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Doctor Who 50th Anniversary |OT| Splendid Chap, All Of Them

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Blader said:
As much as I liked the episode and thought it was a nice way to celebrate the show, it's a shame that one of my lasting impressions of the special is and (for a while I imagine) will be "fuck Eccleston fuck Eccleston fuck Eccleston." Wish he would just get the hell over whatever pissed him off *eight years* ago.
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Gully State said:
Same...just imagining how much more epic some of the scenes could've been with Eccleston actually in it just pisses me off. After Baker, he is my favorite Doctor.
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As I said in here a bit ago, I think what I really would've wanted is for him to show up for just one line. Let the regeneration finish, then he pops out, looks at his hands... and remembers (incorrectly) what he has done. He looks at his hands. "What have I done...?" Cut. Bam. Enough. Would've been much clearer, too, if it wasn't clear enough already - I've had to deal with explaining to some unclear mates tonight.

It's a shame. I think now, having seen the part, it's clear that the spoiler people are right and it probably was written for him. Moffat & co have been very gracious in interviews, but that same spoiler person said that he messed them about and changed at the last minute, and I think that's probably likely, especially considering we have a new interview with Hurt today where he says he only got the call about the part six days before filming began.

Still, Hurt was magnificent, so it is what it is, and the part would've required too much rewriting for McGann. It was still excellent! Just, Eccleston... what a bastard, man.

It's funny how this stuff goes, though. Sometimes it comes down to more than loyalty. Tennant didn't do the big convention in London because when he spoke to his father in law, Davison, he found out he was being lowballed on money for it! Allegedly.
 
So wait, Eccleston hates the Doctor Who franchise now or something? Is he in the phase that Shatner was in when he told Star Trek fans to get a life?
 
Quite liked it!

Few random thoughts.

1. Didn't care for the actress who played the queen but her breast were superb.
2. Had a good laugh at Hurt's Doctor being flabbergasted by how the other two doctors talked.
3. I always thought that Galifrey was essentially "sealed" in a time lock, hearing it was burned during this was a surprise...only to learn my original belief turned out to be more or less true to begin with!
4. The Doctors. All the doctors. Nerdgasm.
5. For a moment I thought the statues were going to be weeping angels.
6. Wasn't that the crack on the monitor of the Tardis?
7. Baker! What a surprise.
8. Doctor shot at the end, glorious even if still pictures of that kinda ruin it.

The Five(ish) Doctors was awesome as well.
 
firehawk12 said:
So wait, Eccleston hates the Doctor Who franchise now or something? Is he in the phase that Shatner was in when he told Star Trek fans to get a life?
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Know how Baker had an issue with the franchise for....how long?! Eccleston has basically taken that role up while Baker has mellowed out now.
 
firehawk12 said:
So wait, Eccleston hates the Doctor Who franchise now or something? Is he in the phase that Shatner was in when he told Star Trek fans to get a life?
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He's in a funny place. He had a bad experience on-set during Series One, and that's why he decided to leave. When he spoke about why he went, he said he "didn't like the on-set culture" and that he thought about staying on but "to stay, I would've had to eat a lot of shit." There's reports he had blazing rows on-set with one of the directors - lots of swearing, stuff thrown and kicked etcetera. At one point he famously screamed "At least I don't have to watch this shit!"

So, yeah. He still gets on with RTD, though, for what it's worth. Reports are it was the sort of middle-ground management he didn't get on with. It sounds like he didn't get on with Phil Collinson (Producer, Series 1-4), who was allegedly quite hard-nosed and inflexible, and struggled with a few of Series 1's Directors, plus problems with production and scheduling as they struggled to figure out what the show was and how to make it. Collinson scheduled it like a normal drama (who wouldn't?) but they quickly discovered the number of FX shots and things mean Doctor Who takes two or three times as long to shoot. It's quite famous that one week into the first episode they did, Aliens of London, they were three weeks behind! Which may well be a contribution to a pretty solid script falling short on screen.

So that's why he left. I don't think that's why he isn't coming back, though. He's in that sort of Tom Baker (or indeed Shatner) area now where he's slightly ashamed of aspects of the role - the way it dominates his career, Doctor Who fans turning up to plays he's in, being asked about it in every single bloody interview, etcetera. He sees himself as - to quote Hartnell - a legitimate character actor - and for anyone like that to be tied so intrinsically to one role is probably heartbreaking.

He also makes clear in almost every interview he does that he took on the role of the Doctor for two reasons - one was RTD, but the other was the kids. He wanted to play a character for kids, which he never usually does, doing the gritty drama he does. He views Who has a TV show for children with meat enough that adults won't get bored watching it. He has no interest in the older Who fanbase, and quite recently said he thought the show's modern sci-fi popularity with a much older audience in the US was "utter insanity" and "wrong", so that's where he stands there. Ho hum.

He's the new Tom, basically.
 
Watching it the second time-John Hurt's performance when he is about to push the button, and the other two Doctors help him to carry the burden, and he mutters "Thank you..."

It's very sad. What a great-if brief performance.
 
I loved Eccleston's portrayal of the Doctor. It really fit the series well and would have loved to see more of him.
A shame he had such a bad falling out with the crew and the series as a whole.
 
firehawk12 said:
What's funny about that is that he then went and did Heroes.

Although I guess he's "lucky" that Heroes turned into such a turd and no one remembers the show nowadays.
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To quote him:
"I've done some films and things in America, and I use the term 'films' lightly. But they allowed me to come back and work for my favourite charity, the BBC. That's a John Cleese quote."​

He doesn't give a shit. I'm amazed he continues to get work in Hollywood. At the UK GI Joe Premiere he told Press he'd only agreed to do the film to pay for a new dining room table or something. He's your typical abrasive northerner! (With apologies to Northern UK GAF!)
 
I have hopes that he will return for a special episode for the 10th anniversary of New Who. Maybe even have it penned by RTD, that'd be cool.
 
celebi23 said:
Might anyone have a non-uk version/link for this youtube video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UVt0NF5j0g

Pity the BBC put it up for UK viewers only :/
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I'm sure somebody'll have a naughty one, but it's UK only because this is added to the end of cinema showings outside the UK as an exclusive bonus for cinema-goers. They weren't allowed to do that in the UK, because the rules on gating BBC content behind paywalls of any sort are archaic.
 
APZonerunner said:
I'm sure somebody'll have a naughty one, but it's UK only because this is added to the end of cinema showings outside the UK as an exclusive bonus for cinema-goers. They weren't allowed to do that in the UK, because the rules on gating BBC content behind paywalls of any sort are archaic.
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Ah, didn't realize it was a bonus for cinema-goers. Maybe I'll just have to wait for the Blu-Ray or when/if it shows up on iTunes.
 
APZonerunner said:
Yeah, but how do you bury a regenerated body? Unless the Doctor already knows he's used his regeneration energy, but it he does, why did he try to regenerate in Let's Kill Hitler?
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What do you mean bury a regenerated body? We already saw his corpse, his timeline. How he avoids that is not known.

As far as his regeneration energy, that is what people don't know. He knows he is going to die for good, he knows what that means. Moffat cannot ignore the 13 regeneration rule, and he apparently has a way to circumvent this. He even accelerated the 11th into being the 13th regeneration, apparently. I am hoping for a way that explains how/why he was able to start regenerating and could use regeneration energy.
 
APZonerunner said:
He's in a funny place. He had a bad experience on-set during Series One, and that's why he decided to leave. When he spoke about why he went, he said he "didn't like the on-set culture" and that he thought about staying on but "to stay, I would've had to eat a lot of shit." There's reports he had blazing rows on-set with one of the directors - lots of swearing, stuff thrown and kicked etcetera. At one point he famously screamed "At least I don't have to watch this shit!"

So, yeah. He still gets on with RTD, though, for what it's worth. Reports are it was the sort of middle-ground management he didn't get on with. It sounds like he didn't get on with Phil Collinson (Producer, Series 1-4), who was allegedly quite hard-nosed and inflexible, and struggled with a few of Series 1's Directors, plus problems with production and scheduling as they struggled to figure out what the show was and how to make it. Collinson scheduled it like a normal drama (who wouldn't?) but they quickly discovered the number of FX shots and things mean Doctor Who takes two or three times as long to shoot. It's quite famous that one week into the first episode they did, Aliens of London, they were three weeks behind! Which may well be a contribution to a pretty solid script falling short on screen.

So that's why he left. I don't think that's why he isn't coming back, though. He's in that sort of Tom Baker (or indeed Shatner) area now where he's slightly ashamed of aspects of the role - the way it dominates his career, Doctor Who fans turning up to plays he's in, being asked about it in every single bloody interview, etcetera. He sees himself as - to quote Hartnell - a legitimate character actor - and for anyone like that to be tied so intrinsically to one role is probably heartbreaking.

He also makes clear in almost every interview he does that he took on the role of the Doctor for two reasons - one was RTD, but the other was the kids. He wanted to play a character for kids, which he never usually does, doing the gritty drama he does. He views Who has a TV show for children with meat enough that adults won't get bored watching it. He has no interest in the older Who fanbase, and quite recently said he thought the show's modern sci-fi popularity with a much older audience in the US was "utter insanity" and "wrong", so that's where he stands there. Ho hum.

He's the new Tom, basically.
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And then he played Malekith.

Yep, that's waaaay better than this.
 
Good lord so now Stephen Moffat has written for the 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and war Doctors. That's 8 now. Is there any chance his record will ever be beaten??
 
APZonerunner said:
To quote him:
"I've done some films and things in America, and I use the term 'films' lightly. But they allowed me to come back and work for my favourite charity, the BBC. That's a John Cleese quote."​
He doesn't give a shit. I'm amazed he continues to get work in Hollywood. At the UK GI Joe Premiere he told Press he'd only agreed to do the film to pay for a new dining room table or something. He's your typical abrasive northerner! (With apologies to Northern UK GAF!)
Click to expand...
Haha, I almost appreciate his abrasiveness. lol
 
marrec said:
And then he played Malekith.

Yep, that's waaaay better than this.
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Not that I'm any less disappointed that Eccleston didn't show up in the 50th (which was awesome even without him), nor does it excuse things, but I will say that Thor2 was much better than I expected, and a good deal better than the usual crap Chris seems to do for a paycheck.
 
odiin said:
Good lord so now Stephen Moffat has written for the 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and war Doctors. That's 8 now. Is there any chance his record will ever be beaten??
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Probably not until we've had a good few more Doctors. Strong chance that whoever is in charge in 25 years will have a greater pool of living & visually viable Doctors to choose from, though! Weren't some of the lines in the other Doctors turning up all-new voice dialogue, too? If so, that stock rises further still...

Trike said:
What do you mean bury a regenerated body? We already saw his corpse, his timeline. How he avoids that is not known.

As far as his regeneration energy, that is what people don't know. He knows he is going to die for good, he knows what that means. Moffat cannot ignore the 13 regeneration rule, and he apparently has a way to circumvent this. He even accelerated the 11th into being the 13th regeneration, apparently. I am hoping for a way that explains how/why he was able to start regenerating and could use regeneration energy.
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Ah, see what you mean. The line "It's my tomb. It's where I'm buried." kept sticking in my mind, but of course it's not a typical tomb. Curious how the regeneration stuff pans out. He's used it, but only to heal River's wrist, which was a small amount, perhaps not so much that he'd have to have a full regen left - the lake regen start was a fake. It's complicated, god.
 
Mister Saturn said:
Not that I'm any less disappointed that Eccleston didn't show up in the 50th (which was awesome even without him), nor does it excuse things, but I will say that Thor2 was waaaay better than I expected, and a good deal better than the usual crap Chris seems to do for a paycheck.
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Thor 2's greatness had nothing to do with a silicone clad Eccleston playing a 3rd tier villain.

It was good in spite of him.

What I'm saying is, fuck that guy and his pretensions of grandeur.

Edit:

He would have found a much bigger and more receptive audience in Nu Who 50.
 
APZonerunner said:
I'm sure somebody'll have a naughty one, but it's UK only because this is added to the end of cinema showings outside the UK as an exclusive bonus for cinema-goers. They weren't allowed to do that in the UK, because the rules on gating BBC content behind paywalls of any sort are archaic.
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Didn't appear in the Australian cinema screenings unfortunately (or at least it didn't in the one I went to). Hopefully it'll be on the DVD/BDs.
 
APZonerunner said:
Ah, see what you mean. The line "It's my tomb. It's where I'm buried." kept sticking in my mind, but of course it's not a typical tomb. Curious how the regeneration stuff pans out. He's used it, but only to heal River's wrist, which was a small amount, perhaps not so much that he'd have to have a full regen left - the lake regen start was a fake. It's complicated, god.
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Didn't River give up what was left of her Regenerations to him as well at one point? Or am I misremembering?
 
marrec said:
Thor 2's greatness had nothing to do with a silicone clad Eccleston playing a 3rd tier villain.

It was good in spite of him.

What I'm saying is, fuck that guy and his pretensions of grandeur.

Edit:

He would have found a much bigger and more receptive audience in Nu Who 50.
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Chris was as good as he could be given the costume and material. Thor 2 has plenty of problems, but he isn't one of them.
 
I think not having Eccleston in this turned out to be a good thing. Hurt was brilliant (and I am sad we are not going to have more episodes with him) and it also sold the idea that he is not one of "The Doctor"s.
 
Jorok Goldblade said:
She channeled all of her regeneration energy into him to clear out the poison. It didn't necessarily recharge his own supply.
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So it's one of those ambiguous things where we know it's possible to spend regeneration energy with the possibility of losing regens.. but it's never said if another person could recharge regen energy with their own?
 
APZonerunner said:
Well, he was going to use The Moment. We never really learn what it is, other than that it is a weapon with a conscience, which is why it shows the War Doctor the Bad Wolf and has her guide him through the situation. The thing he would have done would be to use the Moment, which we can assume - based on dialogue from 9/10, would've made everybody burn in a massive explosion, indiscriminate to side or race. Because the War Doctor (and the Tenth) both forget the events, he regenerates into Eccleston and believes the last thing he can remember prior to being put into the multi-Doctor paradox - so that he was about to press the button and wipe out all the Time Lords and Daleks in one go. From his perspective he is about to pull the trigger, then wakes up as 9. He probably thinks the regeneration was caused by the weapon, too.

In The End of Time, it's prior to that. The Time Lords know that he has possession of The Moment - we see them discover the fact in this episode - and they panic. There's two sides of Gallifrey to us at this time - the military command and the high council. We saw the military command tonight. They comment that the high council have sealed themselves away in a closed panic session. That panic session is the one seen in The End of Time, with a crazed Rassillon making his play with the Master.

I'd guess events are linear and time still passes there after the War Doctor jumps through the portal the Bad Wolf/Moment opens. In that time, Gallifrey disappears and is replaced by Earth as part of Rassilon's plan. The Master and The Doctor reverse it, and Gallifrey is put back before the War Doctor, Ten and Eleven do their thing. They go to work and Gallifrey is saved, but lost in a pocket universe that presumably will take time to find.The interesting thing, though, is this means on that Gallifrey there's a mental, revived, maniacal Rassilon and a slightly reformed Master who actually did the right thing, alive and kicking! That could be interesting. It might well be the best thing this episode has given us, in fact.

Having seen it now and heard all Hurt's lines in action - plus him saying he took the job only 4 days before filming began(!), I do think that his role was written for Eccleston. It'd be exactly the same sans the regeneration, and the cliffhanger at the end of Series 7 would've been worded differently - like there's a time I've tried very hard to forget, rather than a face, or whatever. But this sounded so very much written for Eccleston, adjusted back later. Nothing wrong with that, but it's an additional complicating wrinkle!



Yeah, perhaps. It depends how long Moffat is staying for, I guess. He's doing Series 8, but what about 9? If both or more, I could see him bringing back the Time Lords later on. Doubt he'll do it in Capaldi's first series. That said - a well-known, correct spoiler hound teased the end of Smith's era and the final moments at Christmas by saying "Where do things go from here?!" -- so maybe there's yet another significant paradigm shift incoming, and maybe it involves the Time Lords. Don't think it does, though. If anything, given the revelations tonight - that the Eleventh Doctor is actually the twelfth (and remembering that the Tenth wasted a regeneration), it'll probably be related to the regen limit.



I reckon the dialogue surrounding the tomb is misleading as to what it is. I have a feeling it might be 11's tomb, though that doesn't explain the dead TARDIS.
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Man, as much as all this works it's still incredibly convoluted, even for Stephen Moffat. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but the events surrounding the timelocking of the time war are now really hard to understand.
 
Zen said:
Chris was as good as he could be given the costume and material. Thor 2 has plenty of problems, but he isn't one of them.
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I think the point is that Eccleston keeps taking these shitty roles for the paycheque. He's not saying he was the problem with Thor 2, he's annoyed he took the role.

[edit] Actually re-reading you may be right. The above is my issue with Eccleston, at any rate.

[oops, thought this thread was moving faster than that]
 
Jest Chillin said:
So it's one of those ambiguous things where we know it's possible to spend regeneration energy with the possibility of losing regens.. but it's never said if another person could recharge regen energy with their own?
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It's all silly anyway. We all know that they will find a way to go around it. When they come up with the limit, I don't think they had any idea it would even get close to it.
 
On an entirely different note, I'm a bit sad at how much Colin Baker let himself go. :( At least McCoy and Davison still kinda look like themselves.
 
DarkFlow said:
It's all silly anyway. We all know that they will find a way to go around it. When they come up with the limit, I don't think they had any idea it would even get close to it.
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Exactly, I think they just pulled a number out of the air thinking the show would never go that long to worry about it.
 
Well, that was a big . . . what do you nerds call it . . . retcon?


It's Doctor Who, so I guess my mind is used to this kind of five minute explanations.
 
My word. That was brilliant.

When Tennant first appeared on screen I think I flipped out a bit. I had forgot how much I had missed him.
And the banter between him and Smith in the forest.
Brilliant! I loved how Hurt called them out on pointing their Sonic Screwdrivers at everyone. That really is incredibly stupid.

So are we in agreement that Hurt is actually a Doctor now? Smith seems to come to terms with him being a Doctor and so does Hurt.

Good stuff.
 
Quick said:
Old age.

No fucks given at this point.
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Yeah, I guess. Depressing really.

On the bright side, I'm delighted there was a Captain Jack Harkness reference, but did we ever find out what Clara did with the Vortex Manipulator? Does she still have it!?

And is "Silence Will Fall" the name of the Christmas episode!? So many questions!
 
maharg said:
Why should that be depressing? Let the man live how he wants.
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That's fine, I'm not telling him how to live his life. It's simply depressing to me because I hope not to be the same myself. Hope that's understandable, and if the guy's happy, then it's no skin off my bones. More power to him.
 
What a fantastic episode. Though I do agree with the complaints about the reinterpretation of the time war. The way it was described before was beyond epic, so I understand toning it down a bit.

Oh and having Tom Baker come back as a distant future retired Doctor reusing the 4th's face was brilliant. I kinda hope they have more multiple Doctor stories in the future and not just save them for be the big anniversaries. The way everyone played off each other was great.
 
SpudBud said:
What a fantastic episode. Though I do agree with the complaints about the reinterpretation of the time war. The way it was described before was beyond epic, so I understand toning it down a bit.

Oh and having Tom Baker come back as a distant future retired Doctor reusing the 4th's face was brilliant. I kinda hope they have more multiple Doctor stories in the future and not just save them for be the big anniversaries. The way everyone played off each other was great.
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Well, this was only the last moments of the Time War. Way more epic stuff happened still offscreen.

Hurt after all started his regen off young.
 
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