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[MIMIC]

Anyone watching/listening to the CNN interview of one of his HS friends?

"Funny", "witty", "well-liked/popular" were just some of the terms used to describe him. None of that "he was on meds/always a loner" kind of stuff.

 

[SSPssp]

So if it's moved back a day then it shifts from
26 and 48
to
3000 and 48

In other words the statistics can support either narrative people want them to.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics, right?

Anyone watching/listening to the CNN interview of one of his HS friends?

"Funny", "witty", "well-liked/popular" were just some of the terms used to describe him. None of that "he was on meds/always a loner" kind of stuff.

Yeah, his coach said he was a great kid. We'll just have to wait for the investigation to find out what happened.

 

[USC-fan]

No reason for the recruiers not be armed.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

No reason for the recruiers not be armed.

First off, horrible use of a double negative.

Second, military personal and civilians are not permited to carry weapons on any military site, Military Police are the only ones allowed to cary arms.

The United States isn't a combat zone, it shouldn't be treated as such.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

The biggest terrorist act in US history was by Islamic extremists though. The smaller number is only because the US has become more vigilant and plots have been foiled.

From the same site:

http://securitydata.newamerica.net/extremists/terror-plots.html

Almost all of them are by Islamic extremists.

"Vigilant"

 

[SSPssp]

First off, horrible use of a double negative.

Second, military personal and civilians are not permited to carry weapons on any military site, Military Police are the only ones allowed to cary arms.

The United States isn't a combat zone, it shouldn't be treated as such.

The first incident happened at a recruitment office though, and Tennessee allows concealed carry so I'm not sure why they weren't armed. Maybe they were armed and didn't have time to shoot back before he drove off.

 

[OctoMan]

Chicago just issued police security to all recruiting stations

 

[Kaladin]

Count on Don Lemon to try and draw a connection between the guy being a MMA fighter and him becoming a terrorist.

The guest immediately shut him down.

 

[Methos#1975]

The first incident happened at a recruitment office though, and Tennessee allows concealed carry so I'm not sure why they weren't armed. Maybe they were armed and didn't have time to shoot back before he drove off.

Doubtful since up until now there really hadn't been a need to be armed, but situations such as this will probably spur a change in SOPs going forward. I would not be surprised if they started to arm recruiters to some degree after this, it will at least be debated.

 

[OctoMan]

The first incident happened at a recruitment office though, and Tennessee allows concealed carry so I'm not sure why they weren't armed. Maybe they were armed and didn't have time to shoot back before he drove off.

I imagine state laws are irrelevant to federal restrictions to their employees.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Chicago just issued police security to all recruiting stations

Wat.

 

[OctoMan]

Wat.

? I don't know what else to say ha. That's what happened.

 

[USC-fan]

First off, horrible use of a double negative.

Second, military personal and civilians are not permited to carry weapons on any military site, Military Police are the only ones allowed to cary arms.

The United States isn't a combat zone, it shouldn't be treated as such.

Nothing you said made any sense.

This is not a military site.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

The first incident happened at a recruitment office though, and Tennessee allows concealed carry so I'm not sure why they weren't armed. Maybe they were armed and didn't have time to shoot back before he drove off.

You're not allowed to have arms inside of that building, it even says so on the door when you walk in.

 

[werks]

Nothing you said made any sense.

This is not a military site.

You are not allowed to concealed carry in uniform. You are not allowed to carry personal weapons in uniform.

12 years in the military and I carried my weapon 24/7 in all 4 deployments. In garrison, the only time I had access to both ammo and weapon was in the range.

 

[SSPssp]

Doubtful since up until now there really hadn't been a need to be armed, but situations such as this will probably spur a change in SOPs going forward. I would not be surprised if they started to arm recruiters to some degree after this, it will at least be debated.

Yeah, there should at least be a debate. Edit: I guess that's not possible unless you have civilian recruiters? I guess there should be security guards if the threat is serious enough.

I imagine state laws are irrelevant to federal restrictions to their employees.

Of course, any employer (McDonalds, etc.) can restrict their employees.

You're not allowed to have arms inside of that building, it even says so on the door when you walk in.

That restriction/warning is standard to a lot of businesses, it doesn't restrict employees. There might be another restriction though. Edit: There is.

You are not allowed to concealed carry in uniform. You are not allowed to carry personal weapons in uniform.

And that's that, thanks!

 

[Abounder]

Public spaces that are high profile targets should have security personnel with body armor and rifles, much like how France protects Paris and Jewish schools. Recruiters themselves don't need weapons and armor but they should have someone alongside them that does.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

*sigh.

I was praying it wasn't a muslim guy.

 

[Jag]

ISIS recruiters sit at their computers and work at converting people 24/7. it's insidious. They don't have to plan the attacks, they just plant the seeds and sit back and watch them go off.

They probably have 100s of people like this in the works. They only need a few to succeed to spread fear at zero cost to themselves.

 

[Walpurgis]

*sigh.

I was praying it wasn't a muslim guy.

I was hoping that he was a white Christian. Too bad. Now it's terrorism.

 

[Lamel]

RIP to the victims. I actually worry for Muslims now since this happened on the verge of eid.

 

[USC-fan]

You are not allowed to concealed carry in uniform. You are not allowed to carry personal weapons in uniform.

12 years in the military and I carried my weapon 24/7 in all 4 deployments. In garrison, the only time I had access to both ammo and weapon was in the range.

I don't know what point you are trying to make. They should have access their service weapon. They should be able to defend themselves off post.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I don't know what point you are trying to make. They should have their service weapon. They should be able to defend themselves off post.

They are recruiting people.

They aren't in a battlefield, there is ZERO reason to have a live weapon with them. You've already been told military policy, what's so hard to understand?

 

[Methos#1975]

Yeah, there should at least be a debate. Edit: I guess that's not possible unless you have civilian recruiters? I guess there should be security guards if the threat is serious enough.



Of course, any employer (McDonalds, etc.) can restrict their employees.



That restriction/warning is standard to a lot of businesses, it doesn't restrict employees. There might be another restriction though. Edit: There is.



And that's that, thanks!

The Military can pretty much supersede any state regulation on fire arms it wants if it sees a operational need. I spent 8 years of my USAF career driving up and now the Highways of ND armed with a MK-19 Grenade Launcher and a M4, in support of operations there. If they find a need for recruiters to be armed, they will be.

 

[USC-fan]

They are recruiting people.

They aren't in a battlefield, there is ZERO reason to have a live weapon with them. You've already been told military policy, what's so hard to understand?

I say today a great reason.

Mp on base yes. This is not on base. You arguing point I'm not making. Never did I say anything about on post carrying a weapon. Base are locked down.

 

[Methos#1975]

You can actually conceal carry in uniform, at least in the USAF you could if you have your Commanders consent and the proper military permits to do so. H.R 218 has granted even greater ability to do so for Military LE components.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I was hoping that he was a white Christian. Too bad. Now it's terrorism.

The saddest part about this is going to be the backlash and the hate stirring from the bigots. (edit) pardon my insensitive remark, the real tragedy is the unnecessary deaths of innocents (edit)

Welp, might as well get this party started. I'll just post a few jumping points for the usual players in these types of threads.

1) Religion/Islam is a disease
2) This is why we need more guns

and for the other side

1) Not all muslims
2) This is why we need less guns

feel free to add

 

[Angelus Errare]

He had mental illness...wait, he's not white, silly me.

 

[USC-fan]

You can actually conceal carry in uniform, at least in the USAF you could if you have your Commanders consent and the proper military permits to do so. H.R 218 has granted even greater ability to do so for Military LE components.

Did some Googling and seem like you can cc while in uniform off base.

But even if it's not allow. It should be after today.

 

[SSPssp]

The Military can pretty much supersede any state regulation on fire arms it wants if it sees a operational need. I spent 8 years of my USAF career driving up and now the Highways of ND armed with a MK-19 Grenade Launcher and a M4, in support of operations there. If they find a need for recruiters to be armed, they will be.

Is it different for different branches of the military then?

Did some Googling and seem like you can cc while in uniform off base.

But even if it's not allow. It should be after today.

That's strange, I guess it depends on the service or the commanding officer maybe?

 

[antonz]

He had mental illness...wait, he's not white, silly me.

Your schtick is getting fucking old. every god damn thread

 

[Kenshin001]

The saddest part about this is going to be the backlash and the hate stirring from the bigots.

Welp, might as well get this party started. I'll just post a few jumping points for the usual players in these types of threads.

1) Religion/Islam is a disease
2) This is why we need more guns

and for the other side

1) Not all muslims
2) This is why we need less guns

feel free to add

The saddest part is four innocent people died because of some religious lunatic.

 

[SSPssp]

The saddest part is four innocent people died because of some religious lunatic.

Yes, sorry for forgetting that. May they rest in peace.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

The saddest part is four innocent people died because of some religious lunatic.

I agree, allow me to edit

 

[Kurdel]

What a horrible news story...

 

[Walpurgis]

The saddest part is four innocent people died because of some religious lunatic.

Do we know that he's religious? The OP doesn't provide much information on the shooter but I did see CNN saying he was arrested for a DUI.

 

[Kurdel]

Do we know that he's religious? The OP doesn't provide much information on the shooter but I did see CNN saying he was arrested for a DUI.

His blog seems to indicate he was pretty religious.

 

[Walpurgis]

His blog seems to indicate he was pretty religious.

How disappointing. I guess the conversation will no longer be about how easy it is to shoot people up in America.

 

[Terra Firma]

His blog seems to indicate he was pretty religious.

That article is so alarmist. Dunya is a buzzword used by terrorists now? So idiotic. There's even a verse of the Qur'an that is mentioned there but the author of that article, not doing his job, fails to even point that out while quoting that excerpt and attributing it to the shooter.

Dunya is the Arabic word for world. It is used by many Muslims and it is found in many languages to refer to the world. To call the word "Dunya" as a signal for radicalization is like calling the word "World" as a signal for radicalization.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

The saddest part about this is going to be the backlash and the hate stirring from the bigots. (edit) pardon my insensitive remark, the real tragedy is the unnecessary deaths of innocents (edit)

Welp, might as well get this party started. I'll just post a few jumping points for the usual players in these types of threads.

1) Religion/Islam is a disease
2) This is why we need more guns

and for the other side

1) Not all muslims
2) This is why we need less guns

feel free to add

What if I believe Islam is often a big, if not the biggest contributing factor in acts like this AND I think societies should have very strict gun legislation?

 

[Kurdel]

That article is so alarmist. Dunya is a buzzword used by terrorists now? So idiotic. There's even a verse of the Qur'an that is mentioned there but the author of that article, not doing his job, fails to even point that out while quoting that excerpt and attributing it to the shooter.

Dunya is the Arabic word for world. It is used by many Muslims and it is found in many languages to refer to the world. To call the word "Dunya" as a signal for radicalization is like calling the word "World" as a signal for radicalization.

What? Dis you even read the article?

Their narrative, based on his social media presence, is that he was tired of the mortal world.

This man was clearly suicidal and depressed, and found confort in extremist view of his religion.

 

[EatinOlives]

This is horrific. My thoughts go out to the families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives today.

I really cannot comprehend how someone who devoted much of his attention and life to a religion designed to be peaceful can corrupt his own brain so much so that he replaces love with murderous hatred.

 

[Terra Firma]

What? Dis you even read the article?

Their narrative, based on his social media presence, is that he was tired of the mortal world.

This man was clearly suicidal and depressed, and found confort in extremist view of his religion.

Yes, I did read the article, but it is saying things like the word "Dunya" is a signal for radicalization (it is not) or that quoting a verse from the Qur'an that talks about the impermanence of the world is somehow an indicator for nihilism.

What IS problematic is his view to basically follow what you think is right, despite what family or scholars say. This is how you end up like he did or how you end up with the IS. The only thing that is a red flag is this:

Brothers and sisters don’t be fooled by your desires, this life is short and bitter and the opportunity to submit to allah may pass you by. Take his word as your light and code and do not let other prisoners, whether they are so called ‘Scholars’ or even your family members, divert you from the truth. If you make the intention to follow allahs way 100 % and put your desires to the side, allah will guide you to what is right.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

What if I believe Islam is often a big, if not the biggest contributing factor in acts like this AND I think societies should have very strict gun legislation?

Thats fine you can mix and match. Believe what you want.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Thats fine you can mix and match. Believe what you want.

Except that's exactly what religious people do when they want to oppress or attack someone and justify it to themselves...

 

[Nightbird]

Geez, not another shooting :/

But where do get people the idea that it was an act of terrorism like it's in the OP?

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Except that's exactly what religious people do when they want to oppress or attack someone and justify it to themselves...

I agree, whole heartedly.

And not just religious people, but anybody with ill intent.

Be it bigots, extremists or whomever.

Edit:

See Charleston and sandy hook for what I mean, domestic terrorism that wasn't instigated by Islam/religion

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I'm curious, what makes Hinduism a violent and misogynistic religion?

Their actions and what they believe in? Just like any other religion...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India

http://www.indianexponent.com/2014/10/meet-manu-the-pioneer-of-the-hindu-misogyny.html
http://nirmukta.com/2011/08/27/the-status-of-women-as-depicted-by-manu-in-the-manusmriti/

 

[soulassssns]

If this is a Naval Base any gun control arguments are a bit null, though.

It's a military base. They're guns everywhere.

That is untrue. Other than police (see Security) there are no other personnel with weapons. Don't believe everything Hollywood depicts in films.

 

[soulassssns]

First off, horrible use of a double negative.

Second, military personal and civilians are not permited to carry weapons on any military site, Military Police are the only ones allowed to cary arms.

The United States isn't a combat zone, it shouldn't be treated as such.

The only exception to that rule is non police personnel who stand weapons security watches. I.e Aviation Ordnancemen and Gunnersmates at Naval Munitions Command Detachments. I carried a loaded 9mm, M16, 12guage while on watch and even stood watch with M60's but that was during 9/11.