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[Mr.Phoenix]

Of course, they are...Nvidia and AMDchage what they charge because they can see people are willing to pay that much.

Those GPUs don't cost $1000 because they cost $850 to make. Same way that a $1000 phone doesn't even cost $400 to make.

 

[Hydroxy]

L

Of course. Next gen will be all streaming anyway.

Lol people say this every gen and are wrong every gen. This time will no different. PS6 will definitely be your standard console like PS5.

 

[Wildebeest]

Console manufacturers have more negotiating power. Profit margins will probably be razor-thin on 3d accelerator parts, with promises of volume.

 

[kruis]

Of course, they are...Nvidia and AMDchage what they charge because they can see people are willing to pay that much.

Those GPUs don't cost $1000 because they cost $850 to make. Same way that a $1000 phone doesn't even cost $400 to make.

NVIDIA's Operating Margins by Segment (2017-2024)

This chart shows Nvidia's operating margins by segment, across graphics, and computing and networking segments, from Q1 2017 onwards.

businessquant.com

Nvidia's operating margin on graphics card was 54.75%.

 

[AJUMP23]

They want mass market appeal so yes.

 

[LordMuffin]

Oh man, I've seen too many users here are literally itching to be robbed at gunpoint by manufacturers, they're begging for it. It would be really beneficial if these people understood that consoles are marketed to the mass, nobody is nitpicking screenshots all day long in search of a shimmering edge or a reconstruction artifact (basically what this whole forum is about, nowadays). People just want a reasonably priced box you hook to the TV and play hassle-free. The perspective here is so warped is not even funny, like, I've yet to hear someone mention Ray Tracing in real life and we're talking about 4090s barely able to play path traced Cyberpunk at a solid framerate. Graphics are 'good enough' as it is for the vast majority of people, the hyperfocusing on empty technical feats on one side and the alarming incompetence of most devs these days is worrying for those of us who enjoy playing games, not take screenshots.

 

[Killer8]

Consoles (and games) are not more expensive than they were 15 years ago. People just don't understand how inflation works.

Consoles have also been sold at a loss for quite some time because the sales of games and services more than make up for it. That allows them to punch above their weight in terms of price tag.

 

[chessy_08]

I'm going to make a comment, at the risk of everyone pointing their swords at me.

But I think the idea that consoles have to be cheap is absurd. I take cell phones for example, people tend to change a $1,300 iPhone every two 2 years and consoles are supposed to last 5 years and run at 60 fps + 4k + RT.

Launch a console at 1500 dollars that really lasts 5 years and that can be amortized over time.

Problem is weather it's a $500 or $1500 the tech is going to be outdated regardless of price after 5 plus years

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

http://[URL]https://businessquant.com/nvidia-operating-margin-by-segment

[/URL]

Nvidia's operating margin on graphics card was 54.75%.

Exactly my point, thanks. Nvidia is making almost 55% in profit on the GPUs they sell. And that's after taking out production costs and everything ee associated with getting the product market. Meaning a $1000 MSRP GPU costs them around $500 to make, package, ship, and bump their retailers. Meaning the actual manufacturing cost of that $1000 GPU is probably around $380-$420.

To put that into perspective, it means a 4080 GPU actually cost like $500 to make. Peope need to know and think about this before they say things like consoles cant be made for this or that....etc just by going off what PC OEMs are asking people to pay.

In two years, you will be able to make a 4080-specced GPU for under $300. They would charge you $700 for it though.

 

[CrimsonSquall]

I'm going to make a comment, at the risk of everyone pointing their swords at me.

But I think the idea that consoles have to be cheap is absurd. I take cell phones for example, people tend to change a $1,300 iPhone every two 2 years and consoles are supposed to last 5 years and run at 60 fps + 4k + RT.

Launch a console at 1500 dollars that really lasts 5 years and that can be amortized over time.

Mom and dad aren’t buying Timmy a $1500 dollar console.

The only kids getting the newest iPhone were already the parents who were upper middle class or middle class with bad credit and bad life choices.

 

[Knightime_X]

And with all that power of "next-gen hardware" we still haven't seen a single AAA game with the same depth as BOTW.

Hardware power and game design isn't the same.
BOTW would totally have all it does WITH better performance and image quality.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They'll be $600 and you're gonna like it.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Nintendo will save the day, as usual.

Yeah by selling low end hardware.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Hardware power and game design isn't the same.
BOTW would totally have all it does WITH better performance and image quality.

Nope.

With less power, Nintendo has to find alternative ways of standing out from the sheer hardware power of the competition.
That means they have to nurture a culture of creativity and innovation.

They stand out by making games that the competition cannot afford to make.
The competition spends all of their hardware budget on visuals and animations, and they can barely use what's left for dynamic gameplay systems.

Nintendo is playing their cards right.

Yeah by selling affordable hardware.

FTFY

 

[Knightime_X]

Nope.

With less power, Nintendo has to find alternative ways of standing out from the sheer hardware power of the competition.
That means they have to nurture a culture of creativity and innovation.

They stand out by making games that the competition cannot afford to make.
The competition spends all of their hardware budget on visuals and animations, and they can barely use what's left for dynamic gameplay systems.

Nintendo is playing their cards right.


FTFY

Elden ring didn't have problems...
If nintendo doesn't want to do it, the community has no problems doing it for them.

 

[Trogdor1123]

$500 will probably be the price for the 'base' or 'disc-less' console next gen.

This is what I was thinking too. 500 for a base one is totally doable. The ps5 already makes money and if they maintain that approach I could see it working for sure.

 

[ReBurn]

They wouldn't have been $500 this gen without Sony and Microsoft subsidizing them for us.

 

[Spukc]

Since Nvidia and Amd now charge dream prices for graphics cards, are the cheap console prices still possible? The next generation looks very expensive to me.

Or would Sony and Ms not be affected so much because the console parts are sold in bulk? And they have more leeway?

Modern day gpu’s have fuck all to show over a ps4 game called the last of us 2

 

[Jigsaah]

I'm going to make a comment, at the risk of everyone pointing their swords at me.

But I think the idea that consoles have to be cheap is absurd. I take cell phones for example, people tend to change a $1,300 iPhone every two 2 years and consoles are supposed to last 5 years and run at 60 fps + 4k + RT.

Launch a console at 1500 dollars that really lasts 5 years and that can be amortized over time.

$1500 dollars? I think you might be missing the price curve here. If Sony starts using components that cost that much it doesn't necesssarily mean it'll last 5 years.

I think the best way forward is modular consoles. It would be nice if they could figure out a way to make a console that could be upgraded in pieces. Devs love having one SKU to develop for though so that will never happen. But if it could be done in blocks of time...say a console generation, then you upgrade it over the years without needing to buy an entire new console, I'd be down for that. Pipe dreams though.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Elden ring didn't have problems...
If nintendo doesn't want to do it, the community has no problems doing it for them.

Elden Ring was not made by Nintendo's competitors.

 

[Reallink]

Of course, they are...Nvidia and AMDchage what they charge because they can see people are willing to pay that much.

Those GPUs don't cost $1000 because they cost $850 to make. Same way that a $1000 phone doesn't even cost $400 to make.

The costs at these giant tech firms isn't in the materials and production, it's in the armies of "Day in the Life" marketing directors and production managers that earn $250,000+ and spend their days having meetings about sending emails and eating artisanal snacks in the meditation rooms. And I'm not joking or being hyperbolic, anyone who has worked in any kind of corporate environment can attest to 80% of the work force spending the vast majority of their day acting like they're doing something productive. I'm also not joking about having meetings about sending emails, that's seriously what they do.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The costs at these giant tech firms isn't in the materials and production, it's in the armies of "Day in the Life" marketing directors and production managers that earn $250,000+ and spend their days having meetings about sending emails and eating artisanal snacks in the meditation rooms. And I'm not joking or being hyperbolic, anyone who has worked in any kind of corporate environment can attest to 80% of the work force spending the vast majority of their day acting like they're doing something productive. I'm also not joking about having meetings about sending emails, that's seriously what they do.

Of this have no doubt, but thats not our business. Also doesn't change the fact that for the subject matter, if $500`ish consoles are possible, the answer to that is still yes. Because a $500 console actually means $600-$650 worth of at-real-cost BOM hardware. Not bloated costs to pay for these suits you mention.

Its like people don't get that when it comes looking at the cost of consoles, it's better to just look at what it cost for each component that goes into it. Eg. Rather than look at what AMD/Nvidia GPU costs, look at how much it cost to make 320mm2 - 360mm2 APU. PS4 was around $80. PS5 was around $110.

 

[Crayon]

Oh you are basing this off of gpu prices? Nah don't worry about all that. NVidia is gouging because their stuff is the best for multiple uses and amd is taking advantage by jacking their prices up just enough to still be "cheaper".

 

[dano1]

Of course. Next gen will be all streaming anyway.

I believe I’ve heard that before…

 

[simpatico]

I took my 3 kids to the little seasonal hot dog stand last weekend and dropped $70. It's over.

 

[Devilich]

They wouldn't have been $500 this gen without Sony and Microsoft subsidizing them for us.

Doesn't matter, subsidies can't outrun economic reality forever. In the long run we will see consoleprice increases. You can aready notice it in AAA games (80€/$)

 

[Griffon]

I don't expect next gen before 2028. We have plenty of time.

 

[CGNoire]

I'm going to make a comment, at the risk of everyone pointing their swords at me.

But I think the idea that consoles have to be cheap is absurd. I take cell phones for example, people tend to change a $1,300 iPhone every two 2 years and consoles are supposed to last 5 years and run at 60 fps + 4k + RT.

Launch a console at 1500 dollars that really lasts 5 years and that can be amortized over time.

You had me untill that last part. At $1500 gen better last more than 5 years.

 

[yurinka]

The pricing of components, fuel/shipments, inflation etc. keep rising, so I assume the price of the high end consoles will end rising.

In any case, other than the typical console redesign with cheaper components (slim model) I don't see any high end console to be released until late 2027, when I expect Sony to release PS6 and MS (unless they leave the console hardware before, something I think won't happen) the next Xbox.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I think something between 499~599 is probably what will happen. Consoles are a mass product and cannot be too expensive or will not be able to move enough units to be profitable with game sales and services.

 

[NahaNago]

I was expecting consoles to be 599 just because of inflation and that is without the blu ray player.

 

[The artful mincer]

The issue is that $500 isn't going to provide anyone with a meaningful upgrade over what we have now unless we're looking at new consoles 10+ years from now.

I think prices are definitely going up significantly on Pro consoles and/or PS6/the next Xbox.

I would be okay with this

Especially with how long dev cycle's are it make's sense to extend the console's tail so we get more than 1 game a generation.

 

[midnightAI]

Nope.

With less power, Nintendo has to find alternative ways of standing out from the sheer hardware power of the competition.
That means they have to nurture a culture of creativity and innovation.

They stand out by making games that the competition cannot afford to make.
The competition spends all of their hardware budget on visuals and animations, and they can barely use what's left for dynamic gameplay systems.

Nintendo is playing their cards right.

 

[Black_Stride]

Make loses on hardware make money on software.

 

[ReBurn]

Doesn't matter, subsidies can't outrun economic reality forever. In the long run we will see consoleprice increases. You can aready notice it in AAA games (80€/$)

When you factor in economic reality we haven't really been seeing much in the way of increases so far. Using the first PlayStation as an anchor the $299 PS1 launch price equals roughly $500 in 2020 dollars, about the launch price of the disc-based PS5. With the higher than normal inflation over the past 3 years the $299 PS1 is equally to about $575 in 2023 dollars, and we saw Sony and Microsoft adjust PS5 pricing upward in many parts of the world to compensate for.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a higher price tag on future consoles. But relatively speaking, when factoring in economic reality, console prices have remained flat or even fallen over time. The $189 launch price of the Atari 2600 in 1977 is nearly $1,000 in today's money.

 

[mxbison]

Still worth it if you can sell unfinished games for $70 + dlc.

 

[Madserb2023]

If nothing changes then the next consoles will be 600$ to 700$ and that's with a relatively small gen on gen upgrade. What we don't know is whether or not manufacturing of the next consoles/components will move to India from China which will reduce costs. Completely dependent upon on the industrial base of India. We could also see greater competition in the future with micro processor manufacturing as the pull out from Taiwan has already started to some degree. If none of the above occurs expect it to keep going up as with everything else.

 

[FStubbs]

Also people sell their old phone or hand it over to their kids.

Plus there are iPhones under $500.

https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/?af...xid__&cid=aos-us-kwgo-iphone--slid---product-

 

[dezzy8]

I'm going to make a comment, at the risk of everyone pointing their swords at me.

But I think the idea that consoles have to be cheap is absurd. I take cell phones for example, people tend to change a $1,300 iPhone every two 2 years and consoles are supposed to last 5 years and run at 60 fps + 4k + RT.

Launch a console at 1500 dollars that really lasts 5 years and that can be amortized over time.

The thing with that comparison is that most of us don't pay 1500 dollars for a cell phone up front. And a cell phone is much more important than a gaming console in the modern person's life.

 

[Sakura]

Of course it is possible. But the leap in performance you will be getting will be smaller. This is already the case, really.
Sony and Microsoft aren't as willing to take significant losses on hardware any more like they used to be, and hardware itself is improving at a slower rate.
If Sony/MS's next console is only 500 dollars, it will likely be relatively underpowered.

There is a question going forward of how much power do we really need, though.

 

[JackMcGunns]

$600 will be the new norm once you factor inflation. The PS1's $300 price tag in 1994 is equivalent to $611 today.

 

[64bitmodels]

But I think the idea that consoles have to be cheap is absurd. I take cell phones for example, people tend to change a $1,300 iPhone every two 2 years and consoles are supposed to last 5 years and run at 60 fps + 4k + RT.

Launch a console at 1500 dollars that really lasts 5 years and that can be amortized over time.

no one will want to buy a 1500 dollar console over a PC in that case

With less power, Nintendo has to find alternative ways of standing out from the sheer hardware power of the competition.

the competition can emulate their games. how the fuck is that standing out when their low hardware power just enables them to get fucked over?

If you have a PC you don't even need to buy a Switch, hell you get games earlier than Switch users do thanks to the crazy 4chan leakers....

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

the competition can emulate their games.

If by "competition" you mean Valve, then no, not legally at least. That's up to the user, not the competition.

how the fuck is that standing out when their low hardware power just enables them to get fucked over?

How does that make them get "fucked over"?

Pokemon sold 20+ million copies regardless.
People that pirate games never had intention to buy the original thing to begin with.

Plus, online features are inaccessible with piracy.
People that want online features will feel compelled to buy a Switch if they like the games.