This could all be wishful thinking of course, but the thought of hundreds or thousands of smaller, independent developers taking advantage of the cheap $10 downloadable games, being able to bypass the whole traditional retail distribution barrier....it could lead to something great(more original games, revival of 2D games)...or a lot of junk games...who knows...I guess we will see.
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Could XBLive Arcade lead to a gaming renaissance?
- Thread starter Lardbutt
- Start date
krypt0nian
Banned
The way I understand it, its very friendly to homebrew devs. You don't need a SDK to dev.
Just work in Windows and show your game to MS, and if its good enough they will help move it to 360.
EDIT: I believe there is a post by Jesiatha saying exactly that.
Just work in Windows and show your game to MS, and if its good enough they will help move it to 360.
EDIT: I believe there is a post by Jesiatha saying exactly that.
I am thrilled with XBL Arcade so far. I have 7 launch games sitting here (PDZ, RR6, CoD2, Kameo etc.) yet I've probably spent 95% of my 10 or so hours of 360 gaming on Arcade so far.
I hope they just don't stop here or trickle games out now and then. I'm really hoping for a steady flow of games, both new and classic. Several a month at least. Keep this thing vibrant.
I hope they just don't stop here or trickle games out now and then. I'm really hoping for a steady flow of games, both new and classic. Several a month at least. Keep this thing vibrant.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
dorio said:
:lol he's working overtime.
That said, they better reach a broader audience than they did with the Xbox by offering these things...to sell these things. Hopefully consumers will end up taking the chance on inexpensive, experimental efforts on the machine.
if there is some belief that I am upset about not having a system, trust me.. there isn't. I have had more than enough opportunities to buy one and in fact did score one for my buddy from the wal-mart thread.
and really this has nothing to do with xbox. the ability for small developers to create stuff for a mass audience has been around for quite some time. and while it is great what ms is doing to a small degree with XBA, the fact still remains that THEY have ultimate control over what gets released (same as they do with licensed publishers). So while this will open the door for a few more developers, it does little for the majority.
a great comparison of XBA is to the recent Epic Comics attempt by Marvel. Same exact thing. Anyone in the world can submit art or stories, and if Marvel likes what they see they will help you and publish your book. What happened? A couple of unknowns were given books, and the rest of the line was composed of industry talent. I see no difference here. There are a couple of new developers on the list, but the majority of content is from already established developers.
if any of you think that is really going to change, well.... just look at where Epic Comics ended up.
XBA may or may not take off, but this will end up having virtually no effect on unestablished development teams/houses, at least the vast majority of them.
edit - and as an aside, I wonder how much of a percentage a non-Midway/etc actually sees per download of an XBA title. especially considering it sounds like most of the development cost is probably already absorbed long before the title even gets ok'ed by MS.
and really this has nothing to do with xbox. the ability for small developers to create stuff for a mass audience has been around for quite some time. and while it is great what ms is doing to a small degree with XBA, the fact still remains that THEY have ultimate control over what gets released (same as they do with licensed publishers). So while this will open the door for a few more developers, it does little for the majority.
a great comparison of XBA is to the recent Epic Comics attempt by Marvel. Same exact thing. Anyone in the world can submit art or stories, and if Marvel likes what they see they will help you and publish your book. What happened? A couple of unknowns were given books, and the rest of the line was composed of industry talent. I see no difference here. There are a couple of new developers on the list, but the majority of content is from already established developers.
if any of you think that is really going to change, well.... just look at where Epic Comics ended up.
XBA may or may not take off, but this will end up having virtually no effect on unestablished development teams/houses, at least the vast majority of them.
edit - and as an aside, I wonder how much of a percentage a non-Midway/etc actually sees per download of an XBA title. especially considering it sounds like most of the development cost is probably already absorbed long before the title even gets ok'ed by MS.
How would one go about developing games for XBLA? Do you need a standard XBox 360 development kit? Will Microsoft allow any small developer to become licensed, and if not, what are the criteria?
I really doubt hundreds of small developers will take advantage of XBLA unless independent development is easy, cheap, and actively encouraged by Microsoft.
I really doubt hundreds of small developers will take advantage of XBLA unless independent development is easy, cheap, and actively encouraged by Microsoft.
element
Member
Most of these games were built on the PC and then shown to MS to have on XBLA. Upon approval by MS you could get access to a devkit to then port to XBLA. Simple version, but really this is what has happened.
Garage Games is said to be working on an Xbox 360 rev of their engine, which costs only $100.
truth? at this point there is no such thing as "submitting a game". The only developers that have games out or coming on Live Arcade are ones with established ties in the industry (PC or console). Everything stated is from PR talk by MS. In actuality there is currently noway for joe "developer on the street" blow to submit a game to MS for "approval".argon said:
If you expect them to throw just any crap on the system because the developer is indie I hope you're wrong. This has to be a very careful balancing act by MS to make sure only the highest quality titles are available because if they just throw anything up then it will be a nightmare just browsing through the crap. They need to be diligent on pruning the system of unpopular games.borghe said:
FirstInHell
Banned
It is funny how people are creaming over the prospect of the Nintendo Revoultion having downloadable content of classic games. Nothing is confirmed and may not be seen until later 2006 at the earliest. However, Microsoft seems to already have a system in place to do just that.
XBLA is a great middle ground between the over-produced big bucks next gen titles and the $5, probably spyware infested shareware on your PC, it exposes a much wider audience to the possibilities of gaming outside of Mario, Zelda, GTA & Halo, beyond the realm of flashy graphics and into pure gameplay fun.
Borghe is right, its not ever going to be a whiteboard for indy developers, but thats the PCs forte really, XBLA looks like it will provide a glossy front page to the somewhat spotty world of indy development. It wouldnt work if it was just "Come upload your game here, we accept anything!" because within a week it would be 99% pure shit and no one would ever look at it...like the PC scene.
I think there will definitely be a revival of 2d games between XBLA and revolution its a sure thing.
Borghe is right, its not ever going to be a whiteboard for indy developers, but thats the PCs forte really, XBLA looks like it will provide a glossy front page to the somewhat spotty world of indy development. It wouldnt work if it was just "Come upload your game here, we accept anything!" because within a week it would be 99% pure shit and no one would ever look at it...like the PC scene.
I think there will definitely be a revival of 2d games between XBLA and revolution its a sure thing.
shpankey
not an idiot
I just want an Arcade cards game on XBL. Where they have really nice 2d graphics designed for 1080i with all the onscreen characters having tons of cool animations (that we can select to play) with lots of cool saying (that we can select for them to say). Have it to where we can have large tables where new players can sit in an empty seat (that can be filled with a bot in between players). Have full voice support for the headset.
Make it to where there are tons of card games to pick from, like Spades, Pitch, Hearts, Rummy, Uno, Miles Borne, Poker, etc. etc. Make it to where you are rated on your strength of play... and make it to where you have a likeability meter where other players rate you on a 1 to 10 scale on how fun you are to play with. Then make it to where a table can set criteria for you to be able to join them.. like, you need a 7 on the likeability scale and need to be rated at least a 60 on strength of play. That type of thing.
Also, have the custom soundtrack feature work. Make it to where we can organize tourneys and make some MSFT supported cash prizes tourneys.
I would also like to see them hand out rankings... and have that proudly displayed on your character... like if I'm the #1 player in the world at partners spades, have it show that to everyone. Also, keep extremely detailed stats on every player... tracking any and everything possible on your play.
Lastly, make the character selection cutomizeable... like the tiger woods character creation screen. Hell, I could go on and on and on with ideas like this. It's something I've been thinking about for years; and yes, they have stuff like this on the PC, but to be honest, they fucking suck. The graphics are all tiny, nothing is very well thought out and put together and it doesn't let me sit on my couch and play it on my HDTV.
Make it to where there are tons of card games to pick from, like Spades, Pitch, Hearts, Rummy, Uno, Miles Borne, Poker, etc. etc. Make it to where you are rated on your strength of play... and make it to where you have a likeability meter where other players rate you on a 1 to 10 scale on how fun you are to play with. Then make it to where a table can set criteria for you to be able to join them.. like, you need a 7 on the likeability scale and need to be rated at least a 60 on strength of play. That type of thing.
Also, have the custom soundtrack feature work. Make it to where we can organize tourneys and make some MSFT supported cash prizes tourneys.
I would also like to see them hand out rankings... and have that proudly displayed on your character... like if I'm the #1 player in the world at partners spades, have it show that to everyone. Also, keep extremely detailed stats on every player... tracking any and everything possible on your play.
Lastly, make the character selection cutomizeable... like the tiger woods character creation screen. Hell, I could go on and on and on with ideas like this. It's something I've been thinking about for years; and yes, they have stuff like this on the PC, but to be honest, they fucking suck. The graphics are all tiny, nothing is very well thought out and put together and it doesn't let me sit on my couch and play it on my HDTV.
ok, to clarify my position on this here.
I am all for cheap (<$15) games for game systems. I hope XBLA succeeds and as others have alluded to plan to drop some serious coin on Nintendo's back catalog of previous gens.
My cynicism in this post is directly related to this being a tremendous boon for small developers and that MS is spurring the market along here. I view this as nothing more than the big publishers having even more ways to make money (almost exactly like what Nintendo's download service sounds like).
So is it good for consumers? Sure. beats having to own a NES and winning the game on ebay and dealing with shipping, shitty sellers, and pirated games.
Is it good for unpublished developers? Not really. A few might see wide exposure from this, but for the most part you will mainly to see Namco, Konami, Midway, etc taking part in this, as well as PC developers with proven games who don't have a publisher for X360 titles.
Is it a gaming rennisance? Honestly, not any more than Nintendo's download service, and not MUCH more than just going to ebay and finding a nice bundle deal with like a genesis and 20 top titles for $40.
IMHO of course.
I am all for cheap (<$15) games for game systems. I hope XBLA succeeds and as others have alluded to plan to drop some serious coin on Nintendo's back catalog of previous gens.
My cynicism in this post is directly related to this being a tremendous boon for small developers and that MS is spurring the market along here. I view this as nothing more than the big publishers having even more ways to make money (almost exactly like what Nintendo's download service sounds like).
So is it good for consumers? Sure. beats having to own a NES and winning the game on ebay and dealing with shipping, shitty sellers, and pirated games.
Is it good for unpublished developers? Not really. A few might see wide exposure from this, but for the most part you will mainly to see Namco, Konami, Midway, etc taking part in this, as well as PC developers with proven games who don't have a publisher for X360 titles.
Is it a gaming rennisance? Honestly, not any more than Nintendo's download service, and not MUCH more than just going to ebay and finding a nice bundle deal with like a genesis and 20 top titles for $40.
IMHO of course.
Synth_floyd
Banned
jman2050 said:
Like someone already said, welcome to 1992. There's this thing called shareware, you might want to look into it.
Teknopathetic
Member
Yeah, this isn't anything new to PCs. The only thing that smalltime devs don't have with PC is the exposure they would get with XBLA..
Synth_floyd said:
I'm more talking about the distribution vehicle. Shareware is around, but people have to make their own web spaces, do their own advertising or hiring thereof, worry about getting people to their site without any real assistance, provide their own payment services, etc. All besides actually making the game.
Cantralizing is almost always a good thing regarding projects like these, provided it is implemented properly. it's the difference between a service like iTunes as opposed to each individual record-maker having their own web site to sell their tunes.
I haven't been keeping up. Exactly how DOES Steam fare in that area?
krypt0nian
Banned
Synth_floyd said:
When shareware is given a potential new audience, its to be applauded not put down.
I LOVE how this scares so many people here. :lol
Send Jesiatha a PM and ask him. Maybe he'll post here.
This is where we disagree and why I think it MAY lead to a "renaissance" and you don't. I do take issue with the word renaissance since I think gaming has never been better, but that's besides the point. I'll tell you why XBLA is unique and has the potential to drastically alter the Indie dev scene. Audience. You mention things on the PC side, but the audience for those games is TINY. You really have to know where you're going and what to look for to get anything useful out of the PC shareware scene. With XBA you already have a HUGE audience (millions, instead of thousands) that are into gaming. So out of all the millions of 360 owners what percentage will use Arcade? Who knows, that's what we're going to find out.borghe said:
If it's a significant percentage then that means a lot of people are going to be buying these indie games. Now remember that HALF of the revenue goes to the indy developer. So that means a lot of revenue, far greater than most indie developers have ever dreamed of. That greater revenue will make for better incentives from indie developers because they can actually feed themselves. It's about creating a sustainable ecosystem for development. So that's from Microsoft's side, and what they've done with the interface and everything, as well as the revenue sharing is truly revolutionary. Now combine that the development side of things where you have ready available technology such as the Torque engine which can be liscensed for $100.
Now, if the percentage of 360 owners that buy Arcade games is very low, then all of this is moot as there just won't be the capital to sustain a healthy development environment.
Live Arcade is gonna be huge, especially with people who play games more than post on game forums.
Many of us no doubt have MB/GB of downloads, Roms, etc. that are too annoying or a hassle to play on our HDTV with wired controllers. Hassle to play on our PC or notebook.
The 360 puts an end to this, has the games in 720p, wireless controller with no extra learning/configuration and is DIRT CHEAP.
Many of us no doubt have MB/GB of downloads, Roms, etc. that are too annoying or a hassle to play on our HDTV with wired controllers. Hassle to play on our PC or notebook.
The 360 puts an end to this, has the games in 720p, wireless controller with no extra learning/configuration and is DIRT CHEAP.