerate seems to be the same or worse than before the update, while the PS5 code has received improvements. Even loads are now slower on Xbox. As I said before, it could be argued that they have now made better use of the PS5 SSD, but the thing is that the loads remain exactly the same on PC/PS5, only those on the Xbox platforms have become slower.

I think these are issues that CD Projekt will address.


I hope I don't offend anyone or have my comment be considered "console wars." I have both systems and I don't consider myself a fan of either.
 
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Mr Moose

Member
Hello, it's my first message. My English is basic-medium, I hope I can be understood correctly even if I sound strange.

I think the performance difference between PS5-XSX is being greatly exaggerated, it's a difference of more or less 5 fps in areas with multiple NPCs or driving. Essentially, it's a very similar difference to the one before the patch:


XSX always had a higher DRS and the difference seems to remain very similar. The minimum and maximum resolutions do not tell us all the details. In that VG Tech video it is clear, the minimum and maximum resolutions were the same on PS5/XSX, but however, the average resolutions higher on Xbox:

Kabuki Entrance - PS5 2176x1224, Series X 2304x1296 Near Police Station - PS5: 2435x1370, Series x1544 Streetkid Start - PS5: 2062x1160, Series X: 2062x1160



I think the problem we have here is similar to The Witcher 3. I also had problems maintaining 60fps in areas like Novigrad, especially on XSX, but after a few patches (some even made performance worse on all platforms) the performance was 1 :1 with PS5, but the resolution difference did not change.



My theory is that on the CPU side it is more difficult/problematic to optimize on Xbox Series, probably because of the API. On PC there was a lot of CPU overhead when The Witcher 3 was released. It's also possible that the resolution difference in those scenes is too high for similar performance and the problem seems to be only in Night City, not in its DLC, that the performance of PS5/XSX is very equal (I would like to know the minimum, maximum and average resolutions). Honestly, I don't think the original game code has changed much on an optimization level. It seems that on PS5 the framerate has been improved compared to the old version, but on XSX there does not seem to be an improvement at all. Maybe the PS5 version takes priority and the XSX patches will fix it? We will see it in time.



In the use of VRS, Oliver himself indicates it in the video. That is a screenshot taken in a specific situation and "looking" for the artifacts, in the normal game it is impossible to see. I'm playing the XSX version and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen objects with such a low resolution. I don't think this has much relevance; VRS doesn't improve performance much, and what Oliver has captured probably won't be visible to anyone. VG Tech also pointed out that Cyberpunk used VRS in the previous version of the game, the difference is that it didn't capture any anomalies!




Also as an added detail, loads are significantly faster on PS5/PC than XSX/XSS. Something curious because the previous version, which was essentially identical on a technological level, loaded just as fast (around 9 seconds on all platforms). We could say that the difference is due to the faster PS5/PC SSD, but that would be the case if the loads were faster than before, but on Xbox platforms they have gone from 9 seconds to 17-18 seconds. I think something is wrong here.




At this time, it can be summarized that the XSX has a higher resolution and the PS5 has a more stable framerate. At least according to DF and ElAnalistadeBits. The exact difference in resolutions is very difficult to know. In principle, when you have a higher dynamic resolution it is because you have more power and better framerate (if it works well), if in XSX it works worse despite having higher resolutions, I only see three options:

DSR is not working properly and is higher than it should be on Xbox.

DRS works, but the drops are not on the GPU side.

Everything works as it should, and CD Projekt will address this difference with some update (such as The Witcher 3).


I hope I don't offend anyone or have my comment be considered "console wars." I have both systems and I don't consider myself a fan of either.

That video is a year old.
 
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