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Techpowerup themselves say the 9070xt is high end.

What you are talking about is enthusiast tier.
Techpowerup is smoking crack

9070xt is a good card. So is the 5070ti. But they are not high end. .
5080 is the start of high end cards

4090 5090 are high end cards.
 
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You do you. If that's what you like, then more power to you, bud. I look for high-end cards, and AMD left that market. They only focus on mid-range products. That alone, to me, is garbage and not worth looking at anything AMD does in terms of GPUs. I promise you not even the new AMD GPU will be as powerful as the 5090, and that next-gen card isn't coming till late 2027.

To me, AMD has been nothing but problems for years. Let's not even go all the way back. Let's just compare AMD's 6000 series to NVIDIA's 3000 series from six years ago until today.

AMD has almost always been behind when it comes to performance. They make questionable decisions, especially with memory. NVIDIA has consistently offered higher memory bandwidth in comparable cards, while AMD's choices have often left their GPUs choking at 4K because they simply don't have enough bandwidth.

They're still using GDDR6 ( Not even 6x that was on some on some nvidia cards from the year 2020 !!!!! ) their 9000 series because it's cheaper than GDDR7. It's just one bad decision after another.

Driver support has also been slower. To this day, your NVIDIA card will usually get a Game Ready driver on release day—or even a few days before a game's launch. With AMD, you're often waiting a week or two at least, unless it's an AMD-sponsored title.

Their drivers were buggy for years. It wasn't really until 2025 that they finally started getting their act together, and FSR was absolute shit compared to DLSS 2, 3, and 4. Only with the 9000 series and FSR 4 did they finally become competitive. Even now, we still don't have Multi Frame Generation, and NVIDIA has had it for well over a year. DLSS 5 will probably launch this fall, and AMD hasn't even hinted at a response.

They announced the FSR diamond. They already hinted that it's not coming to the 9000 series, while Nvidia is still supporting their cards from the 2000 series with the newest DLSS, giving the user the option to use it and lose a few more frames or stick to whatever DLSS they want within the Nvidia app itself. AMD? like a fart in the wind.

You might hate DLSS 5. Hell, I might hate it too. Who knows? But that's not the point. The point is that AMD is always behind. Always.

Not to mention the recent FSR 4 drama. The RX 6000 and 7000 series were clearly capable of running FSR 4, but AMD chose to screw over those customers by keeping it locked to the 9000 series. Then the DLL leaked—because of their own mistake—and people proved it worked. AMD got called out for it.

After that, they stayed completely silent on the issue for more than a year after the 9000 series launched. Why? Because they knew people who bought a 7900 XTX wouldn't have much reason to upgrade to a 9070 XT if FSR 4 officially worked on their existing card.

And then there's this...

How the fuck does your newest card end up not only being weaker, but also having less VRAM than the card it replaces? What kind of backwards company makes decisions like that?

All this so they can say, "Hey, look! Our card is $600 instead of NVIDIA's $750." Who gives a flying fuck?

These mother fuckers cant even get their drivers to work best on release day. The 9070XT was losing to the 5070 Ti until recently, with more driver updates over the year till it became the same performance. Some morons like to call it AMD fine wine, I call it engineering retardness. I am buying an AMD card with drivers that don't utilize the card to its potential, and I have to wait months or years to get that extra performance. GTFO with that garbage.

I'm not saying NVIDIA is perfect. Far from it. But AMD somehow finds a way to drop the ball every single generation in the dumbest ways possible.

Why would I buy their product when the competing product is simply better?

The PC gaming market has room for everything. Budgets range from $600 all the way to $6,000. Give me the option to buy a true high-end AMD GPU. Give me something exclusive that actually benefits gamers instead of constantly playing catch-up with NVIDIA.

Hell, even Intel's XeSS was better than FSR 1 through 3.5, and that came from a company that had barely entered the discrete GPU market before scaling it back.

The word pathetic doesn't even come close to describing AMD.

The fact that you are saying they make questionable decisions, especially when it comes to memory is hilarious. Yea, AMD, the one that typically always offers more vram and no GTX970 3.5gb nonsense is the one selling questionable memory setups? Also, you mocked GDDR6 but that isn't making the RTX5070 using GDDR7 faster than a RX9070 when reality is that the 5070 is slower so why does that matter? Also drivers only getting resolved in 2025? The AMD driver nonsense is beyond out of touch at this point, that hasn't been a valid talking point in forever.

And since when was the 6000 series not competitive? Unless we are in a warped reality the 6800XT 16gb competed just fine with the 3080 10gb (you were mocking AMD's vram choices again why?) same with the 6900XT / 3090. The 3090 is no where near worth $500 over a 6900XT.

AMD is selling to the widest market they can and the smartest one to sell to in their position. Sure, I'd love to buy another R290X or 7970 equivalent from them but the 9070 / 9070XT are more than competitive at their price point. You do realize people do base purchases off price/performance right? A 5080, let alone 5090 is no where fast enough to justify the cost jump for most people, and I can buy either right now if I wanted to. 16gb on the 5080 at $1k+ completely invalidates it as well.

Techpowerup is smoking crack

9070xt is a good card. So is the 5070ti. But they are not high end. .
5080 is the start of high end cards

4090 5090 are high end cards.

Oh no, 85fps vs 84fps the 9070XT just can't keep up enough to make it high end (yes I know this an outlier, but just saying it's not easy to just slap a card to a category like that).

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People posting their reported temps but the article says that a modded service software is needed to access the sensor's temperature.

I thought the point was that Nvidia wasn't reporting that temperature. Am I missing something?
 
The fact that you are saying they make questionable decisions, especially when it comes to memory is hilarious. Yea, AMD, the one that typically always offers more vram and no GTX970 3.5gb nonsense is the one selling questionable memory setups? Also, you mocked GDDR6 but that isn't making the RTX5070 using GDDR7 faster than a RX9070 when reality is that the 5070 is slower so why does that matter? Also drivers only getting resolved in 2025? The AMD driver nonsense is beyond out of touch at this point, that hasn't been a valid talking point in forever.

And since when was the 6000 series not competitive? Unless we are in a warped reality the 6800XT 16gb competed just fine with the 3080 10gb (you were mocking AMD's vram choices again why?) same with the 6900XT / 3090. The 3090 is no where near worth $500 over a 6900XT.

AMD is selling to the widest market they can and the smartest one to sell to in their position. Sure, I'd love to buy another R290X or 7970 equivalent from them but the 9070 / 9070XT are more than competitive at their price point. You do realize people do base purchases off price/performance right? A 5080, let alone 5090 is no where fast enough to justify the cost jump for most people, and I can buy either right now if I wanted to. 16gb on the 5080 at $1k+ completely invalidates it as well.



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1 - lol at bringing charts of full HD . Because that's what high end gaming is about. Full HD .. I should have just ignored your post from that alone, but whatever lol. Full HD ? You must be either dense, or you are purposely trolling with a FULL HD, knowing full well 5080 isnt full HD card and it actually has overhead on such low resolution. just like 4090 and 5090. Which one of the two are you?

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that 5 frames difference is about 13%.. in an AMD sponsored title... lol. ( oh and they are both are shit in this game simply because the devs are shit. but nothing new for ubisoft

2- I am not an Nvidia fanboy. I just stated that any fanboy of a company is a retard.

3- I never said AMD didn't offer more RAM. I said they offered slower VRAM. The difference is when it comes to 4k, all Nvidia cards excel better due to the RAM speed and buffer/bus size. There is a difference.

4- You not justifying the cost of a video card is your issue. Some of us have a limit of 500 max for GPU. Others 5k max. Whatever your financial situation is and whatever you believe, is something related to you only. Don't enforce your logic of saying this is too much for a video card = people should agree with that logic.

I think 3k US to 3.5K Us is my limit ( can I push more ? Maybe if I see it worth it ) . Others are 7k, some don't want to spend more than 500$.

The problem is the options. AMD lacks in the high-end. Their high-end card if 9000, is slower and has less RAM than their 7000 series from 3 years ago. And you want to tell me AMD is not fucked up in the head ? Ok lol.


Oh, and I don't know what you play for you not to have driver issues. Up to the 6900XT, when I had it, I had artificial glitches in some areas in games, even in sponsored titles back then, like black ops cold war where if you look at windows in multiplayer, you see dots on the that window. Which annoyed the fuck out of me.

And no driver issue? Dude to this date, they don't update their drivers to support games that come out the same day. You have to wait a week or so to get a proper driver ( again, unless it's sponsored).

PC is about choices. I know someone who tried to say to fuck Nvidia and AMD and went with Intel ( he came back to Nvidia like a monkey, but at least he tried lol )

So if you have no problem with the way AMD is doing it for you, then great. More power to you. As a matter of fact, I wish there were more people like you, this way Nvidia can be more competitive and give us more competitive cards and prices for someone who has no issues with Nvidia.

I am not against AMD. just like If i want to build a steam OS system, I will without thinking much about it, buy an AMD card because Nvidia is shit on Linux.

But in terms of cards / power / features? Nvidia smokes AMD and stomps on them.
 
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1 - lol at bringing charts of full HD . Because that's what high end gaming is about. Full HD .. I should have just ignored your post from that alone but whatever lol.

2- I am not an Nvidia fanboy. I just stated that any fanboy of a company is a retard.

3- I never said AMD didn't offer more ram. I said they offered slower VRAM. The difference is when it comes to 4k, all Nvidia cards excel better due to the ram speed and buffer / bus size. There is a difference.

4- you not justifying cost of a video card is your issue. Some of us have a limit of 500 max for GPU. Others 5k max. Whatever your financial situation is and whatever you believe is something related to you only. Don't enforce your logic of saying this is too much for a video card = people should agree with that logic.

I think 3k US to 3.5K Us is my limit ( can I push more ? Maybe if I see it worth it ) . Others are 7k, some don't want to spend more than 500$.

Yea you are right, 43fps vs 38fps at 4k with RT (Nvidia's bread and butter after all) my bad, that clearly makes the 5080 worth at least $1260 (current cheapest one) compared to the $690 9070XT. I don't care if your budget is a million dollar, it still makes the card a bad price point for what it offers.

And again, if the GDDR7 mattered, why is the 5070 still slower than a 9070 at 4k? This isn't a one off thing either, the 9070 typically pulls further away the higher in res you go. You said all Nvidia cards excel better due to it but that's a flat lie and you know it. I'm not new to this game man so don't spread nonsense. Obviously given identical specs otherwise the card GDDR7 is faster than GDDR6 but as you likely know these cards not share the same specs.

So you had some weird texture glitch and now AMD driver are still bad? I mean if you'd like to ignore all the recent Nvidia driver issues that's on you but both companies at this point have their good and bad ones. This isn't the early 2010's anymore.
 
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Yea you are right, 43fps vs 38fps at 4k with RT (Nvidia's bread and butter after all) my bad, that clearly makes the 5080 worth at least $1260 (current cheapest one) compared to the $690 9070XT. I don't care if your budget is a million dollar, it still makes the card a bad price point for what it offers.

And again, if the GDDR7 mattered, why is the 5070 still slower than a 9070 at 4k? This isn't a one off thing either, the 9070 typically pulls further away the higher in res you go. You said all Nvidia cards excel better due to it but that's a flat lie and you know it. I'm not new to this game man so don't spread nonsense.

So you had some weird texture glitch and now AMD driver are still bad? I mean if you'd like to ignore all the recent Nvidia driver issues that's on you but both companies at this point have their good and bad ones. This isn't the early 2010's anymore.
Again. Why are you bringing money and value into this? Some people bought the RTX 6000 Pro or whatever it's called for 12k to play games. whatever you/me / anyone considers a good value or not is something personal and subjective. This is not the core of this argument/talk

We were talking about what the alternative is for someone who wants a high-end card ? AMD is not it. Intel is not it. What is the alternative? Not buy a 5090 for us who can buy it and stick with a 9070 XT because you said so or because you see more value there?

There is a reason why AMD prices are so low compared to Nvidia for the same performance cards, give or take ( between the 9070 xt and 5070 ti, even ). and its not just Nvidia tax, its just a better card, a potential buyer will know it will support the latest DLSS 5, it has multi-frame gen that is working perfectly fine for some time now, it has good resale value if they wanna sell it in the future. and so on of the list.

And why is the 5070 slower than 9070? Because the 5070 isnt a 4k card? its right at the edge of being a 2k card IMO. Buying a 5070 for 4k is a stupid purchase. has nothing to do with VRAM type when the chip it self is weaker. however if you had a 9070 cards with one being GDDR7 and the other is 6. which is one is gonna be faster?

Anyway, just to point something for you. I personally think the 5080 is a shit card. its weaker than the 4090 where usually the 80 series new gen is on par or better than 90 of the gen before. it has less vram than a 4090. and I think its a bad product. I would rather buy a 5070ti ( if i am going to be comparing price to performance ratio ) like you do. I will still not touch the 9070xt, would rather buy a 5070 ti for the reasons i mentioned above. But that's my personal take. And I own both 5090 and 5070.
 
Again. Why are you bringing money and value into this? Some people bought the RTX 6000 Pro or whatever it's called for 12k to play games. whatever you/me / anyone considers a good value or not is something personal and subjective. This is not the core of this argument/talk

We were talking about what the alternative is for someone who wants a high-end card ? AMD is not it. Intel is not it. What is the alternative? Not buy a 5090 for us who can buy it and stick with a 9070 XT because you said so or because you see more value there?

There is a reason why AMD prices are so low compared to Nvidia for the same performance cards, give or take ( between the 9070 xt and 5070 ti, even ). and its not just Nvidia tax, its just a better card, a potential buyer will know it will support the latest DLSS 5, it has multi-frame gen that is working perfectly fine for some time now, it has good resale value if they wanna sell it in the future. and so on of the list.

And why is the 5070 slower than 9070? Because the 5070 isnt a 4k card? its right at the edge of being a 2k card IMO. Buying a 5070 for 4k is a stupid purchase. has nothing to do with VRAM type when the chip it self is weaker. however if you had a 9070 cards with one being GDDR7 and the other is 6. which is one is gonna be faster?

Anyway, just to point something for you. I personally think the 5080 is a shit card. its weaker than the 4090 where usually the 80 series new gen is on par or better than 90 of the gen before. it has less vram than a 4090. and I think its a bad product. I would rather buy a 5070ti ( if i am going to be comparing price to performance ratio ) like you do. I will still not touch the 9070xt, would rather buy a 5070 ti for the reasons i mentioned above. But that's my personal take. And I own both 5090 and 5070.

Money and value are in this because that is the most important factor when making any purchase no matter the industry? Otherwise just buy the best on the shelf, no thoughts about it?

Of course a GDDR7 card with equivalent specs otherwise to a GDDR6 version will be faster (I noted this as well but the quote you grabbed was prior to it). Even at 2k the 5070 is typically slower, in those same charts with RT it's 10fps slower than a 9070 at 1080 & 1440p.

While we do agree the 5080 is a crap card for what it is the problem is the 5070ti is basically non existent and the ones for sale are so close in price to a 5080 it doesn't make sense to bother.

Regardless, looking at the OP we are both wildly off topic here.
 
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Money and value are in this because that is the most important factor when making any purchase no matter the industry? Otherwise just buy the best on the shelf, no thoughts about it?

Of course a GDDR7 card with equivalent specs otherwise to a GDDR6 version will be faster (I noted this as well but the quote you grabbed was prior to it). Even at 2k the 5070 is typically slower, in those same charts with RT it's 10fps slower than a 9070 at 1080 & 1440p.

While we do agree the 5080 is a crap card for what it is the problem is the 5070ti is basically non existent and the ones for sale are so close in price to a 5080 it doesn't make sense to bother.

Regardless, looking at the OP we are both wildly off topic here.
If that's how people think, we would all be driving a Yaris by now. No need for more expensive, faster cars that will still get you from point A to B anyway. In reality its what you personally think is ok or not is always based on how much money you have and willing to spend ( assuming you are not a cheap person). If you or I have millions in the bank and we live comfortably and not month to month paycheck. Will you care if a card costs 10k when you have 10 million doing nothing in the bank for example?

Not saying I have that much or you don't have that much. It's just like everything in life: what you consider valuable or not is really based on how much you really can afford/have.

No one who bought a 5090 was like ( oh the value of this is shit, I better buy a good value-to-money card ). They just want the best. they can afford it. done. Nvidia is giving these people this option. AMD isn't. which goes back to my first original post. What is the alternative to Nvidia in the high-end space / super high-end space, whatever you wanna call it? nothing. They are lacking.

Anyways, as you said, there is nothing to add here. So agree to disagree, I guess.
 
If that's how people think, we would all be driving a Yaris by now. No need for more expensive, faster cars that will still get you from point A to B anyway. In reality its what you personally think is ok or not is always based on how much money you have and willing to spend ( assuming you are not a cheap person). If you or I have millions in the bank and we live comfortably and not month to month paycheck. Will you care if a card costs 10k when you have 10 million doing nothing in the bank for example?

Not saying I have that much or you don't have that much. It's just like everything in life: what you consider valuable or not is really based on how much you really can afford/have.

No one who bought a 5090 was like ( oh the value of this is shit, I better buy a good value-to-money card ). They just want the best. they can afford it. done. Nvidia is giving these people this option. AMD isn't. which goes back to my first original post. What is the alternative to Nvidia in the high-end space / super high-end space, whatever you wanna call it? nothing. They are lacking.

Anyways, as you said, there is nothing to add here. So agree to disagree, I guess.

In that all, I can agree. AMD offers no option to compete with the 4090, let alone 5090 and they probably won't compete with the 6090. My point is, that in their position the wider audience they are selling to makes more sense for them, thus the 9070XT which has definitely made more money for them then the prior 7900XTX. If you want the best of the best you are going to pay the price and that goes for any hobby but that is typically a small percentage of buyers. Unfortunately for us all Nvidia owns the market and they know it.
 
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I tried it on my own Asus Prime 5070 Ti and after an hour of 100% GPU utilization, temps maxed out at 84C average and 96C hotspot - which is well within the expected delta for hotspot temp and the thermal limit for these cards.

I get that it's problematic for Nvidia to hide the sensor data, but I also find it problematic for tech dorks to create alarmist articles like this based on the results of one card. Very few people seem to be able to replicate their results, and it a) makes it sound like some sort of design issue with the card, and b) sort of gives justification to why Nvidia hid that data to begin with.
 
I tried it on my own Asus Prime 5070 Ti and after an hour of 100% GPU utilization, temps maxed out at 84C average and 96C hotspot - which is well within the expected delta for hotspot temp and the thermal limit for these cards.

I get that it's problematic for Nvidia to hide the sensor data, but I also find it problematic for tech dorks to create alarmist articles like this based on the results of one card. Very few people seem to be able to replicate their results, and it a) makes it sound like some sort of design issue with the card, and b) sort of gives justification to why Nvidia hid that data to begin with.

You can easily jump from your 96 C° to a 105 C° with a different model and small form case.
 
People posting their reported temps but the article says that a modded service software is needed to access the sensor's temperature.

I thought the point was that Nvidia wasn't reporting that temperature. Am I missing something?
Yeah people are posting their temps from the sensors that nVidia gives software access to, but that isn't the point, the point is they blocked access to a different sensor that is showing why clock speeds are being lowered.

So you aren't missing anything here.
 
Did you even see the test he did?
He basically showed how what software to use, said what to expect in temperature differences between hotspot and the average temp. Then showed his 5090 was normal.
It was just pure information. Nothing more.

The flames on the thumbnail was for?

Nobody knows, because the wonderful scientists behind this story didn't even bother to measure the physical temperature - Or even test more than the one card.

But I'm supposedly a "Nvidia defender", so what the hell do I know 🤷‍♂️

Just download the tool and read the hotspot. Just pure information, nothing more.

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Why are you questioning things.

Meanwhile, HWiNFO, arguably way more robust throughout the years than HWmonitor who is known to frequently misread sensors, got updated today and..

Reports way lower deltas for hotspot. HWmonitor results being in talk with Mumak and Igor

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I examined HWMonitor 1.65.0., a tool that was released only yesterday. The result is interesting: the NVIDIA "Hot Spot" shown in this version is not a pure estimate from TGPU, power, or fan speed. HWMonitor contains a kernel driver and reads certain NVIDIA registers directly via MMIO. However, there is also a catch here, but more on that in a moment. The private interface 0x65FE3AAD is actually resolved via nvapi_QueryInterface. So it is not merely present as an unused string in the file. For a NVIDIA generation identified internally as 0x010Dxxxx, HWMonitor contains a fixed mapping, but the particularly important point is this: the visible GUI entry Hot Spot requests sensor ID 2. In the Blackwell MMIO path, this is mapped directly to BAR0 + 0xAD0A90. The path from the GUI entry to the MMIO register is therefore statically traceable. What is problematic from my point of view, however, is something else: HWMonitor apparently does not represent the hotspot as the maximum of the six known BJT sensors:

In addition, the HWMonitor function found obviously does not check valid bit 30. It merely discards values whose integer temperature component is 0 or 255. That could also explain the sporadic jumps. HWMonitor does not estimate the Blackwell hotspot via the fan curve, as I do, but the program does have genuine kernel/MMIO access, which is good at first. However, the hotspot shown in the GUI is obviously derived for Blackwell only from BAR0 + 0xAD0A90. It has not yet been proven that this single value is ultimately identical to GPU_OFFSET_MAX from MODS, because the results do differ somewhat. HWMonitor, at least according to my current understanding, uses neither the recognizable maximum formation across six sensors in the found path nor the division by 256 that I validated. Therefore, HWMonitor can display a real hardware value, but may interpret it differently or not select the actual maximum value. I have now compared the values with mine, and there are still open questions. For example, if you stop the fan, the temperatures drop, just as with mine. It is unclear why. I would assume that this tool also still needs some fine-tuning. HWInfo64 will probably also go online soon (Martin is currently on vacation, but he has the laptop with him), however with the complete sensor set, which leads me to suspect that these results will then be much more similar to mine and, above all, will avoid unexplained temperature drops of sometimes more than 5 °C, as I had in HWMonitor.

And today Igor posted this

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Not saying HWiNFO is a done deal, the dude programmed that on his laptop during vacation, but either case, there's a lot of validation left to do. You're 100% right nemiroff nemiroff

But it's not as fun as putting flames on a youtube thumbnail and making a shocked face
 
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Did you have another brain freeze? You know hotspot.... flames.....
As if a play on words was to invalidate a very good video explaining all of this.

I think you have a brain freeze or don't want to admit it

Clickbait

Daniel is clickbaiting 🤷‍♂️

A little fire as if there's a real issue, "this is what nvidia was hiding" with a retarded shock face. Pure 100% clickbait.
 
I think you have a brain freeze or don't want to admit it

Clickbait

Daniel is clickbaiting 🤷‍♂️

A little fire as if there's a real issue, "this is what nvidia was hiding" with a retarded shock face. Pure 100% clickbait.

Clickbait. Welcome to modern youtube.
And his video showed that there is no problem.
In fact, he explain how to check if there is a problem and how to solve it.
 
Not good, but also not dangerous. This was after roughly an hour of Inzoi. 5070ti Asus Prime.

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Don't even bother with HWmonitor, it's roughly +5°C off and as Igor pointed out, they somehow managed to not even pick maximum of the six known BJT sensors and their conversion factors is off from the MODS finding


Peoples have already implemented the right script for msi afterburner and HWiNFO already seems more robust and in-line with Igor's findings.
 
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