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Doctor Who: Time Of The Doctor |OT| 11's hour is over now... The clock is striking 12

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Blader said:
Does Matt fancy Jenna in real life? He seems to be taking an awful lot of opportunities to kiss her on the show.
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Matt seems to get along fantastically with every costar he has. Look at the confidentials around the time of Amy and Rory - the three of them were heart-crushingly best friends.

Then him and Jenna. Then later him and David together. He seems to be able to make best friends with anyone.

His Who, however, does seem to harbor something for her, but I suspect it's almost like a daughter thing. Whereas Rose was romantic and Amy was more sisterly or best friend, Clara is like a daughter to him, precious and platonic.
 
Matt and Arthur were mates long before they were cast in their respective roles - that's why there's such good chemistry between the Doctor and Rory. I think that's part of why Arthur was cast, even! I think we've been lucky where all of them have loved each other off-set as well so far, probably strongest with Tennant & Tate and Smith & Gillan.
 
The 11/Amy/Rory-chemistry was the most believable relationship out of all the new-Who relationships, for me. I'd say they were even close to what 2/Jamie or 4/Romana 2 (back before they hated each other) felt like.

Clara doesn't work that well for me, and that's not because of the actress. She's just very plainly written. I think they were going for a Sarah Jane-vibe. She shares the almost childlike innocence combined with a more adventurous side, who sees the Doctor as a combination of a friend and a paternal figure, just like how Sarah Jane felt about 3 and 4. I don't think it's a coincidence that Clara and Sarah Jane were mirrored against each other in that 50th anniversary trailer. It makes sense to create a more straightforward (outside of her convoluted background story obviously), back-to-the-essentials companion for the anniversary episodes, especially as you can't really get that same Amy/Rory vibe with the same Doctor and different companion.

I hope that means that Clara will work a bit better with 12 than with 11, just like how Sarah Jane worked better with 4 than she did with 3. I like that her background story is out of the way now and people can stop going on about how mysterious she is.
 
APZonerunner said:
Matt and Arthur were mates long before they were cast in their respective roles - that's why there's such good chemistry between the Doctor and Rory. I think that's part of why Arthur was cast, even! I think we've been lucky where all of them have loved each other off-set as well so far, probably strongest with Tennant & Tate and Smith & Gillan.
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And I don't think it's at all a coincidence that these friendships are with people of similar ages.

Makes me wonder what the on-set chemistry was like during the Davison era.
 
I don't think we'll ever see such a strong friendship/relationship than we did with Eleven, Amy and Rory. The chemistry between them three was just amazing. Clara and Matt are great, yeah, but it's nowhere near as close or intimate as it was with them three.
 
I personally think the best chemistry was between Donna and Ten, but I think the three person dynamic of 11/Amy/Rory led to a lot of good stories that couldn't have been done otherwise. The best part is how Amy and Rory are married; that's so nice compared to the rather aimless companions of previous New Who seasons.
 
Toxi said:
I personally think the best chemistry was between Donna and Ten, but I think the three person dynamic of 11/Amy/Rory led to a lot of good stories that couldn't have been done otherwise. The best part is how Amy and Rory are married; that's so nice compared to the rather aimless companions of previous New Who seasons.
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acheron_xl said:
And I don't think it's at all a coincidence that these friendships are with people of similar ages.

Makes me wonder what the on-set chemistry was like during the Davison era.
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Watching Tennant & Tate in interviews together is just the best thing. It's basically the Doctor and Donna, it's very funny. I always think of this bit where Graham Norton quizzed them on lines from the play they were starring in together - you can SEE so much of how David's Doctor IS him, and how much of Donna is in Catherine. It's amazing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjMLs_i-v8

The radio thing where she interviewed him is also just absolutely incredible. This is something that has to be listened to, all three parts - it is absolutely incredible. Tennant talking about growing up as a "solitary" Doctor Who fan, and Mark Gatiss dragging him out of "the Doctor Who closet": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXB49zublM

Such chemistry, I look forward to the day they do Big Finish together greatly.
 
CyanideStrike said:
I don't think we'll ever see such a strong friendship/relationship than we did with Eleven, Amy and Rory. The chemistry between them three was just amazing. Clara and Matt are great, yeah, but it's nowhere near as close or intimate as it was with them three.
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I think a lot of the reasons why it works is because it's so applicable to real life situations with people of their respective ages. The idea of having a friend who goes off, gets married, and eventually drifts away from you in an attempt to settle down is such a relatable storyline that's nicely threaded through S5-7. In some ways it's only something you can do with the 11th Doctor because he does look so young. It might feel a little overly clingy with older Doctors.
 
Finished my greatest hits rewatch of Matt's era today - was expecting it to take the 24 days until Christmas, but I burned through it rather quickly! S5 was as great as I remembered it, but the real surprise was S6, which I could have sworn I didn't enjoy very much when it aired but really liked this time.

And after seeing Name of the Doctor and Day of the Doctor again, I'm feeling much more hopeful about this last special. I think I said this earlier, but The Wedding of River Song and even the Pandorica two-parter feel more like protracted explanations than proper stories, and I'd hate to see Matt's finale amount to just a laundry list of answers (much as I may want some answers :lol). NOTD and DOTD still retain some of that, but there's more of a clear beginning-middle-end plot that breathes and matters.

Speaking of NOTD, this episode has fantastic music. I particularly love Trenzalore, what a haunting track. Does anyone happen to know the name of the music that plays at the episode, when it shifts from Clara's theme to something darker for the Hurt reveal?
 
Blader said:
Speaking of NOTD, this episode has fantastic music. I particularly love Trenzalore, what a haunting track. Does anyone happen to know the name of the music that plays at the episode, when it shifts from Clara's theme to something darker for the Hurt reveal?
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I think it's one of the tracks from Amy's Choice. I couldn't tell you which one, however.
 
Quick Mustard said:
I dont think its been released.
I couldnt find it when I scanned through the albums just now.

This YouTube link seems to suggest its unreleased.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V_krgE0jJo
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It is from Amy's Choice, so it might well be on the Series 5 OST. Worth checking. It plays when the Dream Lord first explains their situation to them. "Nighty-night. Time to sleep. Or are you... waking up...?"

The Series 7 OST saddens me a bit, as it IS magnificently scored, but it's almost a tease because it'll probably not be that comprehensive again very often. The big gap in production means there's a chance for Series 8, but then them ditching everything and having new melodies and sounds probably dampens that a bit.

One advantage of the split series was just that Murray Gold had a lot more time, which led to this. Usually only Christmas episodes get that treatment. Weirdly, Day of the Doctor was back to around the normal amount of reused stuff, which with the cinema release I didn't expect.
 
acheron_xl said:
And I don't think it's at all a coincidence that these friendships are with people of similar ages.

Makes me wonder what the on-set chemistry was like during the Davison era.
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Well, in at least one DVD commentary, the others slag off Matthew Waterhouse pretty heavily, so he was apparently something of a shit. But he seems cognizant of it at least, and has come back for Big Finish stuff with Davison and company. The others got along fine from what I've heard/read.
 
APZonerunner said:
One advantage of the split series was just that Murray Gold had a lot more time, which led to this. Usually only Christmas episodes get that treatment. Weirdly, Day of the Doctor was back to around the normal amount of reused stuff, which with the cinema release I didn't expect.
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I was quite disappointed by that actually. I thought they'd treat it like a Christmas episode scoring wise but we really didn't get much new stuff out of it at all. I guess that budget really was awfully tight.
 
bengraven said:
Matt seems to get along fantastically with every costar he has. Look at the confidentials around the time of Amy and Rory - the three of them were heart-crushingly best friends.

Then him and Jenna. Then later him and David together. He seems to be able to make best friends with anyone.

His Who, however, does seem to harbor something for her, but I suspect it's almost like a daughter thing. Whereas Rose was romantic and Amy was more sisterly or best friend, Clara is like a daughter to him, precious and platonic.
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But then the buttslap happened, and that father-daughter relationship turned into one like my Japanese animes :(
 
APZonerunner said:
It is from Amy's Choice, so it might well be on the Series 5 OST. Worth checking. It plays when the Dream Lord first explains their situation to them. "Nighty-night. Time to sleep. Or are you... waking up...?"
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It's not either of the Amy's Choice tracks on the soundtrack, it may well be somewhere else though. Amy's Choice got robbed though, there was a really nice precursor to Majestic Tale that never made it too.
 
Scarl said:
I was quite disappointed by that actually. I thought they'd treat it like a Christmas episode scoring wise but we really didn't get much new stuff out of it at all. I guess that budget really was awfully tight.
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I think perhaps secrecy got in the way. Like, the only section that actually felt 'scored' to me - as in Gold had access to the actual visuals to score against - was the moment with the Tenth Doctor & Elizabeth on their own, where it gave a full orchestral blast of "London Bridge" from Series One (and New Earth), with a touch of The Doctor Forever. A lot of the rest feels like he wasn't scoring to scenes directly, but just to themes. Gold lives in New York and has done since around Series 4, so maybe they didn't want to send him something major that could leak along the way.

...though I still find "London Bridge" being used very weird. It's more a Ninth Doctor theme than a Tenth Doctor theme - it's all over Series One, then plays twice in Series Two, both in New Earth. You never hear that music alongside Tennant again. It makes me think, again, that there was more Eccleston intended, Gold had already begun to rearrange for orchestra (it was all synth previously) and then stuck with it when it was just Tennant.

It bummed me out that the two biggest moments of the episode (the regeneration & saving Gallifrey) were both scored with old tracks. The former is slightly different - it's the music from when he goes up in the Pandorica, but with some of the not-real synth elements like the drums scaled back so it's pure orchestra, but meanwhile a relatively benign moment (when they're trying to land the TARDIS in the black archive and shouting at Kate over the telegraph) got like 4 minutes of lovely new incidental music.
 
Just finished watching the 50 th special. What a fantastic episode after an ok season . Fun call backs and the part with all the doctors was pretty great.

Great to see temnant back

Can't wait for the new season
 
APZonerunner said:
It is from Amy's Choice, so it might well be on the Series 5 OST. Worth checking. It plays when the Dream Lord first explains their situation to them. "Nighty-night. Time to sleep. Or are you... waking up...?"

The Series 7 OST saddens me a bit, as it IS magnificently scored, but it's almost a tease because it'll probably not be that comprehensive again very often. The big gap in production means there's a chance for Series 8, but then them ditching everything and having new melodies and sounds probably dampens that a bit.

One advantage of the split series was just that Murray Gold had a lot more time, which led to this. Usually only Christmas episodes get that treatment. Weirdly, Day of the Doctor was back to around the normal amount of reused stuff, which with the cinema release I didn't expect.
Click to expand...

I doubt they'll just start from scratch again, since it's not really a cold boot like Series 5 was. Even Murray Gold said, that he'll probably reuse I Am The Doctor, because it's so iconic.
 
APZonerunner said:
I think perhaps secrecy got in the way. Like, the only section that actually felt 'scored' to me - as in Gold had access to the actual visuals to score against - was the moment with the Tenth Doctor & Elizabeth on their own, where it gave a full orchestral blast of "London Bridge" from Series One (and New Earth), with a touch of The Doctor Forever. A lot of the rest feels like he wasn't scoring to scenes directly, but just to themes. Gold lives in New York and has done since around Series 4, so maybe they didn't want to send him something major that could leak along the way.

...though I still find "London Bridge" being used very weird. It's more a Ninth Doctor theme than a Tenth Doctor theme - it's all over Series One, then plays twice in Series Two, both in New Earth. You never hear that music alongside Tennant again. It makes me think, again, that there was more Eccleston intended, Gold had already begun to rearrange for orchestra (it was all synth previously) and then stuck with it when it was just Tennant.

It bummed me out that the two biggest moments of the episode (the regeneration & saving Gallifrey) were both scored with old tracks. The former is slightly different - it's the music from when he goes up in the Pandorica, but with some of the not-real synth elements like the drums scaled back so it's pure orchestra, but meanwhile a relatively benign moment (when they're trying to land the TARDIS in the black archive and shouting at Kate over the telegraph) got like 4 minutes of lovely new incidental music.
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What theme do you mean with "London Bridge"? I'm pretty sure there is no track called that on any of the soundtrack releases, I didn't find any at least. I just have no idea what you mean by it, me memory isn't very good when it comes to these kind of things.

But yes, I suppose secrecy could have been the reason. But about the Eccleston thing: would Gold have begun his work on the rearrangements that soon? I always thought that would be one of the later things to work on, no?

The regeneration music didn't really bother me, I quite like "The Sad Man with a Box" and I think it was a great fit. I certainly was more disappointed with the re-use of music for the saving of Gallifrey though. Oh well.

PentinantTangent said:
I doubt they'll just start from scratch again, since it's not really a cold boot like Series 5 was. Even Murray Gold said, that he'll probably reuse I Am The Doctor, because it's so iconic.
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Did he really say that? Maybe it's just me but I thought the older Doctor theme was way more iconic and he stopped using that just fine. I love I Am The Doctor but I think it's growing quite stale now. :/
 
Watched the God Complex again today in preparation for this. Why oh why did they not have Rita as the next companion. Amara Karan is stunning and she was way more interesting that JLC ended up...
 
Scarl said:
Did he really say that? Maybe it's just me but I thought the older Doctor theme was way more iconic and he stopped using that just fine. I love I Am The Doctor but I think it's growing quite stale now. :/
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He did. I'm happy for more variations of the theme however, rather than just reusing the same piece of music over and over again.
 
vcassano1 said:
Watched the God Complex again today in preparation for this. Why oh why did they not have Rita as the next companion. Amara Karan is stunning and she was way more interesting that JLC ended up...
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I imagine Moffat would want invent the companion himself than use someone else's character.
 
I'll be more than a little annoyed if they bring I Am the Doctor back. I just watched A Christmas Carol again recently, and it was nice hearing the various riffs on it there, but that theme is 100% Smith and I don't want to see it repeated for any other Doctor.
 
Scarl said:
What theme do you mean with "London Bridge"? I'm pretty sure there is no track called that on any of the soundtrack releases, I didn't find any at least. I just have no idea what you mean by it, me memory isn't very good when it comes to these kind of things.

But yes, I suppose secrecy could have been the reason. But about the Eccleston thing: would Gold have begun his work on the rearrangements that soon? I always thought that would be one of the later things to work on, no?

The regeneration music didn't really bother me, I quite like "The Sad Man with a Box" and I think it was a great fit. I certainly was more disappointed with the re-use of music for the saving of Gallifrey though. Oh well.

Did he really say that? Maybe it's just me but I thought the older Doctor theme was way more iconic and he stopped using that just fine. I love I Am The Doctor but I think it's growing quite stale now. :/
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Got the name wrong, it's Westminster Bridge, my bad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9OAkfCKERI

The bit used in Day of the Doctor kicks in there about 40 seconds in. That's the one from Series 2, it plays as Jackie & Mickey wave the TARDIS off with Rose & 10 leaving for the first time. After that, it plays once more, then never again for Tennant - but it's in almost all of Eccleston's episode in some form or another. Thus me thinking its use strange! It segways into a few bars of The Doctor Forever in Day of the Doctor, as well.

I do think Sad Man in a Box is a really lovely theme, I'm just sad that regeneration didn't get something more iconic because that is a moment that will be remembered specifically in the future because of its signifiance.

Gold has talked about dreading having to think up something new and stop using I Am The Doctor, so I don't expect that theme to continue. We'll hear it once or twice in Capaldi's first few episodes (like how we got bits of All The Strange, Strange Creatures and Corridors & Fire Escapes in the first 4 episodes of Series 5, or how Westminster Bridge plays twice with Tennant) to transition over and then a sound for Capaldi will be established, I'm sure. He said:
I thought, 'Well that means a lot of work!' [Laughs] I thought, 'Oh my god, are we really not going to hear I Am The Doctor again?' [Laughs] I instantly began to think. 'Could we use it for the next one as well?' Does it maybe capture something eternally Doctorish, does it have to not be there ever again until Matt appears again, as hopefully one day he will, on some new version of the multi-Doctor story. Are we never going to hear I Am The Doctor again until the 60th? [Laughs] If we don't, then what follows it has to be stronger. I think that, in a way, I Am The Doctor is stronger than the themes Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant had. So, I was thinking those thoughts.

I've thought about it, for sure. I think it should maybe link to the Eleventh Doctor's theme somehow. If there was a way of doing that, though I just have to wait and see. Maybe it'll be a horse. Maybe the next Doctor will be an animal of some kind. A crab. A little sideways-moving crab that demands a slightly adventurous foxtrot. [Laughs] I don't know if I can top I Am The Doctor. Maybe it can metamorphose somehow. I don't know what's out there, imaginatively - maybe there's something that will come to mind. Again, it depends who's cast. And how the first episode looks.
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Think that's him saying that he will replace it, not that he won't. He's just scared of having to repeat the feat. ...which, I'd be happy for a new take on the score now, really. He's very good but he's been at it for nearly a decade now, and change is good. Gold seems pretty entrenched, though.
 
APZonerunner said:
It is from Amy's Choice, so it might well be on the Series 5 OST. Worth checking. It plays when the Dream Lord first explains their situation to them. "Nighty-night. Time to sleep. Or are you... waking up...?"

The Series 7 OST saddens me a bit, as it IS magnificently scored, but it's almost a tease because it'll probably not be that comprehensive again very often. The big gap in production means there's a chance for Series 8, but then them ditching everything and having new melodies and sounds probably dampens that a bit.

One advantage of the split series was just that Murray Gold had a lot more time, which led to this. Usually only Christmas episodes get that treatment. Weirdly, Day of the Doctor was back to around the normal amount of reused stuff, which with the cinema release I didn't expect.
Click to expand...

Dryk said:
It's not either of the Amy's Choice tracks on the soundtrack, it may well be somewhere else though. Amy's Choice got robbed though, there was a really nice precursor to Majestic Tale that never made it too.
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Aye, I cant find it, which is a shame, as its a lovely piece of music :/

Hopefully one day, they'll do a massive release of all the un-released music.

I was looking at getting the 50th Anniversay music box set that they released, but its very underwhelming in terms of music.
 
APZonerunner said:
Watching Tennant & Tate in interviews together is just the best thing. It's basically the Doctor and Donna, it's very funny. I always think of this bit where Graham Norton quizzed them on lines from the play they were starring in together - you can SEE so much of how David's Doctor IS him, and how much of Donna is in Catherine. It's amazing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjMLs_i-v8

The radio thing where she interviewed him is also just absolutely incredible. This is something that has to be listened to, all three parts - it is absolutely incredible. Tennant talking about growing up as a "solitary" Doctor Who fan, and Mark Gatiss dragging him out of "the Doctor Who closet": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXB49zublM

Such chemistry, I look forward to the day they do Big Finish together greatly.
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Thanks for linking these, they're hilarious. :D
 
APZonerunner said:
Watching Tennant & Tate in interviews together is just the best thing. It's basically the Doctor and Donna, it's very funny. I always think of this bit where Graham Norton quizzed them on lines from the play they were starring in together - you can SEE so much of how David's Doctor IS him, and how much of Donna is in Catherine. It's amazing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjMLs_i-v8

The radio thing where she interviewed him is also just absolutely incredible. This is something that has to be listened to, all three parts - it is absolutely incredible. Tennant talking about growing up as a "solitary" Doctor Who fan, and Mark Gatiss dragging him out of "the Doctor Who closet": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXB49zublM

Such chemistry, I look forward to the day they do Big Finish together greatly.
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These two on never mind the Buzzcocks are hilarious.
 
I just had a thought - if John Hurt regenerated immediately after saving Galliffrey (as shown at the end of TDotD) then when is the one that 11 meets in his timestream from? He says "what I did I did without choice in the name of peace and sanity" which suggests it's after he thinks he used The Moment, but there's no time for him to be living with that guilt before becoming 9, right?
 
wetflame said:
I just had a thought - if John Hurt regenerated immediately after saving Galliffrey (as shown at the end of TDotD) then when is the one that 11 meets in his timestream from? He says "what I did I did without choice in the name of peace and sanity" which suggests it's after he thinks he used The Moment, but there's no time for him to be living with that guilt before becoming 9, right?
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The second he stepped into the TARDIS, his memory was wiped so he thought he went through with it. Essentially, he had been thinking about his decision the whole time he was inside that place.
 
jwk94 said:
The second he stepped into the TARDIS, his memory was wiped so he thought he went through with it. Essentially, he had been thinking about his decision the whole time he was inside that place.
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But then he immediately regenerated into 9 so at what point was he standing around looking grim as at the end of The Name of the Doctor? There wasn't a point where the Doctor as Hurt would have been struggling with what he did.
 
wetflame said:
I just had a thought - if John Hurt regenerated immediately after saving Galliffrey (as shown at the end of TDotD) then when is the one that 11 meets in his timestream from? He says "what I did I did without choice in the name of peace and sanity" which suggests it's after he thinks he used The Moment, but there's no time for him to be living with that guilt before becoming 9, right?
Click to expand...

wetflame said:
But then he immediately regenerated into 9 so at what point was he standing around looking grim as at the end of The Name of the Doctor? There wasn't a point where the Doctor as Hurt would have been struggling with what he did.
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Think of his version at the Name of the Doctor not as a "real" doctor, but a snapshot of what he was, what he remembers. For BEFORE the Doctor decides to go through with his new plan, up till that point the universe (including the Doctor himself) still believes that Gallifray was destryoed along with the main Dalek fleet.
 
SpacePirate Ridley said:
Just a question, isnt the start of that track, up to 19 seconds, used everytime a new season started showing an image of earth during the RTD years?
I always thought that was a cool thing he had.
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Yeah, it was. They used it in The Eleventh Hour as well, and I think it shows up in another Moffat series somewhere.
 
PentinantTangent said:
I don't think that particular song was used, just the opening scene. They used "Down To Earth" for the first song.
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Well, yeah, obviously. They don't use that particular piece in Series 2, 3, 4 or The End of Time either. They just use that opening and then it transfers into an unrelated piece, the same way it does in The Eleventh Hour. It was just a continuation of the same tradition.
 
wetflame said:
I just had a thought - if John Hurt regenerated immediately after saving Galliffrey (as shown at the end of TDotD) then when is the one that 11 meets in his timestream from? He says "what I did I did without choice in the name of peace and sanity" which suggests it's after he thinks he used The Moment, but there's no time for him to be living with that guilt before becoming 9, right?
Click to expand...

In Inception terms, the War Doctor seen at the end of NOTD is Eleven's projection of him.
 
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