• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Doctor Who: Time Of The Doctor |OT| 11's hour is over now... The clock is striking 12

Status
Not open for further replies.
With a small amount of tweaking Fringe could have fit right in with the Doctor Who universe. The alternate universe was very, very similar to the one that we saw in Doctor Who Season 2. The alt universe on both shows had a slight technological advantage on the regular universe. They both used airships as well.

I'm sure there is some crazed FanFic writer out there that linked Walter Bishop to the cracks in the universe as well.

Fringe is absolutely what Torchwood should have been. I guess my expectations were too high. I expected Torchwood to be something similar to Warren Ellis' Planetary.

Fringe within the Doctor Who world would be stunning. Imagine the sort of stories they could have had with all those alien species. What I love about Fringe is that it's adult without being about sex. People get eviscerated and morphed and all this gory stuff and yet there's never a half naked woman in a metallic bikini. I mean, they even do an episode about a woman who has 'evil syphilis' without it being childish.

But I agree with Mr. Zonerunner about there being some fantastic highs within Torchwood. Even if you don't like Children of Earth's story, the way its told, particularly at time of broadcast, across a week, was fantastically unique.
 
Okay so I managed to get a friend to watch Doctor Who with me and he actually liked it, I did not expect that.

I do need some advice on how we should continue now though. I started with making him watch The Eleventh Hour. Should I just continue now or should I make him go back to the Ninth Doctor? I really feel like the latter would be better if it works out, The Day of The Doctor especially wouldn't be nearly as exciting if you haven't watched the earlier stuff. I'm worried he wouldn't enjoy the Eccleston era however, especially Aliens of London/World War Three and The Long Game would be rough I think.

I suppose we could also continue watching series 5 to ensure he gets hooked and then make him go back? I really don't know.

I highly recommend showing him Blink before the other angel episodes and the library two porter before this last finale (the one that takes place, for River, after she died).

Then, since he will have already seen two of the best Tennant episodes, maybe he'll be into watching more.
 
I highly recommend showing him Blink before the other angel episodes and the library two porter before this last finale (the one that takes place, for River, after she died).

Then, since he will have already seen two of the best Tennant episodes, maybe he'll be into watching more.

If he already liked what he's seen, just give him the "the show was made for under a 3/4 of a million an episode when it first came back and struggled to find its identity for a good 8-10 episodes" pep talk and plunk him in at Series One.
 
DFW doctor who fans or well American Who fans in general I suppose depending on how willing you are to travel. Karen Gillan will be at Dallas sci-fi expo in February.
 
And yet another Strax webvideo: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/strax-field-report-a-sontarans-view-of-christmas-57133.htm, this time discussing Christmas. About as entertaining as all the other ones they did I suppose, but nothing special. You have to wonder how many of these they're going to make. I get that these things are cheap to make, but is he really that popular among the kids, in terms of merchandise or something?

They should really make another full-blown Sontaran episode with Strax at the centre at some point (the Tennant one doesn't count). The guy just seems so into it. Make it his origin story or something, although that may be difficult to do now that Matt is leaving.
 
I highly recommend showing him Blink before the other angel episodes and the library two porter before this last finale (the one that takes place, for River, after she died).

Then, since he will have already seen two of the best Tennant episodes, maybe he'll be into watching more.

If he already liked what he's seen, just give him the "the show was made for under a 3/4 of a million an episode when it first came back and struggled to find its identity for a good 8-10 episodes" pep talk and plunk him in at Series One.

Well he doesn't want to watch individual episodes so I can't do the Blink/Library thing.

I definitely agree with making him go back to series 1, but he couldn't take Victory of the Daleks, we had to skip that one after a few minutes. Same with the Silurian two-parter, in the end we only watched the last few minutes of that one. Beast Below seemed to go fine though, but yeah. I'm not too fond of these episodes either, but series one has Aliens of London/World War Three and The Long Game (yikes). I don't want to turn him off at this point y'know. I'll try to convince him to go back after series 5's finale tho.
 
Well he doesn't want to watch individual episodes so I can't do the Blink/Library thing.

I definitely agree with making him go back to series 1, but he couldn't take Victory of the Daleks, we had to skip that one after a few minutes. Same with the Silurian two-parter, in the end we only watched the last few minutes of that one. Beast Below seemed to go fine though, but yeah. I'm not too fond of these episodes either, but series one has Aliens of London/World War Three and The Long Game (yikes). I don't want to turn him off at this point y'know. I'll try to convince him to go back after series 5's finale tho.

The thing is the production values might be better, but Moffat's Who has just as many shitty stinkers as RTD's did. The Long Game might have some uber cheap sets and an awful CGI monster, but it has more to offer in a real sense than The Beast Below, really, especially when taken with the Series 1 finale in mind. Likewise, Aliens of London/World War Three has some great stuff at the writing level - especially when you consider this was aired at the height of the Iraq war fever - complete with a Tony Blair lookalike Prime Minister getting killed, something I never thought they'd get past the BBC - even if the execution on the Slitheen isn't great and even if Keith Boak chose to direct it as a children's only show.

I'll table another (perhaps harsh) theory: if he can't on occasion sit through things like Victory, or The Hungry Earth, he may as well not bother with Doctor Who at all. It's what the show is - it's notoriously, beautifully inconsistent, and it is so because of its format, because it can go anywhere and do everything. Sometimes building a new world for that week doesn't come off (like The Beast Below), or sometimes that week's supporting cast let the side down (Like, say, Evolution of the Daleks) - it's a part of the structure of the show. It's what makes Doctor Who wonderful and equally a portion of the time can make it cringey. Watching Doctor Who is like being married or something. For better, for worse. It's never good all the time, and in a sense I really hope it never is. But seriously - if he can't sit through those, he's going to hate most of Series 7, which is arguably pretty consistently as rough as those three episodes.

And I'd say that to him, what I just said. He has to resign to slog through a stinker or two a series if he really wants to commit to watching the show. I don't really support the skipping episodes things, as while Doctor Who doesn't rely on week-to-week continuity, I still think skipping in turn makes other episodes worse. Like, I see Series 1 lists saying to skip from 'Rose' to 'Dalek', which in quality stakes is a great idea, but isn't the impact of 'Dalek' reduced if you don't know how the Ninth Doctor usually handles things? The real impact of that episode is in seeing a character who has been a cool customer for 5 episodes utterly lose it and become unrecognisably ugly. Same for how so many S1 lists say to skip 'Father's Day' (which I don't get as I think that episode is magnificent anyway) - if you do, doesn't it reduce the impact of the Pete/alternate universe plot line in Series 2? The episode skipping is a recipe for less enjoyment. Even the worst episodes of Doctor Who have something to offer. Even Fear Her, the gold standard of shittiness, has nice character moments for The Doctor & Rose - they're really written differently in the back few episodes of Series 2 - that then really helps Doomsday do what it aims to do.
 
So I finished of Trial of a Timelord today, dear lord I feel bad for all involved in that. It could have been a really good six parter, but it just went on too freaking long and by the end I Just didn't care anymore. It got way too convoluted and confusing, and about halfway through the 9th episode I just sort of lost focus on it all and just watched it for the sake of it. Colin is trying to do a good job, as is everyone on screen, but when they have a script like that to work with, its had to make something good out it.

Its a real shame Colin got lumped with some of the worst stories Who has ever seen, you can tell he's a great actor, does speeches very well, and could have been easily top 5 doctor material. But the stuff he got stuck with, I just feel bad for him. Also its a shame he never got a decent assistant onscreen, Peri was annoying and Mel was amazingly annoying. I'm not going to say I outright hate all of Colins stuff, Vengance of Varos was ok, The Two Doctors has Troughton in it, and I've yet to see the Dalek episode. Also the first 4 episodes of Trial of a Timelord where ok, but after that the whole thing got kinda convoluted, and the pay off didn't feel like it was worth it.

The 80's was really bad to Who, bad assistants, bad writing, bad stories (for the most part). The actors who played the Doctor where all amazing, but they really didn't have much good to work with. And the biggest heartbreak of it all was that in the last 2 series they were on the right track, an amazing Doctor with McCoy, a fantastic companion in Ace, some of the best stories to come out of 80's Who. But the damage had already been done from 7 years of just bleh and people just didn't care anymore.

I think it might be worth it to dive back into more McCoy stuff soon, I love me some McCoy.
 
The thing is the production values might be better, but Moffat's Who has just as many shitty stinkers as RTD's did. The Long Game might have some uber cheap sets and an awful CGI monster, but it has more to offer in a real sense than The Beast Below, really, especially when taken with the Series 1 finale in mind. Likewise, Aliens of London/World War Three has some great stuff at the writing level - especially when you consider this was aired at the height of the Iraq war fever - complete with a Tony Blair lookalike Prime Minister getting killed, something I never thought they'd get past the BBC - even if the execution on the Slitheen isn't great and even if Keith Boak chose to direct it as a children's only show.

I'll table another (perhaps harsh) theory: if he can't on occasion sit through things like Victory, or The Hungry Earth, he may as well not bother with Doctor Who at all. It's what the show is. I mean, christ, if he can't sit through those, he's going to hate most of Series 7, which is arguably pretty consistently as rough as those three episodes.

To be fair I think he'd have been able to sit through Victory just fine if he hadn't watched two episodes right before that. Plus he thinks the Daleks are absolutely rubbish which doesn't help. (And they really are rubbish in that episode). It's one of these things I'm sure I'll be able to change his mind on.
As for The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood I think it's the fact that it's a two-parter that hurts it the most. It would have been fine if it was one dull episode I think. Series 7 might be about as rough, but at least it changes things up every episode.

I personally quite enjoy the Slitheen episodes on a writing level, but it's the Slitheen themselves that'll make it rough for him. He really isn't used to watching anything but blockbuster Hollywood movies and a two-parter with those monsters is going to be bothering him a lot. As for the long game I really don't remember much of it myself so maybe I'm being way more harsh on it than I should be. I do know that I hated it when I watched it though.

And I very much agree with you on the skipping thing! But there isn't much I can do about that, it was his choice. I do think he'll get better at it, he seems to be getting used to the show now... I hope. And to be fair he he really shouldn't have skipped Victory and he did watch quite a bit of the Silurian two-parter... as in the first and last 15 minutes. I think it should be fine for now.

(Although I do think he should skip Fear Her if he ever gets to that.)
 
Neither do I.

They kind of just turned up suddenly and now they're the Doctor's bezzies

And I'm like 'I don't really care about any of these characters and I haven't been given a reason to care about any of them'

It's kind of like when thingy Buffy's sister turned up in Buffy, only without a (decent) plot explanation to explain why I'd never seen them before (yes I know the Doctor became friends with them while he was in Victorian London or something; but that doesn't give me any emotional investment in them)

I get the feeling that Moffat really likes them, like River Song, but I just can't be bothered with them
 
Shocking confession: I don't like the paternoster gang

Me neither, but kids love 'em, and the actors are three great ambassadors for the show who are cheaper to get to events than the Doctor or Companion, so I can live with it. They'll be a good anchor for Capaldi, too. That said, hope they don't appear next year too heavily. They were already really in it too much this year.
 
Yeah, I'm not wild about them either. I really liked Strax's introduction, I thought that was a nice way to use a classic character. The way Moffat sometimes uses bigger villains (both classic and new) in a cameo role, not as part of the main story, is always exciting to me. Makes the DW-universe seem a bit more coherent. But after their initial moments it just seems forced, in a 'It's two classic series monsters and a victorian lesbian ninja! How can that not be cool!' kind of way. I'm not against the idea, but it's another example of Moffat telling us how awesome/special/important something is instead of letting the characters earn their importance. Also, I don't think most of the jokes involving Strax are that funny. We get it, Sontaran's don't understand humans and love war. It's fun for the kids, I suppose.

They have a couple of moments here and there that I really like, but they never did anything that made me excited about them becoming regular characters. I did like Strax turning into a classic series Sontaran after forgetting the Doctor in the finale of series 7 though.
 
Oh I love the dynamic and again, you can tell Moffat does, too.

During the Name of the Doctor when Jenny is like "I think I've just been murdered" I think I let out an audible "NO".


That said, Jenny needs to shave that upper lip.
 
'Good evening, I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time and this is my wife' is a particular favourite line. Strax always makes me laugh too, not so much the lines (although that 'Thomas Thomas' joke was so terrible it circled around to being magnificent) but how thoroughly the actor throws himself into the sheer stupidity of the role. I'd like to see Vastra eat a few more people though.
 
Question: Why are they called the Paternoster Gang? I feel like I've missed a reference somewhere.

Also: In my home town, (Tucson, AZ) we have a yearly festival in a part of town called Winterhaven, where the neighborhood goes all out on Christmas Decorations. My wife and I went last night and someone had a TARDIS in their yard! There was a sign encouraging people to post photos to #tardishohoho. (I haven't posted my picture yet.)
 
Yeah, i'm in the "no emotional connection" camp with those three. I don't really mind them but I wouldn't feel anything if they never showed up again.
 
Okay, I actually looked it up. Google is my friend. They live on Paternoster Row. It's kind of like the Baker Street Irregulars, or something like that.
 
My main worry about Strax is if he has completely neutered any chance for Sontarans to be a credible enemy for the future. He's very funny, but he's turned the Sontarans, who have genuine potential, into a bit of a joke race.
 
Man I feel dumb for not noticing who wrote the book the boy Clara was looking after was reading before...

ZWzx2Z3.png

Have we found out who gave Clara the Doctor's number yet?
 
They were always a bit of a joke race though.

I quite like them, I'm glad that we see them now and again and hopefully they continue.

I like Vastra and Strax, but Jenny is kind of boring.

She is the weak link, but she's not there to stand as an equal partner in the trio.

She's there to give grounding to an otherwise very effervescent duo, not create needless contrivances for Vastra and Strax to basically be able to do anything in the past (due to their appearances) and allow Vastra to emote off someone romantically because the actress is amazing at it. I'm not saying this to be demeaning to her character or the actress, but that's the point of her. They all work better for her making them a trio. She eases logistical issues for the viewer and writting team, the group being too in your face, and plays to one of the strengths of Vastra's actor.

Also, provides the cheap and delightful thrill of a sexy female space lizard lesbian character.
 
Knowing Moffat we will find out when she leaves.

Maybe it was Clara herself.

I am quite sure it was post-Library River. Or The Moment extending beyond the limits of time and space. Or herself. Or the girl from Blink. Or Martha? It could have been quite a few people actually o_o
 
Martha's a funny one. I'm sure she'd have been back in a UNIT capacity had Moffat a chance to write for her, but obviously he only ever wrote two lines or so for her, and he said he doesn't really feel comfortable writing for her without RTD edits as a result. She's somebody I'd like to see again, though.

I wonder who, if Billie had said no or been busy, would've been The Moment. Liz sadly gone, of course. Guess it would've been Catherine, but as 'Doctor-Donna' Donna.
 
Martha's a funny one. I'm sure she'd have been back in a UNIT capacity had Moffat a chance to write for her, but obviously he only ever wrote two lines or so for her, and he said he doesn't really feel comfortable writing for her without RTD edits as a result. She's somebody I'd like to see again, though.

I wonder who, if Billie had said no or been busy, would've been The Moment. Liz sadly gone, of course. Guess it would've been Catherine, but as 'Doctor-Donna' Donna.

I honestly don't think Donna is iconic enough, or important enough in the context of the show. Maybe it would have been Susan, but that would have been a tricky one as well, age-wise.

They should have just used K9.
 
Perfect opportunity for Adam's return.

We have to wait for the reveal that he's in fact Davros first.

I honestly don't think Donna is iconic enough, or important enough in the context of the show. Maybe it would have been Susan, but that would have been a tricky one as well, age-wise.

They should have just used K9.

Eh, depends on how you view it. In Britain she's still probably the most famous of the new companions due to her work outside the show, even if Billie is the most iconic.
 
Just imagine the reaction if the Moment was Capaldi. Would've been like Clara's intro x 1000.

I'm not ashamed to say I audibly gasped at Clara/Oswin in Asylum. Such a great little secret that really didn't add much to the episode but a brilliant way to introduce a companion.

Capaldi as the Moment might have been a bit too confusing for the average viewer but could've been cool. They definitely need to have more future Doctors appearing in the show 'before their time' though.
 
Oh I love the dynamic and again, you can tell Moffat does, too.

During the Name of the Doctor when Jenny is like "I think I've just been murdered" I think I let out an audible "NO".

That said, Jenny needs to shave that upper lip.
That was an amazing scene, being murdered in the real world and mentioning it in a mind meeting like that. Dramatic weight unfortunately ruined by bringing her back to life a few minutes later.
 
That was an amazing scene, being murdered in the real world and mentioning it in a mind meeting like that. Dramatic weight unfortunately ruined by bringing her back to life a few minutes later.

This is one of my biggest problems with New Who. They keep teasing deaths that are never actually real deaths. Rose was all like "This is the story of how I died" and no it turned out to be the story of how she ended up having her full family back and living in luxury and wealth in an alternate dimension. Donna was supposed to die but actually she just lost her memories and went back to living a full and normal life. Amy and Rory also got to live full lives in the past. Death has zero dramatic weight in this series because you know that they'll be fine.
 
Martha's a funny one. I'm sure she'd have been back in a UNIT capacity had Moffat a chance to write for her, but obviously he only ever wrote two lines or so for her, and he said he doesn't really feel comfortable writing for her without RTD edits as a result. She's somebody I'd like to see again, though.

I wonder who, if Billie had said no or been busy, would've been The Moment. Liz sadly gone, of course. Guess it would've been Catherine, but as 'Doctor-Donna' Donna.

Probably River.
 
I'm not ashamed to say I audibly gasped at Clara/Oswin in Asylum. Such a great little secret that really didn't add much to the episode but a brilliant way to introduce a companion.

Capaldi as the Moment might have been a bit too confusing for the average viewer but could've been cool. They definitely need to have more future Doctors appearing in the show 'before their time' though.

Yeah, both Eccleston's and Tennant's regenerations were slightly frustrating for me, as they only showed the new Doctors for a couple of seconds, doing nothing but shouting like a maniac. You didn't really get any sense what the new Doctors were like in those scenes. I understand (and agree) that the focus of a Doctor's last episode should be on that Doctor, but I'm hoping (and kinda expecting) that Capaldi will have slightly more to do on Christmas. I know that pretty much the entire script has leaked so some people here will probably know what his role is going to be, but I'm avoiding those spoilers like the plague, so please don't feel the need to enlighten me ;).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom