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[In Cold Blood]

This is a pretty interesting talk between Colin Moriarty, Jez Cordon and Rand about the direction of game subscriptions, and consolidation in the industry.

Colin is obviously looking at it from the view that Gamepass is a negative, and that MS using its money to grow in the industry isn't as pure as Sony's.
Jez and Rand of course are pro GP and MS aquisitions.

It's a really well done discussion, no console warring, just a respectful talk about the future of the industry.

 

[GHG]

"mature"

 

[lh032]

 

[acm2000]

as "pure" as sonys? they purchased numerous studios in the 90s/00s and absorbed them to build the teams they have today, MS is playing mega catch up and easiest way when money is no object is to buy big publisher/studio who already has lots of studios under their wing

 

[Bernoulli]

"jizz gordon" "mature"

 

[Danjin44]

Okay……

 

[8BiTw0LF]

 

[In Cold Blood]

It's actually very well done. There's no immature shit, it's just Colin saying what he thinks is wrong with these things, Jez and Rand replying, and it's a really good listen to hear both sides of the debate.
They all got along well, and you will learn some interesting things.

 

[In Cold Blood]

as "pure" as sonys? they purchased numerous studios in the 90s/00s and absorbed them to build the teams they have today, MS is playing mega catch up and easiest way when money is no object is to buy big publisher/studio who already has lots of studios under their wing

I agree with you, I was just saying how Colin views it.
I don't think it will changes anyone's mind, as it's very polarising due to Sony vs MS, but you get to hear how they vindicate their views.

 

[draliko]

I'm not scared about consolidation of the market, I'm scared of Dev times and budgets getting too big, this cause stagnation and risk aversion. I hope ai brings some news and simplification on the workflow, as of now one single fail can destroy a studio.

 

[In Cold Blood]

I'm not scared about consolidation of the market, I'm scared of Dev times and budgets getting too big, this cause stagnation and risk aversion. I hope ai brings some news and simplification on the workflow, as of now one single fail can destroy a studio.

I agree.

 

[poodaddy]

I'm not scared about consolidation of the market, I'm scared of Dev times and budgets getting too big, this cause stagnation and risk aversion. I hope ai brings some news and simplification on the workflow, as of now one single fail can destroy a studio.

I agree.

I'll third this. This is one of many reasons why I'd be fine with something of an industry bubble bursting again to be frank, as I think the industry has grown to the point that it's barely recognizable from what it was 25 years ago, and it's not generally for the better. Development has ballooned to the cost of Marvel movies at this point, and the buying public is fickle enough to completely abandon IP over an aggregate review score in the 70's or 80's. Developers bet everything on the success of their games and gamers still say it's not enough. The industry needs a hard reset back to budget conscious development, smaller teams, more focused development with less feature creep, and less post launch monetization strategies that directly influence game balance and development in a significant manner.

 

[Nonehxc]

'A good mature debate about the future of Game Subscriptions and Consolidations'



NO

Lets keep flinging shit at each other like monkeys on cocaine.

 

[Hudo]

I'm scared of Dev times and budgets getting too big, this cause stagnation and risk aversion.

This. So much fucking this.

Look at fucking GTA 6. It will have taken more than 10 years to get the next entry in one of the biggest video game franchises ever out. And I can guarantee that nothing in the game will justify a long dev time like this. At some point studios have to ask themselves why they make these enormous open-worlds, that require thousands of artists and level designers to create an unbelievable amount of assets, if that open-world doesn't contribute anything to the gameplay that couldn't have been done with a smaller open-world. I don't need an entire state, just give me city and make it good.

While generative neural networks seem the way to go to help with content creation, the problem there is to train them, especially when you want to do something new. There's research going on in that direction with self-supervised learning, few-shot learning or even one-shot learning for adapting to new task domains but it's still all work-in-progress. At least studios now use procedural generation (either as preprocessing or in real-time) to help.

 

[Gojiira]

as "pure" as sonys? they purchased numerous studios in the 90s/00s and absorbed them to build the teams they have today, MS is playing mega catch up and easiest way when money is no object is to buy big publisher/studio who already has lots of studios under their wing

Studios…Publishers…HUGE difference, Sony purchased Studios it worked with, that it had funded etc. MS went after Zenimax literally to stop BETHESDA GOING TO SONY AND OFFERING EXCLUSIVITY…Can you not see the fucking difference? Its not about growing, its about trying to ruin the (better) competition…

Now as for OP, all thats gonna happen is consolidation is going to push each platform to grow beyond their means, Xbox has spent two generations struggling to manage its studios and now they want even more? They will have even more issues going forward. Sony needs to be careful, if they’re smart they’ll purchase Capcom,Kadokawa,Konami,even Tecmo would be a good choice and become the defacto Japanese machine or at least bolster what they have with one or more. If they pursue GaaS only then their handing the keys to MS unless they do something spectacular. But IMO they need Take Two or CDPR or Larian as well as someone like Capcom or Kadokawa, diversify somewhat.

 

[Beechos]

There is nothing "pure" with capitalism. This is just like arguing sports. One team is winning by drafting and developing "home grown" players and the other is trying to win by signing big free agents.

 

[drganon]

I'd rather blow my brains out with a shotgun then listen to Jez and his lackey for 2 hours.

 

[kyoji]

as "pure" as sonys? they purchased numerous studios in the 90s/00s and absorbed them to build the teams they have today, MS is playing mega catch up and easiest way when money is no object is to buy big publisher/studio who already has lots of studios under their wing

How many ips came with sony studio purchases? As opposed to microsofts? Get back with me on your findings and stop the false equivalency. Buying studios is fine no one said it wasnt. But one of these 2 companys is clearly IP farming and the other is not.

The vast majority of sonys mega franchises came in house after purchase, can u say the same for xbox?

 

[Sanepar]

Colin Moriarty, Jez Cordon lol

 

[SmokedMeat]

How many ips came with sony studio purchases? As opposed to microsofts? Get back with me on your findings and stop the false equivalency. Buying studios is fine no one said it wasnt. But one of these 2 companys is clearly IP farming and the other is not.

The vast majority of sonys mega franchises came in house after purchase, can u say the same for xbox?

Buying studios in the ‘90s versus buying studios over twenty years later.

Obviously there’s going to be ip included. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise.

 

[StueyDuck]

There is nothing mature or logical about these people...

They have barely left their moms basement. I'd be shocked if they knew how to wipe their own arses

 

[Rhazkul]

I think the word you meant was "civil" debate because there is nothing "mature" about talking video games.

 

[kyoji]

Buying studios in the ‘90s versus buying studios over twenty years later.

Obviously there’s going to be ip included. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise.

Man what are u talking about? Most of sonys external studio purchases came in the 2000s. Stop making excuses. Even still they werent targeting ips that grew to popularity on multiple platforms.

 

[Clear]

Has the rise of streaming services improved the general quality of movies and TV ?

From my perspective, I'd say the reverse is true. That everything is down quality-wise.

 

[Punished Miku]

they werent targeting ips that grew to popularity on multiple platforms.

They target that constantly with third party exclusivity deals. When you're in the lead it's a lot more financially viable to do it that way. It's pretty much the cornerstone of Sony's entire strategy. Sony 1st party didn't really develop into anything 1st class until late PS3 era. Took a long time.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Man what are u talking about? Most of sonys external studio purchases came in the 2000s. Stop making excuses. Even still they werent targeting ips that grew to popularity on multiple platforms.

They bought them in the ‘90s too. How do you think they had such a strong launch? Psygnosis was a very strong purchase for them, and a rather big studio pumping out multi-platform games.
I think you’re the one making excuses, to try and paint your team as the good guys and the other team as the villains.

There are no good guys here. One just did it earlier than the other.

 

[Embearded]

Some people can't really understand the difference between buying studios and buying publishers.

When you buy a studio that doesn't own any IP, besides the equipment they might have, what you are really buing is the talent and the know how. You can lose that anytime to a competitor who offers a better deal.

Buying a publisher means you are getting IP rights and the strategy here is clear. It is done to remove the IP from your competitors platform.

Denying that makes you either a fanboy or extremely stupid.

MS should have invested in new studios, talent recruiting and in house training. The amount of money they invested in buying IP could have gone into creating new stuff adn their customers should prefer that instrad of playing the games they would be playing anyway, but in GP.

Microsoft's AAA output the last 10 years is a joke and they only have themselves to blame.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Microsoft couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. They would buy the brewery so that nobody else can have a piss up...

 

[Punished Miku]

When you buy a studio that doesn't own any IP, besides the equipment they might have, what you are really buing is the talent and the know how. You can lose that anytime to a competitor who offers a better deal.

Buying a publisher means you are getting IP rights

Sounds like buying a publisher is way better.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Has the rise of streaming services improved the general quality of movies and TV ?

From my perspective, I'd say the reverse is true. That everything is down quality-wise.

I don’t watch much TV, but I’d say I’ve watched more series and documentaries off streaming services, than I ever did on regular TV.

 

[kuncol02]

They bought them in the ‘90s too. How do you think they had such a strong launch? Psygnosis was a very strong purchase for them, and a rather big studio pumping out multi-platform games.
I think you’re the one making excuses, to try and paint your team as the good guys and the other team as the villains.

There are no good guys here. One just did it earlier than the other.

Considering size of market when Psygnosis was bought I would argue that was purchase bigger than Bethesda.

 

[Pelta88]

Rand has a vid where he's crying over Halo's Craig. Shouting "I don't care" to his audience/stream. I can't take him seriously.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Rand has a vid where he's crying over Halo's Craig. Shouting "I don't care" to his audience/stream. I can't take him seriously.

I need to see this

 

[ReBurn]

One of the reasons there are so many studios to consolidate is due to how the industry works. We see stories all the time of people leaving studios to start new studios. They leave behind IP but take the talent to create new IP with them. It would be surprising if the pattern stopped due to consolidation. Creatives will always tire of big corporate control and strike out on their own.

Studios and publishers will continue to be created. We'll never run out of those. The thing that concerns me is the control over large swaths of IP the conglomerates are amassing. It's turning into the debacle that exists with movies and music where you can't get something you want because the entity that owns the rights decides it's not commercially viable for them to make it available.

 

[The Alien]

The problem with gaming is the same as the movie industry.....its us!!!

Number crunches and pencil pushers are dictating which games get made. Because sequels, remakes and spin-offs are the least financially risky, they will always get made first (and in increasing cases - only)....but we keep buying them and help to stagnate innovation.

You can also thank is shitty gamers who are super critical when looking at blades of grass in a reveal trailer and sinking games before they launch. Then we ask why we don't see anymore gameplay at showcases, etc

 

[Clear]

I don’t watch much TV, but I’d say I’ve watched more series and documentaries off streaming services, than I ever did on regular TV.

Just because you consume more it doesn't follow that the overall product (from all sources) is better!

Its good from the perspective of suppliers -especially commodity volume suppliers- but that's about it.

 

[Embearded]

Sounds like buying a publisher is way better.

Only for the buyer, not the industry or the consumers.

It's not about evil Microsoft or Sony, they both look after their own pockets.
It's about stupid fanboys who are happy their beloved platform holder decided to invest in games they would play anyway, instead of new ones.

 

[Punished Miku]

Only for the buyer, not the industry or the consumers.

It's not about evil Microsoft or Sony, they both look after their own pockets.
It's about stupid fanboys who are happy their beloved platform holder decided to invest in games they would play anyway, instead of new ones.

Timed exclusives, third party exclusives, are all very popular. Always have been.

I actually think Xbox fans have at least a little bit more objective argument about something benefiting them, since they get to save money if the games get added to their subscription. No one saves any money from a third party exclusive at retail. It's just about keeping it off one system, and that's been going on for a long time. Adding games to a sub is a new thing that does give consumers something they didn't have before.

 

[HisExcellency]

I think the word you meant was "civil" debate because there is nothing "mature" about talking video games.

I'll never understand people like you. The video game industry is a billion dollar industry and you can't have a mature conversation about it because it's video games? Can you have a mature conversation about music? Or movies?

 

[cash_longfellow]

“A good mature debate” on Neogaf??

 

[SmokedMeat]

Just because you consume more it doesn't follow that the overall product (from all sources) is better!

Whether it’s better or not is entirely subjective.

 

[Beechos]

Let them buy it up it doesnt always translate to success and from this will be new companies that created to fill the mssing void. I personally feel like alot of the indies and aa's we have are due to the size of these companies. The world will adjust.

 

[Puscifer]

"Pure as Sony's"


Pfftttt LMFAO

 

[Beechos]

There are plenty devs/pubs who release games with "homegrown talent and ip" yet they either suck or don't sell. "Homegrown" doesn't always necessarily means success either.