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Digital Foundry and the 'Spec - conscious console gamer' was gaming's inevitable future

4th wall breaking here. As console continue to get more and more powerful to PC like performance, it made sense for companies to also try to explain the technology behind them.

With terms like 'ray tracing, SSD, and PS5's liquid metal compound, it made sense that we'd get a collection of folks like the guys behind Digital Foundry to explains these once exclusive PC lexicons.

Gone are the days were marketing a video game console as a computer is looked upon as bad (Home video game console crash of 1980s) or graphic heavy games on custom motherboard were found only in arcades machines ( SEGA's Outrun and NAOMI system boards)
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I like the DF guys. But I'd still love for an Anandtech or some of the better writers from Ars Techica to go balls deep on the inner workings of the consoles when they're out. Why not get the heavy duty traditional PC reviewers to review these increasingly PC like devices. Dr Ian Potato Cutress would be awesome.
 
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I think that a good majority of those console gamers will eventually switch to PC.

When I hear console gamers say things like "Thanks for the 1440p 30fps option but what about a 1080p 60fps mode? GIVE US THE OPTION!" I know another gamer will be getting into PC gaming soon.

If you care about specs, about the technology, about options ... PC gaming is and has always been the place to be.
 

Redlancet

Banned
I think that a good majority of those console gamers will eventually switch to PC.

When I hear console gamers say things like "Thanks for the 1440p 30fps option but what about a 1080p 60fps mode? GIVE US THE OPTION!" I know another gamer will be getting into PC gaming soon.

If you care about specs, about the technology, about options ... PC gaming is and has always been the place to be.
Dont know, pc gaming its expensive and cumbersome for a lot of people, when u have people expanding hours to farm Microsoft rewards points to save five bucks are too expecting the same people buying a rig that can handle 4k 60?
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
You overestimate how many gamers care about this.

Even just going by DF viewers. They only seem to averge in the low hundreds of thousands of views.

There are tens of millions of gamers. The majority do not care.
And then of the people who do care (me), half of them can't even see what they're talking about even when its explained to them (me).
 
Dont know, pc gaming its expensive and cumbersome for a lot of people, when u have people expanding hours to farm Microsoft rewards points to save five bucks are too expecting the same people buying a rig that can handle 4k 60?

Is it really expensive though? I can be, but it doesn't have to.

I suppose the best you can argue is that it costs a bit more upfront. But over time it might be cheaper.

Consoles now have more expensive games, online subscription fees and very expensive expandable storage. If you take all that into account over the course of an entire console gen, a console gamer could easily end up paying more.

PSN is $60/year x 7 years for this gen = $420. Pretty much doubles the price of the console right there. And console games just got even more expensive this gen. You can save a TON of money on STEAM.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
DF has like 1 million subscribers?


Thats not even 1% of XB1/PS4 owners.


So really realistically nobody gives a shit, we are just nerds on the forum who hope we can push our knowledge on other nerds to make us feel/look better. 1800p vs 2160p with checkerboard rendering at 60fps.....if I literally have to pause the game and zoom 200% to tell them apart....fuck me what am i doing with my life?

So few people are buying nextgen consoles because the PS5 has kraken compression and negative pressure driven cooling for its nvme expansion slot.




We are a very very very small percentage of gamers, we just think we matter because we keep talking to each other, go talk to the majority and you realize why FIFA can come out every year and sell millions and millions.
 
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DonMigs85

Member
I like the DF guys. But I'd still love for an Anandtech or some of the better writers from Ars Techica to go balls deep on the inner workings of the consoles when they're out. Why not get the heavy duty traditional PC reviewers to review these increasingly PC like devices.
Yeah, I remember when Anandtech and Extremetech did deep analyses on the PS2, GameCube and Xbox hardware
 
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GiJoint

Member
Is it really expensive though? I can be, but it doesn't have to.

I suppose the best you can argue is that it costs a bit more upfront. But over time it might be cheaper.

Consoles now have more expensive games, online subscription fees and very expensive expandable storage. If you take all that into account over the course of an entire console gen, a console gamer could easily end up paying more.
Yeah 1440p is great for PC, plenty of high refresh rate monitors out there.
 

Redlancet

Banned
Is it really expensive though? I can be, but it doesn't have to.

I suppose the best you can argue is that it costs a bit more upfront. But over time it might be cheaper.

Consoles now have more expensive games, online subscription fees and very expensive expandable storage. If you take all that into account over the course of an entire console gen, a console gamer could easily end up paying more.

PSN is $60/year x 7 years for this gen = $420. Pretty much doubles the price of the console right there. And console games just got even more expensive this gen. You can save a TON of money on STEAM.
if you want 4k 60 fps? its pretty expensive,no matter how your calculations about steam,psn,etc i have seen people using that argument a lot,thats fall flat when you tell somone you need to spend 17000 euros on a system ,and console games got sales at quick as pc nowadays

and dont get me wrong im a pc gamer too,spendend my leg on my system,but thats niche to be honest
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
Good premise OP. I don’t think we’re quite there - as the other posts point out, the size of that market is still small. However, with consoles having things like “Frame Rate” mode and “Image Quality” mode, and with these seemingly being available on so many titles so early into next gen, it’s only a matter of time before preferences, and thus a desire to understand which machine can deliver on your preference, emerge.
Maybe not this gen, but by next gen, I expect console gamers to care about which console can deliver their preferred mode better. This may mean more spec-conscious console gamers.
 
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Dont know, pc gaming its expensive and cumbersome for a lot of people, when u have people expanding hours to farm Microsoft rewards points to save five bucks are too expecting the same people buying a rig that can handle 4k 60?


Its not that expensive. When you factor that a ps5 is 500 bucks, bying a single 1st party game puts you at near 600 bucks. You pay 60 bucks a year just for the privilige our lord sony offers in order to play online. And how much for that sweet 4k tv ? 500 to a thousand on average ? Its more expensive than a good computer and you get infinitely less for the money
 
Their videos on average gets 300k views. There are more than 200 million console gamers. Their content is for very very tiny minority of enthusiast .
 
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DJT123

Member
I've definitely noticed a constant need for affirmation from platform holders, MS or Sony, by console gamers. They're looking for the type of flexible guarantees that Microsoft & Sony aren't in any position to offer them.

the biggest problem with PC gaming options is that 30fps with everything maxed is NOT an option.. 30fps feels so much worse on PC
That's a myth. If it did, I'd fix it fast with various sync options or a decent framelimiter.
 
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Dibils2k

Member
I think that a good majority of those console gamers will eventually switch to PC.

When I hear console gamers say things like "Thanks for the 1440p 30fps option but what about a 1080p 60fps mode? GIVE US THE OPTION!" I know another gamer will be getting into PC gaming soon.

If you care about specs, about the technology, about options ... PC gaming is and has always been the place to be.
the biggest problem with PC gaming options is that 30fps with everything maxed is NOT an option.. 30fps feels so much worse on PC
 
There are like 200 million current gen console owners out there. Digital Foundry videos get a few hundred thousand views at best. The vast majority of console gamers couldn't care less.

the biggest problem with PC gaming options is that 30fps with everything maxed is NOT an option.. 30fps feels so much worse on PC
In my experience at least, that's almost entirely due to the difference in controller responsiveness. Destiny 2 locked at 30 FPS feels like crap if you're using a mouse and keyboard, but it feels more or less like the console version if you're using a controller.
 
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anothertech

Member
STFU about the niche market.

DF does gods work on this industry and thank the gaming Lord's for them.

Yes, I'd be interested for more outlets of that type of content. But DF is the current benchmark for comparisons and teardowns, so thank God for them.

Bunch of ingrates lol
 

Lethal01

Member
I think that a good majority of those console gamers will eventually switch to PC.

When I hear console gamers say things like "Thanks for the 1440p 30fps option but what about a 1080p 60fps mode? GIVE US THE OPTION!" I know another gamer will be getting into PC gaming soon.

If you care about specs, about the technology, about options ... PC gaming is and has always been the place to be.

Nah, that's wrong. I've been saying they should give us these options for 15 years or so, still not a pc gamer.
 

FunkMiller

Member
You overestimate how many gamers care about this.

Even just going by DF viewers. They only seem to averge in the low hundreds of thousands of views.

There are tens of millions of gamers. The majority do not care.

Billions of people play video games. Three billion to be exact, with 300 million as exclusively console gamers.

Sometimes I think the active online gaming community credit ourselves with far more importance in the grand scheme of things than is warranted. We are small part of the overall gaming consumer base across the world.

And all they fucking want to do is play great games. They couldn’t care less about the tech stuff.
 
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Kev Kev

Member
Why do people worship these guys so much?

I feel like they are mostly a bunch of blowhards just tryin to make headlines in the gaming news arena, just like everyone else. Why does it seem like we give them more attention when they are doing there “tech/graphics breakdowns” or whatever

(the last part is an actual question, do they have people and/or tools that makes them better?)

EDIT: honestly the whole post isn’t me being snarky, I’m legit confused as to why people love these guys? I see digital foundry pop up on gaf several times per week, and usually a couple of those are whole ass topics
 
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DJT123

Member
There are like 200 million current gen console owners out there. Digital Foundry videos get a few hundred thousand views at best. The vast majority of console gamers couldn't care less.


In my experience at least, that's almost entirely due to the difference in controller responsiveness. Destiny 2 locked at 30 FPS feels like crap if you're using a mouse and keyboard, but it feels more or less like the console version if you're using a controller.
You nailed it. 30 FPS isn't conducive for smooth mouse work.
 
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cireza

Member
Their analysis help people who are into finer details making their decision, and that's a good thing.

Back when I was kid, SEGA consoles always felt better for some reason. I eventually understood that was because SEGA bundled true RGB SCART cables with their consoles, as well as having very clean signal output from their consoles. Also, MegaDrive content was higher resolution than SNES most of the time. Had DF been there back then, I would have understood why it felt better.
 
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CrysisFreak

Banned
DF is way too forgiving when it comes to Sony.
They need to explain that it's an overclocked RDNA1 console with effectively 8TF without hardware RT and a completely unbalanced IO system plus being extremely anti-consumer.


/s
 

JimboJones

Member
might be a myth but that was my experience when i tried to move to PC gaming years ago (early in this gen)

Good thing we don't have to rely on your experience then and we have numbers and facts to back claims like this up. If anything we can put myths like this to rest with sites like digital foundry and with monitoring tools available to even amateurs and professionals these days.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Let’s be real here - the main reason why things like digital foundry exist are fanboy wars. Yes, there are some people that love to see performance of games and more technical details and breakdowns, but the vast majority of it is just so fanboys can scream and shout that their console is better. All you need to do is read the constant “DF is biased to x” comments in every thread where they get mentioned. One week they’re on the MS payroll, then Sony’s, then MS’s again.

Unfortunately the more mainstream games get the worse it gets. People support companies like sports teams now, they couldn’t actually give a shit about anything other than their team “winning”.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Let’s be real here - the main reason why things like digital foundry exist are fanboy wars. Yes, there are some people that love to see performance of games and more technical details and breakdowns, but the vast majority of it is just so fanboys can scream and shout that their console is better. All you need to do is read the constant “DF is biased to x” comments in every thread where they get mentioned. One week they’re on the MS payroll, then Sony’s, then MS’s again.

Unfortunately the more mainstream games get the worse it gets. People support companies like sports teams now, they couldn’t actually give a shit about anything other than their team “winning”.

Yep. A whole online industry has sprung up just to provide 'evidence' for the console wars. The fact that even the biggest site Digital Foundry only secures a few hundred thousand views for their videos, even when the console gaming community is 300 million strong, is testament to the fact that most people just don't give a shit. Which is a very good thing.
 

Aion002

Member
Ehhh... There are people who really cares about this stuff, but I think that they are the minority, the majority of gamers only care about games and the price...

And obviously there's the warriors and trolls, that turns every little thing into ammunition for their crusade...
 

ZywyPL

Banned
More=better, that's the general rule, that's what most average, unconscious/non-tech savvy consumers see, so it's all about the specs sheet on the box and how you market it with buzzwords like 4K, 8K, 60FPS, 120FPS and what's not.

Now, while DF's work doesn't mean much on it's own, with 100k views at best, people do see headlines based on their work like "X game runs better on Y console", "X game hits native 4K only on Y console", "X console is clearly more powerful than Y" etc., so while not even reading the articles that are based on DF and such, let alone watching the comparisons/analysis themselves, it is somewhat building consumer awareness that one console is better than the other, which might have a direct impact on which console will they buy.

We will see how this gen pans out, the previous two were decided almost solely by the price tag, this time around the odds are even, so it'll be the best opportunity to see how/if important specs and performance really are.
 
With terms like 'ray tracing, SSD, and PS5's liquid metal compound, it made sense that we'd get a collection of folks like the guys behind Digital Foundry to explains these once exclusive PC lexicons.


Are you praising PC or making it look bad?

2 out of 3 techs are console Fortes. Discounting non optimised SATA SSDs till used now.
 

Dibils2k

Member
Yep. A whole online industry has sprung up just to provide 'evidence' for the console wars. The fact that even the biggest site Digital Foundry only secures a few hundred thousand views for their videos, even when the console gaming community is 300 million strong, is testament to the fact that most people just don't give a shit. Which is a very good thing.
what nonsense, is fanboyism part of it? sure, but everything is nowadays

it serves a bigger purpose, i love knowing what i am getting in terms of performance and visuals for a game... it has for sure made devs more conscious of better performance, it helps deciding which version to get if you have multiple devices, it helps not buying games when you see how low effort something was (Mafia 2 being most recent example)

only people who hate their work are fanboys that are on the losing side of the comparison
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Digital Foundry started with a sponsored cash injection by Microsoft when they saw an opening to leverage multi platform comparisons between 360 and PS3, which was a brilliant chess move by the green team to kill perception that PS3 was the more powerful system.

The channel feeds of console wars, and anyone who believes their act of being "anti console war" are suckers and marks. Their more technical videos are worthless in terms of clicks.
 
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Portugeezer

Member
The gap between enthusiast gamer knowledge and casual gamer knowledge is closing (bound to happen as we get more and more technologically savvy generations), but enthusiasts and casuals are still different. DF makes videos are for enthusiasts, who want to know about these small differences; we've always existed.

Casual gamer understands buzzwords like 4k, "most powerful console", etc, but they won't necessarily care whether it is upscaled, whether full 12Tflops are being fully utilised, etc. Does it play Madden, FIFA, GTA, COD? Well OK then.
 
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Edgelord79

Gold Member
Billions of people play video games. Three billion to be exact, with 300 million as exclusively console gamers.

Sometimes I think the active online gaming community credit ourselves with far more importance in the grand scheme of things than is warranted. We are small part of the overall gaming consumer base across the world.

And all they fucking want to do is play great games. They couldn’t care less about the tech stuff.

I can't upvote this enough. As with most things, the loudest on the internet are usually the minority.

PC's are initially more expensive to get into. They come with a learning curve. Windows 10 updates consistently break things. Nvidia drivers have been documented to be a nightmare for lots of people. HDR is just terrible on Windows 10. I've had issues on an LG B7, a Nanocell and a TCL hooked up to a PC. I now only stick to my monitors for PC

You can't just get a video card to play. You need RAM, CPU, motherboard, PSU, etc... It can be daunting for many. Desktop gaming PC's also take up space in increasingly space-deprived homes. Young adults are living with their parents longer and maybe the grandparents are also living there. At that point a console makes more sense.

Then there are folks who want to sit in front of a TV rather than a monitor. They don't want to run an hdmi 40 ft to their TV and deal with keyboard and mouse on their couch while their kids are also using the area. Not do they want to buy another PC for the TV. Some of these are not practical solutions.

I love my PC setup. I'm fortunate to have an exceptional one for work and play, but as I've gotten older with kids, I've come to appreciate consoles more than before.
 

JimboJones

Member
Digital Foundry started with a sponsored cash injection by Microsoft when they saw an opening to leverage multi platform comparisons between 360 and PS3, which was a brilliant chess move by the green team to kill perception that PS3 was the more powerful system.

The channel feeds of console wars, and anyone who believes their act of being "anti console war" are suckers and marks. Their more technical videos are worthless in terms of clicks.
Ahhh but the blue team continues with the constant astroturfing of forums like your self, paid by Sony to spread discontent and rumours of secret back hand deals. It's brilliant!
 
I'm confused; consoles were never marketed as computers because back in the day they weren't really much like computers at all. They had their own custom architectures and silicon, and many magazines talked that stuff up for days. Next Generation in particular, I've been reading their archives online and they go in on the technical capabilities of consoles like the PS1, Saturn, N64, 3DO, Jaguar etc. as chief selling points for both those systems and for selling the magazines (they were more hands-on in this aspect than a lot of other '90s gaming mags).

It was never really considered "bad" to market a console as a PC because for the longest time in gaming history, consoles simply didn't share much anything in common with PC architectures. They weren't x86-based. They didn't use ISAs or video standards like CGA and VGA. They didn't use the same interfaces or OSes, etc. There was simply no means to market consoles as PCs since they didn't share much in common with them. Even the OG Xbox, for as much it had in common with PCs, still diverged a lot from PC architectures to the point you could say it was conceptually similar in ways (use of a built-in HDD, use of (customized) CPU and GPU from PC component manufacturers, etc.), but ultimately wasn't similar to PCs of the time the way next-gen consoles will be today.

Maybe you mean more in terms of systems that tried to bring the idea of a PC in the living room, as multimedia devices, and failed trying? Systems like the Philips CD-i and the 3DO? I think those were marketed more as all-in-one multimedia hubs; by proxy that probably would seem like they were being marketed as PCs because at that time PCs were expanding into all-in-one multimedia hubs themselves, and those kind of consoles sought to bring that to the console gaming space at a lower price (compared to actual PCs). The problem with a lot of those kind of systems though, aside from price, was that they weren't built for the types of gaming experiences popular at the time or would be in the near future. The 3DO fared better than others in this respect, and was probably the most successful of its ilk, but that's probably not saying too much.

Other older systems like the Apple Bandai Pippin had it even worst, and that probably fits best what you're implying in the OP with older systems marketing themselves as PCs. The Pippin was literally a PC in a console shell, but it was a much older design even at its time, and a cut-down one at that. The price was also expensive, and outside of ports of Marathon there was literally nothing of quality for the thing software-wise. Other consoles like the Amiga CD32 were also repurposed older PC designs repackaged into console shells and had little to no work done on them architecture-wise to be a better fit for gaming. Those systems probably created a negative stigma around marketing consoles as PC-like in design BUT they were also extreme fringe cases because the vast majority of game consoles simply weren't being designed like that or marketed like that in the first place!
 

Sethbacca

Member
Not sure how this is a new thing. In the 80s and 90s it was the bit war, 8 Bit, 16 Bit, BLAST PROCESSING, 32 BIT, 64 BIT, 3D SUPER FX chips. Gaming has had marketing buzz attached to power related features for 3 decades. We might be a bit more granular about the details at this point, but it's by no means new. They're just new ways to 1 up the opposition.
 
Why do people worship these guys so much?

I feel like they are mostly a bunch of blowhards just tryin to make headlines in the gaming news arena, just like everyone else. Why does it seem like we give them more attention when they are doing there “tech/graphics breakdowns” or whatever

(the last part is an actual question, do they have people and/or tools that makes them better?)

EDIT: honestly the whole post isn’t me being snarky, I’m legit confused as to why people love these guys? I see digital foundry pop up on gaf several times per week, and usually a couple of those are whole ass topics
DF is way too forgiving when it comes to Sony.
They need to explain that it's an overclocked RDNA1 console with effectively 8TF without hardware RT and a completely unbalanced IO system plus being extremely anti-consumer.


/s
Let’s be real here - the main reason why things like digital foundry exist are fanboy wars. Yes, there are some people that love to see performance of games and more technical details and breakdowns, but the vast majority of it is just so fanboys can scream and shout that their console is better. All you need to do is read the constant “DF is biased to x” comments in every thread where they get mentioned. One week they’re on the MS payroll, then Sony’s, then MS’s again.

Unfortunately the more mainstream games get the worse it gets. People support companies like sports teams now, they couldn’t actually give a shit about anything other than their team “winning”.
Digital Foundry started with a sponsored cash injection by Microsoft when they saw an opening to leverage multi platform comparisons between 360 and PS3, which was a brilliant chess move by the green team to kill perception that PS3 was the more powerful system.

The channel feeds of console wars, and anyone who believes their act of being "anti console war" are suckers and marks. Their more technical videos are worthless in terms of clicks.
Hot damn this site has been dickriding the shit out of digital shills lately.

I find it funny how we have people on here who complain about the appeal of DF saying they are biased toward Sony or Microsoft whenever they feel that DF videos point out rational pros and cons in those console hardware design philosophy. Do they console war bait? They might, like any other content creator but I doubt theq
 
I think that a good majority of those console gamers will eventually switch to PC.

When I hear console gamers say things like "Thanks for the 1440p 30fps option but what about a 1080p 60fps mode? GIVE US THE OPTION!" I know another gamer will be getting into PC gaming soon.

If you care about specs, about the technology, about options ... PC gaming is and has always been the place to be.

No way, the mass majority of mainstream users have no patience for pc gaming and all the nonsense that comes along with it. For the average consumer it boils down to

1) which system are my friends on
2) which system has the games I like

Add in the fact you plug it in and you're ready to go and it makes sense why most people won't care about switching to pc.
 

Kev Kev

Member
DF videos point out rational pros and cons in those console hardware design philosophy.
but what makes their word so much more valuable? do they have more experienced people with actual credentials? do they have better tools than everyone else?

why does DF get so much attention? seems like anyone out there could make these analysis videos, but for whatever reason people worship DF. i'm not a fanboy, or a console warrior, or any of that, im simply asking why? what is it that DF has that everyone else doesnt?
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
The Switch is dominating.

The OG PS4 is outselling everything else.

Fortnite, League of Legends, and Minecraft are the most successful games of today.

But specs are the future? Um, no
 
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