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[Vagabundo]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

That was nuts.

And fair play to Geraldo for, in some small way, calling out the bullshit.

 

[SKINNER!]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

I'm surprised Geraldo didn't get his head bitten off by Hannity in that segment...subtle xenophobia Hannity?

But hold on...Let me get this straight, some editor in FOX (or whoever. Fuck it, I'll blame it on Murdoch) felt it was necessary to greenlit a 7 minute segment ripping on Russell and went all out to bring in smirking/laughing sea lion pundits instead of actually looking at the bigger picture and discussing the conflict and casualties involved?

EDIT: Random football throw at the end there..?! Fuck this shit.

 

[Idde]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

I gotta say, the Geraldo guy was very reasonable. Despite him willing to die for Israel, he was still very critical of what's happening. Don't think Hannity expected that.

 

[Messofanego]

BBC Video Report - Gaza crisis: Families grieve UN school dead

"We were asleep when the strike happened. What do we have to do with all of this?"

"Shimah was just 5 days old."

 

[Slayer-33]

BBC Video Report - Gaza crisis: Families grieve UN school dead

"We were asleep when the strike happened. What do we have to do with all of this?"

"Shimah was just 5 days old."

I don't know what the fuck we can do... This is SICKENING...

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHERE'S THE FUCKING HUMANITY, THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE.

 

[danwarb]

Yeah I don't think Palestinians are just going to overthrow Hamas, if at all, when all the generators run out of fuel. That's an even bigger humanitarian crisis that'll lash out at all holders of power, including Israel.

And who's going to overthrow Netanyahu and co? Blood thirsty tyrants get full support in times of "war", so they just keep the conflict and bullshit brewing.

 

[Ashes]

I gotta say, the Geraldo guy was very reasonable. Despite him willing to die for Israel, he was still very critical of what's happening. Don't think Hannity expected that.

Agreed. Geraldo called it like he saw it.

The sheer audacity of the rest of the panal to call the world ignorant unawares of their own devaluation of Palestinian life, choosing to focus on rockets raining down on Israel that did little harm and caused people to go into their bunker, their bunker for petes sake, whilst simultaneously, brushing aside 1200 deaths, tonnes of bombs falling on people, children, and babies murdered in their sleep.

Too right, the world is calling it like they are seeing it.

 

[BowieZ]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

Wow. I'm impressed with Geraldo somehow trying to inject some journalistic integrity into that horseshit.

 

[Messofanego]

Gazans risk their lives for bread [VIDEO]

Solar-powered bakery, smart.

 

[Dopus]

What does he mean around 1m into the video when he says most families in Israel are militaristic and Zionist except for hardcore Orthodox Jews? I can understand the military part but are they somehow less Zionist than more moderate Jews?

He's referring to the Haredi Judaism. They oppose the state of Israel.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Palestine is OCCUPIED TERRITORY. There is no such thing as a surrender here.

I never have understood this logic. Explain to me how Israel, with archeological recordings as far back as the 10th century BC showing they were in the land, is now somehow Occupying palestinian territory? It was the land of the Canaan's when Israel first arrived yeah? So are you saying the Palestinians who are there now, are descendants of the Canaans?

 

[Partial Gamification]

I never have understood this logic. Explain to me how Israel, with archeological recordings as far back as the 10th century BC showing they were in the land, is now somehow Occupying palestinian territory? It was the land of the Canaan's when Israel first arrived yeah? So are you saying the Palestinians who are there now, are descendants of the Canaans?

Its Canaanite, and I'm not going to try and answer for Terra Firma.

Here's a brief history of you are interested:
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/History_of_the_Levant.html

 

[True Underdog]

What's the gist of what Geraldo said in the video for those that can't watch it right now?

 

[Dash27]

A lot of people here seem to completely dismiss how bad Hamas is. As horrible and tragic as this loss of life is, I'm not sure how you can't understand why Israel needs to defend itself from this group. Not to mention why it's understandably reluctant to stop short of disarming them. It's not like Israel has a better solution that would achieve the goals of protecting it's citizens without the loss of life on the other side, and just refuse to use it.

I see the list of demands posed by Hamas posted frequently with the suggestion that it is "reasonable".

The election of Hamas was and is a gigantic step backwards for the region. So much so that a 2 state solution is looking less and less possible.

"Arab leaders, viewing Hamas as worse than Israel, stay silent"

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/w...-find-themselves-allied-with-israel.html?_r=1

After the military ouster of the Islamist government in Cairo last year, Egypt has led a new coalition of Arab states — including Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Jordan — that has effectively lined up with Israel in its fight against Hamas, the Islamist movement that controls the Gaza Strip. That, in turn, may have contributed to the failure of the antagonists to reach a negotiated cease-fire even after more than three weeks of bloodshed.

“The Arab states’ loathing and fear of political Islam is so strong that it outweighs their allergy to Benjamin Netanyahu,” the prime minister of Israel, said Aaron David Miller, a scholar at the Wilson Center in Washington and a former Middle East negotiator under several presidents. “I have never seen a situation like it, where you have so many Arab states acquiescing in the death and destruction in Gaza and the pummeling of Hamas. The silence is deafening.”

Although Egypt is traditionally the key go-between in any talks with Hamas — deemed a terrorist group by the United States and Israel — the government in Cairo this time surprised Hamas by publicly proposing a cease-fire agreement that met most of Israel’s demands and none by the Palestinian group. Hamas was tarred as intransigent when it immediately rejected it, and Cairo has continued to insist that its proposal remains the starting point for any further discussions.

 

[captainnapalm]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

There can't be many places in the world where people get to live in a bubble of stupidity, surrounded by other stupid people who don't know what's going on, and go about their day being this stupid and spouting this much horseshit without a care in the world. And on TV no less.

The level of ignorance and hypocrisy is just off the charts. There really are no words for how repulsive it is, considering the gravity of the situation and the level of suffering taking place, for these idiots to be making an utter mockery of it.

 

[danwarb]

It's obvious that any militant resistance is going to be pretty extreme. These are conditions that sustain extremism.

Using that as excuse for this collective punishment is moronic. You don't want peace, you want revenge for predictable resistance to occupation and human rights abuses. When there's a chance of moderating Hamas, it's rebuffed and arrests and humiliations begin to stoke more conflict and justify more collective punishment. It's all about slowly pushing the Palestinians into the ground and taking more land.

 

[TheContact]

I don't think Fox ever got over the fact that some Palestinians cheered on 9/11. Doesn't mean they deserve this

 

[Partial Gamification]

A lot of people here seem to completely dismiss how bad Hamas is. As horrible and tragic as this loss of life is, I'm not sure how you can't understand why Israel needs to defend itself from this group. Not to mention why it's understandably reluctant to stop short of disarming them. It's not like Israel has a better solution that would achieve the goals of protecting it's citizens without the loss of life on the other side, and just refuse to use it.

Saying that Israel is defending itself from HAMAS is bullshit, unless the best defense is a killer offense. You want to stop tunnels into Israel? Protect your boarder, place seismic equipment every 100 meters (in a ringed array) to detect and locate tunnels. You want a ROV "tunnel rat" that can take out-caches and I.D. (postmortem) militants? If Israel wanted to stop this current round of violence, then they would make efforts to end the cycle of violence - Israel is the power-player that will make or continue to break the benevolent outcome. Why did HAMAS start firing rockets again, this time around? You know that one child per hour has died in Gaza?
http://webtv.un.org/watch/jan-elias...ation-in-gaza-press-conference/3705103620001/

I see the list of demands posed by Hamas posted frequently with the suggestion that it is "reasonable".

The election of Hamas was and is a gigantic step backwards for the region. So much so that a 2 state solution is looking less and less possible.

"Arab leaders, viewing Hamas as worse than Israel, stay silent"

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/w...-find-themselves-allied-with-israel.html?_r=1

HAMAS is not reasonable, nor is the disproportionate Israeli response.

[...]
The Palestinian cause was for decades led by the PLO, which Israel regarded as a terrorist outfit and sought to crush until the 1990s, when the PLO dropped its vow to destroy the Jewish state. The PLO's Palestinian rival, Hamas, led by Islamist militants, refused to recognize Israel and vowed to continue "resistance." Hamas now controls Gaza, a crowded, impoverished sliver of land on the Mediterranean from which Israel pulled out troops and settlers in 2005.

When Israel first encountered Islamists in Gaza in the 1970s and '80s, they seemed focused on studying the Quran, not on confrontation with Israel. The Israeli government officially recognized a precursor to Hamas called Mujama Al-Islamiya, registering the group as a charity. It allowed Mujama members to set up an Islamic university and build mosques, clubs and schools. Crucially, Israel often stood aside when the Islamists and their secular left-wing Palestinian rivals battled, sometimes violently, for influence in both Gaza and the West Bank.

"When I look back at the chain of events I think we made a mistake," says David Hacham, who worked in Gaza in the late 1980s and early '90s as an Arab-affairs expert in the Israeli military. "But at the time nobody thought about the possible results."

Israeli officials who served in Gaza disagree on how much their own actions may have contributed to the rise of Hamas. They blame the group's recent ascent on outsiders, primarily Iran. This view is shared by the Israeli government. "Hamas in Gaza was built by Iran as a foundation for power, and is backed through funding, through training and through the provision of advanced weapons," Mr. Olmert said last Saturday. Hamas has denied receiving military assistance from Iran.

Arieh Spitzen, the former head of the Israeli military's Department of Palestinian Affairs, says that even if Israel had tried to stop the Islamists sooner, he doubts it could have done much to curb political Islam, a movement that was spreading across the Muslim world. He says attempts to stop it are akin to trying to change the internal rhythms of nature: "It is like saying: 'I will kill all the mosquitoes.' But then you get even worse insects that will kill you...You break the balance. You kill Hamas you might get al Qaeda."
[...]
In Gaza, Israel hunted down members of Fatah and other secular PLO factions, but it dropped harsh restrictions imposed on Islamic activists by the territory's previous Egyptian rulers. Fatah, set up in 1964, was the backbone of the PLO, which was responsible for hijackings, bombings and other violence against Israel. Arab states in 1974 declared the PLO the "sole legitimate representative" of the Palestinian people world-wide.

The Muslim Brotherhood, led in Gaza by Sheikh Yassin, was free to spread its message openly. In addition to launching various charity projects, Sheikh Yassin collected money to reprint the writings of Sayyid Qutb, an Egyptian member of the Brotherhood who, before his execution by President Nasser, advocated global jihad. He is now seen as one of the founding ideologues of militant political Islam.

Mr. Cohen, who worked at the time for the Israeli government's religious affairs department in Gaza, says he began to hear disturbing reports in the mid-1970s about Sheikh Yassin from traditional Islamic clerics. He says they warned that the sheikh had no formal Islamic training and was ultimately more interested in politics than faith. "They said, 'Keep away from Yassin. He is a big danger,'" recalls Mr. Cohen.

Instead, Israel's military-led administration in Gaza looked favorably on the paraplegic cleric, who set up a wide network of schools, clinics, a library and kindergartens. Sheikh Yassin formed the Islamist group Mujama al-Islamiya, which was officially recognized by Israel as a charity and then, in 1979, as an association. Israel also endorsed the establishment of the Islamic University of Gaza, which it now regards as a hotbed of militancy. The university was one of the first targets hit by Israeli warplanes in the recent war.

Brig. General Yosef Kastel, Gaza's Israeli governor at the time, is too ill to comment, says his wife. But Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who took over as governor in Gaza in late 1979, says he had no illusions about Sheikh Yassin's long-term intentions or the perils of political Islam. As Israel's former military attache in Iran, he'd watched Islamic fervor topple the Shah. However, in Gaza, says Mr. Segev, "our main enemy was Fatah," and the cleric "was still 100% peaceful" towards Israel. Former officials say Israel was also at the time wary of being viewed as an enemy of Islam.

Mr. Segev says he had regular contact with Sheikh Yassin, in part to keep an eye on him. He visited his mosque and met the cleric around a dozen times. It was illegal at the time for Israelis to meet anyone from the PLO. Mr. Segev later arranged for the cleric to be taken to Israel for hospital treatment. "We had no problems with him," he says.

In fact, the cleric and Israel had a shared enemy: secular Palestinian activists. After a failed attempt in Gaza to oust secularists from leadership of the Palestinian Red Crescent, the Muslim version of the Red Cross, Mujama staged a violent demonstration, storming the Red Crescent building. Islamists also attacked shops selling liquor and cinemas. The Israeli military mostly stood on the sidelines.

Mr. Segev says the army didn't want to get involved in Palestinian quarrels but did send soldiers to prevent Islamists from burning down the house of the Red Crescent's secular chief, a socialist who supported the PLO.
[...]
Roni Shaked, a former officer of Shin Bet, Israel's internal security service, and author of a book on Hamas, says Sheikh Yassin and his followers had a long-term perspective whose dangers were not understood at the time. "They worked slowly, slowly, step by step according to the Muslim Brotherhood plan."
[...]
In 1987, several Palestinians were killed in a traffic accident involving an Israeli driver, triggering a wave of protests that became known as the first Intifada, Mr. Yassin and six other Mujama Islamists launched Hamas, or the Islamic Resistance Movement. Hamas's charter, released a year later, is studded with anti-Semitism and declares "jihad its path and death for the cause of Allah its most sublime belief."

Israeli officials, still focused on Fatah and initially unaware of the Hamas charter, continued to maintain contacts with the Gaza Islamists. Mr. Hacham, the military Arab affairs expert, remembers taking one of Hamas's founders, Mahmoud Zahar, to meet Israel's then defense minister, Yitzhak Rabin, as part of regular consultations between Israeli officials and Palestinians not linked to the PLO. Mr. Zahar, the only Hamas founder known to be alive today, is now the group's senior political leader in Gaza.

In 1989, Hamas carried out its first attack on Israel, abducting and killing two soldiers. Israel arrested Sheikh Yassin and sentenced him to life. It later rounded up more than 400 suspected Hamas activists, including Mr. Zahar, and deported them to southern Lebanon. There, they hooked up with Hezbollah, the Iran-backed A-Team of anti-Israeli militancy.

Many of the deportees later returned to Gaza. Hamas built up its arsenal and escalated its attacks, while all along maintaining the social network that underpinned its support in Gaza.

Meanwhile, its enemy, the PLO, dropped its commitment to Israel's destruction and started negotiating a two-state settlement. Hamas accused it of treachery. This accusation found increasing resonance as Israel kept developing settlements on occupied Palestinian land, particularly the West Bank. Though the West Bank had passed to the nominal control of a new Palestinian Authority, it was still dotted with Israeli military checkpoints and a growing number of Israeli settlers.

Unable to uproot a now entrenched Islamist network that had suddenly replaced the PLO as its main foe, Israel tried to decapitate it. It started targeting Hamas leaders. This, too, made no dent in Hamas's support, and sometimes even helped the group. In 1997, for example, Israel's Mossad spy agency tried to poison Hamas's exiled political leader Mr. Mashaal, who was then living in Jordan.
[...]
[2009] In its recent war in Gaza, Israel didn't set the destruction of Hamas as its goal. It limited its stated objectives to halting the Islamists' rocket fire and battering their overall military capacity. At the start of the Israeli operation in December, Defense Minister Ehud Barak told parliament that the goal was "to deal Hamas a severe blow, a blow that will cause it to stop its hostile actions from Gaza at Israeli citizens and soldiers."
[...]
He recalls a 1970s meeting with a traditional Islamic cleric who wanted Israel to stop cooperating with the Muslim Brotherhood followers of Sheikh Yassin: "He told me: 'You are going to have big regrets in 20 or 30 years.' He was right."
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847

Israel played a large part in Hamas' creation, directly and indirectly.

There comes a point where both sides need to accept responsibility for their crimes. There is more than enough fault to go around.

Do you think bombing Gaza bring about a lasting peace? If so, is this the only way for the Israelis to create peace and security?

 

[danwarb]

I don't think Fox ever got over the fact that some Palestinians cheered on 9/11. Doesn't mean they deserve this

They'd already had decades of this supported by the US.

 

[Nibel]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-resupplies-israel-munitions-gaza-offensive-rages-205214960.html
U.S. resupplies Israel with munitions as Gaza offensive rages

Grenades and mortar rounds, huh? Why not giving them tanks and choppers because those kids they are murdering might be resistant against grenades and mortar rounds?

This entire conflict will bite the world in the ass in a couple of years.

 

[Dabookerman]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

Seriously.. What is the most outrageous thing that Hannity has said? Because outside of the obvious hate he's promoting, him saying how Israel aren't doing enough is pretty much him wanting more dead children. Whether these are his actual feelings or just the narrative he's spouting, that level of hate and bullshit would make Goebbels swell with pride.

 

[RefigeKru]

There can't be many places in the world where people get to live in a bubble of stupidity, surrounded by other stupid people who don't know what's going on, and go about their day being this stupid and spouting this much horseshit without a care in the world. And on TV no less.

The level of ignorance and hypocrisy is just off the charts. There really are no words for how repulsive it is, considering the gravity of the situation and the level of suffering taking place, for these idiots to be making an utter mockery of it.

I often find it quite difficult to believe.

What pains me the most is that Fox News is relatively reputable over large stretches of America; it represents the extreme conservative right ring news and obviously has a large enough following that will ingest this nonsensical garbage as gospel.

At times it's difficult to conclude whether it's wilful ignorance or a well crafted veneer. Either way I can't see how it's helping. It's like no one gives a fuck about the 1000+ lain to waste and Israel's grand oppression in the reduction of Palestinian rights...

Ironically from the land of the 'free'. I suppose the same arguments, tactics, PR, and falsification that has been instrumental in the narrative upholding American practices in invasion work just as well covering the crimes of another.

 

[Partial Gamification]

I often find it quite difficult to believe.

What pains me the most is that Fox News is relatively reputable over large stretches of America; it represents the extreme conservative right ring news and obviously has a large enough following that will ingest this nonsensical garbage as gospel.

At times it's difficult to conclude whether it's wilful ignorance or a well crafted veneer. Either way I can't see how it's helping. It's like no one gives a fuck about the 1000+ lain to waste and Israel's grand oppression in the reduction of Palestinian rights...

Ironically from the land of the 'free'. I suppose the same arguments, tactics, PR, and falsification that has been instrumental in the narrative upholding American practices in invasion work just as well covering the crimes of another.

Take note the image has a soldier's boots, rifle, and helmet placed to suggest one who died fighting for (protecting) what he or she believed in. Language has been casually militarized, normalizing the idea these unintentionally manufactured conflicts are justified.

edit: this was just a google-image search, I think the first result.
The image also (intentionally or not) also puts the Red, White, and Blue on the horizon. Its presented as part of: 1) the sunset; darkness is falling and so its time to pay for our freedoms 2) the sunrise; a new paradigm blankets the land of the free.

 

[TheContact]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

I used to not like Russell Brand (always hated Hannity) but he's actually a pretty cool guy

 

[captainnapalm]

I often find it quite difficult to believe.

What pains me the most is that Fox News is relatively reputable over large stretches of America; it represents the extreme conservative right ring news and obviously has a large enough following that will ingest this nonsensical garbage as gospel.

At times it's difficult to conclude whether it's wilful ignorance or a well crafted veneer. Either way I can't see how it's helping. It's like no one gives a fuck about the 1000+ lain to waste and Israel's grand oppression in the reduction of Palestinian rights...

Ironically from the land of the 'free'. I suppose the same arguments, tactics, PR, and falsification that has been instrumental in the narrative upholding American practices in invasion work just as well covering the crimes of another.

I really can't tell if it's an act or just ignorance either, but I'm leaning towards just total ignorance. Obviously Fox has a clear agenda, but it seems to find people to represent them who genuinely buy into their warped world view.

 

[Dash27]

Saying that Israel is defending itself from HAMAS is bullshit, unless the best defense is a killer offense. You want to stop tunnels into Israel? Protect your boarder, place seismic equipment every 100 meters (in a ringed array) to detect and locate tunnels. You want a ROV "tunnel rat" that can take out-caches and I.D. (postmortem) militants? If Israel wanted to stop this current round of violence, then they would make efforts to end the cycle of violence - Israel is the power-player that will make or continue to break the benevolent outcome. Why did HAMAS start firing rockets again, this time around? You know that one child per hour has died in Gaza?
http://webtv.un.org/watch/jan-elias...ation-in-gaza-press-conference/3705103620001/

Hamas has fired over 2500 rockets into Israel in just this latest flare up. It's not even a question. Any nation would defend itself against that. This is the reason why so many officials seem to be repeating themselves when they say Israel has a right to defend itself over and over. The notion that Israel should simply employ yet more defensive measures is what is bullshit.

They've built walls, the iron dome missile defense, countless bomb shelters and bunkers, warning systems and all the rest. Hamas has imported rockets and build offensive tunnels rather than anything defensive.

As to why were all the rockets started again? In response to arrests for the kidnappings. Say what you want about that, even *if* Israel was wrong to do what they did (with the support of the PA by the way) that doesnt justify launching hundreds and now thousands of rockets. And lets not pretend that Hamas doesnt support and praise kidnapping Israelis.

HAMAS is not reasonable, nor is the disproportionate Israeli response.

Israel played a large part in Hamas' creation, directly and indirectly.

There comes a point where both sides need to accept responsibility for their crimes. There is more than enough fault to go around.

Do you think bombing Gaza bring about a lasting peace? If so, is this the only way for the Israelis to create peace and security?

There is no equivalence here. It's not "well they are both bad". And from your own article it seems like the biggest mistake Israel made was staying out of it when factions collided and then backing the wrong people at times. There is no perfect solution.

As for a lasting peace, Hamas was elected and they choose to arm and attack indiscriminately while trying to kidnap Israelis. They know what their actions will result in and they do it anyway. It is simply not rational to believe Israel should just let these rocket attacks go on in perpetuity or until Hamas runs out of them. Rocket attacks which by the way apparently often land in Gaza doing who knows how much damage and taking lives. Tragically, stopping them from doing this in a densely populated city with NO bomb shelters and rockets fired from everywhere results in what we see happening now.

 

[LNBL]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

That Geraldo guy spoke the truth of what he saw and those 2 puppets sitting next to him were placed there to only agree with everything Hannity said. The women says she is VERY afraid of what is happening in Europe because people are being anti-israel and pro-gaza/palestina, stupidest thing i've heard yet today.

Hamas has fired over 2500 rockets into Israel in just this latest flare up. It's not even a question. Any nation would defend itself against that. This is the reason why so many officials seem to be repeating themselves when they say Israel has a right to defend itself over and over. The notion that Israel should simply employ yet more defensive measures is what is bullshit.

They've built walls, the iron dome missile defense, countless bomb shelters and bunkers, warning systems and all the rest. Hamas has imported rockets and build offensive tunnels rather than anything defensive.

As to why were all the rockets started again? In response to arrests for the kidnappings. Say what you want about that, even *if* Israel was wrong to do what they did (with the support of the PA by the way) that doesnt justify launching hundreds and now thousands of rockets. And lets not pretend that Hamas doesnt support and praise kidnapping Israelis.

Man.... You do realize it was not only accusations that HAMAS kidnapped the children? You do realize people were arrested and humiliated in the hundreds, a kid got burned alive and people got evicted from their homes? You cannot do those things and not expect ANY kind of reaction and Israel fully knows the only reaction that Hamas could have is to fire rockets at them. Israel got what it wanted and now it's acting innocent.

 

[theignoramus]

Hannity has a rebuttal. Its filled with personal attacks, as to be expected

"D list actor, better known for failed marriage to Katy Perry..."

what in the fuck is this quack even saying? Hamas will seek to destroy Israel, even by using Palestinian women and children as human shields? Wait...what?! That doesnt make any goddamn sense. And good heavens, you know it's bad Geraldo Rivaldo is the voice of human decency.

 

[captainnapalm]

Hamas has fired over 2500 rockets into Israel in just this latest flare up. It's not even a question. Any nation would defend itself against that. This is the reason why so many officials seem to be repeating themselves when they say Israel has a right to defend itself over and over. The notion that Israel should simply employ yet more defensive measures is what is bullshit.

They've built walls, the iron dome missile defense, countless bomb shelters and bunkers, warning systems and all the rest. Hamas has imported rockets and build offensive tunnels rather than anything defensive.

As to why were all the rockets started again? In response to arrests for the kidnappings. Say what you want about that, even *if* Israel was wrong to do what they did (with the support of the PA by the way) that doesnt justify launching hundreds and now thousands of rockets. And lets not pretend that Hamas doesnt support and praise kidnapping Israelis.

As for a lasting peace, Hamas was elected and they choose to arm and attack indiscriminately while trying to kidnap Israelis. They know what their actions will result in and they do it anyway. It is simply not rational to believe Israel should just let these rocket attacks go on in perpetuity or until Hamas runs out of them. Rocket attacks which by the way apparently often land in Gaza doing who knows how much damage and taking lives. Tragically, stopping them from doing this in a densely populated city with NO bomb shelters and rockets fired from everywhere results in what we see happening now.

The problem with blaming everything on Hamas is they've only been around for a few years. Israel has been oppressing Palestinians for decades. If anything, increased militancy such as you find with Hamas is a direct result of that. I defy any group of people to live under literally generations of oppression and occupation and not turn increasingly violent in response.

What you're doing is the equivalent of discussing apartheid South Africa, if it had turned into a violent stand-off, without making any mention of the fact that black people were being robbed of basic human rights and that was the reason for their attacks.

The responsibility lies with Israel to stop the occupation and give these people the right to self-determination. Then, if Palestinians still respond with nothing but violent attacks, no one will blame Israel for defending itself.

Also, please stop referring to the kidnapped Israelis as somehow re-igniting this decades-old conflict. A) there's no evidence Hamas was responsible for that and b) that incident in itself was probably retribution for two Palestinian teens being shot down in cold blood for no reason by the IDF just prior.

 

[Dash27]

Man.... You do realize it was not only accusations that HAMAS kidnapped the children? You do realize people were arrested and humiliated in the hundreds, a kid got burned alive and people got evicted from their homes? You cannot do those things and not expect ANY kind of reaction and Israel fully knows the only reaction that Hamas could have is to fire rockets at them. Israel got what it wanted and now it's acting innocent.

Even if I take that from the worst perspective in terms of Israels actions... let's say it was hundreds of innocent people and all that, just for the sake of argument. Ignore that Hamas justifies and supports kidnappings and that the arrests were Hamas members. That means what? Launch a hundred Qassams into Israel? That makes sense?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28371966

Hamas and Fatah had been in tortured, on-off negotiations since Hamas' 2006 election victory, with numerous failed or short-lived attempts along the way.

This time, polls suggested that Palestinians believed that the experiment would succeed.

Hamas desperately needed a way out of its increasing isolation. It had lost Syrian and (much of) Iranian support in 2011 when it sided with the uprising against Syrian President Bashar Assad.

The ensuing street protests, which Ismail Haniya, Hamas' prime minister in Gaza since 2007, described pointedly as the beginning of the "third intifada", were partly directed against the PA's security forces.

Thus, when Hamas framed its attacks on Israel as showing solidarity with the West Bank protests, this was in part to undermine Fatah and paint Hamas as the "true" champion of Palestinian unity.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Hamas has fired over 2500 rockets into Israel in just this latest flare up. It's not even a question. Any nation would defend itself against that. This is the reason why so many officials seem to be repeating themselves when they say Israel has a right to defend itself over and over. The notion that Israel should simply employ yet more defensive measures is what is bullshit.

What triggered the recent rocket attacks? Were they firing immediately before Operation brother's Keeper, in the West bank? Arresting hundreds of people, killing people raiding their homes, and continuing the displacement causes more harm to Israeli than it prevents.

They've built walls, the iron dome missile defense, countless bomb shelters and bunkers, warning systems and all the rest. Hamas has imported rockets and build offensive tunnels rather than anything defensive.

The walls could go down hundreds of feet and if they are not monitored, they could be tunneled-through. You don't need to drop bombs or fire artillery to blow up tunnels.

It sounds like you espouse the idea that these current offensive measures, in Protective Edge, are justified. I do not agree.

As to why were all the rockets started again? In response to arrests for the kidnappings. Say what you want about that, even *if* Israel was wrong to do what they did (with the support of the PA by the way) that doesnt justify launching hundreds and now thousands of rockets. And lets not pretend that Hamas doesnt support and praise kidnapping Israelis.

Objectively, Brother's Keeper, was overt hostility having no judicial process. The HAMAS rockets are not then justified, but still can bee seen to have been caused as a predictable response.

There is no equivalence here. It's not "well they are both bad". And from your own article it seems like the biggest mistake Israel made was staying out of it when factions collided and then backing the wrong people at times. There is no perfect solution.

More like they both do fucked up things and there is more than enough blame to go around. Comparing them both for their bad aspects is not an equivalency. As far as I am concerned the IDF and HAMAS are both in the wrong here.

As for a lasting peace, Hamas was elected and they choose to arm and attack indiscriminately while trying to kidnap Israelis. They know what their actions will result in and they do it anyway. It is simply not rational to believe Israel should just let these rocket attacks go on in perpetuity or until Hamas runs out of them. Rocket attacks which by the way apparently often land in Gaza doing who knows how much damage and taking lives. Tragically, stopping them from doing this in a densely populated city with NO bomb shelters and rockets fired from everywhere results in what we see happening now.

Kidnapping Israelis after Brother's Keeper/protective Edge? The US-sponsored peace talks had a relative calm in the region prior to the kidnappings and then the revenge killing.

Could you provide data to support the claim " Rocket attacks which by the way apparently often land in Gaza doing who knows how much damage and taking lives." Compare the data to Israeli strikes in Gaza and include damage, death, and injury.

 

[LNBL]

Even if I take that from the worst perspective in terms of Israels actions... let's say it was hundreds of innocent people and all that, just for the sake of argument. Ignore that Hamas justifies and supports kidnappings and that the arrests were Hamas members. That means what? Launch a hundred Qassams into Israel? That makes sense?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28371966

There is no "Let's say" and just for the sake of argument. These are all facts.

500+ Palestinians were detained
2000+ buildings were raided
8 Palestinians were killed

Netanyahu blurted like a mad man that Hamas was responsible for the kidnappings and that he "unequivocal proof", he also said "Soon this information will be made public". Where is that information? We are several weeks further and the cause of this current conflict is still a mystery and sources have indicated that it was not under Hamas leadership that these teenagers were kidnapped.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

There is no "Let's say" and just for the sake of argument. These are all facts.

500+ Palestinians were detained
2000+ buildings were raided
8 Palestinians were killed

Also note the people arrested (without charge and no due process) were ones freed in the Shalit deal. Isreal went back on the prisoner swap which prompted a Hamas response.

 

[badb0y]

Hamas is not the problem, oppression of a population is the problem. You break Hamas and what happens? Another group will take it's place. As long as you have people in Palestine willing to fight and die for their country, Israel will always have a problem.

 

[danwarb]

Even if I take that from the worst perspective in terms of Israels actions... let's say it was hundreds of innocent people and all that, just for the sake of argument. Ignore that Hamas justifies and supports kidnappings and that the arrests were Hamas members. That means what? Launch a hundred Qassams into Israel? That makes sense?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28371966

You realise that this is in explanation of Hamas joining the Unity government and being forced to moderate somewhat. Israel didn't like that.

 

[LNBL]

Hamas is not the problem, oppression of a population is the problem. You break Hamas and what happens? Another group will take it's place. As long as you have people in Palestine willing to fight and die for their country, Israel will always have a problem.

This conflict has made sure that there will be a new generation of fighters in Gaza, Israel knows exactly what it is doing.

 

[Dash27]

What triggered the recent rocket attacks? Were they firing immediately before Operation brother's Keeper, in the West bank? Arresting hundreds of people, killing people raiding their homes, and continuing the displacement causes more harm to Israeli than it prevents.


The walls could go down hundreds of feet and if they are not monitored, they could be tunneled-through. You don't need to drop bombs or fire artillery to blow up tunnels.

It sounds like you espouse the idea that these current offensive measures, in Protective Edge, are justified. I do not agree.

Objectively, Brother's Keeper, was overt hostility having no judicial process. The HAMAS rockets are not then justified, but still can bee seen to have been caused as a predictable response.


More like they both do fucked up things and there is more than enough blame to go around. Comparing them both for their bad aspects is not an equivalency. As far as I am concerned the IDF and HAMAS are both in the wrong here.


Kidnapping Israelis after Brother's Keeper/protective Edge? The US-sponsored peace talks had a relative calm in the region prior to the kidnappings and then the revenge killing.

Could you provide data to support the claim " Rocket attacks which by the way apparently often land in Gaza doing who knows how much damage and taking lives." Compare the data to Israeli strikes in Gaza and include damage, death, and injury.

Rocket attacks are an ongoing issue, they increased dramatically after the arrests. They apparently never really stop. There's even a wiki page that aggregates reports of the rockets fired:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

The small percentage of rockets hitting Gaza is an IDF claim. I've seen various news reports about it as well so I find it believable.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4363193,00.html

A projectile launched from the Gaza Strip exploded Tuesday evening in the Eshkol Regional Council. No one was hurt and no damage caused.Earlier Tuesday two mortars were fired from Gaza toward Israel, but landed in Palestinian territory without any damage.

It is still unclear whether it was a Qassam rocket or a mortar shell.

But yes again they dramatically increased after Brothers Keeper. See the BBC article I quoted in my previous post for some of the politics behind that.

 

[Dash27]

You realise that this is in explanation of Hamas joining the Unity government and being forced to moderate somewhat. Israel didn't like that.

Nobody, apparently, likes Hamas.

 

[RS4-]

What in the fuck is Dash talking about.

Sounds like something I'd see on Fox news.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

does anyone have a map of all the locations in Gaza that have been hit by Israel?

 

[Lamel]

does anyone have a map of all the locations in Gaza that have been hit by Israel?

Or a better map would be positions that have not been hit at this point.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

Or a better map would be positions that have not been hit at this point.

im thaving a discussion with an israeli friend with htem saying there are plenty of places in gaza that hasn't been hit. i'm curious as to where exactlyu

 

[mario_O]

Just watched this video. Pretty fucked up.

NSFW and Gore http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f74_1406754369#comment_page=5
minute 04:21 is brutal.

 

[Lamel]

im thaving a discussion with an israeli friend with htem saying there are plenty of places in gaza that hasn't been hit. i'm curious as to where exactlyu

Maybe let him know that Gaza is smaller than NYC.

 

[RefigeKru]

Just watched this video. Pretty fucked up.

NSFW and Gore http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f74_1406754369#comment_page=5
minute 04:21 is brutal.

the comments on that video

absolutely mindless

 

[Buzzati]

UNRWA's spokesperson breaks down.

http://www.thejournal.ie/chris-guinness-unrwa-gaza-1597869-Jul2014/?utm_source=twitter_self

edit: Ah. This was posted, as expected.

 

[Partial Gamification]

[...] Rocket attacks which by the way apparently often land in Gaza doing who knows how much damage and taking lives. Tragically, stopping them from doing this in a densely populated city with NO bomb shelters and rockets fired from everywhere results in what we see happening now.

Rocket attacks are an ongoing issue, they increased dramatically after the arrests. They apparently never really stop. There's even a wiki page that aggregates reports of the rockets fired:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

The small percentage of rockets hitting Gaza is an IDF claim. I've seen various news reports about it as well so I find it believable.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4363193,00.html

But yes again they dramatically increased after Brothers Keeper. See the BBC article I quoted in my previous post for some of the politics behind that.

First, "which by the way apparently often land in Gaza" is an inflated claim and not a "small percentage of rockets hitting Gaza is an IDF claim[.]"

Second, the escalation of rocket attacks can be understood as directly provoked by the Israeli heavy-handedness in Brother's Keeper. Also, the investigation of the kidnapping and murder can be seen as an obvious attempt (considering the predictable response and the fact that the kidnapping and murder has not been tied directly to HAMAS but rather more of an organized crime gang) to rile-up hostilities and support for a disproportionate response. How many Israelis died before Protective Edge's ground invasion? Not that such a small number is okay but that it doesn't justify this response that can be seen as completely malicious.

 

[Zaph]

Just watched this video. Pretty fucked up.

NSFW and Gore http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f74_1406754369#comment_page=5
minute 04:21 is brutal.

That's beyond horrific. I don't know how a parent could even live after something like that.

Every member of the Israeli government and IDF should be jailed for war crimes. You don't get to treat people like cattle and bomb them when they start rebelling against said treatment.

 

[Messofanego]

Just watched this video. Pretty fucked up.

NSFW and Gore http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f74_1406754369#comment_page=5
minute 04:21 is brutal.

How people still say Israel has a right to defend themselves and that Hamas are still the only target after seeing something like this is beyond me.

 

[Jonm1010]

How people still say Israel has a right to defend themselves and that Hamas are still the only target after seeing something like this is beyond me.

They have a right to defend themselves, as does any state, however, what has been going on with Gaza for a while now, before even this operation, is not defense. Not at all.