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Bioshock Infinite was a terrible sequel to Bioshock
- Thread starter Amibguous Cad
- Start date
This.
darkwing-buck
Member
I have never been so enthralled by any other game like those first 20 minutes in infinite. Too bad as a "game" it came out pretty average. I still enjoyed it though.
Bioshock 2 has the best FPS mechanics of any game in the franchise. If you could retrofit them back into Bioshock 1 it would be a damn near perfect game.
Spacecowboy77
Member
Opinions like assholes, etc...
I loved it.
More than the original in fact. Mainly cause of the scary atmosphere and occasional jump scares (damn splicers..) but both are excellent games.
I loved it.
More than the original in fact. Mainly cause of the scary atmosphere and occasional jump scares (damn splicers..) but both are excellent games.
I disagree. They're both great games, and you don't have to play either one of them in sequential order to enjoy them.
Pacing of Bioshock 1 fell apart after the twist. When you look back at the game you realize it's a bunch of fetch questing with you shooting at a bunch of mangled humanoid creatures.
If you didn't find all the easter eggs/references in Infinite, then you haven't recognized all the love + efforts in it. Audio director/producer had a lot of fun with this game.
Here's a video: https://youtu.be/ObNh8Zr6gsc
Spoilers.
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Criticism for why is the game a shooter is valid. Excitement/interest/motivation was learning about the characters + voice acting + music lore + atmosphere.
However, I had a great time playing it. One of the few games I completed in two sittings.
Pacing of Bioshock 1 fell apart after the twist. When you look back at the game you realize it's a bunch of fetch questing with you shooting at a bunch of mangled humanoid creatures.
If you didn't find all the easter eggs/references in Infinite, then you haven't recognized all the love + efforts in it. Audio director/producer had a lot of fun with this game.
Here's a video: https://youtu.be/ObNh8Zr6gsc
Spoilers.
-------------
Criticism for why is the game a shooter is valid. Excitement/interest/motivation was learning about the characters + voice acting + music lore + atmosphere.
However, I had a great time playing it. One of the few games I completed in two sittings.
brandonh83
Banned
One of my favorites from last gen. Gameplay and story were fantastic to me.
spindoctor
Member
I agree with this. It's highly amusing for people to be enamored by the philosophical trappings of one game and then completely shit on the other. They really weren't that far apart in quality.
I guess this is just a part of the cycle for these games. Many people considered Bioshock to be vastly inferior to System Shock when it came out. Now you have people who consider Infinite to be inferior to Bioshock. I'm sure when/if a new one comes out, people will compare that unfavorably to Infinite.
Cabbagehead
Member
But i thought the Bioshock series is terrible though. Right?
Langdon Alger
Banned
You're right that the first Bioshock wasn't exactly deep. But at least Bioshock 1's story formed a pretty cohesive whole and just tried to take on one philosophical topic. Infinite is about slavery and inequality, but then it ignores that and is about revolutions going bad. (I guess?) And then it ignores all that stuff and is about fate, maybe? Then it just goes off and gets into a bunch of sci-fi clichés about multiple universes that have been done a hundred times before. The story is just all over the place.
fabricated backlash
Member
I'm currently playing through it for the first time on my new PC, but man is the social commentary heavy handed... like almost System of a Down levels of heavy handed.
Like when you read a first semester paper about any complex subject matter, or MGS trying to tackle politics and ethics kind of heavy handed. Like "look we're deep, noticed how deep we are, did we mention that we have underlying themes in this game? No, well let us beat you over the head with it some more... still not noticed? Let's throw in some more vignettes that have the subtlety of a ten ton tanker...
I mean I get it, you have to be blunt in such a format, but the game commits the cardinal sin of games by showing not doing. Especially in such a game you could make it much more interactive, instead of just doing semi interactive cutscenes.
Like the stuff where Elizabeth is throwing coins or ammo at you... that mechanic actually helps bind you into the game world, but then you come across NPCs and you just know that your presence and their presence is absolutely in no connection to one another. It's just basic window dressing. They have nothing to say or do, and no matter what you do, the world around you won't change...
a pitty since the game could explore this much better instead of just throwing waves of enemies at you that feel like the least interesting cannon fodder ever.
In the original Bioshock the Splicers were actually pityful creatures, every encounter felt like you killed a person instead of just another soldier. This is further expanded later when you learn who the Big Daddies are, the ultimate perversion of the splicers concept, but in Infinite... yeah... none of the grunts or even bosses has anything to contribute to make the games concepts fleshed out.
Maybe I'll change my mind once I finish the game, but I doubt it.
Like when you read a first semester paper about any complex subject matter, or MGS trying to tackle politics and ethics kind of heavy handed. Like "look we're deep, noticed how deep we are, did we mention that we have underlying themes in this game? No, well let us beat you over the head with it some more... still not noticed? Let's throw in some more vignettes that have the subtlety of a ten ton tanker...
I mean I get it, you have to be blunt in such a format, but the game commits the cardinal sin of games by showing not doing. Especially in such a game you could make it much more interactive, instead of just doing semi interactive cutscenes.
Like the stuff where Elizabeth is throwing coins or ammo at you... that mechanic actually helps bind you into the game world, but then you come across NPCs and you just know that your presence and their presence is absolutely in no connection to one another. It's just basic window dressing. They have nothing to say or do, and no matter what you do, the world around you won't change...
a pitty since the game could explore this much better instead of just throwing waves of enemies at you that feel like the least interesting cannon fodder ever.
In the original Bioshock the Splicers were actually pityful creatures, every encounter felt like you killed a person instead of just another soldier. This is further expanded later when you learn who the Big Daddies are, the ultimate perversion of the splicers concept, but in Infinite... yeah... none of the grunts or even bosses has anything to contribute to make the games concepts fleshed out.
Maybe I'll change my mind once I finish the game, but I doubt it.
brandonh83
Banned
Not to this guy. I also liked 2 a lot.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can see that. It seemed that Infinite was rushed into a shippable linear game experience in the late stages of development hell... and a lot of complex story themes were probably truncated and given mere lip service. I guess I kind of liked the way that it devolved into a fairytale Doctor Who episode at the end, but then again I wasn't expecting this roller coaster to be "smart".
Bio1 survives because it hits the same note over and over "all the citizens of Rapture lived without ethical limits", so nothing about the theme feels "missing".
Why not? It was a game about spending some hours shooting stuff & blowing shit up in cool alternate 50's underwater environments while being ridiculously over powered, following a map marker all the time and not even having to worry about doing the above well since death only meant respawning a few meters away... sounds like quintessential modern AAA to me. It was nothing but System Shock dumbed down. Was Infinite even dumber? maybe.. but not by much.
'Deconstructing Ayn Rand', come on. 99% of people who bought it didn't care who Ayn Rand was, and still didn't after finishing the game.
Imp the Dimp
Member
I don't remember Bioshock 1 having any RPG mechanics? I finished it multiple times.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah the whole "not greenlit today" really raises my eyebrows.
The core of this industry is shooter games with some high concept "smart" premise layered on top to justify the shooting gallery. It's a generically AAA concept.
Despite coming out in 2007, Bio1 came out at the dawn of the modern AAA game scene we are currently in. It certainly did not belong to a previous era of gaming... it pioneered the mainstream of today.
DevilSnake
Member
Bioshock was a terrible successor to System Shock. System Shock was a masterpiece.
Bioshock 2 was a terrible sequel to Bioshock. Bioshock was was a masterpiece.
Bioshock Infinite was a terrible sequel to Bioshock 2. Bioshock 2 was was a masterpiece.
Bioshock 4.....
Seriously though, Bioshock Infinite wasn't a bad sequel. It might not have hit the same notes as the first game but it tried something different, had some brilliant moments & certainly wasn't terrible, it also looked fantastic, especially for the hardware it was running on.
Bioshock 2 was a terrible sequel to Bioshock. Bioshock was was a masterpiece.
Bioshock Infinite was a terrible sequel to Bioshock 2. Bioshock 2 was was a masterpiece.
Bioshock 4.....
Seriously though, Bioshock Infinite wasn't a bad sequel. It might not have hit the same notes as the first game but it tried something different, had some brilliant moments & certainly wasn't terrible, it also looked fantastic, especially for the hardware it was running on.
It was extremely light, but if I recall there was more choice in progression of weapons and plasmids than what we got in Infinite.
toddhunter
Member
You think about bioshock infinite the way I thought about bioshock 1. Brain dead shooter vs brain deadier shooter. It is barely worth thinking about.
It is the way of the gaming world. Halo ruined shooters, but now Halo fans worry about call of duty. Sunrise, sunset.
In a few years bioshock infinite fans will bemoan how games have been dumbed down and are now boring and linear experiences.
Then we'll all get together and drink the night away. We will not play games.
It is the way of the gaming world. Halo ruined shooters, but now Halo fans worry about call of duty. Sunrise, sunset.
In a few years bioshock infinite fans will bemoan how games have been dumbed down and are now boring and linear experiences.
Then we'll all get together and drink the night away. We will not play games.
Imp the Dimp
Member
All right, I must have forgotten about it entirely then. I got it memorized as a full-fledged shooter.
DrunkShogun
Member
Bioshock infinite was easily the most disappointing game I've ever played because I still can't think of a thing that it did well. The concept was strong but nothing was actually done with the concept.
spiderferi
Member
No, It was not.
GAF needs to chill a bit about hating , it's becoming like the DOTA community, many hate posts with no arguments. They say bioshock sucks ass because SS2 was masterpiece, come the fuck on. maybe SS2 was one of the best games of all time (which was) but it doesn't mean that Bioshock 1 sucks.
Then someone comes and says Bioshock 2 was the best and says that as a fact, which is not , it's like saying DAII was better than origins.
GAF needs to chill a bit about hating , it's becoming like the DOTA community, many hate posts with no arguments. They say bioshock sucks ass because SS2 was masterpiece, come the fuck on. maybe SS2 was one of the best games of all time (which was) but it doesn't mean that Bioshock 1 sucks.
Then someone comes and says Bioshock 2 was the best and says that as a fact, which is not , it's like saying DAII was better than origins.
I'm thinking the opposite; Bioshock was a terrible prequel to Bioshock Infinite.
See, I came from the other direction; played the original Bioshock for 10 minutes once, then never Bioshock 2, then finally Infinite after putting it off for some time. Absolutely loved it. Wanted to play the original game really bad, now with a new mindset, but ended up not liking the horror approach at all and decided that Infinite was the only one for me.
See, I came from the other direction; played the original Bioshock for 10 minutes once, then never Bioshock 2, then finally Infinite after putting it off for some time. Absolutely loved it. Wanted to play the original game really bad, now with a new mindset, but ended up not liking the horror approach at all and decided that Infinite was the only one for me.
Englebert3rd
Unconfirmed Member
Nailed the point! It really should've been either a Telltale-style adventure (even a normal Point & Click) or a third person adventure like Enslaved.
I would've appreciated it more if it was these two genres.
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
I really enjoyed both, though the Skyrails in Infinite were an annoyance to me.
As far as depth goes, I think both allude to things that are merely played with, rather than being truly cohesive in terms of mechanics being driven by the narrative themes. I remember an interview with Ken Levine where he was very open about how he liked to explore certain ideas, but that his knowledge was only surface deep, having been introduced to certain things via popular culture and the like.
The original had issues - the choice whether to save Little Sisters had no real bearing, no penalty for death etc - that didn't tie in with the Rand theme well, but I suspect the flies in the ointment of Infinite are just fresher in the memory, and it lacked an environment as atmospheric as Rapture.
I had fun with both.
As far as depth goes, I think both allude to things that are merely played with, rather than being truly cohesive in terms of mechanics being driven by the narrative themes. I remember an interview with Ken Levine where he was very open about how he liked to explore certain ideas, but that his knowledge was only surface deep, having been introduced to certain things via popular culture and the like.
The original had issues - the choice whether to save Little Sisters had no real bearing, no penalty for death etc - that didn't tie in with the Rand theme well, but I suspect the flies in the ointment of Infinite are just fresher in the memory, and it lacked an environment as atmospheric as Rapture.
I had fun with both.
Bioshocker
Member
I don't agree with OP at all. BioShock Infinite was an amazing game. Great story, incredible environments, formidable art style and I though the battle was way better than in the first BioShock.
Game of 2013 for me (before I played The Last of Us).
Game of 2013 for me (before I played The Last of Us).
thomasmahler
Member
I thought Bioshock Infinite was a very mediocre game with great art direction. The gameplay felt on a level with Quake 2, just hopelessly outdated and boring. That said, I also never liked the original Bioshock, so I might have never been their target audience.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Bioshock Infinite was an amazing sequel to Bioshock.
Fixed all of the pacing issues of the original, with a much stronger finish.
The story was phenomenal, the world, atmosphere, etc was fantastic
Though I prefer Rapture and Ryan, Infinite was as close to catching lightening in a bottle the second time as anyone could realistically hope for.
Fixed all of the pacing issues of the original, with a much stronger finish.
The story was phenomenal, the world, atmosphere, etc was fantastic
Though I prefer Rapture and Ryan, Infinite was as close to catching lightening in a bottle the second time as anyone could realistically hope for.
MiamiWesker
Member
I feel like everyone that says infinite has bad gameplay has no clue how to mess with vigoda and gear combos. You can play huge chunks without firing a shot, just being a flaming pinball of death. You have that ability to ride around roller coster like tracks for amazing maneuverability. I wish most FPSs offered that level of depth to the combat.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Bioshock infinite is an amazing game with great caharacters and story telling, dlc included.
And even if the fighting segments are not its game forte, I found them really fun (apart from the final boss "wave").
Also the cartoony graphics are beautiful and still stand to this day (played the dlc just a few months back).
Sorry you didnt like it OP.
Dont miss next month another thrilling episode of the acclaimed "why I think bioshock inifinite ruined everything!" Only on NeoGAF
And even if the fighting segments are not its game forte, I found them really fun (apart from the final boss "wave").
Also the cartoony graphics are beautiful and still stand to this day (played the dlc just a few months back).
Sorry you didnt like it OP.
Dont miss next month another thrilling episode of the acclaimed "why I think bioshock inifinite ruined everything!" Only on NeoGAF
Think you are in the minority here on this one. A lot of people like to say Bioshock 2 had better gameplay, but haven't heard many say the story is better then the first game. I disagree on both, the gameplay changes in 2 only serve to draw out the game and make combat more mind numbing. Big Sisters, harvesting extra adam,the research points etc. Bioshock is a great game with terrible shooting IMO. I found myself just hitting everything with a wrench and the health regain power just to power through enemies. Bioshock 2 doesn't have nearly as engaging a story or pacing so getting through the crap combat had no payoff. Infinite at least had a cool story and new environment.
For me both Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite were extremely memorable. Great Setting, great characters, fun gameplay, and a fantastic setting. I feel this game fell victim to "overhype". The launch delay didn't helo either. Regardless, I definitely don't think it's, terrible, as OP says. Also, the story DLC was awesome. I think the Bioshock series has some of the best story DLC in the business.
CecilRousso
Member
Well, a lot of the complaints about the game are about the gameplay.
The gameplay was underwhelming. Especially as a Shock game.
The story, the setting, the amount of subtext? Top notch production.
I think that about settles the two camps. For fans of FPA, like myself, Bioshock Infinite was a beautiful merger of walking sims and big budget bombast. For people who preferred the systemic complexity of previous Irrational outings, Infinite felt like a betrayal.
Still, love it, warts and all.
The story, the setting, the amount of subtext? Top notch production.
I think that about settles the two camps. For fans of FPA, like myself, Bioshock Infinite was a beautiful merger of walking sims and big budget bombast. For people who preferred the systemic complexity of previous Irrational outings, Infinite felt like a betrayal.
Still, love it, warts and all.
Jawmuncher
Member
I'm not the biggest Bioshock fan despite playing them all but I will say infinite to me was a dissapointment. I loved the setting but don't think the game did enough with it. Aside from that I was really disinterested in the story. I can see why others like it though.
Yeah, all the "intellectual" elements of Bioshock have always been pure window dressing, much to its detriment. Neither Bioshock nor Infinite actually say anything interesting about their subject matter.
It could have been amazing if it had fulfilled the original vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_DSfjAdhlU
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I was never that impressed with Bioshock, I had more fun with Bioshock 2 and Infinite is my favorite. However the two weapon limit in infinite was shit