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[Thaedolus]

The blood is not on their hands. That’s quite a conflation you made there.

No, the cause probably stems from the disinformation grifters and charlatans out there leading the flock of unvaccinated astray, but as I said, the effect is tens of thousands of their countrymen are dying because of it. Blame who you will, but we don't have over a thousand people dying every day due to people getting the vaccine, it's because people aren't getting vaccinated when it's safe to do so and they're eligible.

And comparing the proposed efforts to compel them to get the vaccine to Nazi Germany is retarded.

 

[Kilau]

That's a good question. I honestly have no idea how they calculated it. I heard the figure on David Pakman. Could be bullshit, because I have no clue how they arrived at that number.

They could have, it’s public record here. Figuring out cause of death for everyone and vaccination status would be a lot trickier. Could just be using demographics.

 

[Rentahamster]

They have looked up the voter registration on dead people or what?

There are surveys that estimate the likelihood of being vaccinated depending on political persuasion. We also know how likely it is to die if one is unvaccinated, and the current split between vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths.

 

[BadBurger]

So postal employees are exempt? Why?

The USPS is considered a quasi-federal agency. They're expected to follow federal rules and all, and receive federal benefits, but Congress controls them, and they do not receive tax dollars for funding. So AFAIK the president can't simply make up new rules for them as they can truly federal agencies.

 

[TheFarter]

Everyone always needs a scapegoat and someone to complain about.

 

[Kilau]

There are surveys that estimate the likelihood of being vaccinated depending on political persuasion. We also know how likely it is to die if one is unvaccinated, and the current split between vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths.

Guess we will find out in time.

 

[Loki]

Biden announces sweeping new COVID-19 vaccine mandates impacting 100 million Americans

In his most forceful pandemic actions and words, President Joe Biden on Thursday ordered sweeping new federal vaccine requirements for as many as 100 million Americans — private-sector employees as…

ktla.com

Oh boy. Here we go.

Absolutely ridiculous and unconstitutional. He should be impeached for this. Hopefully it is swiftly challenged.

 

[Loki]

Keep the mandates coming. If some are so vulgarly stupid that they still refuse safe vaccines even after all we've been through, continuing to place others at risk, even their own children, then force them.

All the fascists coming out to play now. Emboldended by their facist-in-chief's flagrantly illegal moves as of late.

 

[ntropy]

Biden: "The bottom line: we’re going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers."

 

[BadBurger]

Everyone's a nazi and a fascist all of the sudden. Feel like I'm reading memes or angry all caps posts on grandma's Facebook feed.

 

[Loki]

Sorry but requiring vaccination as a condition of employment isn’t quite like pushing slave laborers into a gas chamber

Stop trying to minimize the overreach of the Biden administration here: Effectively removing 50+% of the job market for 120 million unvaxxed people is a bit more than just "requiring it as a condition of employment." You are fundamentally changing the landscape of employment for the entire country.

 

[Loki]

Never in my life have I seen such a grossly disproportionate overreaction to a social problem. Truly frightening how politicians/public health officials, the media, and big business have all aligned on this. You either believe in liberty or you don't. All this talk of "well, these anti-vaxxers weren't persuaded by reason or science, so mandates are the only way" entirely misses the point. You can say that same thing about ANY issue. Who decides reason? Since when was "science" fixed and not provisional?

It honestly shocks me how people can't hear that they sound like fascists. "Well if they would have only listened to reason, we wouldn't have had to force them into injecting something into their own body's that they didn't want!" Read: if they would have listened to your preferred reasoning. And that's the crux of the issue. You have people on one side - most of the people in this thread, actually - who refuse to admit that people can both rationally hold a different opinion, and also are entitled to their own liberty and bodily sovereignty. Especially in the face of a "pandemic" such as this: a pandemic with a .005% IFR for people under 50. A pandemic where 80+% of deaths are those above 75, with other comorbidities. It's all just incredibly shocking to me. My mind boggles daily. Mountains and molehills never had more relevance.

No one will ever convince me that this reaction is warranted. if we're doing all THIS for COVID, what would we be willing to allow for a TRUE pandemic? And mind you, a lot of the vaccination resistance you're seeing is because - contrary to what folks in this thread would have you believe - COVID is pretty much the mildest of all pandemics we could have endured. If COVID was similarly transmissible but had an IFR of 5-10% across ALL cohorts (read: just as many 20 and 30 year olds were dying as 80 year olds), I myself would have already been vaccinated. But COVID is not that disease. And no amount of hand-wringing will change that assessment. In fact, the sheer incongruence of the sociopolitical reaction to COVID makes me question the motives of those pushing these mandates altogether.

 

[Jaysen]

Never in my life have I seen such a grossly disproportionate overreaction to a social problem. Truly frightening how politicians/public health officials, the media, and big business have all aligned on this. You either believe in liberty or you don't. All this talk of "well, these anti-vaxxers weren't persuaded by reason or science, so mandates are the only way" entirely misses the point. You can say that same thing about ANY issue. Who decides reason? Since when was "science" fixed and not provisional?

It honestly shocks me how people can't hear that they sound like fascists. "Well if they would have only listened to reason, we wouldn't have had to force them into injecting something into their own body's that they didn't want!" Read: if they would have listened to your preferred reasoning. And that's the crux of the issue. You have people on one side - most of the people in this thread, actually - who refuse to admit that people can both rationally hold a different opinion, and also are entitled to their own liberty and bodily sovereignty. Especially in the face of a "pandemic" such as this: a pandemic with a .005% IFR for people under 50. A pandemic where 80+% of deaths are those above 75, with other comorbidities. It's all just incredibly shocking to me. My mind boggles daily. Mountains and molehills never had more relevance.

No one will ever convince me that this reaction is warranted. if we're doing all THIS for COVID, what would we be willing to allow for a TRUE pandemic? And mind you, a lot of the vaccination resistance you're seeing is because - contrary to what folks in this thread would have you believe - COVID is pretty much the mildest of all pandemics we could have endured. If COVID was similarly transmissible but had an IFR of 5-10% across ALL cohorts (read: just as many 20 and 30 year olds were dying as 80 year olds), I myself would have already been vaccinated. But COVID is not that disease. And no amount of hand-wringing will change that assessment. In fact, the sheer incongruence of the sociopolitical reaction to COVID makes me question the motives of those pushing these mandates altogether.

Sounds like the horse paste talking. Seek help.

 

[sackings]

This has nothing to do with health. It's a political purge of dissenters from government.

 

[12Goblins]

worth sharing

 

[sinnergy]

Never in my life have I seen such a grossly disproportionate overreaction to a social problem. Truly frightening how politicians/public health officials, the media, and big business have all aligned on this. You either believe in liberty or you don't. All this talk of "well, these anti-vaxxers weren't persuaded by reason or science, so mandates are the only way" entirely misses the point. You can say that same thing about ANY issue. Who decides reason? Since when was "science" fixed and not provisional?

It honestly shocks me how people can't hear that they sound like fascists. "Well if they would have only listened to reason, we wouldn't have had to force them into injecting something into their own body's that they didn't want!" Read: if they would have listened to your preferred reasoning. And that's the crux of the issue. You have people on one side - most of the people in this thread, actually - who refuse to admit that people can both rationally hold a different opinion, and also are entitled to their own liberty and bodily sovereignty. Especially in the face of a "pandemic" such as this: a pandemic with a .005% IFR for people under 50. A pandemic where 80+% of deaths are those above 75, with other comorbidities. It's all just incredibly shocking to me. My mind boggles daily. Mountains and molehills never had more relevance.

No one will ever convince me that this reaction is warranted. if we're doing all THIS for COVID, what would we be willing to allow for a TRUE pandemic? And mind you, a lot of the vaccination resistance you're seeing is because - contrary to what folks in this thread would have you believe - COVID is pretty much the mildest of all pandemics we could have endured. If COVID was similarly transmissible but had an IFR of 5-10% across ALL cohorts (read: just as many 20 and 30 year olds were dying as 80 year olds), I myself would have already been vaccinated. But COVID is not that disease. And no amount of hand-wringing will change that assessment. In fact, the sheer incongruence of the sociopolitical reaction to COVID makes me question the motives of those pushing these mandates altogether.

So this is not a true pandemic? Come on man .. it’s the first in over 100 years ..

 

[sinnergy]

All the fascists coming out to play now. Emboldended by their facist-in-chief's flagrantly illegal moves as of late.

You are being sarcastic right ? Comparing it to a fascist regime… in the 40s or in other countries, some countries seriously have no freedom at all ..

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Sounds like the horse paste talking. Seek help.

You're such a disingenuous ass hat. You never attempt to engage with any conversation outside of your line of thinking except for throwing out one liner insults that I'm sure to yourself you find to be hilarious.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Everyone's a nazi and a fascist all of the sudden. Feel like I'm reading memes or angry all caps posts on grandma's Facebook feed.

If this timeline were happening under a different presidents tenure the same people cheerleading this now would be marching on the White House pitchforks in hand asking for his impeachment. To pretend to otherwise is asinine.

 

[segasonic]

 

[12Goblins]

So this is not a true pandemic? Come on man .. it’s the first in over 100 years ..

these people are prepared to die before admitting they have been duped

 

[segasonic]

 

[betrayal]

Some here are truly the epitome of the stupidity of today's society.

There are a few individual fates of people mentioned, who were apparently cured by Ivermectin. Others mention some individuals who are against vaccination and are now on a ventilator.

And in the end, both sides are so incredibly stupid that they use exactly these examples to support their position. It doesn't get much stupider than this - thanks to social media and the lack of independent thinking.

Anyone who is fat, old and/or has severe pre-existing conditions, get the hell vaccinated. In the USA, this already affects 70%+. But you also have to look at the other side of the coin. For almost everyone who does not belong to the groups just mentioned, it does not matter how they behave or whether they get vaccinated or not. In the end, nothing will happen to most of them, except that they will gain a natural immunity.
What the Biden/Harris administration is now asking for is a political failure, because no matter how you spin it, in the end it leads to the division of a society that is already divided. You can already see it here on the forum and in the streets and it's sad to see people drift apart over something that none of these people are to blame for. Of course you should never stop discussing, but when I see posts like "I don't care, let these fuckers die!" or "If he wasn't fat, he wouldn't be in the ICU!", I'm not surprised that humanity is regressing and people let themselves be ruled by their emotions and instincts like a fucking monkey.

 

[QSD]

these people are prepared to die before admitting they have been duped

Considering the level of fanatical entrenchment, can you honestly say these mandates are really a good idea? Seems very risky from a distance...

 

[Thaedolus]

Stop trying to minimize the overreach of the Biden administration here: Effectively removing 50+% of the job market for 120 million unvaxxed people is a bit more than just "requiring it as a condition of employment." You are fundamentally changing the landscape of employment for the entire country.

I’m not the one who drew the comparison to begin with. Maybe turn off whatever chucklefuck replaced Rush Limbaugh or (insert right wing radio host about to die to COVID next) and calm down, because this meltdown is embarrassing

 

[12Goblins]

Considering the level of fanatical entrenchment, can you honestly say these mandates are really a good idea? Seems very risky from a distance...

nah I don't agree with them, but it's probably the right call

 

[FunkMiller]

Stop trying to minimize the overreach of the Biden administration here: Effectively removing 50+% of the job market for 120 million unvaxxed people is a bit more than just "requiring it as a condition of employment." You are fundamentally changing the landscape of employment for the entire country.

Yes. By not hiring anti-vaxxers.

Get the vaccine. It’s very simple.

 

[carlosrox]

Yes. By not hiring anti-vaxxers.

Get vaxxed.

So if somebody ends up getting the vaccine even if they don't want to cuz they feel forced due to social shaming, job security, having access to basic things everyone is used to having their entire lives, etc, are they still "anti-vaxxers" ?

This term is fucking retarded and paints everyone with the same brush but why should I expect any better from people who are desperately looking for a scapegoat?

You do know that people (fuck knows how many) have gotten the vaccine but they did not want to? And no just cuz they're not interested in a vaccine it doesn't mean they're a Trump supporting, MAGA hat wearing, flat earther "science denier". I know several people who got the vaccine cuz they felt forced to, and I might be in that same camp soon too. Yeah, I might lose my job if I don't get the fucking vaccine, what a choice I have!

So if I get the vaccine but still think the global reaction is way overboard and vaccine passports are complete horse shit am I still an "anti vaxxer" "science denier" ?

Do I automatically become one of the good guys if I get vaxxed? Am I allowed to question this shit after getting vaxxed?

This with us or against us bullshit is tired as fuck.

 

[FunkMiller]

So if somebody ends up getting the vaccine even if they don't want to cuz they feel forced due to social shaming, job security, having access to basic things everyone is used to having their entire lives, etc, are they still "anti-vaxxers" ?

This term is fucking retarded and paints everyone with the same brush but why should I expect any better from people who are desperately looking for a scapegoat?

You do know that people (fuck knows how many) have gotten the vaccine but they did not want to? And no just cuz they're not interested in a vaccine it doesn't mean they're a Trump supporting, MAGA hat wearing, flat earther "science denier". I know several people who got the vaccine cuz they felt forced to, and I might be in that same camp soon too. Yeah, I might lose my job if I don't get the fucking vaccine, what a choice I have!

So if I get the vaccine but still think the global reaction is way overboard and vaccine passports are complete horse shit am I still an "anti vaxxer" "science denier" ?

Do I automatically become one of the good guys if I get vaxxed? Am I allowed to question this shit after getting vaxxed?

This with us or against us bullshit is tired as fuck.

Do you want to get the vaccine?

Do you believe what governments and scientists are telling you about the vaccine?

Do you think the vaccine is vital to ending this pandemic?

Do you have a medically recognised reason for not getting the vaccine?

Answered no to all of those?

Congrats! You’re an anti-vaxxer.

 

[MisterFalcon]

these people are prepared to die before admitting they have been duped

"Every part of my body is fine except for my lungs"

It's almost as if only 1% of something being affected is actually a really bad thing !

 

[Chankoras]

All the fascists coming out to play now. Emboldended by their facist-in-chief's flagrantly illegal moves as of late.

Vaccine mandates aren't new, this is broader than usual and we'll see some legal challenges against it, But calling people fascist is an overreaction all things considered.

 

[Boss Mog]

 

[carlosrox]

Answered no to all of those?

I didn't actually. They were a mix of no's, maybes, and I'm not sure.

But you didn't answer my question: what if I begrudgingly get the vaccine due to feeling forced and still call out mandatory vaccines and vaccine passports? Am I one of the good guys or an "anti-vaxxer" ?

To me an "anti-vaxxer" is someone who vehemently refuses to ever get the vaccine/thinks it's outright dangerous or has wild theories about it.

Being indifferent isn't the same as being against it so I get really fucking sick of people calling me a fucking anti-vaxxer or anti-science or whatever bullshit label they wanna put on me just cuz I'm not rushing out to get the shit.

Oh, more lies? Big surprise.

Did he seriously just say "do the right thing" ?
Coming from the President of the US that's fucking rich.

Since he's so virtuous and wanting to do the right thing is he gonna help stop factory farming? Help put an end to famine?

 

[thefool]

The EU a couple of years ago funded a study to evaluate the relationship between mandatory vaccines and immunization coverage on children. Not surprisingly, no strong correlation was found:

Compulsory Vaccination and Rates of Coverage Immunization in Europe

www.asset-scienceinsociety.eu

Even if this data visualization cannot provide full evidence of the efficacy or inefficacy of mandatory vaccination on immunisation rates, it shows that this approach does not appear to be relevant in determining childhood immunisation rate in the EU/EEA countries.

 

[Narasumas]

These are people’s lives man…not a podium you can use for your arguments. Gross. That’s someone’s mother or relative, regardless of what you think of her.

 

[Jaysen]

You're such a disingenuous ass hat. You never attempt to engage with any conversation outside of your line of thinking except for throwing out one liner insults that I'm sure to yourself you find to be hilarious.

No one politicizing an international health emergency deserves anything except derision.

 

[Punished Miku]

These are people’s lives man…not a podium you can use for your arguments. Gross. That’s someone’s mother or relative, regardless of what you think of her.

She's literally running around in a Zoro mask though. Just saying.

 

[Jaysen]

These are people’s lives man…not a podium you can use for your arguments. Gross. That’s someone’s mother or relative, regardless of what you think of her.

This idiot put other people’s mothers and relatives lives at risk with her idiocy. I’ll save my compassion for people who didn’t do that.

 

[Narasumas]

She's literally running around in a Zoro mask though. Just saying.

That’s fine, I understand what you are saying. But to then use her on her deathbed as a “see!? I told you!” point is extremely vile. It shouldn’t matter what your “point” is. These are peoples lives and someone is dying. It’s sad. We’ve really lost part of our humanity throughout all of this.

 

[WoJ]

Love all the clowns in this thread trying to defend Biden. You'd all be bitching if Trump did this. You're all so disingenuous.

 

[funkygunther]

These are people’s lives man…not a podium you can use for your arguments. Gross. That’s someone’s mother or relative, regardless of what you think of her.

you have more concern for her health than she did

 

[Narasumas]

This idiot put other people’s mothers and relatives lives at risk with her idiocy. I’ll save my compassion for people who didn’t do that.

That’s a bit of a fallacy or scapegoat. Regardless of your vaccination status, you still put others at risk merely by being in public on a daily basis. It helps being vaccinated, sure…but there still is a transmissibility risk by most. Would you speak to a child the same way who spread it to someone else? (“No! Because they didn’t know better, and she does!”). But people are scared and frightened for the first time in their lives and also don’t know what to do. These are weird times, and not everyone is the same. I hate that we have suddenly lumped everyone into binary categories. It will be our Achilles.

 

[Jaysen]

Some here are truly the epitome of the stupidity of today's society.

There are a few individual fates of people mentioned, who were apparently cured by Ivermectin. Others mention some individuals who are against vaccination and are now on a ventilator.

And in the end, both sides are so incredibly stupid that they use exactly these examples to support their position. It doesn't get much stupider than this - thanks to social media and the lack of independent thinking.

Anyone who is fat, old and/or has severe pre-existing conditions, get the hell vaccinated. In the USA, this already affects 70%+. But you also have to look at the other side of the coin. For almost everyone who does not belong to the groups just mentioned, it does not matter how they behave or whether they get vaccinated or not. In the end, nothing will happen to most of them, except that they will gain a natural immunity.
What the Biden/Harris administration is now asking for is a political failure, because no matter how you spin it, in the end it leads to the division of a society that is already divided. You can already see it here on the forum and in the streets and it's sad to see people drift apart over something that none of these people are to blame for. Of course you should never stop discussing, but when I see posts like "I don't care, let these fuckers die!" or "If he wasn't fat, he wouldn't be in the ICU!", I'm not surprised that humanity is regressing and people let themselves be ruled by their emotions and instincts like a fucking monkey.

The fucking vaccine is vital for the healthy and fit too. Holy shit how has that not gotten through to you “both sides are equally bad” people?

 

[Jaysen]

That’s a bit of a fallacy or scapegoat. Regardless of your vaccination status, you still put others at risk merely by being in public on a daily basis. It helps being vaccinated, sure…but there still is a transmissibility risk by most. Would you speak to a child the same way who spread it to someone else? (“No! Because they didn’t know better, and she does!”). But people are scared and frightened for the first time in their lives and also don’t know what to do. These are weird times, and not everyone is the same. I hate that we have suddenly lumped everyone into binary categories. It will be our Achilles.

See, this bit of idiocy might work on people as dumb as the idiot in the Zorro mask, but intelligent people comprehend that the vaccinated and masked-up are not remotely as dangerous to everyone else as the unvaccinated and unmasked complete dipshits of the world.

 

[Narasumas]

See, this bit of idiocy might work on people as dumb as the idiot in the Zorro mask, but intelligent people comprehend that the vaccinated and masked-up are not remotely as dangerous to everyone else as the unvaccinated and unmasked complete dipshits of the world.

I GET the health sides…so put that to the side for a brief moment. To this day…we are still being purposefully withheld information on this virus, and the most senior folks are having to slowly move goalposts in real time. Do you not think that could implant some hesitancy into some of the population? Look, this isn’t “my hill” or anything, and I’m not here to be their sole defender…but I can understand why some of these people have hesitancies. This has played out like a true shit show, and the band aid of truth has never really been ripped off. We’ve all been flying by the seat of our pants for two years.

 

[Punished Miku]

That’s fine, I understand what you are saying. But to then use her on her deathbed as a “see!? I told you!” point is extremely vile. It shouldn’t matter what your “point” is. These are peoples lives and someone is dying. It’s sad. We’ve really lost part of our humanity throughout all of this.

It's both vile and not vile. I also get what you're saying, and agree. I don't find it enjoyable to watch people die, and then right before they die - change their mind, and try to tell others that COVID is real, it's serious, they were wrong, and people should get the vaccine. But we've seen that over and over again now. It tells me that these are pretty much good people who care about others. As soon as they literally finally realize they're in danger and the vaccine is an easy fix, they try to tell people they were wrong and its often their last words. It's tragic, because it means they genuinely believe the misinformation they were sold.

So yeah, sometimes people are vile and rub it in. But sometimes we literally have nothing left to try and reach people but these before and after examples of vaccine skeptics, and using them as examples to try and get through to other vaccine skeptics. It's both vile and informative. But also, she was just straight up enjoying being as antagonistic as possible in a Zoro mask, ignoring mask mandates and probably spreading the virus to others, so she at the very least seems like a bit of an asshole as well.

 

[BouncyFrag]

This retweet by Ronald Klain, the WH Chief of Staff, says the quiet part out loud. Tyranny is bad. Dumb tyranny is even worse.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

This retweet by Ronald Klain, the WH Chief of Staff, says the quiet part out loud. Tyranny is bad. Dumb tyranny is even worse.

I don't think retweeting something signals intent.

 

[betrayal]

The fucking vaccine is vital for the healthy and fit too. Holy shit how has that not gotten through to you “both sides are equally bad” people?

See, that's exactly what you don't understand.

I'm not talking about pro and con (spoiler: I'm pro-vaccination), I'm talking about how most people treat people with other opinions and the hatred some people are expressing here because of it. It's not about accepting and adopting the other opinion, but it's about a certain respect towards other people.

People on both sides suddenly start acting as if the pros and cons of vaccination are the only criteria for judging a person. Absolutely disgusting and despicable. It is things like this blind rage and hatred that has already led to things in the past that humanity has no reason to be proud of.

 

[Narasumas]

See, that's exactly what you don't understand.

I'm not talking about pro and con (spoiler: I'm pro-vaccination), I'm talking about how most people treat people with other opinions and the hatred some people are expressing here because of it. It's not about accepting and adopting the other opinion, but it's about a certain respect towards other people.

People on both sides suddenly start acting as if the pros and cons of vaccination are the only criteria for judging a person. Absolutely disgusting and despicable. It is things like this blind rage and hatred that has already led to things in the past that humanity has no reason to be proud of.

It’s what I said a few posts back…everything is now a binary platform. You’re either “for” or “against”…and this thinking has been unraveling our country for some time.