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[Alexios]

They will be available as DIY kits with their 3D printable guns or conversions for existing models as well as full products. They use some kind of infrared light system like Gun4IR rather than Sinden's screen border solution. No clue how accurate/pricy they are going to be but hey, options are good.
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[Kuranghi]

I like this, I'm glad I forgot to buy a Sinden now. Annoying but much better to have crap stuck to your TV than a white border around every game window.

 

[Alexios]

I like this, I'm glad I forgot to buy a Sinden now. Annoying but much better to have crap stuck to your TV than a white border around every game window.

There are pros and cons to both, like the actual set up (also border can be various colors). We'll see how good this and its software works (you may already opt for a Gun4IR setup instead). For me the most disappointing aspect of any such product so far is the final price more than anything else, I don't see how/why they cost more than $50. Real lightguns used to go for around that much back in the day and it's still just some plastic with a few buttons and a camera not much unlike a Wii remote (also around $40 in 2006), only some super elaborate gun/weapon models like some of these here or the addition of a high quality pedal or other systems justifies an excessive price for those interested in that niche-within-a-niche, a basic gun shell shouldn't be expensive. Especially with the potential of emulating/playing lightgun games in VR it's just too limited use for too high a price.

 

[Kuranghi]

There are pros and cons to both, like the actual set up (also border can be various colors). We'll how good this works and the software (you can already opt for a Gun4IR setup instead). For me the most disappointing aspect of any such product so far is the final price more than anything else, I don't see how/why they cost more than $50. Real lightguns used to go for around that much back in the day and it's still just simple plastic with a few buttons and a camera not much unlike a Wii remote (also around $50 in 2006), only some super elaborate gun/weapon model like some of these Blamcon stuff or the addition of a high quality pedal or other systems justifies an excessive price for those interested in that niche-within-a-niche, a basic gun shell shouldn't be so expensive. Especially with the potential of emulating lightgun games in VR nowadays it's too limited use for high price.

Cheers for the info about the border colour, I take it Gun4IR is similar to this? The name implies its using an IR bar.

I think the pricing thing is down to the fact that they are producing these things in extremely limted quantities, so the cost is much higher and then there's their time and the time spent developing it. I dunno, things like this I would say its fair to charge a premium because there aren't large company alternatives.

 

[Alexios]

Yeah, Gun4IR is a DIY kit deal but a certain store seems almost like an official partner and they sell premade kits or convert your own lightgun (retro or some crap from AimTrak or whatever) and they're way pricy but in that case I do get it as it's some dudes DIYing it on your behalf and not like a factory. But when there's actual production like Sinden I feel they could go way cheaper (how does Retro-bit make $20 niche system controllers, the tech is similar minus the camera lens?). There's the Pandora's Box or whatever Chinese company selling knock off consoles with thousands of built in games that now sells this Retro Shooter kit which costs $250 or so after import and comes with 2 lightguns with recoil, 2 pedals, 2 dual analog controllers, 2 NES style controllers, 4 sensors (IR lights) & their shit console on top. It's not nearly as good as Sinden or Gun4IR but that's probably down to the software more than anything else (like Gun4IR it uses 4 sensors, also the console & its specs/OS probably affect it all negatively too) and it shows you can produce such things for less. Maybe Sinden got a bad factory deal or didn't design it well for cheap production despite having less parts

Or just buy a discounted Quest 2 or similar and play this shit in EmuVR or whatever other software and do a ton more stuff with it too...
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[Kuranghi]

The Sinden guy sounds British so he's going to have much higher production costs probably, the wild difference in pricing vs. that Chinese company (for what you get) will be down to production at scale costs as I understand it, my source is a few years old video* so maybe its different now but if you're in China you can get stuff made in Shenzhen for buttons even in tiny quantities, whereas over here you're paying way more even for larger quantities.

Even after all that though... it does seem like the Sinden guy is just charging more because he can. I sell TVs, the brand I work for has an entry level TV that overall gives you a better picture than one that Samsung charge nearly double for, and they have it as part of their mid range sets, so the Samsung should be quite a bit better on paper. Sometimes its not much to do with the BOM or the overall production costs and more down to R&D, marketing and logistical costs that dictates the price required to get the return on investment they need/want.

*It was on Strange Parts channel, but I looked and none of them ring a bell, in the video he talks about how you could buy parts in a quantity of 1 locally in Shenzhen and it was cheaper than when you ordered in qunatities of 10 or 100 remotely.

 

[Alexios]

Anyway, my ideal lightgun (other than cheap, lol) would have the inputs of the Sinden (maybe put the d-pad on the back like Polymega did), around the size of the Sega Handcannon shell for Wii and the option for a front grip attached right at the end of the barrel (I made a crappy DIY one for my Handcannon and it works) so you can hold it both as a pistol for standard lightgun games like Virtua Cop and Time Crisis and an SMG or whatever for stuff that have big weapons like HOTD3's shotgun or Ghost Squad's rifle and games that are played with the crosshair on for constant rapid fire like L.A. Machineguns or Alien 3: The Gun, hip firing rather than aiming. The front grip could have a second trigger for functions like sub weapons in later HOTD games or the action button in Ghost Squad, it could also be an alternative to Time Crisis' pedal but these should also be mapped on buttons outside the front grip for when using it like a pistol, some games need more buttons for weapon switching etc. too so figure out the best placement, maybe the handle could have a pinky button. It could retain the pump reload of the Sinden and with the front grip feel shotgunny

Various games atm I play best with the Wii Zapper because I can have the main trigger (that I set on Z), a front trigger (B) and also have the c button so I have easy access to primary fire, secondary fire and weapon switching or whatever else (and I can also set reload, insert coin, a start button and other functions to analog stick directions, so I guess considering such things will be used for emulation for sure among other stuff you definitely need a few additional buttons and inputs so you don't resort to the keyboard or whatever else as much). It's definitely much more of a hassle if I only use the Sega Handcannon which only has easy access to the trigger so it's not even very suitable for something like Ghost Squad on Wii despite being a Wii controller shell if you don't also attach the nunchuck (as on the Zapper) which of course then isn't as much like a gun in feel.

 

[Alexios]

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[Danny Dudekisser]

So wait... is this finally a solution for real hardware? I want to be able to play House of the Dead 2 and Time Crisis 2 again. If it's just for emulators, though, I'm out.