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Debatably, Silent Hill: Homecoming was the best chance for SH to become a mainstream IP like Resident Evil, but factors+fanbase killed it.

Danjin44

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but here's the thing you need to consider, Silent Hill: Home Coming, it's mechanics, it's plot setup, it's world, it's icons and symbolism, it's action, it's bosses, it's pace, it's exactly what was needed for Silent Hill to take off on consoles.......in spite of the fanbase.
So you are saying people should have accept the mediocrity of Homecoming for sake of series having mass appeal!?

 
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The biggest mistake was to give it to a western derveloper. Japanese and American horror is very different

Silent Hill was based on American horror primarily and was targeted toward the American audience. Not All American horror is random hollywood zombie movies they are just the most popular.

Personally i think homecoming would of been a great game if the combat wasnt shit,
The combat wasn't good, however ironically it was the best combat in the series.

I think it needs to be clearer that those are not worldwide sales. Silent Hill 2 sold over a million copies in it's launch window.

Which was a major drop from the first game, and was targeted toward the American audience. After SH2 worldwide sales would never come close to that high again. wit US taking more of the share each game.

Dead space could of as well if EA were more patient with it. I don't see any reason why it couldn't have been be as successful as resident evil. Oh well🤷‍♂️
Dead Space, which is dead, had a vastly bigger market than 99% of retail horror games over the years so if EA wasn't mismanaging it and was better with the development costs it's likely be a successful running franchise.
 

kiphalfton

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Silent Hill is very different from RE and cannot be compared. I believe it's a series that should have stopped with SH2 even though i loved SH3.

Not every IP needs to have tons of sequels.

That's the problem though, people expect a game series to go on for half a dozen or more games, and when it does and it goes to crap they throw a fit. Look at Halo, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, etc. Those games had a number of good games, and yet it's still not enough for some people, as some of games in each respective series went to crap and you will never hear the end of it. I'm sick of seeing people complain about 343 Halo games, the people complaining about RE4 - RE6 sucking, the people complaining about Final Fantasy X - XV (the non-MMO games) sucking. They need to get over it.
 
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So you are saying people should have accept the mediocrity of Homecoming for sake of series having mass appeal!?

I mean it could have paved the way to Silent Hills RE4, and since it stopped the bleeding sales of the series on consoles...yeah? I mean the fan base had the series injured than killed after SH2 in the first place, they were atrocious, there isn't really enough fans to really care about to bother with being frightened of backlash like say RE was before 4.

Team Silent could come back tomorrow with the best game of the series and it would probably do as good or worse as a lower selling Fatal Frame game.
 
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Silent Hill was based on American horror primarily and was targeted toward the American audience. Not All American horror is random hollywood zombie movies they are just the most popular.


The combat wasn't good, however ironically it was the best combat in the series.



Which was a major drop from the first game, and was targeted toward the American audience. After SH2 worldwide sales would never come close to that high again. wit US taking more of the share each game.


Dead Space, which is dead, had a vastly bigger market than 99% of retail horror games over the years so if EA wasn't mismanaging it and was better with the development costs it's likely be a successful running franchise.
Yeah I pretty sure dead space 2 grew from 1 but it wasn't enough for EA. So they pivoted 3 it into a co-op shooter with micro transactions and that worked out well...

I think if they stayed the course they were going 1 and 2 it could have matched what resident evil 7 and remake 2 did in sales.
 

Sleepwalker

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My unpopular opinion is that Silent Hill failed to modernize itself and therefore met it's end. The same would have happened with RE had it kept its original formula. I didn't enjoy either franchise back then but I love RE nowadays.

P.T worked very well as a demo but I remember at the time thinking that a full game of that would eventually get old quick or be a relatively short experience. It would've probably had cult status amongst the community but I don't think sales would've been amazing. I guess someone at Konami thought the same.
 
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I clearly remember all the horse armor in 3.
I'm rarely bothered by micro transactions they are pretty easy to ignore in most games. Dead space 3 is one of the only games where I felt they negatively impacted the game designs.

I think you had to swap weapon modules or something. I cant remember the details but it was really annoying I stopped playing it soon after lol.

Shame I finished dead space 2 4 times
 

Danjin44

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I mean it could have paved the way to Silent Hills RE4, and since it stopped the bleeding sales of the series on consoles...yeah?
RE4 is actually great game, Homecoming not even close to quality of RE4. Also forcing mass appeal just for sake sales is never good idea, you cant expect every game to do Fortnite or COD numbers.
 
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RE4 is actually great game, Homecoming not even close to quality of RE4. Also forcing mass appeal just for sake sales is never good idea, you cant expect every game to do Fortnite or COD numbers.
SH can't even outsell Bubsy 3D after the second game, I have no diea why people keep acting like SH had anything half as much as RE numbers before the Konami outsourcing, the sales were pretty bad throughout most of the series except the first game, and while a massive drop one could also say the second game did ok worldwide but after that we are in hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands.

I think SH could afford to tell the fans to screw themselves a few times so that the series can actually sell. Homecoming helped Silent Hill on consoles by stopping the painful bleeding and another game with a similar idea, but with less bugs, more polish, and a bgger marketing budget could have reach 1 million or near it setting the stage for growth.

The fanbase of SH is like 10 people in comparison to the pre-RE4 resident evil fans.
 

fart town usa

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I actually think Homecoming is one of the better Silent Hill titles. In terms of OST and atmosphere, the game is frigging terrifying. I've never beat the game but every time I play, the game puts me on edge like few others.
 

PooBone

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I think SH2 on the PS2 was the series' best chance to "go mainstream" and thankfully they did something way, way better than that.
They made a masterpiece.
 

PooBone

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RE did the same but it worked well for it. RE4 was very different from the previous games and many fans hated that. It was well received by other gamers though. With RE5 it went drastically different as an action co-op game but that did it wonders as well. With RE7 it again went in a different direction and many RE4/5/6 fans hated it but the game was still well received and liked. Looks like somehow it works for RE series but not the others.
I didn't realize there were actual fans of RE6, hence the drastic changes in 7.

And I think RE4 worked because it was a good, original Third Person Shooter for a console that had zero good shooters at the time, not because it was a Resident Evil game, though that certainly helped initial sales. The only change in genre we've seen from Silent Hill was that top-down junk on the Vita.
 

kunonabi

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It's so relative, i mean, i find SH4 to be an amazing game by todays standards. Give that game some updated graphics and it would hold really good design wise today, maybe even become a cult hit no matter if it had the Silent Hill name attached.

At the time tho, it was kinda disapointing, but that was on the golden age of horror survival games. There are so many ambitious survival horror games on PS2, pretty crazy looking back since it's such a short generation with so many classics.

Yes, an abysmal inventory system, busted camera, a retarded escort mission for half of the game through repeat environments, and braindead combat is some pretty good design.
 

Keihart

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Yes, an abysmal inventory system, busted camera, a retarded escort mission for half of the game through repeat environments, and braindead combat is some pretty good design.
You are exaggerating, there is no need for it, silent hill been dead for years now.
 

ThatOneGrunt

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I don't know if anyone agrees, but I personally thought Shattered Memories on the Wii was one of the most interesting Silent Hill games. And I was slightly offended by how accurate the psych evaluation was at the end of the game.
 

kunonabi

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You are exaggerating, there is no need for it, silent hill been dead for years now.
Nothing I said was an exaggeration and I could have gone on with all sorts of other issues. The game had a great premise and the best soundtrack in the series but everything else was an utter mess.
 

Stuart360

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Wasnt Homecoming really bad?, and a game that was outsourced to some 3rd party dev and not even made by the SH dev ream?.
I have played the game but its been so long, i remember little about it.
 
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Wasnt Homecoming really bad?, and a game that was outsourced to some 3rd party dev and not even made by the SH dev ream?.
I have played the game but its been so long, i remember little about it.
To he fans yes, but it seems it stopped the sales bleed slightly so I guess it brought in some casuals. Still even with that the sales were stupid low.

Also, as for the outsourcing they were doing that since after the 4th game, so most Silent Hill games you are likely to find in the while are likely outsourced, outside game shops selling the first game. But Konami was doing that for Castlevania as well for a time iirc.
 

fart town usa

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Wasnt Homecoming really bad?, and a game that was outsourced to some 3rd party dev and not even made by the SH dev ream?.
I have played the game but its been so long, i remember little about it.
It's not that bad. It's just that SH diehards are a special breed and are incredibly sensitive about a franchise that was largely overrated from the get go. Yes, I said it. lol

The core gameplay of the SH titles was always subpar, it was the music and atmosphere that made them memorable and worth playing.

Let's see if I can remember the things that Homecoming did wrong;

Not developed by Team Silent, Western Developer, Includes Pyramid Head, doesn't take place in Silent Hill (takes place in a neighboring town), it isn't Silent Hill 2, SH game with a combat system, combat system is worse than flailing around like in previous games, wasn't developed by Team Silent, has a combat system.

I'm sure I missed some.
 

kunonabi

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It's not that bad. It's just that SH diehards are a special breed and are incredibly sensitive about a franchise that was largely overrated from the get go. Yes, I said it. lol

The core gameplay of the SH titles was always subpar, it was the music and atmosphere that made them memorable and worth playing.

Let's see if I can remember the things that Homecoming did wrong;

Not developed by Team Silent, Western Developer, Includes Pyramid Head, doesn't take place in Silent Hill (takes place in a neighboring town), it isn't Silent Hill 2, SH game with a combat system, combat system is worse than flailing around like in previous games, wasn't developed by Team Silent, has a combat system.

I'm sure I missed some.

Nobody cares about it not taking place in Silent Hill. Silent Hill 3 spent a large amount of time outside of Silent Hill and so does pretty much all of 4.

It not being Silent Hill 2 isn't a problem either as 2 was pretty distinct from 1, 3, and 4 already. It's the poor job of copying it like every other western SH game that is.

The Silent Hill games always had a combat system and one that was far more advanced than its contemporaries. Homecoming's problem wasn't that it tried to improve combat but rather that the actual combat was poorly designed and you basically killed every enemy with the same two braindead patterns the whole game. Is this exclusive to Homecoming? No, but when you go out of your way to shit on the previous entries to prop yourself up than you better not fall into the same trap. Add in the awful controls and button layout and you don't really have something that is all enjoyable to play since the combat in Homecoming is the focus. That also means it's held to a higher standard than the previous games where it was usually supplemental which makes that failure even more pronounced.

The game was ugly, completely pedestrian in enemy design(visual and behavior), narrative, atmosphere, performances, puzzle design, and it was just half-baked in its systems in general. Being able to get the UFO ending on your first playthrough is pure amateur hour. The fact that the best the devs could come up with to set the game apart was filling the latter parts of the game with generic human enemies and aping Saw and Hostel is pretty telling.

It absolutely is that bad although still not the worst of the post SH3 entries.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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Do you know what ultimately ends up killing a lot of good or promising franchises?

The attempt to "broaden their reach". See:

F.E.A.R --> F.E.A.R 3
Thief ---> Thief 2014
Mirrors Edge ---> Catalyst
Dead Space ---> Dead Space 3
Countless others

The publishers behind these franchises need to recognise and respect the place that the franchise has in the gaming world. Instead of looking at and chasing the Call of Duty money they should seek to further serve the fan-base that have even put them in a position to be able to make a sequel.

Fanbases don't kill franchises like this, greedy developers and publishers do.

On the other hand, those developers tried to "broaden their reach" because the fanbases of the early games weren't cutting it in terms of revenue.
 
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If there's one thing Homecoming had is combat, yeah it wasn't perfect, but those saying it was worse than any other SH game before it I wonder if your memory is foggy because the SH before Homecoming had terrible combat, I mean wow.
 

Keihart

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Nothing I said was an exaggeration and I could have gone on with all sorts of other issues. The game had a great premise and the best soundtrack in the series but everything else was an utter mess.
You are exaggerating, none of the things you list as bad, are bad. You dont even say why they are bad, just busted or retarded.
 

kunonabi

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You are exaggerating, none of the things you list as bad, are bad. You dont even say why they are bad, just busted or retarded.
Alright

Inventory: The game decides to give you a limited inventory and makes it more restrictive than just about any other of its ilk since bullets and consumables no longer stack in single slots. Consumables isnt that out of the ordinary but the bullets is a major pain. Or least it would be if there wasnt a way around to get it which I'll get to. The system is purely there to force backtracking to the room since the developers couldnt really come with anything else particularly compelling to get you to go back. Thus they just use basic functions to to give it some necessary utility. Although the larger reason is they want you to see the lame hauntings so you can use your candles on the room instead of Eileen. Gotta love how lazy the alternate endings work with them being based of simple candle resource management instead of the more involved steps from Silent Hill 1 and 2.

Speaking of Eileen, she's arguably one of the worst escort missions ever conceived. Micromanaging an ai in horror games is pretty tricky to begin with but SH4 doesnt even attempt to make it work. Giving her a weapon is an actual hindrance and she'll randomly just stop following you or run backwards. So the best course of action ends up being just leaving her somewhere and doing as much of the level solo as you can before going back for her. She'll of course take damage while your away which is why you want to hoard your candles to negate it. I dont think I need to explain why running through the same areas from the first of the half game instead of going to new areas is cheap and lazy do I?

The camera is legitimately broken. In the middle of combat it will just swing behind the walls in completely obstructing your view. Then of course when it does use fixed camera angles it loves to put them in cramped spaces with enemies. This would be fine if the game was still using tank controls but since it doesnt you end up ping ponging from one angle to another eating unnecessary damage.

And as for the combat the primary issue, aside from the camera, is the invincible charge attack which pretty much trivializes all of it. This also serves to undercut the inventory system since instead of collecting ammo your better off just going with a melee weapon.

The game has glaring issues regardless of how dead the franchise is.

The basic structure is a complete misfire too. You have a game about a guy trapped in a room and instead of focusing on isolation, intimate horror, atmosphere, puzzle solving, etc. they make it an action focused title with health bars, a wacky chaser, burping monsters, and haunted wheel chairs. It really should have resembled the mansion portion of Eternal Darkness more than anything else.
 

Keihart

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Alright

Inventory: The game decides to give you a limited inventory and makes it more restrictive than just about any other of its ilk since bullets and consumables no longer stack in single slots. Consumables isnt that out of the ordinary but the bullets is a major pain. Or least it would be if there wasnt a way around to get it which I'll get to. The system is purely there to force backtracking to the room since the developers couldnt really come with anything else particularly compelling to get you to go back. Thus they just use basic functions to to give it some necessary utility. Although the larger reason is they want you to see the lame hauntings so you can use your candles on the room instead of Eileen. Gotta love how lazy the alternate endings work with them being based of simple candle resource management instead of the more involved steps from Silent Hill 1 and 2.

Speaking of Eileen, she's arguably one of the worst escort missions ever conceived. Micromanaging an ai in horror games is pretty tricky to begin with but SH4 doesnt even attempt to make it work. Giving her a weapon is an actual hindrance and she'll randomly just stop following you or run backwards. So the best course of action ends up being just leaving her somewhere and doing as much of the level solo as you can before going back for her. She'll of course take damage while your away which is why you want to hoard your candles to negate it. I dont think I need to explain why running through the same areas from the first of the half game instead of going to new areas is cheap and lazy do I?

The camera is legitimately broken. In the middle of combat it will just swing behind the walls in completely obstructing your view. Then of course when it does use fixed camera angles it loves to put them in cramped spaces with enemies. This would be fine if the game was still using tank controls but since it doesnt you end up ping ponging from one angle to another eating unnecessary damage.

And as for the combat the primary issue, aside from the camera, is the invincible charge attack which pretty much trivializes all of it. This also serves to undercut the inventory system since instead of collecting ammo your better off just going with a melee weapon.

The game has glaring issues regardless of how dead the franchise is.

The basic structure is a complete misfire too. You have a game about a guy trapped in a room and instead of focusing on isolation, intimate horror, atmosphere, puzzle solving, etc. they make it an action focused title with health bars, a wacky chaser, burping monsters, and haunted wheel chairs. It really should have resembled the mansion portion of Eternal Darkness more than anything else.
Never had a problem with the camera although i only played the PS2 version, so maybe it broke later, idk.
You might be right about why the inventory works as it does but i don't really see the problem with it, why is it bad to backtrack if you might introduce new content with it?
The combat it's trivial in previous entries too, at least there was some semblance of attempting to make it more interesting even if they somehow failed to make it perfect, i say perfect because not every player it's gonna discover how to cheese it.

SH4 it's way more competent than most modern survival horror games, i don't see inconvenience in games as bad. The game surely can be improved but it's the not the hot trash fire you try to paint it as.
I have a similar opinion about homecoming tho, there is a lot of good in that game only to be brought down by uninspired visual design and narrative trying to tie in with the movies.
 

Shadowstar39

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I actually liked homecoming. I still to this day don't understand the hate. It had the creepy atmospheric vibe and all. It was now silent hill 2 but it wasn't bad.

I didn't like silent hill 4 the room. I also didn't like downpour after you get to the town (too many enemies everywhere, I like to explore not have to run every second. Silent hill 2 didn't have that there were enimies but a lot of it the game sounds and atmosphere were messing with your head and they weren't there to begin with.

I would love a return to silent hill 2 style. May just need to boot it up and play it now. Only question is get the ps2 and disc out of storage or play the ps3 version and get a controller to work.