Support NeoGAF

[RedVIper]

"or Spanish origin. "

Are the portuguese minorities now lol? I'm pretty sure they're 95% white.

 

[lock2k]

"or Spanish origin. "

Are the portuguese minorities now lol? I'm pretty sure they're 95% white.

Yeah, exactly. That's precisely where I fit in.

I don't know if I'm latino or white (Italian/Portuguese family)

Where the fuck would I fit in this?

 

[hariseldon]

Capitalism is wonderful. Over time, capitalism will tend to sink businesses guided by your vacuous irrationality. It's a wonderful self-correcting mechanism.
Poetic justice will be served.

If the market is allowed to function this is true but sadly there are some issues with this.

1. Market value of a thing can be distorted by risk of litigation. So if a company being meritocratic makes money from its product, it still might lose overall due to litigation and a legal system that favours the mad.
2. If the big corporations will only work with the woke, they can close the channels through which business may be done and choke off the non-woke before they can truly succeed.
3. With brainwashing assholes getting them while they’re young you may find the consumer base ceases to care for quality.

 

[llien]

But for women, the recruitment process takes the piss, as the moment a woman applies for a job in a male-dominated field, they'll be given an interview almost every single time just to see "if they are hot"...

FFS 70%+ of HR are female, 100% of HRs in large Western companies are after improving "diversity" stats.

 

[The Alien]

I thought we didnt have genders anymore.

Silly cis white male.
Did you forget to check your privilege?
There are infinite genders.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Diversity hiring is one of the dumbest ideas to ever get shit out of the skull of a human being.

- Is the person qualified?
- Can the person physically/mentally do the required work?
- Is the person a good fit with the established team?

That is literally all that matters.

 

[B-universe]

If the market is allowed to function this is true but sadly there are some issues with this.

1. Market value of a thing can be distorted by risk of litigation. So if a company being meritocratic makes money from its product, it still might lose overall due to litigation and a legal system that favours the mad.
2. If the big corporations will only work with the woke, they can close the channels through which business may be done and choke off the non-woke before they can truly succeed.
3. With brainwashing assholes getting them while they’re young you may find the consumer base ceases to care for quality.

Good points.

I first heard of the concept of Diversity Bureaucracy from Lindsay Shepard. She was talking about academic departments, but it applies to HR departments just as well. For example, YouTube CEO has referred to their "Diversity teams" as having the explicit mandate to hire on the basis of ethnicity, etc.

So when you pay someone to preform a task, such as hire on the basis of Diversity criteria, you can reasonably count on them following through. If the alleged problem did not exist, the position would become obsolete and they'd lose their job. So it's in their interest to look at the world and find a problem that needs to be fixed.

When the government passes legislation that dictates quotas in all publicly listed companies the government is de facto helping to establish a bureaucracy which eschews market feedback and whose direct interest is to proclaim the problem exists, This bureaucracy is not rewarded according to any market metric, but by how closely they implement these guidelines.

This is not capitalism.
It's a distortion of it.

 

[lock2k]

I also don't understand the woke mentality.

I mean...

If you cut your dick off or wear a wig = you're a woman.

If you paint your face black = you're a bigot.

Why can't be transracers if there are transgenders?

We could also have transagers, people who pretend to be babies (they existe, but aren't taken seriously).

So the whole diversity thing is fucking bollocks. Really.

 

[LeVictorien]

Isn't this to help diversifying a product that influences perception, culture and representation? I mean, if all you have on tv and medias are white men would you think it's because the world is composed of only white men? Ofc not. But if mostly white men are creating these things why blame them for creating stuff that resembles them? That's the reason diversity is still important imo. I think if minorities and women want to be more represented they need to create things too. But how can they if companies are reluctant to employ them favoring mostly the same demographic.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This guy's a scammer though, and an asshole

His videos are hilarious and pretty insightful at times, though.

He basically went and rerouted a bunch of people from a competitor / business colleague to their site by using a similar URL. His knowledge and teaching methods are apparently just mediocre, and the refund policy is shady in a way you have to prove why you did not like the product. He talks a lot of game, but a lot of people started noticing how he is just a run of the mill product peddler. You can see on his info he is EX Everything , so either he sucks, or teams just hate him

I wouldn't call it a "scam," what he did, but he certainly employed some dirty business practices. If you just stick to his videos, there's no harm, though. Don't buy shit from influencers on the Internet. Ever.

 

[BusierDonkey]

We could also have transagers, people who pretend to be babies (they existe, but aren't taken seriously).

Sadly, what you said there will soon be false and we'll go from "Bake my cake bigot!" and recently "wax my balls bigot!" to "change my diaper bigot!"

Luckily, evolution exists and most of these people will breed themselves out of existence.

Isn't this to help diversifying a product that influences perception, culture and representation? I mean, if all you have on tv and medias are white men would you think it's because the world is composed of only white men? Ofc not. But if mostly white men are creating these things why blame them for creating stuff that resembles them? That's the reason diversity is still important imo. I think if minorities and women want to be more represented they need to create things too. But how can they if companies are reluctant to employ them favoring mostly the same demographic.

This isn't a rant directed specifically at you, I realise you're just discussing a point, but it is a point I read often and it's a point I think is wrong at it's core.

Nobody is favoring white people, the fact of the matter is in North America, most of the people qualified for the positions that need to be filled happen to be white. I'm sure if I open a shop in Norway tomorrow I'm going to get a lot of white people applying. If I open in Japan, I'll get Japanese people applying. It's not favoritism, it's basic math. If the city your business is located in consists of mostly white people in a country with mostly white people, it should stand to reason you'll end up with a lot of white people applying especially if the field you're in attracts mostly white people which the video game industry absolutely does. If you have to incentivise or change the rules of the industry just to attract non-white people, isn't that a little unfair? If Jimmy goes to school for an applicable degree and racks up a killer resume, shouldn't he have a leg up over Sally who took a gender studies class and a night course on basic programming? Because right now if they both apply, studios are as likely to acknowledge gender as they are actual practical qualifications.

Despite all sharing a lighter skin tone that was dictated by birth, white men do not all have the same mind. Neither do all black people or all asian people. Races aren't a bunch of clones of each other. White men don't only create things that resemble themselves just like a black people don't. If you ask a white person to create a game world based in eastern Russia, they aren't going to populate the world entirely with white Russians because obviously eastern Russia saw a millennia of inter-breeding between it and Asian communities and that needs to be taken into account. If you ask them to create a world around medieval Europe though, they'll probably refrain from making half of the characters black, or at least they used to. After the outrage at Kingdom Come who knows if that will stick. The same can be said for gender. You can't expect to make a game based on WWI and make half the soldiers female without anyone raising an eyebrow. They weren't there and placing them in there does nothing to make the game better. All it serves is to make a guy drinking a soy latte at Starbucks get excited and tweet something stupid while someone outside shits on the sidewalk. The problem these days is that even history needs to be diversified to appease these noisy assclowns, which turns work based on history into fiction.

If you look at the art world, the amount of different ideas stemming from a single "white" demographic is astounding. H.R Giger created the very strange mechanical/biological hybrid art style popularised in the Alien franchise, and will be used in the upcoming Scorn. This didn't stem from his white skin and white privilege, it came from his individual mind. Pablo Picasso founded the Cubist movement. Despite also being white, his art was distinctively different than Gigers art. Rembrandt, Van Gogh, Da Vinci, Warhol, etc all created entire subsets of art differing greatly from each other because despite being "white" they all had individual imagination and thought. If anything can be gleaned from the current diversity and inclusivity focused market, it's that things are less unique and more formulaic than they were before because since people aren't chosen for their talent and imagination anymore, we have a lot of artists that look at other artists work for inspiration, or artists that play it safe and we have our afro-haired black woman all ready for her latest game appearance.

I've known and have interacted with my younger brother almost daily for 40 years, we came from the same sub-par stock and we live in the same city. but what I think and what he thinks are completely different. Put us in separate rooms and give us the same task and guaranteed we'll both come up with a different outcome. This is because despite being similar in so many ways, we are individual people with individual experiences and thoughts. We have different friends, different tastes, different experiences. Skin color and/or tits doesn't make that any different. If you want to make a historically accurate game based in ancient Africa hiring a black man over a white one won't help make the game any better, because he wasn't there either. If you want to build a fictional universe, both any race has the capacity to create something unique. In either case you hire the people that are best suited to researching the history and building the world around that. You look at their portfolio and pick the person that can best deliver what you need to make the game better.

By all means hire people of any sex/race/orientation but don't delete a group from consideration because of race or sex, which is what is happening here. That is the actual definition of racism and sexism.

 

[Yamisan]

Ok grats? Employee people with talent, don't hire women just to increase the women %. If they want the job they need to be able to DO the job.

 

[B-universe]

Isn't this to help diversifying a product that influences perception, culture and representation? I mean, if all you have on tv and medias are white men would you think it's because the world is composed of only white men?

Is this really your take on the current offer? All you "see is white men"?
Regardless, companies can do whatever they want. As a side note, the role of fiction isn't really to depict the real world. Journalism, politics, philosophy, those are much better suited and equipped.

Ofc not. But if mostly white men are creating these things why blame them for creating stuff that resembles them? That's the reason diversity is still important imo. I think if minorities and women want to be more represented they need to create things too. But how can they if companies are reluctant to employ them favoring mostly the same demographic.

Where is the evidence for any of that?

No demographic is owed a full production film starring one of their members. White men aren't awed anything. Women aren't owed anything. Ethnic, sexual or religious majorities or minorities aren't owed a bloody thing.

If someone wants to "represent" this or that group of people, they can invest their own money or persuade companies do it. But it's not a right, not by any stretch of the imagination. They have no claim whatsoever over the money, time, labour and resources of others, including big corporations.

 

[Bonfires Down]

This was a triumph
I'm making a note here; "Huge success"

 

[D.Final]

Diversity hiring is one of the dumbest ideas to ever get shit out of the skull of a human being.

- Is the person qualified?
- Can the person physically/mentally do the required work?
- Is the person a good fit with the established team?

That is literally all that matters.

I fully agree

 

[Teslerum]

I still don't quite get how this "inclusive" hiring is supposed to work.

So you have some perfect candidates for different jobs: They have the right education, skill set, experience, they all come well recommended and during the interview you can tell their personality will fit in well with the team/company.

And yet you don't hire them because of their race and/or gender? Isn't that by definition racist/sexist?

In theory on all things being equal diversity would be the final dealbreaker. Which would be fine enough, because at that point it's 50/50 anyway.

In reality: THIS NEVER FUCKING HAPPENS.

Even if you have multiple candidates that are a perfect fit there will still be differences in their personalities. And at that point you will choose the person that fits your company's current state and team better. You will never, ever decide on *diversity* as a deciding factor UNLESS you're actually making a racist or sexist decision.

Moreover, if you actually hire competently. in a lot of cases you will automatically end up with a more diverse company than all those super *diverse* companys. For the sole reason that you will need people that compliment each other, not just spew the same bullshit.

Diversity Hiring is fake, twisted bullshit like so many things that kind of thinking gets you.