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[CrunchyFrog]

God dammit, Avalanche, you had one job to do, make an open multiplayer Just Cause 3 with faction hideouts and map-wide objective based deathmatch but no, you had to go and say something stupid like this. This is Square's doing I know it, this and Bravely default. Holy balls this gen is going to blow hard. So glad I'm jumping into PC whole hog, though it won't come out completely unscathed either.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Is there anyone here who bought an Xbone and passed on Forza solely due to microtransactions?

I seem to remember a few people in the Forza monetisation thread saying just that.

Plenty of microtransaction defenders in that thread saying it was a load of hot air and pointless to whine, but the way I see it if it convinced a few people not to buy it then it wasn't a complete waste of time.

Edit: Here's a few -

Well this game just went from a day one* purchase to never. Those are absolutely ridiculous.

*day one being when I buy my Xbox.

Spot on. I hope that Microsoft realises that while they might make a comfortable profit in the short term by nickle and diming the ignorant and the foolish, this kind of abhorrent behavior completely dissuades me from investing in the platform.

To put things in simple terms for the monkeys at Microsoft:

• I was going to buy an Xbox One for Forza 5
• I am now -once again- completely disinterested in the platform and will be directing my expendable income towards Nintendo and Sony this holiday period

A bunch of dudes I know have decided to not buy it cuz of the micro transactions.

Thanks for the thread, was thinking of buying this but now I won't bite the bullet.

 

[NullPointer]

What is the deal with software and services these days?

Its not about building the better mousetrap and actually over-delivering on value. Its about bait and switch. You just keep putting something out there until you find the something that people really respond to and enjoy, only to follow it up by adding layer upon layer of bullshit before twisting the screws.

People will spend money on the things that aren't trying to rip them off or dupe them. You don't actually have to try and fool the end user or try chatting us up while reaching your arms around back to fumble for our wallet.

Provide meaty content that people can feel good about and they will pay.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I'll just stick with my Wii U, then.

 

[Margalis]

What is the deal with software and services these days?

The player base is not really expanding. The Wii tried to tap into a new audience but most traditional publishers aren't interested in that audience. Growth in video games has largely been based on expansions into new regions and new regions are drying up.

The only thing left is to wring more money out of the existing customer base. People like to say that games still only cost $60, but many games these days are designed to draw $150 or more out of consumers.

There's no way companies can actually charge $150 for a game, so special editions, DLC, micro-transactions, season passes, etc, are what's left.

 

[EGM1966]

Not if enough people don't buy into it. I won't be.

 

[NullPointer]

There's no way companies can actually charge $150 for a game, so special editions, DLC, micro-transactions, season passes, etc, are what's left.

At this point a game like Forza 5 certainly could. Just put out a $150 collector's edition that gets you every last bit of content in the game and any and all content that will be made for it. But they won't because they can make far more than even $150 from their whales. So we see $150 collector's editions anyway, and you'll be lucky if they even include a season pass. Its absurd.

We can literally hear these publishers licking their lips, and its like, hey buddy, we're right here in the room, and we can fucking hear you.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

You're going to like it damn it.

Via Gamespot

Fuck this bullshit.

 

[Danneee]

I'm sure publishers and some developers would love that. It just proves how far detached they are from their audience. Shame.

Edit: and if you put out a game with bullshit DLC/micro transactions/subscriptions I'm not buying it. There's enough good games without it out there.

 

[Acorn]

He should post an Obama deal with it picture to emphasise his point.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

and the game industry's death spiral continues

 

[Shambles]

Well... there goes JC3

 

[nai]

And I won't be buying those games. It's that simple.

 

[dyergram]

I don't like the idea of micro transactions but deep down looks good I guess.

 

[Goldmund]

People desperately clinging to the present telling us what the future is, again.

 

[michaelx]

I don't like the idea of micro transactions but deep down looks good I guess.

Deep Down is F2P, so no loss there.

 

[J10]

There's no way companies can actually charge $150 for a game, so special editions, DLC, micro-transactions, season passes, etc, are what's left.

Here's the thing: They could charge $150 if there were $150 worth of content in the game! It doesn't make sense that a game like Skyrim and a game like Mirror's Edge - both of which are fantastic - are launched at the same $60 price point when they both offer a wildly different amount of playable content. A game like Skyrim that goes on forever and ever would be justified at a higher price point - maybe not $150 necessarily, but certainly should cost more than Mirror's Edge, which is done and over with in 10-12 hours on the hardest difficulty. The flat rate pricing model doesn't always make more sense either.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

At this point a game like Forza 5 certainly could. Just put out a $150 collector's edition that gets you every last bit of content in the game and any and all content that will be made for it. But they won't because they can make far more than even $150 from their whales. So we see $150 collector's editions anyway, and you'll be lucky if they even include a season pass. Its absurd.

We can literally hear these publishers licking their lips, and its like, hey buddy, we're right here in the room, and we can fucking hear you.

Exactly, it's shameless. I know some people are saying "Hey, I'm loving Forza 5. That token stuff doesn't affect my experience. I won't buy them". That's great, and for some people I'm sure it is about the journey rather than the destination, and they genuinely aren't fussed about unlocking everything.

But the game most likely has been designed with them in mind. They're hoping to catch a whale, one that keeps playing and playing, until they reach a point, maybe 100 hours in, 150 hours in, maybe 200 hours in, whenever, where they still haven't unlocked all the cars. And they look over at the token price and think, "Hmm, I've spent so much time on this game now. I want to finish it, but it's just going to take me too long to get enough credits by racing." And they pull the trigger and buy the rest of the cars. Big money for the pub / dev.

Now they've got a pretty clear motive to tweak certain parameters during the creation of the game to maximise the likelihood of that above scenario happening. Increasing the price of vehicles, reducing the number of credits earned per race, etc. You end up with a different game, one where it's not possible to unlock everything in a reasonable amount of time. And it's insidious, because it preys on the compulsive 'completionist' mindset, and there are plenty with that mindset in gaming. It's the exact reason why f2p took off, and now they've somehow found a way to make people buy f2p games. Astonishing.

 

[Bedlam]

and the game industry's death spiral continues

I actually think this may lead to another crash.

Even though the methods to suck money out of consumers' wallets become more sinister and effective, the overall spending capacity doesn't magically increase.

When someone is heavily invested in Forza 5, for example, and spends hundreds of dollars on that game, he is less likely to spend money on other games. This may lead to the situation we had with mmo's, where lots of products fiercely compete with each other and only few of them actually become successful. And when publishers on top of that alienate non-whale consumers, it might mean trouble for them in the long term.

Anyway, I'm not going to be part of that. There will always be SP games from non-greedy developers who make games because they love doing it and therefore won't sacrify the integrity of their product for some greedy monetization schemes.. Like the Witcher series, for example.

 

[Ryuuga]

I'll just stick with my Wii U, then.

Wii U isn't next-gen? Or is the implication that Nintendo home consoles are exempt because most publishers have all but ignored it's existence?

 

[Kosma]

Here's the thing: They could charge $150 if there were $150 worth of content in the game! It doesn't make sense that a game like Skyrim and a game like Mirror's Edge - both of which are fantastic - are launched at the same $60 price point when they both offer a wildly different amount of playable content. A game like Skyrim that goes on forever and ever would be justified at a higher price point - maybe not $150 necessarily, but certainly should cost more than Mirror's Edge, which is done and over with in 10-12 hours on the hardest difficulty. The flat rate pricing model doesn't always make more sense either.

Wow how can you be so wrong.

Its Skyrim that has finite gameplay while Mirrors Edge has infinite replayability.

One is a shallow shell of a world filled with tedious fetch quests and simple combat, the other is an original masterfully crafted 3D platformer where you can hone your skills and do speedruns.

 

[NullPointer]

But the game most likely has been designed with them in mind. They're hoping to catch a whale, one that keeps playing and playing, until they reach a point, maybe 100 hours in, 150 hours in, maybe 200 hours in, whenever, where they still haven't unlocked all the cars. And they look over at the token price and think, "Hmm, I've spent so much time on this game now. I want to finish it, but it's just going to take me too long to get enough credits by racing." And they pull the trigger and buy the rest of the cars. Big money for the pub / dev.

Exactly. And they can always put those token packs on sale down the line to reel more in.

 

[Nev]

Seriously now, Nintendo is safe. The publishers who do this kind of shit don't even care about Nintendo anymore. And Nintendo themselves would not do this. Sadly people would rather put up with this instead of going Nintendo :/

Sadly Nintendo got itself out of the equation by releasing a 7 years old hardware.

 

[Outtrigger888]

Not with Nintendo...i hope.

 

[Kosma]

Exactly. And they can always put those token packs on sale down the line to reel more in.

Weekend sale! Get your tokens half price!

Horrible stuff

 

[Skyrim]

He's saying next gen not this gen

 

[Outtrigger888]

Man, the salt in this thread, when Nintendo gets mentioned....im out.

 

[michaelx]

Not with Nintendo...i hope.

Bravely Default and SMTIV say hi.

 

[Krusenstern]

It's easy. I won't participate in that garbage.

 

[PROOP]

That's what Microsoft said about always online and digital until the consumers loudly rejected it.

This totally. It's simple economics; if the market supports the business model, it will promulgate and spread, but if the market doesn't, it will simply go away.

 

[Rush2thestart]

Good thing Nintendo isnt next-gen right guys?

 

[NullPointer]

This totally. It's simple economics; if the market supports the business model, it will promulgate and spread, but if the market doesn't, it will simply go away.

And you know when you have a great business model because you don't end up broadcasting a message to your potential customers to "get used to it".

That's a pretty fucking big red flag right there.

 

[astarisborn94]

I actually think this may lead to another crash.

Even though the methods to suck money out of consumers' wallets become more sinister and effective, the overall spending capacity doesn't magically increase.

When someone is heavily invested in Forza 5, for example, and spends hundreds of dollars on that game, he is less likely to spend money on other games. This may lead to the situation we had with mmo's, where lots of products fiercely compete with each other and only few of them actually become successful. And when publishers on top of that alienate non-whale consumers, it might mean trouble for them in the long term.

Anyway, I'm not going to be part of that. There will always be SP games from non-greedy developers who make games because they love doing it and therefore won't sacrify the integrity of their product for some greedy monetization schemes.. Like the Witcher series, for example.

I don't think the video game industry will ever suffer a crash as badly as the one we got in the early 1980s (in the West) because of how diversified it is now and how massive the gaming industry has become. But if crash indicates significant decline to where a complete overhaul must be done to learn from the mistakes of the past, then I wouldn't be surprised to see this gen be the beginning of a sharp decline. The game industry probably needs a significant decline in gaming anyway; I can't see it expand forever with all of the shady practices going around today.

 

[vcc]

Yep. I was watching that on Twitch. The dude playing Ryse was dumbfounded that it of all games had a $20 Season Pass, in-game gold purchases to lessen the grind, etc.

Completely turned me off of that system.

Have you noticed the trend where MS messes up, Sony is painted with the same brush unless they explicitly deny it and demonstrate their position. That was sort of what I was replying to, MS takes a disagreeable position, Sony takes heat for it. I've noticed it a lot. Like when PCMasterRace people talk about under powered machines, they'll use XB1 stats and benchmarks then speak about how it's why they won't get a PS4; or the whole DRM thing; or the paywalling of all online services; or 360 RROD failures. For some reasons Sony's mistakes are their own while Microsofts mistakes are 'both' of them.

Despite being in a worse financial position they have done as many cash grabs lately. The PS4 exclusives didn't have F2P mechanics built in, although GT6 will have some. KZ, Resogun, Knack all lack that sort of monitization and the games that do were ACTUALLY F2P.

 

[Principate]

Bravely Default and SMTIV say hi.

Those aren't Nintendo games.... (hell Nintendo only publishes one of the those in the west).

Fire emblem would be a better example though Animal crossing serves as a good counter.

 

[Origami Superman]

Pretty inevitable really. I'll continue to stick with Nintendo first party / the PC indie scene until they jump on this bandwagon.

 

[RaikuHebi]

 

[notoccupanther]

Its unfortunate that the worship of the moolah exposes how dumb some developers are.

Spoiler

granted games are increasing in scale these days and this costs extra, but 100 fuckin dollars extra for an unlock!!! No, no, no, no, no, no, no...

Cant they see the whole concept of storytelling is severely compromised because they'll have to alter it in some shape or form to include micro payments to hold the game to ransom?

Greedy little Piggys
Feed your bellies with micropennies

 

[ChiefofCitadelSecurity]

Stuff like this is why I'm glad Nintendo's ass is still here.

 

[Rolodzeo]

It's ok, I won't support the direction this industry is heading. Retro is where I'll play and enjoy my hobby then.

 

[Velcro Fly]

What is with all the hate SMT4 is getting around here lately...

 

[Heimbeck]

Stuff like this is why I'm glad Nintendo's ass is still here.

Nintendo are doomed to failure if they do not accept these changes in gaming, they are nearly doomed now but not fucking over their customers is enough to destory the entire company.

 

[MoGamesXNA]

.

 

[SneakyStephan]

No just cause 3 for me then
I was looking forward to that game for years now... I even bought renegade ops at launch

principles > being a slave to my hobby

 

[Kouriozan]

That just mean less games to buy for me, I'm ok with that

 

[Grief.exe]

And I continue to be disenfranchised from the AAA game market.

This is perfectly fine, the majority of GAF isn't even the target demographic anymore. AAA games are becoming so dumbed down and homogenized to appeal to the lowest common denominator, its difficult to call some of them games anymore.

Just leave some of my favorite franchises alone, you've taken enough already.

Its ironic since people in my demographic also tend to have the most disposable income, yet they continue to to market towards a 12 year-old audience and the dudebro.

 

[Fugu]

It may very well be the next generation of the monetization of games but it has nothing to do with the next generation of gameplay.

Unfortunately, advancing that front hasn't been a priority to most developers for quite some time.

 

[BPoole]

Not if enough people don't buy into it. I won't be.

These types of models cost them next to nothing to implement, so any additional money they gain through it is pure profit.

 

[ksdixon]

I think there's a difference between someting that's always bene free to play, and something that later became free to play in order to survive etc. Gotham City Imposters and DC Universe come to mind, when thinking of how free to play could be seen as low quality. Those two were previously 'normal' games.

 

[cuyahoga]

IIRC the Just Cause 3 team had a dedicated monetization person at one point.

Good news for everyone: indie games exist.