AstroNut325
Member
Remember folks... This cost less than the foreign aid we give to the middle east every year!
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After 20 Years, NASA completes the James Webb telescope. The most powerful ever!
- Thread starter HStallion
- Start date
Shadow Broker
Banned
These questions isn't me being stupid with the whole USA > ALL. I'm not familiar with the EU, Russian, Chinese, and UK works and outer space projects.
Isn't Nasa the closes to putting someone on Mars by 2025 to 2030 and sending probes to different parts of our solar system to collect data? Not to mention things they're looking into.
These questions are not made to be a compitition or snarky. I'm curious.
What projects are the other space agencies working on? What are their goals?
Insane Metal
Member
The future looks bright(er) for astronomy. ALMA, EELT, JWST...
ffejeromdiks
Banned
Hubble launched the same year I was born, and being a kid who was obsessed with space as far back as I could remember it's been quite shocking becoming an adult and seeing that nothing newer ever went up there. So when I first heard about the JWST about 4-5 years ago I was estatic, It seemed so long overdue and now somehow it's only 2 years away, damn.
I can't fathom the discoveries this thing will usher in, if it can really pierce through far enough to see the galactic nursery's forming after the big bang...a lot of books are gonna need to be rewritten lol. I can't wait to see what the next step is, space exploration has taken a back seat for far too long.
I can't fathom the discoveries this thing will usher in, if it can really pierce through far enough to see the galactic nursery's forming after the big bang...a lot of books are gonna need to be rewritten lol. I can't wait to see what the next step is, space exploration has taken a back seat for far too long.
nkarafo
Member
This.
I really hope everything will go as planned. Who knows how many years we will have to wait for a second attempt if anything goes wrong. But if everything go as planned, we will have this operational in the next 2 years.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
I'm incredibly excited for all of the discoveries that will be made by the JWT. I will be anxious as hell on launch day all the way until it unfolds properly.
Jezbollah
Member
I'd imagine they would design/send a tug to bring it closer then back out again once it's repaired. Very expensive but probably a lot easier than sending people all the way out. Heck they could keep the launch vehicle close by with enough juice to bring it back if it doesn't deploy. The extra cost might be worth the insurance.
Jezbollah
Member
The Space Shuttle (the only vehicle with the capability to do it) is retired. They do not have a method of doing this (hell, NASA doesnt have any manned vehicle in use.. at all..) right now.
Even if they did, you would need to double it - when NASA had Hubble servicing missions, they had to put a secondary Space Shuttle on standby just in case the first mission went bad and they had to perform a rescue. Hubble is in an orbit beyond that of the ISS and couldnt use that as a "lifeboat"
This is why you saw scenes of two Space Shuttles on both pads at Launch Complex 39 on Hubble missions:
_and_Endeavour_(STS-400)_on_launch_pads.jpg)
The Space Shuttle (the only vehicle with the capability to do it) is retired. They do not have a method of doing this (hell, NASA doesnt have any manned vehicle in use.. at all..) right now.
Even if they did, you would need to double it - when NASA had Hubble servicing missions, they had to put a secondary Space Shuttle on standby just in case the first mission went bad and they had to perform a rescue. Hubble is in an orbit beyond that of the ISS and couldnt use that as a "lifeboat"
This is why you saw scenes of two Space Shuttles on both pads at Launch Complex 39 on Hubble missions:
Tug it to ISS orbit then and let them service it. Expensive but better than just tossing 10billion and decades worth of work. Might take 2 rockets, one for a tug and the other with the repair parts and team. It's all theoretical though and under the assumption that it could even BE repaired. We lucked out with Hubble
Better just to get it right the first time.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
So I have heard that this type of space hardware uses software that has to be almost a decade old so it has been tested for bugs for years. Is that true?
Biff
Member
Can someone explain how they are able to start a project 20 years ago and now have it surpassed 200 times over by new technology today?
I suppose the physical mirror of this telescope is where all the time and effort went into, then they can just engineer in today's* bleeding edge camera technology to capture what the telescope has brought into focus?
*Today meaning as close to targeted launch time as possible.
I suppose the physical mirror of this telescope is where all the time and effort went into, then they can just engineer in today's* bleeding edge camera technology to capture what the telescope has brought into focus?
*Today meaning as close to targeted launch time as possible.
Camera technology still relies on mirrors very much.
Most fields haven't advanced that much in the last 20 years, it's just IT that has skyrocketed.
State of the art mechanical construction, for example, hasn't advanced anywhere near "200 times"
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Kinda tired of the all the diagrams that don't really show you the real distance because they exaggerate the size of the earth and the moon to make them visible. So I did it myself using one of the most instructive photos of all time -- the Earth and the Moon as seen from the Juno Spacecraft as it sped toward Jupiter. You really get a sense of how far apart they are this way.
Hope you enjoy.
Hope you enjoy.
Jezbollah
Member
The L2 orbit is 1 million miles away from earth.
The ISS orbits at 270 miles above the earth.
This "tug" talk is silly, quite frankly. There is zero capability now, and there wont be for decades.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
(please refer to the diagram i just posted -- will erase any question of what is possible once launched.)
Forerunner
Member
Damn that's far. So if anything goes wrong it's pretty much fucked?
nkarafo
Member
eyeball_kid
Member
Wow, that's very helpful, thanks! It really will be way out there by its lonesome. I really hope there's no bugs or hardware failures.
Apparently it's for temperature stabilization for infrared measurements. By being way out there, the JWST can use its shield to block all light from the Sun, Earth, and Moon.
NurseRedHeart
Member
Actually it should be I hope the public understands the scope of this.
It's so much more advanced and has much more potential than Hubble, I can't wait to see the images it will be able to produce.
If they can get it out there in the first place they can certainly bring it back. It all depends on if they want to spend the money and engineering upfront in order to ensure they can bring it back.(way to undeploy, attachment points for the tug. Spend a little more (relatively speaking) to prevent a doomsday scenario.
Seriously, for something with a 40 year investment (20 pre 20 post launch) it would be downright incompetent to not plan for a retrieval system. They would only have to build the tug if it was necessary.
nkarafo
Member
Thanks.
If SpaceX gets the falcon heavy working you might be able build a spacecraft with some kind of arm/robot to go to L2 and do some fixes. Tugging in back would be insanity (needing the energy to come to stop at L2 and then speed up again to get back to earth is just too much)
Nothing exists at the moment and just designing such a mission and building all the stuff would take more then the ~10 years the telescope has fuel for and thus it would drift off the L2 and you would have to tug it back to the L2 too...
The fuel requirements to stop at L2 and then come back to earth would be too much.
If it takes ~30 days to get to L2 from earth (looking at those pictures). The ship has around 33 000 mph speed that it has to brake down from. And speed up back to roughly the same to get back to earth. The fuel requirements for a Earth -> Stop at Earth-Sun L2 -> Earth would be crazy.
orientalNoodle
Banned
Might be cheaper to just build and launch a second JWST to replace the malfunctioned original.
Turin Turambar
Member
At this point it's better to clarify this telescope will be in fact dedicated to infrared spectrum mostly, that's the whole point of the mission. So putting it far away from heat sources and the big shield it has are very important aspects of it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Hopefully by the time the lifetime usage is up in 10 years, we'll.
1. Have the capability to easily get out to the L2 point for repairs and refueling.
or
2. Have like, 5 more of these things up in space anyway.
1. Have the capability to easily get out to the L2 point for repairs and refueling.
or
2. Have like, 5 more of these things up in space anyway.
Both seems like pipedreams
I'll just stick to hoping it'll pull a Spirit, and keep going after it's time is supposedly up.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Both seems like pipedreams
I'll just stick to hoping it'll pull a Spirit, and keep going after it's time is supposedly up.
Yeah
It's nice to want things, though.
Dark Rider
Member
meh I will get excited when it is deployed and operation and we receive the first picture. For all we know the rocket lifting it to orbit will crash and burn along with it before it is out of the atmosphere.
I've waited for this for SO long if i get on the hype train now my hype will be on critical level for too long before we get anything back from it please understand.
3. Have colonised Mars and gone to Europa.
Always-honest
Banned
Oh fuck, awesome. Stay safe
CrunchyFrog
Member
Well, I hear it's fine if you got the time and the ten to get yourself in
Valkerionseven
Member
Cool beans, hope it works out for them. Also why is all our space stuff covered in aluminum foil?
crazy monkey
Banned
Because you don't send up bleeding edge technology into space where it becomes bleeding edge space junk.
You send up proven technology that's been engineered to last well past the mission timeframe.
Exactly, it's not like commercial electronics that can have a small failure rate and be fine. A small failure rate scraps the mission here.
Baroquemantic
Member
Awesome. Can't wait to see what comes from it in the future.
Me too, here is an interactive map showing each stop the telescope and esp the mirrors went to on its journey to completion.
http://jwst.nasa.gov/mirrormap.html
My father works at Axsys technologies, which is now owned by general dynamics. They specialize in precision machining of optical components and aerospace stuff. I think it went there multiple times for polishing and cold treatment. But it would be cool to see it all in a documentary format.
I would love to see them do another deep field image and see what they come up with this time.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Neat!
It really bums me out that we don't put more time and money into the space program. It's not like we have to make a choice between that and dealing with terrestrial problems. There is more than enough manpower, funds, and attention to go around.
It really bums me out that we don't put more time and money into the space program. It's not like we have to make a choice between that and dealing with terrestrial problems. There is more than enough manpower, funds, and attention to go around.
Was hoping somebody could answer this for me?
How precise will the Jim Webb be with regards to other planets around other stars? How much can we "zoom" in? This pic I believe is what Hubble can show of Jupiter.
Would the Jim Webb be able to capture an image of that clarity of say...one of the new planets we just found in the Alpha Centauri system? If not, how big of a telescope would we need to build in order to get to that point? Would we need like a Death Star sized telescope for something like that? Speaking of which, what are the limits of getting detail like that? If we did build a Death Star sized telescope, how far into space would it be able to get detail like that Jupiter pic?
How precise will the Jim Webb be with regards to other planets around other stars? How much can we "zoom" in? This pic I believe is what Hubble can show of Jupiter.
Would the Jim Webb be able to capture an image of that clarity of say...one of the new planets we just found in the Alpha Centauri system? If not, how big of a telescope would we need to build in order to get to that point? Would we need like a Death Star sized telescope for something like that? Speaking of which, what are the limits of getting detail like that? If we did build a Death Star sized telescope, how far into space would it be able to get detail like that Jupiter pic?
CrunchyFrog
Member
Was hoping somebody could answer this for me?
How precise will the Jim Webb be with regards to other planets around other stars? How much can we "zoom" in? This pic I believe is what Hubble can show of Jupiter.
Would the Jim Webb be able to capture an image of that clarity of say...one of the new planets we just found in the Alpha Centauri system? If not, how big of a telescope would we need to build in order to get to that point? Would we need like a Death Star sized telescope for something like that? Speaking of which, what are the limits of getting detail like that? If we did build a Death Star sized telescope, how far into space would it be able to get detail like that Jupiter pic?
We're still a ways away from extrasolar planet observation, and JWST is still far too small for that kind of stuff though obviously better than hubble and most other telescopes out there. The European Extremely Large Telescope is currently under construction for first light in 2024 and is intended to be our entry into that range of spatial telescopy, but of course that's a lot of time for things to go wrong, budgets to change. There was an Overwhelmingly Large Telescope (its actual scientific name) once proposed, but it's since been cancelled. Wikipedia's got a pretty nice comparison of these and a number of other telescope arrays by raw mirror size. Keep in mind the caveat that while JWST is a good deal smaller than many existing terrestrial telescopes, the fact that it's in space and not having to cut through a few miles of atmosphere makes it's resolving power much, much stronger than any other currently built telescoping in its imaging spectrum. Fun fact, the Arecibo Radio telescope labeled at the very bottom of the image is the telescope featured at the end of Goldeneye.
Was hoping somebody could answer this for me?
How precise will the Jim Webb be with regards to other planets around other stars? How much can we "zoom" in? This pic I believe is what Hubble can show of Jupiter.
Would the Jim Webb be able to capture an image of that clarity of say...one of the new planets we just found in the Alpha Centauri system? If not, how big of a telescope would we need to build in order to get to that point? Would we need like a Death Star sized telescope for something like that? Speaking of which, what are the limits of getting detail like that? If we did build a Death Star sized telescope, how far into space would it be able to get detail like that Jupiter pic?
We cannot even resolve any stars save for the largest, nearest red giants, as anything other than pinpoints.
It'd be incredibly tough. I'd have to do some number crunching to really work it out, but I think a Death Star sized telescope might not be too far off the mark. There are ways to get high resolution images without the need for a massive telescope using multiple, smaller telescopes which are spread out (using a technique called interferometry), but the individual telescopes would have to be positioned with insanely accurate precision (nanometre scale).Was hoping somebody could answer this for me?
How precise will the Jim Webb be with regards to other planets around other stars? How much can we "zoom" in? This pic I believe is what Hubble can show of Jupiter.
Would the Jim Webb be able to capture an image of that clarity of say...one of the new planets we just found in the Alpha Centauri system? If not, how big of a telescope would we need to build in order to get to that point? Would we need like a Death Star sized telescope for something like that? Speaking of which, what are the limits of getting detail like that? If we did build a Death Star sized telescope, how far into space would it be able to get detail like that Jupiter pic?
For reference and comparison, here's the best that Hubble could take of Pluto:
Then, consider this:
- Jupiter is roughly 4-5 AUs* away from us.
- Pluto is roughly 40-50 AUs away from us.
- The closest exoplanet is something like 265000 AUs away from us.
*AU = Astronomical Unit = Distance from the Earth to the Sun
StickSoldier
Member
Ahh this is awesome. I'm fascinated with Space. I wish I could have been in the field some way, Space always gets my imagination going to places that nothing else really does. I feel like it's my home sometimes!
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