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[thelastword]

AMD Zen 3 7nm+ Chip Architecture – Zen 2 Refined For Next-Gen Servers and Desktops

The 7nm+ Zen 3 core design has been completed and we can see production commence sometime in 1H of 2020. While Zen 2 was the first processor architecture to be based on the 7nm node, Zen 3 would be based on an evolutionary 7nm+ node which allows for 20% more transistors than Zen 2’s 7nm process. The 7nm+ process node also delivers 10% better efficiency. It is possible that we may not get as significant of a core bump as we got with Zen 2 processors but nevertheless, the added performance uplift would put more pressure on Intel in the server and desktop space.

AMD RDNA 2 7nm+ GPU Architecture – High-End Graphics Lineup With Ray Tracing Support

Moving on to the GPU side, AMD has also revealed that the RNDA 2 GPU architecture is currently in-design and scheduled for launch in 2020. Given that the Zen 3 design has completed and RDNA 2 is still in design, we can say that the CPU launch would be much ahead of the 7nm+ GPUs. We can see a possible CPU launch in mid of 2020 with GPUs arriving in late 2020.

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-3-ryzen-epyc-cpus-and-rdna-2-radeon-rx-gpus-2020-launch/

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I remember..... I told folk, PS5 will be based on 7nm+, both the GPU and CPU way back in the old leak and prediction threads, but why did I say that? Efficiency, more performance at less wattage...….Funny enough, this is what Mark Papermaster is focusing on for Zen 3 and RDNA 2 ( including Raytracing of course) to land in 2020...…..People were still hooked up on Vega's efficiency and performance per watt, but Zen 3 will allow for 20% more transistors and 10% better efficiency, they may even achieve better as they did with Zen 2.....

I look forward to RDNA 2's design and improvements when it's detailed, should be a Zinger of a GPU arch and Uplift over RDNA 1...…Still that's late 2020, so some ways away......In the meantime. AMD should release the 5800X and 5900X before the holidays or early 2020 on RDNA 1...…..To take the battle to the 2080ti...….

 

[ResilientBanana]

You’re killing me......with the fucking....dots....

Awesome if true, though. It does appear that the stars are aligning for this to come into fruition.

 

[Celcius]

Looking forward to seeing more as time goes on and glad to see things on track for AMD.

 

[bitbydeath]

Wasn’t Zen 2 already confirmed?

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Wasn’t Zen 2 already confirmed?

Yes. This is an update to their roadmaps. Zen 2 went out of its design phase early August.

 

[Insane Metal]

I absolutely do not believe they'll use 7nm+ for nextgen consoles. Wayyy too early for that. We should be thankful we're getting 7nm... lol

 

[SonGoku]

I absolutely do not believe they'll use 7nm+ for nextgen consoles. Wayyy too early for that. We should be thankful we're getting 7nm... lol

Only if you are nintendo
Sony and MS always used the latest node available for big chips

If RDNA2 launches in 2020, it means its ready for next gen just like Polaris launched alongside the PS4 PRO

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Only if you are nintendo
Sony and MS always used the latest node available for big chips

If RDNA2 launches in 2020, it means its ready for next gen just like Polaris launched alongside the PS4 PRO

Not necessarily. Xbox One X launched 10 months after Ryzen 1st gen debuted and the X CPU was still largely Jaguar-based.

It’s a shame since even a 1st gen Ryzen would have provided drastic improvements.

 

[SonGoku]

Not necessarily. Xbox One X launched 10 months after Ryzen 1st gen debuted and the X CPU was still largely Jaguar-based.

It’s a shame since even a 1st gen Ryzen would have provided drastic improvements.

Talking of GPUs specifically though

 

[Insane Metal]

Only if you are nintendo
Sony and MS always used the latest node available for big chips

If RDNA2 launches in 2020, it means its ready for next gen just like Polaris launched alongside the PS4 PRO

Let's see

 

[thelastword]

I absolutely do not believe they'll use 7nm+ for nextgen consoles. Wayyy too early for that. We should be thankful we're getting 7nm... lol

Why won't you use a more efficient chip if it's ready? PS4 PRO a Mid Gen console, not a new generation console had Vega Features before Vega debuted....Zen 3 will ship early 2020 and RDNA 2 will be ready late 2020 by October or slightly before...….Everything fits the bill for the PS5's launch...…..Why would you use Zen 2 7nm, when a more efficient 7nm+ will mean less powerdraw and more performance for the console, same for the RDNA chip as that will have some Raytracing hardware as well...….

 

[SlimySnake]

yep makes sense. but i dont know why both sony and amd would tout the ps5 using the 7nm navi. just say 7nm+ if that was the case.

 

[PhoenixTank]

Why won't you use a more efficient chip if it's ready? PS4 PRO a Mid Gen console, not a new generation console had Vega Features before Vega debuted....Zen 3 will ship early 2020 and RDNA 2 will be ready late 2020 by October or slightly before...….Everything fits the bill for the PS5's launch...…..Why would you use Zen 2 7nm, when a more efficient 7nm+ will mean less powerdraw and more performance for the console, same for the RDNA chip as that will have some Raytracing hardware as well...….

N7P/7nm Performance is probably a better fit for the mildly risk averse, IMHO. All depends on timing and capacity, though.

 

[bitbydeath]

Not necessarily. Xbox One X launched 10 months after Ryzen 1st gen debuted and the X CPU was still largely Jaguar-based.

It’s a shame since even a 1st gen Ryzen would have provided drastic improvements.

That was to maintain BC.

 

[CuNi]

Why won't you use a more efficient chip if it's ready? PS4 PRO a Mid Gen console, not a new generation console had Vega Features before Vega debuted....Zen 3 will ship early 2020 and RDNA 2 will be ready late 2020 by October or slightly before...….Everything fits the bill for the PS5's launch...…..Why would you use Zen 2 7nm, when a more efficient 7nm+ will mean less powerdraw and more performance for the console, same for the RDNA chip as that will have some Raytracing hardware as well...….

Because if RDNA2 is only finished by October, there would be no time for QA testing yet alone chip production for the consoles. You need a few months pre production to meet release demand. You can't just smack on a new architecture just like that a day before release.

And having GPU features before the GPU releases in full is not the same as a whole architectural upgrade. Work on these consoles began a while ago as everything is fine tuned for efficiency etc.

I believe we'll be getting RDNA1 and probably a 7nm CPU.

 

[llien]

wccftech, meh.

 

[Lupin3]

I just bought a 3000 series. It's useless now. When this story dropped, I lost like 50 fps in every game. They should not be allowed by law to update the CPU line until I say so.

 

[KlickKlack]

Why won't you use a more efficient chip if it's ready? PS4 PRO a Mid Gen console, not a new generation console had Vega Features before Vega debuted....Zen 3 will ship early 2020 and RDNA 2 will be ready late 2020 by October or slightly before...….Everything fits the bill for the PS5's launch...…..Why would you use Zen 2 7nm, when a more efficient 7nm+ will mean less powerdraw and more performance for the console, same for the RDNA chip as that will have some Raytracing hardware as well...….

and what about cost?
newer node 7nm+ means more cost....
but i understand in your fantasy world all things are free...

 

[MadYarpen]

Such late release of RDNA 2 GPU is diappointing, though. I hoped I'd be able to get one for Cyberpunk

 

[JohnnyFootball]

That was to maintain BC.

BC would have been fine if they used Ryzen.

Afterall, the X used 12GB GDDR5 RAM as opposed to 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM.

If they can get around that limitation for BC, they would have been fine for Ryzen as opposed to Jaguar.

 

[Negotiator]

and what about cost?
newer node 7nm+ means more cost....
but i understand in your fantasy world all things are free...

Says who?

 

[Rolling_Start]

This roadmap in no way proves 7nm+ or Zen 3 for PS5/Scarlett, IMO. Things I think might be worth considering before y'all get too excited:

1) For a start, it takes time to integrate a design into a semi custom product. GPUs are reasonably modular and customisable, hence aspects of Polaris and Vega in PS4Pro and X1X. CPUs are typically more involved though, and more difficult to jump into and fuck around with. PS4Pro and X1X have unchanged CPU cores (the X1X has higher IPC due to latency, bandwidth and L2 cache advantages, but L1 and up appear unchanged).

2) CPUs are also very highly tuned for the manufacturing process on which they are made. As they focus so heavily on latency and clockspeed, as opposed to massive parallelism, they need to be. The designs for PS5 and Scarlett will almost certainly be final already, with early silicon already coming back. Holding out for Zen 3 as it gets tuned for 7nm+ would be a huge risk.

3) Zen 2 means 7nm. But 7nm+ is a different process, likely with quite significant design work to port it. There are currently no signs of any Zen 2 product on 7nm+. Only think listed for 7nm+ so far is Zen 3.

4) 7nm is also supposed to offer a simpler path to 5nm than 7nm+. 5 nm was designed with porting from 7nm in mind, while 7nm+ was primarily about bringing some benefits from EUV early . If the console vendors want to shrink their consoles - and they surely will - 7nm is likely to offer a better path.

5) Capacity: Sony and MS will want to launch with several million consoles between them, with millions more before the end of the year. These are likely to be large chips - far larger than anything yet seen on 7nm - and they'll be starting ramp sometime around June, before even small numbers of high margin Zen 3 or RDNA 2 chip are starting to trickle off the production line.

6) Where are AMD themselves at? Not even a single Zen 2 / RDNA APU. Not even a release date for one. And they're capacity bound with Zen 2 CPUs. Ramp takes time, as does creating APUs even from existing product designs.

TL : DR- I don't think there is time to integrate Zen 3 into PS5/XS designs if they're a SoC as expected. I don't think Sony or MS will be producing big 7nm+ Zen 3 + RDNA2 chips - on the massive scale needed - before AMD are selling even $1000+ server versions in limited numbers. I don't think 7nm+ will be mature to the level needed by the middle of next year for any of that.

Anything's possible of course, and it'd be great to see such advanced kit as the basis for next gen, but if I had to bet it'd be Zen 2, and RDNA 1 with RDNA 2 elements (+ BC stuff). And produced on tried and tested 7nm, with a 5nm shrink maybe in 2022/23.

But we live and learn. We'll see!

 

[thelastword]

TSMC to Begin Mass Production of 5nm Chips in 2020

According to industry sources over at DigiTimes, TSMC will begin mass production of its 5 nm node in March 2020, when companies using the 5 nm PDK can tape out their designs and integrate them into future products. Going into volume production two years after the 7 nm node, 5 nm is trying to put Moore's Law back on track again.

Built using the Extreme Ultra-Violet lithography (also known as EUV), 5 nm node is supposed to utilize existing FinFET transistors along with many improvements in speed, power and density when compared to existing 7 nm node. Speed is supposed to increase by around 15%, while density will improve by as much as 80%, which is excellent news for everyone. Noticeable power reduction is also present and it is now possible to have about 30% reduction in power consumption, while also enjoying additional speed and density improvements that new node brings.

https://www.techpowerup.com/259536/tsmc-to-begin-mass-production-of-5nm-chips-in-2020

 

[Pagusas]

TSMC to Begin Mass Production of 5nm Chips in 2020

According to industry sources over at DigiTimes, TSMC will begin mass production of its 5 nm node in March 2020, when companies using the 5 nm PDK can tape out their designs and integrate them into future products. Going into volume production two years after the 7 nm node, 5 nm is trying to put Moore's Law back on track again.

Built using the Extreme Ultra-Violet lithography (also known as EUV), 5 nm node is supposed to utilize existing FinFET transistors along with many improvements in speed, power and density when compared to existing 7 nm node. Speed is supposed to increase by around 15%, while density will improve by as much as 80%, which is excellent news for everyone. Noticeable power reduction is also present and it is now possible to have about 30% reduction in power consumption, while also enjoying additional speed and density improvements that new node brings.

https://www.techpowerup.com/259536/tsmc-to-begin-mass-production-of-5nm-chips-in-2020

Will be great for mid generation console upgrades.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Is Ryzen 4000......going to be a refresh of Ryzen 3000.......or a new architecture........?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

That was to maintain BC.

and wider wallet compatibility too.

Ryzen would be better for sure, but Jaguar has served us well so far this gen, it's much better than it has ever been on consoles.

Next gen with newer Zen cores will obviously be much more impressive, especially coupled with all that other new tech, I can't wait to see how it turns out!

Is Ryzen 4000......going to be a refresh of Ryzen 3000.......or a new architecture........?

Rougly speaking it goes like that
Zen = Ryzen 1x00
Zen+ = Ryzen 2x00
Zen 2 = Ryzen 3x00
Zen 3 = Ryzen 4x00 (so potentially a "real" refresh)

 

[thelastword]

For Posters asking about Ryzen 4000


Thanks to Zen 3, AMD’s Ryzen 4000 chips could run four threads per core

The next generation of AMD processors could enjoy even more capable multithreaded performance with an improvement to simultaneous multithreading, called SM4. It would effectively give Zen 3-powered CPUs the ability to run four threads per core, double that of existing Zen and Zen 2 CPUs.

AMD’s Ryzen 3000 processors finally caught up with Intel in single-threaded performance, even beating them in some games — especially when you consider value for money. But it’s multithreaded performance has been far more impressive for some time, with the new Ryzen 3000 chips steaming ahead with more cores and threads than anything Intel offers in the mainstream. Ryzen 4000 CPUs, based on the Zen 3 architecture, could extend that lead even further by effectively doubling the number of threads they can handle at any one time.

Zen 3 is AMD’s next-generation CPU architecture and is fully design-complete as of September 2019, meaning it’s finished and ready for sampling before heading into mass production. It will have a number of enhancements, including being produced on an enhanced version of TSMC’s 7nm, process node, called 7nm+, which will enjoy the benefits of extreme ultraviolet lithography. That, plus some other design tweaks, will reportedly deliver around a 10% uplift in overall performance over Zen 2, with a slight increase in clock speeds helping to reach that target.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-zen-3-sm4-four-threads-per-core/