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Analysis Review DF - The Best 4K TVs For 4K HDR Gaming: 2020 Edition

geordiemp

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To me, that says 'hey, lets put a $300 premium on this because all the gamers will want one'.

..$1500 for a 48in screen is gouging of the worst kind.

Not too sure, I read its harder to make a 4K OELD a bit smaller, and the higher pixel density and picture quality will be outstanding. Sure LG are upping the margin as well.

I currently have a LG C7 55", and even that size is not ideal for COD and fast games even when I set 8 ft away, I often migrate to my Sony 42 inch 10 ms when playing COD - sometimes a big screen is not what you need when you need to see the whole screen and fine detail at the same time......

For some games you need to see all the screen without changing focus, but also need to see detail in any part of that screen. Playing COD on a large screen is much harder unless your 12 ft away, and then you cannot make out detail so well.

I think 48 " will be great and a sweet spot of peripheral view, pixel density and big screen.
 
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X900E is still the best tv on the market. I can’t believe how good a purchase it was.

The 950g/h has way more blooming and worse uniformity and lower contrast.

the Samsung qleds aren’t as acurrate, have worse processing and most importantly have gimped local dimming in game mode.

I actually bought a c9, but it had horizontal lines going through the screen kind of likedampening lines on crt displays. Burn in is a no no for gaming.

LG lcds are so bad it’s hilarious df even mentions them.

waiting for Sony to stop being lazy with their lcds and make a vidrian style mini led Bravia.
 
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Kawika

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No it's not. Well, not yet, anyway.




I am really hoping they patch in 2.1 for the 950G (since I bought that).
 
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I have a Samsung 65Q7DR. It's the Costco version of the Q70R. I never have to worry about burn-in even when playing a game with an on-screen HUD for hundreds of hours. The only thing I wish it had was G-Sync Compatible support, unfortunately it only has FreeSync.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

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Even Rtings.com doesn't recommend a single Sony and puts the OLED on top

Rtings is like DF.
A great source for many things but not fully trustworthy.
Besides last time I checked people have preferences.

Why are we policing OLED again?
Like who gives a fuck?
Does it hurt your feelings that bad that some choose not to want to baby sit there TV's cause of burn in,not want a organic made display, don't like black crush,low abl and low peak brightness?
 
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Jigga117

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Rtings is like DF.
A great source for many things but not fully trustworthy.
Besides last time I checked people have preferences.

Why are we policing OLED again?
Like who gives a fuck?
Does it hurt your feelings that bad that some choose not to want to baby sit there TV's cause of burn in,not want a organic made display, don't like black crush,low abl and low peak brightness?

Clearly you give a fuck you keep responding butt hurt with other opinions and the conversation in general. Your responses reflect that. You were busy talking shit about anything OLED and didn't care what anyone who has direct experience or knowledge about the tvs. We correct you and you come up with some BS. Here you are in this post with more BS about black crush. You say this as the video above contradicts your very misinformed quotes you keep claiming.
 
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Rbk_3

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I see. Would that be a substantial difference? The more I Google the topic the less I understand.

I’m very close to buying the Q90R but I don’t want it missing anything beneficial for next gen.

 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Clearly you give a fuck you keep responding butt hurt with other opinions and the conversation in general. Your responses reflect that. You were busy talking shit about anything OLED and didn't care what anyone who has direct experience or knowledge about the tvs. We correct you and you come up with some BS. Here you are in this post with more BS about black crush. You say this as the video above contradicts your very misinformed quotes you keep claiming.
You quoted me dumbass.
Zzzzzzzz carry on
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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How are they hacks? Numbers are numbers and their site allows you to do the most relevant spec comparisons between models without all the marketing BS getting in the way.
I saw a live shootout they did were the numbers were significantly different than the "reviews"
 
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How are they hacks? Numbers are numbers and their site allows you to do the most relevant spec comparisons between models without all the marketing BS getting in the way.
Their numbers make 0 sense ( in terms of ratings) and don’t factor in nuances like what processing is disabled in different display modes.

here’s them attempting to give a tv higher peak brightness by dropping the tv ffs! Bunch of fools.


Don’t get me wrong, I use their site for certain measurements, but you will be mislead and not get the full picture if you trust rtings.
 

Rentahamster

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Their numbers make 0 sense ( in terms of ratings) and don’t factor in nuances like what processing is disabled in different display modes.
Why not?

You can see the weights they put on all the factors that result in the final rating for each usage case of the TV. They're very transparent about the method.

If you don't like the way they weight things, then just use their tool to sort and filter each TV by the specific specs that are most important to you.

Their site makes it very easy to do multiple objective apples to apples comparisons. It's the best site by far for that information, unless you think their numbers are wrong.
 
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Why not?

You can see the weights they put on all the factors that result in the final rating for each usage case of the TV. They're very transparent about the method.

If you don't like the way they weight things, then just use their tool to sort and filter each TV by the specific specs that are most important to you.

Their site makes it very easy to do multiple objective apples to apples comparisons. It's the best site by far for that information, unless you think their numbers are wrong.
That’s pretty much what I just said. Use their measurements, but their scores and overall sentiment can be thrown in the garbage. And it’s funny you ignored the tv dropping lol.

Said measurements could be fine by anyone if you have the tools and time.
 
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Rentahamster

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That’s pretty much what I just said. Use their measurements, but their scores and overall sentiment can be thrown in the garbage. And it’s funny you ignored the tv dropping lol.

Said measurements could be fine by anyone if you have the tools and time.
And I said they are transparent in telling you how and why they reached those conclusions. Obviously the weigh they weight things is different than yours. That's a difference of priorities, not hackery.

I can't watch the video now. I'll respond to that later. Not ignoring it.
 
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And I said they are transparent in telling you how and why they reached those conclusions. Obviously the weigh they weight things is different than yours. That's a difference of priorities, not hackery.

I can't watch the video now. I'll respond to that later. Not ignoring it.
Think about it like this. For example they recommend oled for it’s perfect black levels.

how then at the same time can you pump up Samsung qleds when their local dimming is basically worthless for games? You get gray blacks and horrible blooming in game mode. I don’t understand how that equals a great gaming display.

I like Vincent from hdtvtest but he’s guilty of this kind of thing as well, (difference being Vincent will give youthe complete picture unlike rtings) and there is frequent shilling across the board for the major brands done by most reviewers. Take their information, but draw your own conclusions is all I’m saying.
 

Bo_Hazem

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I think it's kinda too early, better wait until Black Friday or by October then it'll make more sense. To me I'm waiting for Sony XH90, been pretty happy with color accuracy with DX70 since 2016 for both gaming and photo/video editing so you avoid funny results when viewed elswhere. Not a fan of over saturation or contrast crushing on some other LCD's. And Bravia tend to translate true colors as game devs intended, says Sony, and probably says me :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Overall, most of them are great TV's, you would be happy with any.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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SlaughterX

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Ahh so they added it to the B series via firmware update for free, that's good stuff. Might have to keep an eye out on that 77 B9 as well...
 

Bo_Hazem

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So the X900H is the perfect TV for future proofing

Yes, it's perfect for color accuracy and will reflect all details in game without the gimmicks closed in Samsung. Not perfect blacks but should be good enough without crushing critical details in dark sceneries.

It has HDMI 2.1 chipset, software side will never be a concern. My Sony DX70 was HDR-ready, but needed a firmware update to use it.



So any concerns of not being sure should be given a rest, this could easily be a law suit that would cost Sony money and reputation and they're not amateurs. OLED's are great if you're gonna babysit them, but I'll get XH90 for now and pick a microLED 8K by 2024-2025 when PS5 Pro hits the market. :messenger_winking_tongue:

Note: There are many great TV's, see what cons you can live with and pick what suits your budget. The budget XH80 could make a ridiculous 9-8ms input lag (probably the fastest so far), but with no local dimming for example.
 
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Yes, it's perfect for color accuracy and will reflect all details in game without the gimmicks closed in Samsung. Not perfect blacks but should be good enough without crushing critical details in dark sceneries.

It has HDMI 2.1 chipset, software side will never be a concern. My Sony DX70 was HDR-ready, but needed a firmware update to use it.



So any concerns of not being sure should be given a rest, this could easily be a law suit that would cost Sony money and reputation and they're not amateurs. OLED's are great if you're gonna babysit them, but I'll get XH90 for now and pick a microLED 8K by 2024-2025 when PS5 Pro hits the market. :messenger_winking_tongue:

Note: There are many great TV's, see what cons you can live with and pick what suits your budget. The budget XH80 could make a ridiculous 9-8ms input lag (probably the fastest so far), but with no local dimming for example.
The problem being Sony’s backlight uniformity has gone downhill and combined with the much higher brightness and same number of dimming zones compared to the x900e, blooming and uniformity will just be disappointing. This is already true for the 950h, though 900h reviews aren’t here yet.

I think it’s kind of a shame Sony is prioritizing oled for anything smaller than 85 inches. Z9d was the best lcd ever made for everything except input lag and a pretty bad motion response time which the 900e was great in both areas.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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The problem being Sony’s backlight uniformity has gone downhill and combined with the much higher brightness and same number of dimming zones compared to the x900e, blooming and uniformity will just be disappointing. This is already true for the 950h, though 900h reviews aren’t here yet.

I think it’s kind of a shame Sony is prioritizing oled for anything smaller than 85 inches. Z9d was the best lcd ever made for everything except input lag and a pretty bad motion response time.

Not sure about that. For any product try to see as much reviews and perspectives as possible. Overall, there are many great TV's, I'll pick Sony again as color accuracy is critical to me for PC usage and photo/video editing. I can spend more than 20+ hours with the bars so you can imagine how that will be with OLED's years later.

It all depends on individuals, I think. I would suggest waiting for Black Friday instead of spending now anyway or for 2020 models clearance. You can get C9 or B9 now as well if you can manage with an OLED and all the hassle. So far, I don't remember burn-in issues with newer OLED's, but the stupid AI could ruin the image on bright sceneries to avoid 600-nits.

If you're after a perfect TV, then wait until 2024-2025 when microLED's come.
 
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bender

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After getting burn in on my 2017 OLED (thanks Rocket League), I purchased a X950G this past Black Friday. It's been a really disappointing experience.

+The firmware upgrade that enabled AirPlay
+Great remote
+Don't have to worry about burn-in
+Fairly inexpensive
-Going from a Kuro to OLED and now back to LED is super noticeable in blacks, especially with the limited number of zones.
-Really weird bugs with the television not detecting the input it is on and wanting to shut itself off after the sleep period (rebooting corrects this).
-Syncing with a soundbar is a constant adventure.
-Something about the PS4 wireless, this televisions wireless and my router do not play well together. If I don't disable the wireless on the television, online play on the PS4 is unusable.
-TV speakers are never all that great but these are trash

I've heard OLEDs have improved from a burn in perspective so I may give a 2020 model another shot.
 
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Not sure about that. For any product try to see as much reviews and perspectives as possible. Overall, there are many great TV's, I'll pick Sony again as color accuracy is critical to me for PC usage and photo/video editing. I can spend more than 20+ hours with the bars so you can imagine how that will be with OLED's years later.

It all depends on individuals, I think. I would suggest waiting for Black Friday instead of spending now anyway or for 2020 models clearance. You can get C9 or B9 now as well if you can manage with an OLED and all the hassle. So far, I don't remember burn-in issues with newer OLED's, but the stupid AI could ruin the image on bright sceneries to avoid 600-nits.

If you're after a perfect TV, then wait until 2024-2025 when microLED's come.
Don’t get me wrong I would still get a Sony lcd if I had to buy a new display today. Their processing and accuracy is still the best in the business.

micro led might not even take off ; if someone can make a quantum dot color conversion lcd with all blue leds, or even mini leds it will match micro led in performance at a much lower production cost!

Micro led seems like the perfect technology in some ways (I’m concerned about the seams though) but it is incredibly hard to produce. And also, it still won’t have quite as good of motion as crt and plasma due to it still being sample and hold.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Don’t get me wrong I would still get a Sony lcd if I had to buy a new display today. Their processing and accuracy is still the best in the business.

micro led might not even take off ; if someone can make a quantum dot color conversion lcd with all blue leds, or even mini leds it will match micro led in performance at a much lower production cost!

Micro led seems like the perfect technology in some ways (I’m concerned about the seams though) but it is incredibly hard to produce. And also, it still won’t have quite as good of motion as crt and plasma due to it still being sample and hold.

I think even my current 2016 55" 4K HDR Sony XD70 is good enough for next gen, as most games will still aim for locked 60fps and I'm not into online MP anymore like years back, so if I had to wait for the perfect TV 4-5 years from now I'll still enjoy. I'm just used to buy a new TV with every console/mid-gen, it's 100% not worse than buying a high-end smartphone in a yearly basis. Might go for 65-75" this time, and I sit like 2 meters away :lollipop_tears_of_joy: .
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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The problem being Sony’s backlight uniformity has gone downhill and combined with the much higher brightness and same number of dimming zones compared to the x900e, blooming and uniformity will just be disappointing. This is already true for the 950h, though 900h reviews aren’t here yet.

I think it’s kind of a shame Sony is prioritizing oled for anything smaller than 85 inches. Z9d was the best lcd ever made for everything except input lag and a pretty bad motion response time which the 900e was great in both areas.
Z9D has significantly lower input lag in 4K vs the 900E.
Motion on the 75 inch is also better than the 65 inch version and the 900E.
 

Flowxrz

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It won't be able to do 4k 120hz HDR. 2018 QLEDs also have VRR, I am assuming 2019 have it too. If you don't care about 4k 120hz HDR and you can get this TV at a good price, it will be a good choice for next gen.

Ah, appreciate the explanation.

I do care about those things, I’ve just struggled getting my head around HDMI 2.0 with 2.1 features, full 2.1, HDMI ports that reviewers don’t even know the capability of etc. Then there’s Samsung’s complexities on top of that (which have put me off the TV now - FALD being gimped in game mode mainly).

Looks like I’ll be going with the C9 despite my B6 being a mess and swearing off OLED.
 
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Z9D has significantly lower input lag in 4K vs the 900E.
Motion on the 75 inch is also better than the 65 inch version and the 900E.
In 4K that’s correct, but in 1080p it’s significantly higher. Not of much use for anything but Xbox one x or PC then given that setting 1080p on ps4 pro gives you superior frame rates, no checkerboard artifacts and still down samples from 4K where applicable.

I even have 360 hooked up to my 900e and it looks amazing!

I have not heard about the 75 inch z9d, that would be great if true! But the response time of the 65inch is a frightening 3x higher than the 900e, so I’d love to see that.

Also 75inch is quite mammoth so you’d also need the space. I chose the 900e as the all rounder in 2017 and it has been an absolute champ.
 
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Kagey K

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I used to be scared of Oled because of all the burn in issues and whatever with it, but after buying the C9 I can’t go back.

Either they fixed a bunch of stuff or burn in was overreported on the Internet. Watching in a dark room, brightness isn’t an issue and often blinds me when they point the flashlight at the camera.

Using the HDMI 2.1 features with my XB1X is just an added bonus, and those that want to downplay it, only do it because they haven’t seen the difference.
 
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Until Sony starts taking input lag as seriously as Samsung and LG do, they will never win any comparisons for gaming TV's against those manufacturers. These days even the Chinese brands like TCL, Hisense, Vizio, etc. offer superior input lag to Sony. It's the one thing that Sony will need to take seriously if they want to be taken seriously as gaming TV's. Why Sony, the company that makes Playstation, doesn't seem to take input lag that seriously is a mystery that only vast Japanese conglomerates with many independently moving parts can answer to.

Sony can offer all the superior color quality and processing/upscaling they want, but if they aren't willing to improve their input lag they will not be taken seriously in reviews of gaming TV's.
 
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Until Sony starts taking input lag as seriously as Samsung and LG do, they will never win any comparisons for gaming TV's against those manufacturers. These days even the Chinese brands like TCL, Hisense, Vizio, etc. offer superior input lag to Sony. It's the one thing that Sony will need to take seriously if they want to be taken seriously as gaming TV's. Why Sony, the company that makes Playstation, doesn't seem to take input lag that seriously is a mystery that only vast Japanese conglomerates with many independently moving parts can answer to.

Sony can offer all the superior color quality and processing/upscaling they want, but if they aren't willing to improve their input lag they will not be taken seriously in reviews of gaming TV's.
X1 ultimate chip bravia lcds are around 20ms in input lag on the default game mode which is a negligible difference compared to other brands. Turning off all superfluous processing in the menu makes games feel perceptually instantaneous.

I can clearly tell the difference between the 950g input response and my 900e which is around 30ms in the default game settings in 1080p, which even it feels very responsive.
 
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The reason Sony’s game mode is higher latency to begin with is their local dimming actually WORKS in said mode unlike Samsung qleds. When you consider that, you realize Sony takes lag quite seriously.

Even when the local dimming is in place on Samsung non game modes, it is slower to react to brightness fluctuations and crushes shadow detail.
 
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Rentahamster

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When you consider that, you realize Sony takes lag quite seriously.
Actually, when I consider that, I see that they could have chosen to take game mode seriously and truly disable all non-essential processing, but chose not to.

If they really took lag seriously they would have optimized for it, and let the end user opt in for whatever extra processing he wants at his own choosing.