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Bravely Default Microtransaction Details
- Thread starter QaaQer
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True. I was under the impression that this was basically 'funding' the sequel in which this particular case fans might take a different stance, if they care. But I can understand being miffed by the reasoning given here.
BudokaiMR2
Member
It is really not that simple. There are not benevolent creators behind the scenes making these sorts of decisions because they want you to get the most out of the product.
They want to make money off of you.
Now this is where I am going off the deep end and I know there is nothing to back this up, but by buying this and not spending cash on SP drinks you are still adding to the problem.
There are obviously going to be guys checking the ratio of people spending money on this stuff. They aren't putting resources into these sort of features for no reason.
It is entirely possible (not saying it is likely) that they see that 85% of people never buy a single SP drink.
And then they extrapolate that into the fact that they need to change the game balance for the next game to encourage more people to spend money.
I know I am taking a really pessimistic view with this example but with the current industry trends I can't help but be that way.
Wrestlemania
Banned
As most have said, making it excessively grindy in order to maximise the number of people who would pay their way through, it would have been a problem. As it stands, there's plenty of ways to get through a particularly tough battle/area without resorting to this - lower the difficulty, lower the encounter rate or just use the Bravely Pause points you'll be getting from sleep mode anyway.
Wait, if you fear that this trend may affect Bravely Default 2, then why are you supporting its inclusion in Bravely Default 1?
Wrestlemania
Banned
If this was the case then there really is no way they'd include the others way of lowering the difficulty. They wouldn't need to wait for the game to release to see that the other things they've put in place will lower the number of people who will purchase more sleep points.
Well, as said in earlier threads, this is an interesting unique case in that we have a microtransactionless version that we can directly compare it to. If the flow is similar, they've succeded.
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
So they couldn't add an option in the menu for beginners that lets you refill on BS at a moments notice?
Oh, okay. Skipping this on principle. This type of practice is slowly killing our hobby.
Oh, okay. Skipping this on principle. This type of practice is slowly killing our hobby.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Yeah, that is a good point that I overlooked with my usual pessimistic attitude. ;p
Then again weren't those features announced way earlier than the SP drinks stuff was ever talked about? I am not sure in all honesty.
I don't understand how anyone can be okay with this. There are certainly worse iterations out there, but this is still distasteful at best. Why should players financially compensate for their impatience or a lack of skill? If a system to alleviate their displeasure (one could argue whether this should concern a designer at all or to what degree) can be so easily implemented, why is it attached to a financial transaction? If they don't want them to put up with the game being too hard to beat, paying up is A-OK? That doesn't make any sense.
It will be a very interesting comparison to make, though one that won't be indicative of future Square releases with microtransactions. These games have to be taken on a case by case basis as I don't think we can ever trust the publishers to keep the best interesting of actual game players in mind... especially at Square.
no, they see that people don't pay 2 win. So they inturn start selling cosmetic stuff and selling levels that should have been in the game as DLC.
You are taking multiple worst case scenarios in all steps, but just because they are the worst case, not the most logical. Like this:
"It is entirely possible (not saying it is likely) that they see that 85% of people never buy a single SP drink.
And then they extrapolate that into the fact that they need to change the game balance for the next game to encourage more people to spend money."
I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, since Bravely Default is still considered a product game. This will be different if BD is a F2P.
If you still want a pessimistic view for some reason, they can lock more weapons/jobs to be unlocked through the F2P browser game. But there wouldn't be much interesting discussion if all we talk about is the worst case scenario.
there are in game pop ups from what I understand, which is enough to ruin the immersion for me. ymmv
BudokaiMR2
Member
Like I said, I am not saying this is likely or logical. But is it possible? Of course it is.
And we are already seeing the line between product and F2P games being blurred more and more over time. The fact that we are already seeing timesaver packs and related options in this new generation spells nothing but bad news imo.
And the discussion is even less interesting if all you want people to say is "Oh it's cool because you don't have to spend the money at all."
Augemitbutter
Member
maybe it's easy to ignore, but it's still a scam. i don't want any mention of this while i'm enjoying the game. i don't buy games so i can pay money to skip them. are they going to sell -> skip to the ending-potions next?
in advance, i'm sorry for everyone falling for this.
in advance, i'm sorry for everyone falling for this.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It's alot easier for those with too high of expectations and too little effort to reach for that credit card. It's a flowering of alot of bad ideas from both sides of the divide.
I want to play this game. I've been itching for something like it for quite some time and enjoyed the demo very much. I'd prefer if there were no microtransactions at all but I want to give them a chance before I completely strike this off my list. It will no longer be day one though. I will buy this once I can confirm that the game isn't wasting my time because I didn't buy SP Drinks.
It would have been different if they are honest about it. "we needed this micro transactions for fund future projects", instead of pr bullshit.
Or they could have made micro transactions for new outfits/effects that doesn't affect gameplay. Look how Path of exile does it, and it works.
Or they could have made micro transactions for new outfits/effects that doesn't affect gameplay. Look how Path of exile does it, and it works.
They're being completely honest about it. A lot of players didn't finish BD because they found it too difficult and now they have this system in place for those people, but you could just ignore it. It's just like how Namco or Falcom sell level up packs for their games and things like that, they're made for people who aren't very good at those games and don't mind paying a bit to make the experience a little easier for them.
Man, I just don't understand the mental leap done behind the SP drink's implementation in a positive way. I don't think anyone would complain if Bravely Second was included and the only way to get SP points to use it was sleep mode. That alone would be fine and well explained with "we want to help players beat the game without breaking the game". What's supposed to be the rationale for letting people buy SP drinks on top of that other than "we want more money"?
Winnie the Pimp
Member
I guess in this very specific case it COULD be tolerated since apparently it does not really affect the gameplay in any way and seems kind of "invisible".
However, i can also agree with the people that chose to not buy games that even have so much as a HINT of microtransactions simply to send a VERY clear message to devs that a certain portion of gamers simply do NOT condone Microtransactions at ALL and believe it is a trend that absolutely needs disappear from the industry.
However, i can also agree with the people that chose to not buy games that even have so much as a HINT of microtransactions simply to send a VERY clear message to devs that a certain portion of gamers simply do NOT condone Microtransactions at ALL and believe it is a trend that absolutely needs disappear from the industry.
It sounds like to me that if you don't pay2win. You still have whatever that bravely second mechanic? I guess it's more of an in-game advertisement for the system seeing as it builds up slowly... really weird, I hope it doesn't detract. I hear that the game has a lot of anime-culture references in it as well. I really just want a self-contained well devised world, narrative and character development.
You and I perfectly know what is the message they'll take from it :
They didn't want to play the game, period.
Not that they didn't like some kind of strategy or felt gouged, they'll say : "No market for this type of game."
It's the kind of no-win games gamers play with Capcom too.
sixteen-bit
Member
Didn't Namco pioneer this with the Tales games on PS360?
Velcro Fly
Member
Not willing to miss out on a game like this over principle. I won't spend money on the stuff, but I'll buy the game day one for sure.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Yeah, this is basically where I stand.
I was planning to pick up For The Sequel as I was busy with other games and never got around to picking up the original and wanted to support a good S-E game.
Now I am probably just going to buy the original version used instead.
I don't even like seeing these sorts of microtransactions that exploit player ineptitude or ignorance in F2P games. I absolutely loathe the fact that they are starting to creep into normal packaged products.
No, it's all about the money.
LOL what is this? dark souls hard mode? even that game can be finished if you are patient and smart.
I got all bonuses and 18 villagers in just over 9 hours in the demo and had a blast while doing it. This game is right up my alley and will enjoy the hell out of it!
Actually there's an easy mode and you can make the game even more easy, it's really a paid win button if you suck THAT much at the game.
Looking at the demo, you really do need to suck badly to use that.
If it was all about the money it would have gotten the treatment All the Bravest got.
1) You're not Aeana but good try
2) there's an easy mode in the game that you can change whenever you want
3) you can alter the encounter rate however you want whenever you want to.
So yeah they're literally giving people another way to make it easier by putting another optional stuffs to make the game easier and making people pay for it (or not if they're not that impatient.)
That's good that they have those options in the game, more reason why their argument makes no sense. I still wish they would keep F2P elements out of retail games.
BTW when I joined gaf in 2008 I didn't know who Aeana was
turnbuckle
Member
good for them for taking advantage of players, particularly those that may not be as good at the genre as others? what a cynical way of applauding this crap. what a great way to welcome people to a new series.
I'm struggling to think of a commercial product where that is not the case.
It's easy to treat the whole thing as a monolithic Evil Entity which just wants to EAT ALL YOUR MONEY, but that isn't actually the case. The people who make design decisions absolutely want you to get the most out of the product. And there's people who absolutely want to maximise the profits of the product. There's always going to be a conflict within a company between those two groups.
The thing is, budgetary considerations are made on an assumption of attempted revenue, which puts the design folks in a tough position: You can make a better game with a higher budget (and believe me, resources are always tight), but to do so you need to convince the money folks that it'll be financially viable to do so. It's always a balancing act, and it's not an easy one. Moreso given that, since this is a paid product, they need to find a metric which does not significantly impact the revenue from the actual retail sales.
That's an important factor, there: In Free To Play, it's the whales who dominate the direction of design, but that's not the case with paid product; in that, the revenue that comes from sales of the core products will outweigh much of the revenue that comes from microtransactions, so you want to make design decisions that don't harm the core design too greatly.
I'm still waiting to hear about how the balance of this compares with the original, but the compromise they've come to does sound - on paper - like it really is the most harmless way of appeasing both sides.
Ultimately: That's why my stance with *all* these is to handle them on a case-by-case basis, rather than to assume the worst.
GenericJoe
Member
Sadly, this. That's why even though DLC/Microtransactions are killing my interest in gaming, I'm still going to get this. Not buying it out of "principle" is not going to send any kind of message to Square Enix. They're already committed to this path.
People boycott the game and it flops: series dead. People buy the game and it is successful: more microtransactions in the sequel. No-win either way. I don't like it, but I don't see any realistic way to change it.
clay_ghost
Member
That's good that they have those options in the game, more reason why their argument makes no sense. I still wish they would keep F2P elements out of retail games.
BTW when I joined gaf in 2008 I didn't know who Aeana was
Now you know.
Fake edit
Wtf goggle search result
DO NOT search Dragon Quest and her name :/\Wait i always read it as Alena (because of Dragon quest and slime avatar) :0 I was wrong? LOL...........
Sorry
Velcro Fly
Member
They definitely want your money, but I think at a certain point they definitely want people to like and finish the game. What was that figure about people in Japan finishing the original? It was a really low percent. They've made a ton of changes to streamline gameplay so that just gameplay mechanics aren't hampering the completion of the game. They are already working on a sequel to this right? It seems like they want this to become a series. And what better way to do that than offer a simple way to get past a rough boss battle?
All of you people skipping this because of this little invisible thing which you don't need to ever use abd won't effect the gameplay at all are fools. This isn't anything like the whole Forza fiasco, nowhere near close. So have fun skipping what looks like one of the best RPG's on the 3DS because of 'principles'...
Nah, none of these people had any intention to buy the game in the first place.
Now you know.
Fake edit
Wtf goggle search result
Wait i always read it as Alena (because of Dragon quest and slime avatar) :0 I was wrong? LOL...........
Sorry
And now I don't know if it's Aeana , Alena or something else!
Thanks -_-'
phosphor112
Banned
Put this crap in the garbage where it belongs.
How are people ok with these things?
How are people ok with these things?
Nonsense. If they see that a lot of peope bought the game, but next to no one made use of the microtransactions, their conclusion won't be "Oh wow, microtransactions surely helped our sales!"
BudokaiMR2
Member
I don't think people really understand what I mean when I said "not saying it is likely*
I will say that bringing in points like budgetary considerations and profit maximizing in this thread is just silly in my opinion. We are talking about what basically amounts to a director's cut of the game where most of the major changes are something you would see in free patch notes for a lot of other games.
Also, I love the fact that people accept my example as the worst case scenario when it really is not.
85% of people not buying a single SP drink is probably the best case scenario I can think of.
85% buying at least at least 10 SP drinks in one playthrough is a much worse case.
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