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[Discotheque]

Smith definitely became my favorite doctor. Partly helps because season 5 was easily the best overall run of episodes. Even with that two parter dud i loved the tone and cohesiveness of it all. And amy pond with Rory helped too

Capaldi's gonna do so good though. He's my favorite actor of the four so I'm really interested in his take

 

[xandaca]

We'll see what Matt does post-Doctor Who, but the range he's displayed in work outside of the show hasn't got a patch on the stuff Eccleston or Tennant have done, really. He's significantly younger, but to be honest I don't expect him to do anything close to their theatre work, really.

I don't think he's write-home amazing in that Trenzalore scene, but I think his real tentpole scene is his goodbye to Amy in The Big Bang. Really wonderful scene.

Disagree, Matt's at least the equal of Tennant in terms of acting range. Both actors were diminished in the final year or so of their run by overemphasizing their quirks (Tennant with the over-the-top delivery, Matt with the wavy hands), but Tennant was given more interesting material to play by RTD - Time Lord Victorious, the four knocks - to compensate. We'll see what Moffat gives Matt at Christmas, but on prior form, I'm not expecting much other than a bit of shouting to be done. Eccleston blows them both out of the water, he's so beautifully precise in a way less experienced actors can't come close to.

 

[maharg]

I think maybe answering these questions is what turns people off the idea. Only in the sense that there isn't much of a non-awkward way to do it.

Like, the first thing I think of when people bring up a female Doctor is how you do the whole post-regeneration getting used to being a woman thing without it being cliche or offensive. Do you hand it over to a female writer? At which point is that offensive because you're implying women are only good at writing for women? It's a tough balancing act.

Kinda crazy to me that a non-white Doctor would probably be a heck of a lot less controversial than a woman.

It not happening because it would be a 'balancing act' is far more offensive than anything they could possibly do with it when it does. And there should be more women writers on the show anyways, it's pretty ridiculous how male-dominated the show's writing is.

 

[APZonerunner]

I guess. Like I say it depends on who's writing that. If someone like Moffat had a five minute riff on 'I have boobs now' (which you totally know he would) people would be rightfully upset. I think the show just needs female writers/directors etc firmly in place before embarking on the great female Doctor horizon.

Did I read a rumour somewhere that there was going to be a female writer in S8?

There's a female writer for Capaldi's first two parter, which will see him facing off

Spoiler

against the Daleks

. It's a husband-and-wife team, as the husband is directing it. There's really no women who are in the right position to even be considered for actually taking the show over, really, but it's good we've got another female writer - the first since Helen Raynor, who did stories in Series 3 & 4, and was Moffat's script editor for his episodes in Series 1-3.

Disagree, Matt's at least the equal of Tennant in terms of acting range. Both actors were diminished in the final year or so of their run by overemphasizing their quirks (Tennant with the over-the-top delivery, Matt with the wavy hands), but Tennant was given more interesting material to play by RTD - Time Lord Victorious, the four knocks - to compensate. We'll see what Moffat gives Matt at Christmas, but on prior form, I'm not expecting much other than a bit of shouting to be done. Eccleston blows them both out of the water, he's so beautifully precise in a way less experienced actors can't come close to.

I've seen Matt in a number of things outside Who but never seen him deliver a performance quite like some of Tennant's stuff outside Who. The guy has a deceptively large range, really, especially if you come off the back of his work as the Doctor. I think Tennant's ability is actually up there with Eccleston really, he just hasn't had the non-stage projects with which to showcase it. There's not an episode where Matt is as consistently incredible in choices he made as an actor as Tennant in Human Nature, imo.

This actually isn't a great example, but there's bloody amazing choices as an actor by Tennant in this. (Plus, Patrick Stewart! What a team.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kuF1-tyaAE

Kinda crazy to me that a non-white Doctor would probably be a heck of a lot less controversial than a woman.

I dunno - when there seemed to be a lot of smoke around the rumour that Paterson Joseph was going to be 11 people seemed properly pumped - not just fans, but the UK media and newspapers in general. I think a black Doctor would be fine and actually cause less of a hubub than a woman.

 

[xandaca]

It not happening because it would be a 'balancing act' is far more offensive than anything they could possibly do with it when it does. And there should be more women writers on the show anyways, it's pretty ridiculous how male-dominated the show's writing is.

Still fail to see why the Doctor can't stay as he is, and the BBC get their many teams of writers to write lead roles in dramas specifically for non-white actors and women. Colour-blind casting, so to speak, is the worst kind tokenism masquerading as progressivism.

 

[xandaca]

I've seen Matt in a number of things outside Who but never seen him deliver a performance quite like some of Tennant's stuff outside Who. The guy has a deceptively large range, really, especially if you come off the back of his work as the Doctor. I think Tennant's ability is actually up there with Eccleston really, he just hasn't had the non-stage projects with which to showcase it.

I'm not saying Tennant isn't a good actor, as I like both he and Matt a great deal. I was lucky enough to see Tennant's Hamlet and he was terrific, and his Who work certainly shows off his versatility. I just think it's unfair to say any less of Matt, who IMO has also been sensational (my preferred of the two Doctors admittedly, but mainly because he's more alien) and hasn't really had the chance to do much prominent non-Who work yet. He's doing American Psycho on stage quite soon, which should be interesting.

EDIT: Apologies for double posting, just hit the 'Quote' link without thinking I'd already written something a minute ago.

 

[Avixph]

Nah.

Why not?

 

[kyo2004]

Interesting trailer... (fun fact: released 14 days before the premiere... The same number of Doctors so far including Hurt, the Second Tenth of S4 and Capaldi).. And just have to wait 2 more weeks... :/

 

[APZonerunner]

I'm not saying Tennant isn't a good actor, as I like both he and Matt a great deal. I was lucky enough to see Tennant's Hamlet and he was terrific, and his Who work certainly shows off his versatility. I just think it's unfair to say any less of Matt, who IMO has also been sensational (my preferred of the two Doctors admittedly, but mainly because he's more alien) and hasn't really had the chance to do much prominent non-Who work yet. He's doing American Psycho on stage quite soon, which should be interesting.

EDIT: Apologies for double posting, just hit the 'Quote' link without thinking I'd already written something a minute ago.

I'm not really talking about his role in Who so much, just that in general overall what I've seen from Matt isn't as strong as what I've seen from Eccleston or Tennant. He is much younger, but I also generally don't think he's the type of actor who'll end up in the same sort of crazy projects the other two did, though. He keeps saying how long-term he wants to be more of a jack of all trades and write and direct in equal measure, and I think that's perfect for him. He's a very carefully minded actor, which lends him towards those things as well.

Matt's been sensational in Who, and in terms of Doctor Who specifically actually has shown more ability in the role than Eccleston did (who I felt played it a bit too straight, really), but I think if we're talking Doctor Who specifically Tennant pips him for me. If we're talking in general, I think he's probably the weakest actor of the three, but that is no bloody insult considering the company he's keeping, especially given his age. Matt also hands-down has a better range than every single actor who took the role in the classic series when they took the role except for possibly Troughton (not a fact you'r notice just watching Troughton in Who, mind.)

Capaldi will blow them all out of the water anyway. He is literally one of the finest actors in Britain and I cannot wait to see what he does with the role.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Can wait. While it took Matt time to grow on me I have grown to love his take on the Dr. I really don't wanna see him go yet. Course with the Dr there is always change I guess.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

And here... we... go!

This is going to be amazing.

So about the Daleks talking about the regeneration, are they going to watch the Doctor regenerate for the first time in the show? (not counting the Rowan Atkinson sketch lol)

 

[Fiktion]

Why not?

Any discussion on the subject is moot since you'll never see her again.

Capaldi will blow them all out of the water anyway. He is literally one of the finest actors in Britain and I cannot wait to see what he does with the role.

+1

Hurry up and die, Matt! It's for the best.

 

[User 100115]

From the anniversary thread:

Fiktion?

As for the episode, I AM NOT READY GUYS NOOO

 

[Blader]

We'll see what Matt does post-Doctor Who, but the range he's displayed in work outside of the show hasn't got a patch on the stuff Eccleston or Tennant have done, really. He's significantly younger, but to be honest I don't expect him to do anything close to their theatre work, really.

I don't think he's write-home amazing in that Trenzalore scene, but I think his real tentpole scene is his goodbye to Amy in The Big Bang. Really wonderful scene.

"Amy Pond. The girl who didn't make sense. How could I resist?"

 

[Fuu]

Fiktion?

As for the episode, I AM NOT READY GUYS NOOO

lmao! At first I didn't notice it was Fiktion and not Fiction.

 

[Ashodin]

Fiktion?

As for the episode, I AM NOT READY GUYS NOOO

THE METACRISIS FICTION HAS MET THE REAL FICTION. OUR PLAN IS OPERATION-AL.

 

[APZonerunner]

Any discussion on the subject is moot since you'll never see her again.

Eh. Moffat's doing, though. She was dying in the script and one of Moffat's first requests as the next to the throne was asking RTD that they switch it so that she lives - so late in the game that it was issued as pink pages after they'd already begun filming.

That's an open story that can be picked up at any point - in the show, in Big Finish, whatever - and Georgia is too close to the show - given who her husband and father are - to never be connected again. I actually think she's a thread they'll pick up one day. Perhaps not in-show, but eventually.

I actually think Moffat had maybe intended to use her, since he'd planned to cast an older Doctor in his late 40s or early 50s (something he's admitted, but see also the River dialogue in Silence in the Library), but then Matt came along, wrecked the audition and suddenly they'd cast somebody barely out of his mid-20s. Georgia is actually older than Matt, so that would've made for a weird dynamic, so I just have a feeling that killed the idea stone dead.

 

[Fiktion]

Fiktion?

As for the episode, I AM NOT READY GUYS NOOO

I did not foresee this problem when picking this name.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Eh. Moffat's doing, though. She was dying in the script and one of Moffat's first requests as the next to the throne was asking RTD that they switch it so that she lives - so late in the game that it was issued as pink pages after they'd already begun filming.

That's an open story that can be picked up at any point - in the show, in Big Finish, whatever - and Georgia is too close to the show - given who her husband and father are - to never be connected again. I actually think she's a thread they'll pick up one day. Perhaps not in-show, but eventually.

I actually think Moffat had maybe intended to use her, since he'd planned to cast an older Doctor in his late 40s or early 50s (something he's admitted, but see also the River dialogue in Silence in the Library), but then Matt came along, wrecked the audition and suddenly they'd cast somebody barely out of his mid-20s. Georgia is actually older than Matt, so that would've made for a weird dynamic, so I just have a feeling that killed the idea.

Used with Capaldi as the new Susan in the future maybe?

 

[The Adder]

Still fail to see why the Doctor can't stay as he is, and the BBC get their many teams of writers to write lead roles in dramas specifically for non-white actors and women. Colour-blind casting, so to speak, is the worst kind tokenism masquerading as progressivism.

"I don't want my white male lead who has been played by a literal baker's dozen actors to be played by someone who isn't q white male. That would be the REAL racism/sexism!"

 

[APZonerunner]

Used with Capaldi as the new Susan in the future maybe?

River's now done - or her main plot is, at least - and Capaldi is actually quite literally old enough to be Georgia's father, so it could now work. She could be the roving companion again, and a sort of spunky young girl who finds her eccentric father rather embarrassing could be quite fun with an older Doctor, I think. Plus, Moffat is so bloody pally-pally with that family, all their dinner dates and such. I don't imagine for a second the topic hasn't come off.

 

[User 100115]

THE METACRISIS FICTION HAS MET THE REAL FICTION. OUR PLAN IS OPERATION-AL.

I don't even remember regenerating!

I did not foresee this problem when picking this name.

The only solution is that we must fight to the death.

 

[maharg]

Still fail to see why the Doctor can't stay as he is, and the BBC get their many teams of writers to write lead roles in dramas specifically for non-white actors and women. Colour-blind casting, so to speak, is the worst kind tokenism masquerading as progressivism.

The idea that a character who's defining trait is that he can become anyone has to stay an old (or old-for-his-apparent-years) white dude forever is just plain silly. Nothing to do with anything you're talking about in this post at all, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[Fiktion]

The only solution is that we must fight to the death.

I don't suppose we can send you off to live in a parallel universe with Billie Piper?

 

[User 100115]

I don't suppose we can send you off to live in a parallel universe with Billie Piper?

Um um....I have a tag I win?

 

[xandaca]

"I don't want my white male lead who has been played by a literal baker's dozen actors to be played by someone who isn't q white male. That would be the REAL racism/sexism!"

Nice argument you've got there, shame it doesn't exist. You're the one calling for someone to be cast exclusively because they're black/female, which I hate to break it to you, is pretty much the definition of tokenism.

 

[maharg]

Nice argument you've got there, shame it doesn't exist. You're the one calling for someone to be cast exclusively because they're black/female, which I hate to break it to you, is pretty much the definition of tokenism.

That's quite the strawman you've got there. It's very bristly and full of anger.

 

[Fiktion]

Um um....I have a tag I win?

Fine I'll stay behind and fight the flesh, you go off and rescue Karen Gillian.

 

[xandaca]

That's quite the strawman you've got there. It's very bristly and full of anger.

Explain how it's a strawman, exactly? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

 

[APZonerunner]

"I don't want my white male lead who has been played by a literal baker's dozen actors to be played by someone who isn't q white male. That would be the REAL racism/sexism!"

In my head canon changing genders is a choice, as statistically speaking 13 heads in a row in a system that should be heads or tails is, er... difficult to explain. We know that voluntary regenerations are more controlled, so I like to think that in a voluntary regeneration if a Time Lord wanted to be a woman - like the Corsair - they could make that change, influence it. Like a human choosing to have their gender reassigned. The Doctor is just dying in a less controlled manner each time, so he's defaulting to what he was born as each time. That's how I see it until the show proves to me otherwise.

I personally do sort of view the Doctor fundamentally as a male character, though, and I think the show would have to rejig his personality more forcefully than any other regeneration to sell that if he changed gender. Ethnicities - not so much. Bring on a black Doctor or an asian Doctor or whatever. There's just certain traits about the character that seem particularly masculine. They could be wiped away by regeneration, though. I wouldn't be mega upset if it happened, I'd embrace it.

I do agree that colour-blind casting can be dangerous, but I also agree with something Moffat said - If you set out to cast a white man, a woman, or a black man specifically, you've sort of already failed as they may not be the best person of the entire pool available to you. You need to cast the best actor for the role, not the best actor who is a woman, or who is black, in order to tick some demographic box. That's why I hated the backlash for the Capaldi thing; he's patently an amazing choice so, er, sod off with the accusing the show of being sexist for casting him at all? Moffat's Who has plenty of things you can level as sexism at it! That isn't one of them. I do think Doctor Who has a duty to provide the young girls who watch it with positive female role models, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the Doctor. Moffat's era hasn't been great at that, but hopefully that improves.

PS: Know who'd make a great Doctor? Adrian Lester. He'd be fucking AMAZING. God. Incredible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFnkSGH3LL8 As of right now, he'd be my dream 13th.

 

[Fiktion]

In my head canon changing genders is a choice, as statistically speaking 13 heads in a row in a system that should be heads or tails is, er... difficult to explain. We know that voluntary regenerations are more controlled, so I like to think that in a voluntary regeneration if a Time Lord wanted to be a woman - like the Corsair - they could make that change, influence it. Like a human choosing to have their gender reassigned. The Doctor is just dying in a less controlled manner each time, so he's defaulting to what he was born as each time. That's how I see it until the show proves to me otherwise.

I personally do sort of view the Doctor fundamentally as a male character, though, and I think the show would have to rejig his personality more forcefully than any other regeneration to sell that if he changed gender. Ethnicities - not so much. Bring on a black Doctor or an asian Doctor or whatever. There's just certain traits about the character that seem particularly masculine. They could be wiped away by regeneration, though. I wouldn't be mega upset if it happened, I'd embrace it.

I do agree that colour-blind casting is dangerous, which is something Moffat has said. If you set out to cast a woman or a black man, you've sort of already failed as they may not be the best person of the entire pool available to you. I do think Doctor Who has a duty to provide the young girls who watch it with positive female role models, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the Doctor. Moffat's era hasn't been great at that, but hopefully that improves.

PS: Know who'd make a great Doctor? Adrian Lester. He'd be fucking AMAZING. God. Incredible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFnkSGH3LL8 As of right now, he'd be my dream 13th.

I always figured that different Time Lords have different odds of regenerating as male or female. The Corsair was said to have been a woman only a couple of times, and both River and the Master stayed the same gender every time. A gender change is probably something that just has a small probability of happening. It's not 50/50, maybe like 10% or something.

 

[Fidelis Hodie]

I don't suppose we can send you off to live in a parallel universe with Billie Piper?

*volunteers*

Rewatching through Eccleston's season right now and good lord do I love Billie Piper. My favorite companion.

Bad Wolf forever.

 

[maharg]

Explain how it's a strawman, exactly? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Can you show me where in the post you quoted, or really anywhere at all, someone suggested someone be cast as the doctor ONLY because they're a woman?

 

[The Adder]

Explain how it's a strawman, exactly? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Point out where I called for someone to be cast because they are black/female.

You can't?

That's why it is a strawman.

However, I can point out where you say someone SHOULDN'T be cast because they are black/female.

 

[APZonerunner]

I always figured that different Time Lords have different odds of regenerating as male or female. The Corsair was said to have been a woman only a couple of times, and both River and the Master stayed the same gender every time. A gender change is probably something that just has a small probability of happening.

The reason I have folded choice into my personal canon is because we've already seen Romana 'try on' different regenerations in a controlled regeneration where she just grew tired of one body and decided she wanted another. She literally shifts between several different bodies, one even not human in appearance, before settling on the ridiculously lovely Lalla Ward (who wouldn't settle on her?) - so there's clearly more control over regenerations when they are by choice and not by necessity in order to avoid deadly death. The Second Doctor's regeneration is forced by the Time Lords, and is therefore controlled - and they show him various faces he can choose from just the same (all of which he rejects, so they choose for him!) Some expanded universe stuff also sits with this, and it's never been contradicted since these two stories, so while it's never been explicitly said on-screen (though it has in text and in audio) that voluntary regenerations offer more choice and control, it certainly makes sense that this is the case.

I just imagine if Romana had been so inclined she could've also had male options to choose from as well that day, but she didn't. She wanted to retain her gender. Likewise, if the time lords had wanted, they could've forced a gender change upon the Doctor as part of his punishment.

It sort of ties two messy bits of the continuity regarding regeneration together.

 

[fireside]

In my head canon changing genders is a choice, as statistically speaking 13 heads in a row in a system that should be heads or tails is, er... difficult to explain. We know that voluntary regenerations are more controlled, so I like to think that in a voluntary regeneration if a Time Lord wanted to be a woman - like the Corsair - they could make that change, influence it. Like a human choosing to have their gender reassigned. The Doctor is just dying in a less controlled manner each time, so he's defaulting to what he was born as each time. That's how I see it until the show proves to me otherwise.

I personally do sort of view the Doctor fundamentally as a male character, though, and I think the show would have to rejig his personality more forcefully than any other regeneration to sell that if he changed gender. Ethnicities - not so much. Bring on a black Doctor or an asian Doctor or whatever. There's just certain traits about the character that seem particularly masculine. They could be wiped away by regeneration, though. I wouldn't be mega upset if it happened, I'd embrace it.

There isn't anything preventing a woman from having some so-called masculine traits.

Although I am interested in knowing what these traits are that you think would have to be removed if the Doctor was a lady.

 

[User 100115]

Fine I'll stay behind and fight the flesh, you go off and rescue Karen Gillian.

Fine fine...*grumbles* Amy! Get your coat.

Re: Female Doctor

It would be interesting. My ten year old son talked about it the other day.

Him: Mom, has the Doctor ever been a girl?
Me: Nope.
Him: Can he be?
Me: Sure it's possible.
Him: Well, I hope the next Doctor is a girl.
Me: Why?
Him: Because he's been a boy this whole time. It's sorta not fair, ya know? [Little Sister] needs someone to look up to just like I've got.

I swear I didn't teach him to say that.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I wouldnt mind a Doctor of any other race, or being a female, the most important thing is that it needs to be excellent as the doctor.

River's now done - or her main plot is, at least - and Capaldi is actually quite literally old enough to be Georgia's father, so it could now work. She could be the roving companion again, and a sort of spunky young girl who finds her eccentric father rather embarrassing could be quite fun with an older Doctor, I think. Plus, Moffat is so bloody pally-pally with that family, all their dinner dates and such. I don't imagine for a second the topic hasn't come off.

Could be really fun to watch, thats for sure.

 

[xandaca]

In my head canon changing genders is a choice, as statistically speaking 13 heads in a row in a system that should be heads or tails is, er... difficult to explain. We know that voluntary regenerations are more controlled, so I like to think that in a voluntary regeneration if a Time Lord wanted to be a woman - like the Corsair - they could make that change, influence it. Like a human choosing to have their gender reassigned. The Doctor is just dying in a less controlled manner each time, so he's defaulting to what he was born as each time. That's how I see it until the show proves to me otherwise.

I personally do sort of view the Doctor fundamentally as a male character, though, and I think the show would have to rejig his personality more forcefully than any other regeneration to sell that if he changed gender. Ethnicities - not so much. Bring on a black Doctor or an asian Doctor or whatever. There's just certain traits about the character that seem particularly masculine. They could be wiped away by regeneration, though. I wouldn't be mega upset if it happened, I'd embrace it.

I do agree that colour-blind casting can be dangerous, but I also agree with something Moffat said - If you set out to cast a white man, a woman, or a black man specifically, you've sort of already failed as they may not be the best person of the entire pool available to you. I do think Doctor Who has a duty to provide the young girls who watch it with positive female role models, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the Doctor. Moffat's era hasn't been great at that, but hopefully that improves.

PS: Know who'd make a great Doctor? Adrian Lester. He'd be fucking AMAZING. God. Incredible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFnkSGH3LL8 As of right now, he'd be my dream 13th.

What's Adrian Lester been in before? His face is familiar, but can't remember him from anything specific.

Obviously there's a lot more scope in Who to break the casting mould of the lead character, so to speak, so the be all end all is that if Moffat decides to go for a woman or a non-white man (or a non-white woman), it makes sense within the context of the fiction and thus isn't a big deal if it's the perfect person for the job. My issue is that, over fifty years, the Doctor has always been represented as a white male, and while that's not set in stone, just seems a bit odd to me he'd change ethnicity and/or gender now just because. In this case it makes more sense than, say, making James Bond black, but still seems a bit weird for a character established as one thing for so long. As I said, not really a big deal one way or the other, but colour blind casting to me is just an easy way for people to feel better about themselves when the underlying problem hasn't actually changed at all.

I am absolutely in favour of lead roles being written with the sole intention of casting a woman, non-white actor or any other minority: there's no question that television remains painfully whitewashed right now. More shows like Luther would be fantastic, and given that there are almost certainly a greater number of white actors than black actors (not only because of industry bias, but also basic population statistics), giving it a little push isn't a bad thing. I am, however, opposed to breaking the integrity of a fiction - again, not so serious in Doctor Who - just for the sake of putting a plaster over a serious wound. To use an analogy I think I just stole from Mad Men.

 

[Ashodin]

Fine fine...*grumbles* Amy! Get your coat.

Re: Female Doctor

It would be interesting. My ten year old son talked about it the other day.

Him: Mom, has the Doctor ever been a girl?
Me: Nope.
Him: Can he be?
Me: Sure it's possible.
Him: Well, I hope the next Doctor is a girl.
Me: Why?
Him: Because he's been a boy this whole time. It's sorta not fair, ya know? [Little Sister] needs someone to look up to just like I've got.

I swear I didn't teach him to say that.

These are the type of things that make your heart swell.

 

[APZonerunner]

There isn't anything preventing a woman from having some so-called masculine traits.

Although I am interested in knowing what these traits are that you think would have to be removed if the Doctor was a lady.

Well, maybe it's not so much traits as it is perception around it and how the show changes as a result; I'd be curious how the Doctor/Companion relationship would change, if it'd become a show primarily driven by two female leads or if she'd pick up a handsome young man instead, etcetera. I think there's a lot more factors about doing it than just making the pick, really. It'd require an adjustment to a lot of facets of the show, and I think that's why they're scared of it. So, wrong phrasing I suppose. It's not so much the traits of the character but I think the traits of the show to an extent. There's a lot of deeply entrenched perception they'd have to uproot.

Moffat said this time around it "didn't feel right," and by that I think he meant it felt too scary and different, really. That's a hill to climb. And it's incredibly difficult, because people feel passionately about it. Peter Davison came in for a ton of shit when he said he didn't think they should ever cast a woman in the role, for instance. "It's not like you'd have a female James Bond," he said, and then pointed to his own daughter's role as Jenny as a positive spin on the character without actually casting a female Doctor. Cue a shitstorm, obviously. I don't think he's right, really, but I do think it's a really difficult thing to do.

But, I reiterate the back half of the post you quoted: I do agree that colour-blind casting can be dangerous, but I also agree with something Moffat said - If you set out to cast a white man, a woman, or a black man specifically, you've sort of already failed as they may not be the best person of the entire pool available to you. They may not have always done this right. We know they auditioned black actors when they auditioned Matt. That's good. We don't know if they auditioned a woman, and that's a question that should be asked. If they didn't it's a problem. (Though at the time Moffat was terrified and wanted to play it safe to ensure his takeover wasn't branded a failure, so he'd never have done it anyway, I guess.) You need to cast the best actor for the role, not the best actor who is a woman, or who is black, in order to tick some demographic box. That's why I hated the backlash for the Capaldi thing; he's patently an amazing choice so, er, sod off with the accusing the show of being sexist for casting him at all? Moffat's Who has plenty of things you can level as sexism at it! That isn't one of them. I do think Doctor Who has a duty to provide the young girls who watch it with positive female role models, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the Doctor. Moffat's era has been a bit shit at that, admittedly - not just in women not written as well as under RTD, but also in that his show has refocused back onto the Doctor, where RTD's show was very obviously Rose/Martha/Donna's story about travelling with the Doctor, but hopefully that improves.

Like, in short, they should cast the best person for the role regardless of all those factors. There shouldn't be pitchforks out if that best person isn't brown or isn't female. As a mixed-race Brit who feels under-represented a lot on British TV, I was massively rooting for a black Doctor, but I wasn't salty when it was Capaldi because a lot of casting the Doctor isn't just about who is right for the role but also who is right for the role at the time you're in. Right now? I can't think of a better person than Capaldi. (As much as I like Paterson Joseph and Adrian Lester.)

 

[xandaca]

Point out where I called for someone to be cast because they are black/female.

You can't?

That's why it is a strawman.

However, I can point out where you say someone SHOULDN'T be cast because they are black/female.

Fair enough, I misread your first comment. If only you'd been able to phrase it in a less childish way, like the other people debating this point the thread, we might be getting somewhere. And you misread my comment as well: I never said someone shouldn't be cast due to their ethnicity/sex (apart from James Bond in my last comment, not directed at you), I asked why it needed to change rather than focusing on the bigger issue of not enough original lead roles being given to non-white/female actors.

 

[Fidelis Hodie]

I would like a female doctor, but more than anything I would like a male companion. I'm talking doctor + best friend ever, saving timelines and lives around the galaxy, one bromance at a time. Simon Pegg and Nick Frost status.

Fine fine...*grumbles* Amy! Get your coat.

Re: Female Doctor

It would be interesting. My ten year old son talked about it the other day.

Him: Mom, has the Doctor ever been a girl?
Me: Nope.
Him: Can he be?
Me: Sure it's possible.
Him: Well, I hope the next Doctor is a girl.
Me: Why?
Him: Because he's been a boy this whole time. It's sorta not fair, ya know? [Little Sister] needs someone to look up to just like I've got.

I swear I didn't teach him to say that.

Your kid is a boss and a gentleman in the making.

 

[APZonerunner]

What's Adrian Lester been in before? His face is familiar, but can't remember him from anything specific.

He's best known for Hustle. He did nine bloody series' of that, so despite doing film and a lot of theatre he's evidently not against signing on for long-term TV contracts.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I still want Hayley Atwell to be the first female Doctor

 

[xandaca]

I still want Hayley Atwell to be the first female Doctor

Well Hayley Atwell should just fill every role in everything because she's Hayley Atwell.

 

[fireside]

Well, maybe it's not so much traits as it is perception around it and how the show changes as a result; I'd be curious how the Doctor/Companion relationship would change, if it'd become a show primarily driven by two female leads or if she'd pick up a handsome young man instead, etcetera. I think there's a lot more factors about doing it than just making the pick, really. It'd require an adjustment to a lot of facets of the show, and I think that's why they're scared of it. So, wrong phrasing I suppose. It's not so much the traits of the character but I think the traits of the show to an extent. There's a lot of deeply entrenched perception they'd have to uproot.

Well, personally I think the whole Doctor/Companion relationship needs to change anyway. I'm not a big fan of having young pretty women with no life, dreams, or ambition being the Companion to the Magic Doctor who makes life worth living and the romantic undertones that frequently come with this. I think it's creepy.

Like, in short, they should cast the best person for the role regardless of all those factors.

I agree, the best person for the role should be picked. But it's highly likely that even if they are auditioning women for the role, the idea that the Doctor should be a man is so ingrained in their minds that they aren't going to pick a woman, no matter how great she is. So while you can certainly say that the fact that the Doctor has been a guy 13 times is due to "canon" reasons, it's certainly more likely that it's simply due to institutional and cultural biases against leading women in science fiction (or really, action-adventure (or really, leading roles in general)).

 

[APZonerunner]

Well, personally I think the whole Doctor/Companion relationship needs to change anyway. I'm not a big fan of having young pretty women with no life, dreams, or ambition being the Companion to the Magic Doctor who makes life worth living and the romantic undertones that frequently come with this. I think it's creepy.

Is that a problem with the Doctor or the Companion, though? Rose & Donna admittedly both had the "empty lives" thing going on, but those two were at least believable, real-feeling woman who I think were actually both fantastic role models for young girls. The thing about Rose is while she might have had that boring no-life council estate and chips life, that life has more in common with the average British young woman than not, really.

And Martha's fantastic for that - there's the icky unrequited love thing, but she's a go-getter, a career woman, and the glue that holds her family together. Amy and Clara have been a bt more blank, but that's been bloody discussed to death.

No doubt the companion relationship needs to change, but I think that's entirely unrelated to the Doctor gender/sexism debate other than the fact that if we actually had stronger and more outstanding female lead characters in Doctor Who there'd probably be a lot less clamouring for a female to be cast as the Doctor. I think a lot of the noise around the latter is a response at least to a certain degree for the former.

 

[xandaca]

Is that a problem with the Doctor or the Companion, though? Rose & Donna admittedly both had the "empty lives" thing going on, but those two were at least believable, real-feeling woman who I think were actually both fantastic role models for young girls. The thing about Rose is while she might have had that boring no-life council estate and chips life, that life has more in common with the average British young woman than not, really.

And Martha's fantastic for that - there's the icky unrequited love thing, but she's a go-getter, a career woman, and the glue that holds her family together. Amy and Clara have been a bit more blank, but that's been bloody discussed to death.

No doubt the companion relationship needs to change, but I think that's entirely unrelated to the Doctor gender/sexism debate other than the fact that if we actually had stronger and more outstanding female lead characters in Doctor Who there'd probably be a lot less clamouring for a female to be cast as the Doctor. I think a lot of the noise around the latter is a response at least to a certain degree for the former.

Agree with this. I think it's mostly Moffat's non-existent character writing which is diminishing the companions (and the Doctor, in fact) rather than the role itself. The companion will always be subservient to an extent, but when they're fully rounded and interesting individuals like RTDs trio, it doesn't bother me all that much. And double agree on Martha, who would've been a perfect companion but for her DoctorLust and later going all militaristic and inexplicably marrying Mickey (apparently for the sake of RTD making a 'Smith and Jones' gag).

 

[Hot Coldman]

Well Hayley Atwell should just fill every role in everything because she's Hayley Atwell.

yeah pretty much