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[BigDug13]

I'm slowly soldiering through Inferno with a Witch Doctor at the moment and I think the class is pretty viable on the difficulty, though the range of viable builds doesn't seem to be all that broad. I haven't really played any other class so my actual first-hand knowledge with which to compare is pretty much nil, but from this thread I don't get the impression that a limited number of builds being Inferno-viable is at all limited to the Witch Doctor.

One of the important things to keep in mind about Inferno is that there's a minimum DPS threshold you have to attain to really be able to function because of the time limits on the bosses and elite monsters, so any build that focuses primarily on survivability and sacrifices DPS to attain it is going to hit a nigh-insurmountable wall at the end of Act 1, if not earlier. I learned this firsthand and had to heavily re-configure my build as a result.

The need for DPS makes Vision Quest builds highly attractive, though getting by with Splinters seems pretty possible. The other primary attacks just don't seem to do enough damage to warrant their use. You could probably make do with one of them, but they'd be sub-optimal at best, I think.

Pets decline in usefulness as the difficulties go on, but as of Inferno they pretty much fall off a cliff. The Gargantuan still retains some utility as a distraction and a stunner, but any serious tank functionality he offers begins to dwindle dramatically. Zombie Dogs are a sick joke, frankly. I still use them because I'm mule-headed like that, but I highly recommend that you do not follow my example. Apparently some guy did some testing and discovered that pets benefit from raw armor and resistances, so I'm currently trawling the Auction House to get both of those up as high as I can to see if that improves their lot any. I sincerely doubt it'll make a meaningful difference, but I suppose it's worth a shot.

The non-percentage healing skills get to be pretty useless when you reach Inferno. Hedge Magic just doesn't heal anywhere near enough to cut the mustard come Inferno, and Haunt's healing capabilities are so paltry as to be meaningless. The only healing abilities you have that scale with gear are the Leeching Beasts rune for the Zombie Dogs and the Healing Journey rune for Spirit Walk. Leeching Beasts is useless because Zombie Dogs is useless, and Healing Journey is fantastic because Spirit Walk is the Witch Doctor's single most important skill on Inferno.

That's sort of the long and short of what I've gleaned from Witch Doctoring Inferno so far. It's pretty rough going at times, but the class seems to be able to handle it with at least some semblance of aplomb. I haven't really managed to put together a build I find really genuinely satisfactory, but I've been managing to make somewhat steady progress on the whole.

Thanks for the WD Inferno impressions! Have you played around with spiders with leaping rune at all? I'm in Inferno still and even though it isn't instant damage, having a Zerg of them takes things down pretty quick and isn't a "targeting required" skill.

Dogs are still useful but it's a bitch to keep them alive if I face anything remotely challenging. I think the problem is that they're too willing to rush ahead and get killed. I would love some option to keep them on "passive" with the life sharing rune Or something. They're too aggressive against damaging enemies.

 

[Hazaro]

Loot found today:
Sick chest armor
Sick gloves
Shoulders with 1600 thorn damage
Tal Rasha off hand
Lidless Shield (Legendary)

 

[Jubbly]

Awesome Wizard/WD pants, but half a million on the AH is a bit too much.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

They really seem to be incapable of nerfing properly. Smoke screen didnt need a 33% duration nerf. It just flat out needed a 15 second cooldown or more.

Leave it at 3 with a rune, but make it completely unspammable. This change is dumb because it really hits the effectiveness of the skill hard, mobs dont even stop chasing you until 2 seconds until the screen. They can still 'see you' they just dont attack. Why make it 2 second total and still leave it nearly spammable with such a short cooldown? How is that more effective than just slapping a 20second cooldown on it or something?

It's waaay better now than it would be with a cooldown. You can still be invulnerable for a long time, you just need to use it correctly and make sure you're not being hit during that one second of vulnerability.

 

[Cipherr]

Why are blizzard nerfing classes, shouldn't y'know there be buffs instead

Well nerfs are needed sometime. Its just that the smokescreen one is so horribly thought out. I just cannot imagine why they didn't merely put a 20s cooldown on it or something. Doesn't make sense to me. It needed a nerf, it just needed one that made more sense.

It's waaay better now than it would be with a cooldown. You can still be invulnerable for a long time, you just need to use it correctly and make sure you're not being hit during that one second of vulnerability.

Yeah but the bolded is the problem..... Thats the problem right there that they are trying to fix. This does very little to actually fix it, and horribly hurts those who don't abuse the skill like that. I dont think its good game design for us to have ANY way to be invulnerable for a long time. Thats the problem that needs to be fixed, this doesnt do it.

 

[Hazaro]

Also not good game design to have things one shot you from off screen.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Why are blizzard nerfing classes, shouldn't y'know there be buffs instead

No? Do you want endgame content to be completely trivialized?

 

[Jubbly]

Guy has heart attack and dies after 3-day Diablo III marathon: http://buildstarted.com/2012/05/21/please-dont-let-gaming-consume-your-life/

 

[witchedwiz]

so!
instead of giving more content or anything blizzard decided to make rare the cockblock to avoid ppl realizing how shitty the whole loot system is (rng-god hates everybody)...
ppl realize how to cleaverly use their char build in ways that the blizzard so-called testers didn't conceive (5k mage + armor, chain stun monk, smoke screen paired with discipline regen crit-based build) and instead of proposing an alternative they just nerf it?
dear blizzard, as a diablo player me and a LOT of my friends wanted just diablo 2-style gameplay with new classes, some addition etc..
you took away any sense in going after unique items (they're luckluster), you made the mobs become a joke with EVERY blue pack in nferno being MUCH MUCH MUCH more of a challenge then act bosses (silly diablo!) and then just to say "deal with it" you take away every defensive ability?
so!
there's no taunt in this game, if we meet a mob with
chain, the ability that "root" you on the ground, desacration and extra speed, what am i supposed to do? reset? die again and again?
or shield, molten, desecration, root?
or root, desacration, molten, arcane?
the only "possible" way for some classes, namely dh, monk, wizard,
was to just pop their cd, but given the "spammy" nature of those mob those cd needed to be chained (hence chain smoke screen, perma invinc wizard)..
but that has always been the nature of diablo, heck diablo 2 was full of loophole to kill stuff (baal farming from the ledge old style, all-life-long mefisto metor farm, etc)...
you take away all defensive stuff, and leave as with a clusterfuck where mobs oneshot or bishot you and you have to live with rng of "impossible" attribute combo on rare/elite mobs and the rng of shitty affix on items...
not-so-impressed....

 

[MrKnives]

Why are blizzard nerfing classes, shouldn't y'know there be buffs instead

Why? Isn't Inferno supposed to be hard and a challenge people will enjoy playing for a long time. Not something you breeze through.

Guy has heart attack and dies after 3-day Diablo III marathon: http://buildstarted.com/2012/05/21/please-dont-let-gaming-consume-your-life/

 

[Shadow780]

Guy has heart attack and dies after 3-day Diablo III marathon: http://buildstarted.com/2012/05/21/please-dont-let-gaming-consume-your-life/

WTF, damn that's a shame.

Take some time off every 2 hours ppl.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Fuck!

I had the perfect rare pants on the AH with 120STR 65 VIT and two socket slots for 18.000, and right when I hit buyout it was gone.

Edit: Holy shit. Looking around the AH some more, it seems that those pants would have easily sold for 100K+. Damn you ninja purchasers!

 

[LordCanti]

Why? Isn't Inferno supposed to be hard and a challenge people will enjoy playing for a long time. Not something you breeze through.

Hitting a wall isn't really fun. This is doubly true when they replace your siege tower with a grappling hook after a week.

 

[Trickster]

Well nerfs are needed sometime. Its just that the smokescreen one is so horribly thought out. I just cannot imagine why they didn't merely put a 20s cooldown on it or something. Doesn't make sense to me. It needed a nerf, it just needed one that made more sense.

I don't really see why smoke screen apparently was so good. I never used it personally (vault ftw). But it lasts only 2 seconds and cost 14 discipline. So you can not really use it that often.

From what I gather, the thing that makes it good is that it apparently breaks cc and such? But they're not changing that, so it hardly seems like it matters imo.

 

[LordCanti]

I don't really see why smoke screen apparently was so good. I never used it personally (vault ftw). But it lasts only 2 seconds and cost 14 discipline. So you can not really use it that often.

From what I gather, the thing that makes it good is that it apparently breaks cc and such? But they're not changing that, so it hardly seems like it matters imo.

3 seconds with a rune. 14 discipline to cast, hopefully at least 42 discipline in use by the DH. That's 9 seconds of invulnerability. Then there is an ability (with a 45 second cooldown) to restore all discipline. So 18 seconds of invulnerability basically, before a (at this point) 35-40 second cool down.

It wasn't that OP in practice though, except against regular mobs. It was an escape tool if anything, used to de-aggro mobs. During boss fights, it was useful for going invisible and reviving co-op partners.

Good morning D3GAF!

Wake up to monk nerfs? FUCK YEAH.

Monk nerfs, DH nerfs, Wizard nerfs. It's like they saw people going through Inferno too fast and decided to knee cap them.

 

[Yoshichan]

Good morning D3GAF!

Wake up to monk nerfs? FUCK YEAH.

 

[Hero]

Loot found today:
Sick chest armor
Sick gloves
Shoulders with 1600 thorn damage
Tal Rasha off hand
Lidless Shield (Legendary)

Now that the act 2 chest run is over, what other spots are there? :O

 

[Trickster]

Guy has heart attack and dies after 3-day Diablo III marathon: http://buildstarted.com/2012/05/21/please-dont-let-gaming-consume-your-life/

Maybe I'm just a cold sob. But I don't really have any sympathy for this guy. There's already been plenty of cases similar to this. So you'd have to be a moron to go ahead with this.

 

[eek5]

Force Armor/Energy Armor is either removed from the game or in a completely non-working state.

So, to recap, from Blizzard regarding hotfixes coming tomorrow:

- Monks MoH: Boon is nerfed to cap at 3.6k shield.
- DH's Smoke Screen lasts 1 second, 2 seconds with rune. On a 3 second CD.
- Force/Energy Armor either removed from the game or completely broken.

Oh Blizzard.

As a barb, I welcome you all to Inferno. :lol

 

[Yoshichan]

Guy has heart attack and dies after 3-day Diablo III marathon: http://buildstarted.com/2012/05/21/please-dont-let-gaming-consume-your-life/

ffs... this sucks so much.

 

[Trickster]

3 seconds with a rune. 14 discipline to cast, hopefully at least 42 discipline in use by the DH. That's 9 seconds of invulnerability. Then there is an ability (with a 45 second cooldown) to restore all discipline. So 18 seconds of invulnerability basically, before a (at this point) 35-40 second cool down.

It wasn't that OP in practice though, except against regular mobs. It was an escape tool if anything, used to de-aggro mobs. During boss fights, it was useful for going invisible and reviving co-op partners.

It's still 2 seconds with the rune after the nerf, and it still retain the ability to de-aggro mobs and bosses, allowing for ressing team members.

Just doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

 

[Drkirby]

Does Paralysis apply to the Lightning Hydra as well?

 

[Yoshichan]

So baba buffs... when?

 

[eek5]

So baba buffs... when?

I'd be OK with them just lengthening the enrage timer at this point. I've gotten to the point where I can survive but there are too many packs that I can't kill because I don't have enough time

 

[Wunder]

I return to you DiabloGaf, battered and broken. It has been a tough week for me, and it has resulted in my PC essentially breaking down, and my poor Monk class being nerfed further. I'm not sure what to do anymore, do I keep going and try to complete inferno? What then? I feel entirely lost in the discussion of legendaries and the discussion of OP builds, I don't know where I stand anymore.

I'm not sure what I expected with Diablo 3, maybe I was just disappointed with the boss design - I love the champions and their affixes, the skill systems and the runes. But I just can't imagine playing this for longer than another week or so. Help me D3Gaf!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Awesome Wizard/WD pants, but half a million on the AH is a bit too much.

keep checking back. they shouldn't be more than 40-50k.

You guys weren't joking about the dickishness of the rare enemy combos in Hell:

And yea, that's right next to the entrance, so I got jumped and killed even before I had time to react.

I think I figured these out. They're usually a pack of 4, and only 3 of them are permanently invulnerable. You basically have to try to focus the one "leader" down while being harassed by the other 3. If you can kill the pack leader, they all die. It's bullshit, but that's how it's done.

 

[MrKnives]

Hitting a wall isn't really fun. This is doubly true when they replace your siege tower with a grappling hook after a week.

But this is Diablo You hit a wall in a diffuculty which is supposed to be close to impossible = you go farm more and better gear

 

[Hazaro]

Now that the act 2 chest run is over, what other spots are there? :O

At least 2 more in Act 2.
Not sure on others easily done yet.

 

[eek5]

But this is Diablo You hit a wall in a diffuculty which is supposed to be close to impossible = you go farm more and better gear

Yeah but some of the satisfaction has to come from farming and finally getting that better gear as loot to push you over the top. Right now some classes can't do this at all. My only option right now is to keep farming Act 1 Inferno and selling that gear until I can build up 10 million gold to buy some equipment from Act 4 so I can move on. Farming has the potential to be fun but this is just pure bang your head against a wall grinding which takes the fun out of the game.

 

[RS4-]

At least 2 more in Act 2.
Not sure on others easily done yet.

hints? Pm?

Lol sorry.

 

[dimb]

But this is Diablo You hit a wall in a diffuculty which is supposed to be close to impossible = you go farm more and better gear

Unfortunately the way to farm gear is just farming gold. Not exactly exciting or engaging.

 

[TheExecutive]

Force Armor/Energy Armor is either removed from the game or in a completely non-working state.

So, to recap, from Blizzard regarding hotfixes coming tomorrow:

- Monks MoH: Boon is nerfed to cap at 3.6k shield.
- DH's Smoke Screen lasts 1 second, 2 seconds with rune. On a 3 second CD.
- Force/Energy Armor either removed from the game or completely broken.

Oh Blizzard.

Looks like they are bringing everyone down to a barb level.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I'm curious though, where does the longevity of these games come from?

I haven't played Diablo 1 or 2, but those games were apparently played for years and years.
What is there to do after you beat the game on the hardest level? Get better gear, sure. But for what?

I'm having a blast playing through the difficulties, but once you finally clear inferno, what else is there to do in Diablo 3?

 

[Toki767]

I finally cleared Nightmare. That boss fight was rough on my level 51 Wizard. I had to spend like 100k at the AH just to up my DPS by like 500.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Hey GAF, how much is a reasonable price to pay for a weapon with 950+ damage and a socket?

I'm trying to decide. I'm not constrained by money at this point (somewhere around 1.2 mill), but I don't want to overspend either.

 

[Hazaro]

hints? Pm?

Lol sorry.

Just a hunch from stuff I picked up before. It won't nearly be on the same level of farming as these past 2, but still should be pretty good.

I know they spawn close, but don't know the frequency. Might be too random of placement. I'll find out after this is truly nerfed.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Did you people bought any items from the auction house during normal/inferno? im on inferno right now and i see a lot of people at my level with ridiculous equipment that i can't seem to get from looting.

Yeah but some of the satisfaction has to come from farming and finally getting that better gear as loot to push you over the top. Right now some classes can't do this at all. My only option right now is to keep farming Act 1 Inferno and selling that gear until I can build up 10 million gold to buy some equipment from Act 4 so I can move on. Farming has the potential to be fun but this is just pure bang your head against a wall grinding which takes the fun out of the game.

Sounds like the plot for a south park episode...

 

[TheExecutive]

Unfortunately the way to farm gear is just farming gold. Not exactly exciting or engaging.

You don't have to go to the AH to buy gear though. NOTHING is stopping you from farming the old fashioned way. In fact, if you really enjoyed the farming aspect of the game it would be best to ignore the AH all together would it not?

 

[Tideas]

so are ppl done bitching about always online DRM?

 

[Yoshichan]

D3GAF mumble servers are down?

 

[Realyn]

EU HC Hell servers are so fucked its not funny anymore. 2000ms ping ALL the time yesterday allready, not better today. Great, off to twinking, again.

 

[echoshifting]

So baba buffs... when?

According to bashiok's post a few hours ago, they aren't in the works.

Let me follow up by saying that in general class balance is an ongoing investigation, and by no means do we believe the game is now perfect, but we're also seeing evidence that supports (with a few nerfs to wizard and demon hunter) the monk and barbarian are not as bad off as they seem.

A large part of the monk and barbarian designs are based on survival models that mimic the concept of the class itself. The idea of a monk is that he survives through being agile and difficult to hit, and his healing and survival scales particularly well by focusing on mitigation stats like dodge, resists, and armor. The concept of the barb is that he survives through a huge health pool, and healing himself through damage (%life on hit stats), which is potentially a bit obvious with all the life return skills but can't be overstated.

The game is young, there were some skills that threw things out of whack, and we expect the landscape to settle out a bit more evenly. Or at least change again so we can continue to monitor the impact. Maybe we're wrong, maybe there's no current chance for monk or barbarian to compete with ranged, but our current suspicion is that's incorrect and until we know for sure we're not going to turn any dials.

 

[Hazaro]

D3GAF mumble servers are down?

I'm in it

 

[LordCanti]

It's still 2 seconds with the rune after the nerf, and it still retain the ability to de-aggro mobs and bosses, allowing for ressing team members.

Just doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

It's hard to explain in words. Let's say you hit smoke and a wall goes up behind you (thanks to a co-op partner, you, whatever). Your smoke runs off, and in the cooldown, mortars rain down on you and finish you off before you can get back under smoke cover.

They've made it more difficult where it didn't really need to be. It's not as bad as the Monk debuff, but it's still bad IMO.

 

[Hoo-doo]

You don't have to go to the AH to buy gear though. NOTHING is stopping you from farming the old fashioned way. In fact, if you really enjoyed the farming aspect of the game it would be best to ignore the AH all together would it not?

Arbitrarily gimping your own game while seeing the rest of the community fly through the content with incredible items making millions of gold is not fun. Plain and simple.

 

[Jubbly]

I think I figured these out. They're usually a pack of 4, and only 3 of them are permanently invulnerable. You basically have to try to focus the one "leader" down while being harassed by the other 3. If you can kill the pack leader, they all die. It's bullshit, but that's how it's done.

Yup, Disintegrate works best, but the problem was that they were camped right at the entrance to the level, the cave was super tight, they were Molten and filling the floor with fire, and they were spamming Arcane laser beams of death everywhere. That kind of thing is more acceptable in large open areas, but in a tight cave is pure BS.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

so are ppl done bitching about always online DRM?

Many people are unable to log into the game at all. So, you know, chill with the forum warfare for a bit until that's sorted.

 

[Thrakier]

So did anyone try to force FSAA via nvidia inspector instead of the FXAA? Does it work? How does it perform/look?

 

[Lord Phol]

I'm not sure what I expected with Diablo 3, maybe I was just disappointed with the boss design - I love the champions and their affixes, the skill systems and the runes. But I just can't imagine playing this for longer than another week or so. Help me D3Gaf!

Don't know man, just wait it out and see if it gets better, or try a new class perhaps?
You're kind of the opposite to me though. I think the bosses are fun, but they champions and elites are just cheap and I don't like it that the later difficulties are pretty much balanced around those encounters.
While I agree that the rune stystem is fun I dislike that so many skills and runes become obselete after Nightmare.

 

[KarmaCow]

So have they said anything about the WD? It seems like Vision Quest orientated builds are the only viable option later on but I'm not that far yet to really know.