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[Sohurmk833]

Unions in general are worthless. Mostly corrupt, self serving weasels and more often that not rotten to the core with a leftist agenda.

 

[Chakan]

They will be shut down in 5 years.

Dude, id Software has already been shut down. More than 70% of the staff was laid off. Now, they're simply a support studio.

 

[LordOcidax]

Go Wok… I mean Go Unionized Go Broke…

 

[Spukc]

Fuck you shit bag. id Software were the pioneers of the industry. Why dance on the grave of a game developer that built damn near everything we know today?

The unionized because they knew this day would come and they thought it would protect them to some degree.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Asha has filed for 5k H1B visas. Which is disturbing. Get rid of your expensive labor pool and bring in a much cheaper labor pool.

Cunt.

 

[spookyfish]

Asha has filed for 5k H1B visas. Which is disturbing. Get rid of your expensive labor pool and bring in a much cheaper labor pool.

If true, there are law firms all ready to file over this. One on the tweeter has already reached out, asking any Microsoft folks dismissed to reach out to them. We'll see.

 

[YCoCg]

don't care, fire them all, I wouldn't care
let those lazy bums get a new jobs

Bait? id have been very consistent in putting out games, expansion dlcs and even doing their own engine.

 

[INNocence]

Bait? id have been very consistent in putting out games, expansion dlcs and even doing their own engine.

no bait! Their engine is great (well at least the result looks good, I don't what is like to work with it )! Their last game is shit, nobody bought it. Expansion dlcs to the shit game... nobody bought it. Put the engine for sail. Throu out that shit makers on the street.

 

[LordOcidax]

Fuck you shit bag. id Software were the pioneers of the industry. Why dance on the grave of a game developer that built damn near everything we know today?

The unionized because they knew this day would come and they thought it would protect them to some degree.

Unions= Cancer for companies, especially in US.

 

[YCoCg]

no bait! Their engine is great (well at least the result looks good, I don't what is like to work with it )! Their last game is shit, nobody bought it. Expansion dlcs to the shit game... nobody bought it. Put the engine for sail. Throu out that shit makers on the street.

Their last game wasn't as good as the previous ones but you're still looking at a studio that has put out three games, multiple expansion packs and has one of the best engines around that's kept up with Ray Tracing features whilst maintaining performative over the past 10 years.

Call them a lot of things but lazy isn't one of them, show me other studios who have managed to do that.

 

[Madserb2023]

Unions are either worthless and self serving or willing to let people die especially if it's in the medical profession. Long gone have the days when the union boss was someone who started off in the industry. They are usually millionaires now. The definition of champagne socialists.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Unions= Cancer for companies, especially in US.

I agree with you don't get me wrong. But unions are typically formed when people don't want to be abused by their employer in the case of Microsoft buying the company. These people work for why wouldn't you set up a union look at what's happening a little foresight went a long way and they probably got great benefits while getting laid off.

 

[calico]

You probably need meaningful leverage for a union to be effective. They had none.

Europe may make it harder to get rid of people, but it also makes companies more reluctant to hire in the first place. I'm not convinced it's a benefit overall for workers.

Having a woman of colour carry out this surgery was genius by Microsoft. The religious beliefs of the people being removed and of the media make it impossible for them to be too critical of her or to offer any meaningful resistance. A man of white doing this would need a presidential level of personal security.

 

[LordOcidax]

I agree with you don't get me wrong. But unions are typically formed when people don't want to be abused by their employer in the case of Microsoft buying the company. These people work for why wouldn't you set up a union look at what's happening a little foresight went a long way and they probably got great benefits while getting laid off.

That's the issue that video games companies are having in US, No crunch, working the small amount of hours possible in a day, more employees to do one job is what makes gaming development so expensive there due a long period of time, + the DEI (Hiring a lot of people because colors without any talent) involved with UNIONS is the recipe for destruction.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So... Unions work after all?

 

[LordOcidax]

So... Unions work after all?

They achieved being fired…. The same thing as always with the lefties.

 

[yogaflame]

Another socialist and communist group in a making?

 

[LordOcidax]

Another socialist and communist group in a making?

They are fired already…

 

[wipeout364]

Shame. Unions should be illegal. It's like communism for employees that people willingly pay dues for.

I disagree unions are important in many areas, capitalism is good but it's blindspot is in treatment of people who are thrown away to earn more returns.

My big problem with this , and I said the same in the Double Fine thread. Unions are for jobs where everyone is essentially doing similar work. I don't understand the structure of these unions where everyone is doing different jobs.

Essentially unions allow people who have been with the company for a long time to have some protection to avoid being fired because the company does not want them to get a raise or they are planning layoffs so they layoff the most senior people to save the most money. This implies a newer employee can do as good a job. This holds true in factories, nursing, teaching, essentially you can plug and play new people in with minimal effect.

I can't reconcile how this works in a development studio where you have writers, artists, programmers, game designers, these groups should all be unionized separately in my understanding. They can't be moved around with a little training, it is essentially impossible for the artist to do the programmers job and vice versa.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Dat unionisation surely does wonders

You know it my piece of shit friend you surely do!

 

[Ironman_Bad]

Microsoft will systemically dismantle and dissolve this studio over this.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

A union in theory is to protect the worker from both a competent and incompetent employer.



Goes to show how much GAF hates your everyday worker. A bunch of dudes seem to hate themselves, so they take that pain out on others that are simply looking for respect.



Your mindset is a terrible thing you boot-licking corporatist.

If you're a skilled white collar worker, your protection is that you're not easily replaceable, + the fact that your skills are in demand and other employers would love to poach you away from your current employer.

 

[yogaflame]

They are fired already…

Good, anyway union this days are just being use for leftist or communist and socialist agendas. There are already allot of labor laws and labor code that protects worker rights, so for me union is not needed.

 

[mckmas8808]

Its extremly competetive industry, ofc every1 are on the chopping block, especially when under big pub/platform holder.
Just saying studio unionising is first and certain sign its gonna get either major layoffs or total clousure, coz ppl working there unionise coz they know layoffs are coming.
Working in AAA gamedev isnt supposed to be that cushy 0 stress job, its high salary high status job, which comes with its own risk- if u/ur team/whole studio underperforms consequences will happen, its not babysitter or kindergarten teacher job where no matter if u working at 100% of ur limits or only at 70% its "good enough", in AAA gamedev 70% of work capacity doesnt cut it, hell often even 90% doesnt...

Yeah, the bolded is how I've been understanding it too. So, of course that's why saying they got laid off due to unionizing is incorrect.

 

[mckmas8808]

Asha has filed for 5k H1B visas. Which is disturbing. Get rid of your expensive labor pool and bring in a much cheaper labor pool.

PLEASE tell me you're joking! You know what.......what's your source for this, because this would be a legit serious problem.

If you're a skilled white collar worker, your protection is that you're not easily replaceable, + the fact that your skills are in demand and other employers would love to poach you away from your current employer.

This isn't true at all. Like literally, not true lol.

 

[LectureMaster]

Asha has filed for 5k H1B visas. Which is disturbing. Get rid of your expensive labor pool and bring in a much cheaper labor pool.

It's misleading saying relacing with Indians is for cheaper labor, very wrong, those H1B software engineers get no less pay at all. It's simply replacement, it's not about saving cost.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

This isn't true at all. Like literally, not true lol.

It sure as hell is true in my profession (software engineer). I get a flexible schedule, WFH 3 days a week, lots of time off, and a great annual bonus based on company performance. Over the last 6 years they gave me 2 promotions and a couple off-cycle raises, unprompted, just to make sure I was getting paid comparably to the job market. And even then, we had some people leave (and we recruited others) during the pandemic boom when companies were hiring every damn software engineer they could find just to keep the competition from getting them first.

Nobody here has ever talked about unionizing. And if they asked me, it would be a "Hell no". My individual worth + bargaining power are way more valuable than whatever a union could get me.

 

[MagusMajul]

At their core they can be a good way of protecting yourself against a shitty employer and their practices, but the original idea has been abused by many employees. In some countries and areas of industry being a part of union can mean you're untouchable and can strongarm your employer to improve your working conditions even if that means that the whole company will end up in deep financial trouble.

Big corpos dismantling whole studios because they wanted or managed to unionize is nothing more than sending a message to be a good hard-working bee or you're out. In cases like this I will always take the side of the employees.

it ruined the automotive industry in the usa i wont ever by a vehicle made in America

 

[Thebonehead]

America doesn't seem to like Unions

 

[r4vio981]

You dont get extra rights in a union. They just take money from you.

 

[Lord Panda]

A union with 165 members is tiny compared with a parent company that employs hundreds of thousands of people, especially one whose executives barely blink while laying off thousands at a time.

Unions would only have real leverage if there were far broader uptake, not just across that company, but across the gaming and tech industries as a whole. And realistically, that isn't going to happen. Unionising in this environment will only put a target on your back.

 

[PeteBull]

Yeah, the bolded is how I've been understanding it too. So, of course that's why saying they got laid off due to unionizing is incorrect.

They got laid off coz made games that didnt sell well enough(vs their budgets), do i think those were solid if not even great games, yes, id software to me is on a lvl of bluepoint so sad af that they got crippled, in the end tho didnt buy eternal nor dark ages so there it is...

 

[mckmas8808]

It sure as hell is true in my profession (software engineer). I get a flexible schedule, WFH 3 days a week, lots of time off, and a great annual bonus based on company performance. Over the last 6 years they gave me 2 promotions and a couple off-cycle raises, unprompted, just to make sure I was getting paid comparably to the job market. And even then, we had some people leave (and we recruited others) during the pandemic boom when companies were hiring every damn software engineer they could find just to keep the competition from getting them first.

Nobody here has ever talked about unionizing. And if they asked me, it would be a "Hell no". My individual worth + bargaining power are way more valuable than whatever a union could get me.

That's great for you, but that doesn't apply to everybody else. In some businesses and certain companies, things aren't so smooth.

 

[Zacfoldor]

I agree with you don't get me wrong. But unions are typically formed when people don't want to be abused by their employer in the case of Microsoft buying the company. These people work for why wouldn't you set up a union look at what's happening a little foresight went a long way and they probably got great benefits while getting laid off.

It's probably illegal in the US, but being in a union can be a bad thing for an employee in a company when the company is doing very poorly.

Unions and contracts are setup usually during flush times but rarely plan around downturns.

So basically Unions are like a futures market for employers. If they hire union workers they are prepaying for labor in a sense. They are setting a price they will pay for a future market.

Futures markets are inherently risky, so all things being equal a non-union employee is a less risky hire. When nut-cutting time arrives some CEOs may choose to hire cheaper less risky labor and fight about it in court rather than proceed with labor costs that are disqualifying in the current market. In the EU I'm sure regulation prevents such things but in the US we are the wild west of employment guarantees.

 

[mckmas8808]

They got laid off coz made games that didnt sell well enough(vs their budgets), do i think those were solid if not even great games, yes, id software to me is on a lvl of bluepoint so sad af that they got crippled, in the end tho didnt buy eternal nor dark ages so there it is...

I thought DOOM Eternal sold pretty well though, right? Wasn't it only Dark Ages that sold poorly? And isn't it messed up that, it was on GamePass also?

America doesn't seem to like Unions

But Americans LOVE the benefits that Unions have bargined for throughout time funny enough. A bunch of hypocrites!

 

[Haint]

What do these unions even propose is their purpose in the cushiest white collar work in the world? These guys were probably all making over $200K and working from home 80% of the time. Unionization DRAMATICALLY increases the odds of being fired, so it's certainly not about job security, it's literally anti job security. So what were they even pretending to be rallying against here? Not wanting to work over time for their massive salaries and benefit packages that dwarf what 95% of people earn? Why would anyone support and cheer on such nonsense?

 

[PeteBull]

I thought DOOM Eternal sold pretty well though, right? Wasn't it only Dark Ages that sold poorly? And isn't it messed up that, it was on GamePass also?




But Americans LOVE the benefits that Unions have bargined for throughout time funny enough. A bunch of hypocrites!

Compared to its budget doom 2016 sold gangbusters, eternal sold comparably to doom 2016(dont remember if bit worse or better) but it has much higher budget, dark ages increased budget even more, yet had terrible sales, so flopped hard.
Its simple math- dev studios cant increase their game budgets, then sell fraction of units their previous games sold then expected to keep their jobs, AAA gamedev is super competetive after all, if they fuck up there are 5 other studios who make games cheaper in their place(usually eastern europe/asia).

 

[delirium trigger]

Unions were created to protect workers who had dangerous jobs/bad working conditions.

These people made video games in their pajamas.

 

[mckmas8808]

Compared to its budget doom 2016 sold gangbusters, eternal sold comparably to doom 2016(dont remember if bit worse or better) but it has much higher budget, dark ages increased budget even more, yet had terrible sales, so flopped hard.
Its simple math- dev studios cant increase their game budgets, then sell fraction of units their previous games sold then expected to keep their jobs, AAA gamedev is super competetive after all, if they fuck up there are 5 other studios who make games cheaper in their place(usually eastern europe/asia).

So what about Gamepass? Clearly that impacted The Dark Ages game sells. So, what you doing about that?

 

[PeteBull]

So what about Gamepass? Clearly that impacted The Dark Ages game sells. So, what you doing about that?

I was never gamepass user, all i can do about it, its on asha to end it/refund it to ppl, not me.
And yup, gamepass totally fucked game sales on xbox, awful idea, phil was double agent 4sure.

 

[Gamer79]

Lets get real. Id has not done much the past 5 years. The Dark ages was meh and they have a history of taking an eternity to release a game. Too much bloat.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

This thread has successfully distracted people from how all of this is Microsoft's fault.

 

[Fafalada]

If you're a skilled white collar worker, your protection is that you're not easily replaceable

There's no such thing - everyone is replaceable, especially when the market is already saturated with qualified people.
And it includes all roles - the only difference is long-term implications.
For 99% of employees - there aren't any. For higher / executive roles, there's no short term impact - but there usually is a long term one from having them gone (not necessarily negative either lol).

The protection you speak about is just $ value of replacing someone(there's always a cost - even when you replace someone with a significantly better person). But when you're in a downsizing period, that gets thrown out/ignored almost entirely, so it means precious little.

 

[demigod]

So... Unions work after all?

Yes……for the 3+ trillion dollar company

 

[demigod]

Unions were created to protect workers who had dangerous jobs/bad working conditions.

These people made video games in their pajamas.

Somebody has to protect those weak DEI employees you know.