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News Apple responds to Xbox Project xCloud absence, citing iOS policy | Windows Central

Bernkastel

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"The App Store was created to be a safe and trusted place for customers to discover and download apps, and a great business opportunity for all developers," an Apple representative stated. "Before they go on our store, all apps are reviewed against the same set of guidelines that are intended to protect customers and provide a fair and level playing field to developers."
"Our customers enjoy great apps and games from millions of developers, and gaming services can absolutely launch on the App Store as long as they follow the same set of guidelines applicable to all developers, including submitting games individually for review, and appearing in charts and search. In addition to the App Store, developers can choose to reach all iPhone and iPad users over the web through Safari and other browsers on the App Store."
 

jshackles

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Apple is 100% in the wrong here

As a streaming platform (viewer) there is nothing running on the XCloud app that could alter what's running on your phone any differently from game to game. They're just trying to put up bureaucratic roadblocks and call it "safety".
 

-Arcadia-

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As much as I enjoy Apple products, I see 100% why we don't ever want them getting too popular.

This is just sheer, obnoxious autism. Submitting every single Xbox One game from 2013?

They've passed ESRB ratings certification. The games are streamed and have no effect on local hardware. What exactly is the problem?
 

Nikana

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As much as I enjoy Apple products, I see 100% why we don't ever want them getting too popular.

This is just sheer, obnoxious autism. Submitting every single Xbox One game from 2013?

They've passed ESRB ratings certification. The games are streamed and have no effect on local hardware. What exactly is the problem?
The problem is there isn't a problem so they have to create a problem to address that's there's a problem about their being no problem
 
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jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
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What exactly is the problem?
The actual problem is that customers would be able to go to the Xbox home page or Console store app and purchase new Xbox games, which would then be playable on your precious iPhone. Apple doesn't get it's 30% cut. They would prefer you to continue buying iPhone-playable games on the app store so they can continue making money.
 

nowhat

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Apple is 100% in the wrong here

As a streaming platform (viewer) there is nothing running on the XCloud app that could alter what's running on your phone any differently from game to game. They're just trying to put up bureaucratic roadblocks and call it "safety".
True. If they were concerned about "safety", surely they'd vet all the content available on Netflix/Prime/etc beforehand, right? Which they certainly do not.
 

-Arcadia-

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Is there any way Microsoft could do this through a web app instead? I'm aware it's a bit more demanding than Netflix, but it seems... possible?
 
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DarthFeanor

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Everybody wants a piece of that pie.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple was asking for a cut in sales made inside the app.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
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Is there any way Microsoft could do this through a web app instead? I'm aware it's a bit more demanding than Netflix, but it seems... possible?
The XCloud app is going to need exclusive access to things like the OS input APIs. Your browser would be an intermediary step as middleware to these APIs, which is going to add a fairly significant amount of input latency.

Also, the app will ideally have access to things like the storage APIs for caching, or bluetooth APIs for controllers and peripherals. Without these things, it would make the app a pretty sub-par experience and Microsoft is going for quality here to prove that it can outclass stuff like Stadia.
 
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nowhat

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Is there any way Microsoft could do this through a web app instead? I'm aware it's a bit more demanding than Netflix, but it seems... possible?
Can't you run Stadia on a Chrome browser? Honest question, haven't looked into it, but I seem to recall that being the case.

However, this doesn't necessarily mean you could do the same on mobile Safari, the rendering engine is different (while sharing common ancestry, Blink and WebKit are quite different beasts nowadays).
 
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JeloSWE

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The actual problem is that customers would be able to go to the Xbox home page or Console store app and purchase new Xbox games, which would then be playable on your precious iPhone. Apple doesn't get it's 30% cut. They would prefer you to continue buying iPhone-playable games on the app store so they can continue making money.
This is the real ond only answer.
 
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jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
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I wouldn't be surprised if Apple was asking for a cut in sales made inside the app.
It's actually a fairly complex two-fold problem.

First of all, you can stream owned Xbox or GamePass games with XCloud - if you're a GamePass Ultimate subscriber. So, Apple is going to want 30% of Microsoft's Game Pass revenues. Or at the very least, 30% of the subscription revenue of those subscribers that utilize iOS.

Secondly, you can outright buy non-GamePass Xbox games (presumably from the XCloud app directly) and Apple is going to want 30% of those sales as well.
 
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nowhat

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Secondly, you can outright buy non-GamePass Xbox games (presumably from the XCloud app directly) and Apple is going to want 30% of those sales as well.
Hmm, I wonder if a similar approach would work that Sony uses with their PS app at least on Android? You can access the store, but actually it's just a browser view within the app. This means it's not as slick as using a native app (TBH PS Store is not slick no matter the platform, but I digress), but at the same time, the payment processing is not done by Google so they don't get a cut.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
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How did Steam get around this? Was it ever dissected
1) No subscription service required to utilize the Steam Link app
2) Valve separated and compartmentalized the functionality of various apps: store, streaming, chat, etc.
3) They negotiated with Apple a revenue split for all Steam purchases made through the iOS app

Basically - they bowed to Apple's demands.

EDIT: actually I had old info. They straight up removed the store access from their app.
 
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Nikana

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1) No subscription service required to utilize the Steam Link app
2) Valve separated and compartmentalized the functionality of various apps: store, streaming, chat, etc.
3) They negotiated with Apple a revenue split for all Steam purchases made through the iOS app

Basically - they bowed to Apple's demands.
That's disappointing. I wasn't aware you could make purchases through steam link. Thought it was just a streaming app.
 

Nikana

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Slightly different as that just allows local streaming of your own pc. Took them a year for approval.
Conflicting info here. Someone else said they negotiated a deal to give apple a cut?
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
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Conflicting info here. Someone else said they negotiated a deal to give apple a cut?
Actually, I had bad intel there. Seems like they just straight up removed the Steam store and the ability to purchase games from the Steam Link app and regular Steam app and finally got Apple's blessing.

So my guess is that this boils down to the fact that Microsoft is charging a monthly fee for this service, and Apple is butthurt they won't be getting a cut.
 
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Nikana

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Actually, I had bad intel there. Seems like they just straight up removed the Steam store and the ability to purchase games from the Steam Link app and regular Steam app and finally got Apple's blessing.

So my guess is that this boils down to the fact that Microsoft is charging a monthly fee for this service, and Apple is butthurt they won't be getting a cut.
Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification.

If the sub isn't sold though the app couldn't that be a loop hole?
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
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Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification.

If the sub isn't sold though the app couldn't that be a loop hole?
Sure. If Microsoft / Xbox were a tiny indie company and they had maybe 1,000 subscribers. It'd be against Apple's store TOS, but this sort of stuff goes unnoticed all the time for things that fly under the radar.



Unfortunately, Apple is absolutely going to notice a service like XCloud with potentially tens of millions of paying subscribers launching on their platform.
 

Lone Wolf

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Will this make anyone switch? I use an iPhone, but it’s less that I love apple and more that I don’t use any google services beside YouTube. I try my best to avoid them. I’m not really interested in streaming but I would have tried it if it was there as I have game pass ultimate.
 
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Nikana

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Sure. If Microsoft / Xbox were a tiny indie company and they had maybe 1,000 subscribers. It'd be against Apple's store TOS, but this sort of stuff goes unnoticed all the time for things that fly under the radar.



Unfortunately, Apple is absolutely going to notice a service like XCloud with potentially tens of millions of paying subscribers launching on their platform.
I say we just kill apple. Would anyone miss it?
 
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Actually, I had bad intel there. Seems like they just straight up removed the Steam store and the ability to purchase games from the Steam Link app and regular Steam app and finally got Apple's blessing.

So my guess is that this boils down to the fact that Microsoft is charging a monthly fee for this service, and Apple is butthurt they won't be getting a cut.
It's because Steam Link uses hardware you own and control.

Apple also allows remote desktop apps.

But they don't allow these game streaming services hosted in the cloud.

Really it's all about money as they know home streaming doesn't really compete with their handheld gaming revenue but they fear cloud streaming will I guess.
 
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wipeout364

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I may switch back to android based on this, I have been Kind of looking for a reason to get out of apples ecosystem.
 

Cert.in.Death

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Any reason to think Apple wouldn't shut the door if MS wasn't letting them wet their beak?

MS is going to have to pay something on every device they bring their software. But frankly, I would eventually expect Apple to capitulate seeing as they really don't give a shit about gaming in any serious way (like always). There is a defensible basis to argue for content regulation and the oversight responsibility leaving Apple HQ, but it's quite clear that it's a convenient argument to mask the actual motivation.

With all of that out of the way, fuck streaming games.
 
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LordOfChaos

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Do they review every single show and movie on Netflix? Obviously not, a streaming service may of course have titles that aren’t for everyone. This is also what games mean by "gaming experience may change during online play", a simple notice for things that may not be in their control.

Smells of backwards justification of blocking out other gaming services. Shitty.
 

VAVA Mk2

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Any reason to think Apple wouldn't shut the door if MS wasn't letting them wet their beak?

MS is going to have to pay something on every device they bring their software. But frankly, I would eventually expect Apple to capitulate seeing as they really don't give a shit about gaming in any serious way (like always). There is a defensible basis to argue for content regulation and the oversight responsibility leaving Apple HQ, but it's quite clear that it's a convenient argument to mask the actual motivation.

With all of that out of the way, fuck streaming games.
Enjoy your shitty Apple Arcade games!
 
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mejin

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Imagine if Google cock blocked MS on Android too lol

They are the real competition right, Spencer?!
 
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