LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
You know........there's many fine clinics near you son.
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Any longterm Nintendo fans find the low tech route frustrating?
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You know........there's many fine clinics near you son.
Let's not go there. To say that Nintendo completely predicted the way the Wii would sell is ridiculous. They took a concept that hadn't been touched on for a quite a while and made it appeal to casual players which took off. It just as easily could have went the other way and it was a little bit of the luck that helped them out there.
D.Lo
Member
Nice prediction with no evidence. 3DS is well on track to hit at least 80 million. Likely 100. So Nintendo's last THREE consoles will have sold at least 80 million, and you're predicting 20.
I predict the Wii U will sail past the GCN's total within 1.5 years easily, and easily reach 50 mill. From there on it's up to other market factors.
faceless007
Member
It's probably true that luck played a part in the Wii's success; what I don't understand is why luck supposedly played a greater part for Nintendo than it did for any console maker.
Right. Marketing, a revolutionary concept implemented well, constrained stock for over a year, and casual enticement with games such as Wii sports and wii fit all on the back bone of nintendo's strategy and operation had nothing to do with it. Sure, no one, nintendo included expected it'd catch fire as well as it had, but luck had little to do with it selling well.
Exactly. If one was to say Nintendo were lucky with the wii and they don't know what they are doing with the wii u based on 2 months worth of sales, surely they would say exactly the same same with Sony as the PS3 and Vita are way down on there predecessors.
Shit Sony managed to lose a whole console market they dominated in a generation.
Road of Ease
Member
Not really. I like affordable consoles with tons of games, which is why I just bought a PS3 and will not buy a Wii U - or any other next-gen console - any time soon.
Also, I never really cared about the fact that Nintendo didn't adopt HD with the Wii back then. On the contrary, it paid of hugely for them, as I expected.
However, I do think that they'd be better off if they launched Wii U in its present state one or two years earlier.
Also, I never really cared about the fact that Nintendo didn't adopt HD with the Wii back then. On the contrary, it paid of hugely for them, as I expected.
However, I do think that they'd be better off if they launched Wii U in its present state one or two years earlier.
That I agree with. When the wii was dead the wii u should of been ready to drop.
Marketing? Sure it was great.
Revolutionary concept implemented well? I'll give you the implemented well but let's not forget Sony was experimenting with the prototype of Move back in the early 2000s and started the ball on motion controls with Eyetoy. Again, this could have went either way.
Everything else is really based on Nintendo scoping out the market at the time but I digress. Look, no one is trying to take away what the Wii did last generation but let's be honest; Nintendo caught lightning in a bottle that they obviously haven't caught with the Wii U and 3DS (except in Japan). Nintendo did their homework but they didn't control every little thing that went into the Wii selling how it did. That's the "luck" everyone keeps referring to. In any case, the subject is riling up Nintendo fans so I'll let it be.
Omnistalgic
Member
Games=experiences...and people will go crazy over fresh new experiences that entertain you. Books aren't all going digitial and 3D to immerse you more into the world, neither is every movie trying to be the next Avatar (although it was a slight boom to cash-in)
In like manner, the experience will always be what matters, and WiiU so far looks set to deliver some fantastic ones. And to be honest, I'm really not bummed about the power difference because I can always pick up Ps4/720 which will likely have a ton of different experiences.
Nintendo diversified themselves by jumping out of the tech race and focusing on experiences, now a Ninty platform looks very different from what Sony/MS are doing, for better or worse...
But hey, I'll support em as long as there's something I want to buy on it...
In like manner, the experience will always be what matters, and WiiU so far looks set to deliver some fantastic ones. And to be honest, I'm really not bummed about the power difference because I can always pick up Ps4/720 which will likely have a ton of different experiences.
Nintendo diversified themselves by jumping out of the tech race and focusing on experiences, now a Ninty platform looks very different from what Sony/MS are doing, for better or worse...
But hey, I'll support em as long as there's something I want to buy on it...
faceless007
Member
Er, anyone saying the Wii was more luck than anything else is doing exactly that.
Well, no one said they did, since no company does. So is that luck any more significant than the luck every company in the world has to contend with?
You're coming at me as if I made the statement that the Wii was "all luck." I never did. All I said was that the Wii had a little bit of luck with being in the right place at the right time.
So you are saying that Wii didn't have any quality games? If you are frustrated, don't limit yourself to just one console. I would rather not have had 3 similar boxes last gen, all with similar looking and playing games. Wii and PS3 were a nice complimentary devices to my PC because they all offered different experiences.
Also please refrain from using ad hominem, just makes you look bad.
Newton Crosby
Banned
Nice generalization.
i miss old tech nintendo. I grew up on Nintendo and there will always be a Nintendo system hooked up to the t.v. Nintendo games used to set the standard.Ocarina of Time, Perfect Dark, Final Fantasy 3,(i know not Nintendo but awesome on SNES) Yoshi's Island, Star Fox, F-Zero, Mario Kart, did a good job of showing what a syatem can do. You have to turn on a 3ds to play a game like that. Nintendo always have something they could do with a game on their system whether it was the scaling and rotation of the first F-Zero, the waves of Waveraxe 64, etc.Now they are just a company of gimmicks.
Nintendo games also added new elements to show off the abilities. Starr Foz 64 couldnt be done on any other system during the Saturn, psx, and n64 days.
The problem is that Nintendo makes systems based around their games. Or at least they used to. They now make games based off their controllers. You think they woulf have learned their lesson with the rumble packs, robs, power pads, memory units, etc
Nintendo problem 563 Nintendo is too arrogant. They never took and competing system as competition. This has killed their innovation and left Nintendo playing catch up for the last four generations. Arrogance is why the catridge was used as i remember Nintendo saying in EGM that cd's held them back and that the cd wasnt ready to take off and that catridges were better. Had the Nintendo 64 had a Cd drive it would have faired better Square Enix would have given u that generation.
Arrogance is why Nintendo characters dont talk. Arrogance is why the gamecube looked like a little girls toy purse. Arrogance is why the Wii is pretty much a Gamecube. Arrogance is why all this money was put into a tablet that will be irrelevant because johnnyks Ipad or Surface will be able to do more on Durango and Orbis rendering your tablet irrelevant in a sales race. Arrogance is why your games are not evolving. Where did Activision learn the Call of Duty Formula? Look at Nintendo games.
Go back to your roots Nintendo and start looking at what the next guy is doing. Everyone one copies everyonewhen it comes to what features your console has. You designed the Wii-U with Nintendo in mind and nobody else.Microsoft and Sony make a system with developers in mind which adds up to automatic third party support. You speak of Third Party support before the launch of every system. You have become politicians above game makers. You are motha-fuckin' Nintendo! The greatest game maker on the planet! You dont need gimmicks! The Nintendo I loved took risks but risks when it came to games. You dont half ass your games so why do you half ass your systems? You half ass even the standard features! Who is calling the shots at Nintendo? Its really easy for you to get back on track and this gen you have an advantage that you have failed to capitize on. Marketing the Wii-u should be easy
There was a time you could look at any type of game and Nintendo had the best in its respective genre across the board.
Games are about fun and new and Nintendo hasnt evolved.
C'mon Nintendo Star Fox with tablet controls and u still have a chance. Will take more than that but Nintendo needs ideas like that. Or can just sit out this gen while u plan the next system pissing off investors bringing bad publicity to your system and deminishing your reserves
Nintendo games also added new elements to show off the abilities. Starr Foz 64 couldnt be done on any other system during the Saturn, psx, and n64 days.
The problem is that Nintendo makes systems based around their games. Or at least they used to. They now make games based off their controllers. You think they woulf have learned their lesson with the rumble packs, robs, power pads, memory units, etc
Nintendo problem 563 Nintendo is too arrogant. They never took and competing system as competition. This has killed their innovation and left Nintendo playing catch up for the last four generations. Arrogance is why the catridge was used as i remember Nintendo saying in EGM that cd's held them back and that the cd wasnt ready to take off and that catridges were better. Had the Nintendo 64 had a Cd drive it would have faired better Square Enix would have given u that generation.
Arrogance is why Nintendo characters dont talk. Arrogance is why the gamecube looked like a little girls toy purse. Arrogance is why the Wii is pretty much a Gamecube. Arrogance is why all this money was put into a tablet that will be irrelevant because johnnyks Ipad or Surface will be able to do more on Durango and Orbis rendering your tablet irrelevant in a sales race. Arrogance is why your games are not evolving. Where did Activision learn the Call of Duty Formula? Look at Nintendo games.
Go back to your roots Nintendo and start looking at what the next guy is doing. Everyone one copies everyonewhen it comes to what features your console has. You designed the Wii-U with Nintendo in mind and nobody else.Microsoft and Sony make a system with developers in mind which adds up to automatic third party support. You speak of Third Party support before the launch of every system. You have become politicians above game makers. You are motha-fuckin' Nintendo! The greatest game maker on the planet! You dont need gimmicks! The Nintendo I loved took risks but risks when it came to games. You dont half ass your games so why do you half ass your systems? You half ass even the standard features! Who is calling the shots at Nintendo? Its really easy for you to get back on track and this gen you have an advantage that you have failed to capitize on. Marketing the Wii-u should be easy
There was a time you could look at any type of game and Nintendo had the best in its respective genre across the board.
Games are about fun and new and Nintendo hasnt evolved.
C'mon Nintendo Star Fox with tablet controls and u still have a chance. Will take more than that but Nintendo needs ideas like that. Or can just sit out this gen while u plan the next system pissing off investors bringing bad publicity to your system and deminishing your reserves
Chie Satonaka
Member
I'm having a really hard time believing that this is a serious post.
Nintendo characters don't talk because Nintendo is arrogant. What the fuck am I reading? It's like I'm on GameFAQs.
Nintendo is so arrogant that they believe that voices don't matter in games. They don't feel that their characters need to evolve. Its been the same old characters different settings.you can tell a story better with voices and brings you closer to the character. It also can bring the world to life. Even Sonic talks now! If nintendo added voices that would open up their characters to new audiences. I don't hate Nintendo just their decisions. They are too arrogant and old fashioned. Arrogance makes u ignore the competition wonder off on your own sinking ship.
Because blue oceans are hard as hell to create. It's not something you can do again and again and again. Why? Because theoretically, blue oceans shouldn't exist. From a business strategy standpoint, companies should attempt to diversify themselves enough to fill in gaps or openings within the market. Sometimes, however, this doesn't happen. Gaps go unfilled or even widened, due to narrow-minded red ocean (ie. homogenized) competition. Red ocean competition is something that business has perfected over the last several decades - fighting with cost advantages, greater sophistication along very specific lines and standards. If you have enough money, or have greater technology with which to reduce costs, you have an innate advantage within this form of competition. This is very accounting, finance, and operations / logistics oriented.
Marketing tends to take a backseat in this form of competition. This homogenization leads to the gaps I mentioned before - and these gaps are colloquially referred to as 'blue oceans,' when really they're just market inefficiencies.
When Nintendo came up with the Wii, there was a huge gap in the market. However, following the Wii, this gap has closed up as competitors - both new and old - have shifted into the space. Microsoft with Kinect, Apple, etc.
Blue ocean isn't something you can easily create unless the market is tremendously homogenized and inefficient. You don't do it out of thin air, nor can you dictate that you'll always find a gap within which a blue ocean can be created.
Saying, "Well, why didn't Nintendo just do it again if it wasn't luck?" is a clear sign that the person speaking doesn't really understand what blue oceans are or how they're taken advantage of. Nintendo would love to have another blue ocean. The problem is, they can't find one. Who knows: The next blue ocean may fall into MS's lap, or Sony may be especially suited for it. Just have to wait and see.
Silent_Ocarina
Member
I think it's unbelievable that people actually believe that voices are necessary for good characterization. I also have no idea how you've related voice acting to arrogance.
Newton Crosby
Banned
DISCLAIMER: just tray's post does not represent the views of most Nintendo fans, we're not insane.
StreetsAhead
Member
*Metroid: Other M
*Super Mario Sunshine
*Fire Emblem Awakening
*Animal Crossing (sort of)
*Kid Icarus Uprising
*Xenoblade
*Nintendo Land
It's not like they're totally against voice acting in every game.
Chie Satonaka
Member
For the past week I've been reading so much dreck from "professional" outlets in regards to Nintendo's standing, that post seriously just took the cake for me. It's not even... There's just so much that's fundementally wrong--- My head hurts.
By the way, I don't think there's any place for VA in Mario or Zelda titles... I guess I'm arrogant now, too. :3
Outtrigger888
Member
There's no arrogance in staying true to your art.
If anything, you're arrogant in how you judge their art.
I think what's special about link never talking is you feel more like the character. If link started talking you'd feel more seperated from the character. With link not speaking, its an open canvas for the gamer to paint their own image. So they're more attached to the character as actually being link. Instead of feeling like you're playing a movie.
You're making the assumption that he's actually a Nintendo fan. That does not bode well.
I was back in the day.Nintendo doesn't keep me entertained as much these days. I outgrew Pokemon and I am burnt out on Mario. I like Nintendo but think their approach is all wrong. The Wii-U isn't going to be another gamecube though I can say that. It will sell next to the nextbox and PSd. It won't do Wii numbers.
I will say this lowkey the Wii-U had a better than normal launch lineup. Better than the Wii probably one of the best ever if you just look at what was on the Wii-U.
and what's wrong with voices in Nintendo games?Nintendo is too old fashioned. I'm not saying all games. Voices when done right are an important aspect of a game next to the graphics and adds to the gameplay.
I don't hate Nintendo I just know they are capable of doing better and catch up quicker with technology.Every generation after the Super Nintendo has seen Nintendo cripple themselves because of poor design choices.
In America we have these things called opinions and everyone is entitled to one. Don't like it don't read its that simple. Insulting someone for an opinion just goes to show how some people are I guess. Not a knock on my character at all. Some of you act as if you have one unfavorable opinion then that person must be from gamefaqs, not be as passionate about games or whatever when this this whole thread as most threads are, are based on opinion. A mature and professional response doesn't resort to belittling. I will say what I want about any company that I please. But I won't use the same tone when talking to a person. Its called respect.
StreetsAhead
Member
This is a discussion forum. If you don't like that some people discuss your opinion, then you are free not to post it. Sometimes, people will not discuss it in a way you like or is not very mature or well reasoned. That is a part of life.
Now, apart from displaying numerous games where voice acting has been used to lesser or greater extent in Nintendo's games, what makes you think it's arrogant to not include it? They tried it with 3D Mario and it didn't work. The haven't really tried in Zelda, but I have a feeling they may try with the next one.
To me, voice is fine, but when you have someone like Miyamoto, who is prone to change, add, or chop sections of a game at the last minute, voice acting could and would become a money sink. It's the same reason many of their games don't include pre-rendered cut-scenes.
Dreams-Visions
Member
When I was growing up, Nintendo had the best graphics on the block.
I'm not a fan of this Nintendo, no.
I'm not a fan of this Nintendo, no.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
I find the tethered tablet route frustratingly stupid. Low tech, on the other hand, is all about the profit margins. Can't shit on a solid business choice.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I used GameFAQs as a reference because that rant was a GameFAQs style post. You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but the idea that Nintendo not using voices because they're "arrogant" is a really weird position to take.
As far as Nintendo's tech stance goes, why is it so important to have a machine that's "capable" of "the best" graphics? It's amazing to me that people give the system maker so much flak for not having the most power or whatever, but devs aren't taken to task for doing everything they can to maximize a system's resources to make the best looking games they can. Mario Galaxy was visually beautiful. I loved looking at it. I can't think of any (off the top of my head at 12:30 AM) other games that were made by a third party studio that came close to that level of visuals on the Wii. I'm not a graphics whore by any means, and I'll say that the majority of third party stuff on that system looked like hot garbage. Considering that the Wii WAS a more powerful gamecube, and games on that system looked pretty stellar for the time, we should have seen better looking games for it's successor, right?
Freezie KO
Banned
The only thing that bothers me about the low tech route is that I'd like to play the latest first person shooters with Wiimote controls. Since Nintendo themselves do not make FPS games, I am reliant upon third-parties, who don't like to support Nintendo's consoles, especially with a power disparity.
Call of Duty works amazingly well, but when the new MS and Sony boxes come, the choice will be between having the fully featured games on those consoles or the better pointer aiming on the Wii U. I'd like both. Also, it would be nice to get a few more multiplats from studios I like.
Other than that, I'm fine with whatever they want to do.
Call of Duty works amazingly well, but when the new MS and Sony boxes come, the choice will be between having the fully featured games on those consoles or the better pointer aiming on the Wii U. I'd like both. Also, it would be nice to get a few more multiplats from studios I like.
Other than that, I'm fine with whatever they want to do.
That is absolutely the DUMBEST SHIT I have read. Nintendo is arrogant because their characters don't talk? (You know, like Mario, Samus, Peach, Pit...no talking whatsoever there)
Terrible....terrible post.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Luck? If virtual boy took off would it have been luck? Lol..
I'm at odds with how I feel about Nintendo's low tech strat.
On one hand they make brilliant games. So I have to question how important hardware specs are.
On the other hand I can't help but wonder how certain games could benefit from more powerful hardware. Zelda in particular is a series I believe could benefit greatly from more powerful hardware. The series is all about immersion, exploration, and an epic adventure. High tech really lends itself to allowing Nintendo to expand on these features in a Zelda title.
My pressing issue with Nintendo isn't really about the technical power. Its about their inability to evolve with the modern games industry and consumer expectations. Its one thing to have a console less powerful then the competition, but its another to have next to no online services and facilities for your customer. The Wii U is only now just starting to address these issues, mean while Microsoft have had a decade of Xbox live.
On one hand they make brilliant games. So I have to question how important hardware specs are.
On the other hand I can't help but wonder how certain games could benefit from more powerful hardware. Zelda in particular is a series I believe could benefit greatly from more powerful hardware. The series is all about immersion, exploration, and an epic adventure. High tech really lends itself to allowing Nintendo to expand on these features in a Zelda title.
My pressing issue with Nintendo isn't really about the technical power. Its about their inability to evolve with the modern games industry and consumer expectations. Its one thing to have a console less powerful then the competition, but its another to have next to no online services and facilities for your customer. The Wii U is only now just starting to address these issues, mean while Microsoft have had a decade of Xbox live.
the industry is so large that there is room for people to take both directions - the film and the book approach. i'm personally a big fan of the way Zelda is done right now - in a sort of middle territory.
Nintendo goes low tech for their devices ' costs but for game development costs too...
I guess the cost of 'HD' games has lowered since 2005(or has it?), but what will be the cost of the PS4 and X720 games, where people expect a big jump? Will PS4/Xbox720 owners buy games that only look marginally better than the previous gen? How many developpers will go under again this gen because of rising costs?
I guess the cost of 'HD' games has lowered since 2005(or has it?), but what will be the cost of the PS4 and X720 games, where people expect a big jump? Will PS4/Xbox720 owners buy games that only look marginally better than the previous gen? How many developpers will go under again this gen because of rising costs?
Nope. As long as the games are great, I don't care about what the tech behind them is. It's much more satisfying to enjoy games for what they are rather than moan about what they are not. Because yeah, maybe Zelda could be a bit more immersive with more powerful hardware, but if you had that, all you'd be doing is wondering how it would be with even more powerful hardware. I don't see how you can enjoy anything that way.
Yeah, people talking about strokes of luck being a primary reason for Wii's success and Nintendo's arrogance halting voice acting in their games?
But yeah, apparently Nintendo fans are "the worst", "unhinged", "lunatic" gamers on the internet, according to GAF. So these folks must not have gotten the memo.
m.i.s.
Banned
He said nothing about Nintendo fans. He just pointed out the absurdity of one post.
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Incidentally, isn't Nintendo's Q3 financial results due soon?
StreetsAhead
Member
Thursday, iirc.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
People acting like great graphics is mutually exclusive to "fun" are silly.
However, it is also important to be said that people who attack that kind of principle above also often act as if great graphics are prerequisite of "fun", which is just equally silly if not even more so.
However, it is also important to be said that people who attack that kind of principle above also often act as if great graphics are prerequisite of "fun", which is just equally silly if not even more so.
I hate it mostly because:
A) It supposedly gets compensated by interesting tech and for the Wii U, it just isn't interesting enough to make up.
B) It gets in the way of game availability i.e. Devs who don't want to port because of weaker hardware (or in relation to A, the control scheme).
Well maybe this is mostly the Wii U. I'm perfectly satisfied with the 3DS but that may just be the nature of that part of the industry (where the 3DS is getting most of the games and it at least does things the PSP could never do despite being extremely weaker than the Vita).
A) It supposedly gets compensated by interesting tech and for the Wii U, it just isn't interesting enough to make up.
B) It gets in the way of game availability i.e. Devs who don't want to port because of weaker hardware (or in relation to A, the control scheme).
Well maybe this is mostly the Wii U. I'm perfectly satisfied with the 3DS but that may just be the nature of that part of the industry (where the 3DS is getting most of the games and it at least does things the PSP could never do despite being extremely weaker than the Vita).
Okay I am nintendo fun and not care about graphics but believe me when i saw Zelda Wii U i were shocked .
Graphics + Fun= perfect game..Fun -Graphics= Good game not perfect.
I wish we get Pikmin 3 with Graphics like Disney UP.
Still didn't see Ps4 & 720 Graphics to know the result with Wii U.
m.i.s.
Banned
I don't think it was as straightforward as you're suggesting here. Miyamoto postulated that a game such as Super Mario 64 just wouldn't have been possible on CD-ROM (both Saturn and Playstation used 2x speed drives to give just 300k/second). Miyamoto mentioned that the open world nature of his groundbreaking 3D game just wouldn't have been possible on the CD-ROM format as it then existed. There are also other examples but Yamuachi did take he advice of co-workers when he came to his eventual decision of retaining ROM cartridges, which, as you say, was to the detriment of third party support.
Furthermore, Yamauchi initially wanted to launch the N64 in Dec '95 but delayed the launch on instruction of Miyamoto who wanted more time to polish the game. Yamauchi certainly has many detractors but I personally find his videogame business instincts to be some of the best I've ever seen in the industry despite his mistakes and arrogance. As I've mentioned before, both motion control and touch screen were concepts that he gave the green light to.
Bear in mind that this policy should be looked at the prism of the videogame crash of '83 -- popularly thought of as caused by the high number of badly produced titles -- which the Nintendo licensing scheme aimed to rectify.
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