Balducci30
Member
I was gonna get the steam machine for the form factor to sit next to my consoles near my tv - which apparently is on par with ps5 or less
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
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Balducci30
Member
Speaking of which… I just started playing the ps4 version of rdr2 on my ps5 cus I was tired of waiting for an upgrade to replay it and…When Arthur morgan on 1.8 tflops PS4 has better skin shading than Jason on a 63 tflops 5090. you know the downgrade is real.
More ragebait incoming.
What the fuck. It still looks better than at least 80% of games released today. Perhaps even more. It's not like graphically insane in every way but as a whole it looks straight up better than the vast majority of games on these next gen consoles. Annoying
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I just can't get over the lighting in rdr2. Its way too last gen for me. Feels off compared to modern games. The trees also look very 2d at times.
The game excels in draw distance, art direction and volumetric effects. The fog and the way it's lit is just beautiful especially at night. On PC you can really push the grass and other foliage settings and it looks stunning.
I'm currently playing or at least trying to play gta5 with all ray tracing enhancements and it also looks really good for a ps360 era game. The rt reflections and rtgi make everything look like a ps4.5 game at times. The foliage and level of detail still being ps360 gen holds it back but other than that what a stunning game. If rdr2 had the bounce lighting of gta5s enhanced edition, it just might hold up to avatar and AC shadows.
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Gonzito
Gold Member
The mod for Rebirth is already available, it took me 20 minutes at least to follow the tutorial lol it was a bit difficult to install but worth it. This mod with the 160gb texture mod makes the game look substantially better tbh
Fun fact, I showed the mod to my girlfriend which is a casual viewer and know nothing about games and the first thing she said was, "how is this not in the game by default? seems like something so basic" lol, she just roasted SE
Some screenshots showcasing it
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Fun fact, I showed the mod to my girlfriend which is a casual viewer and know nothing about games and the first thing she said was, "how is this not in the game by default? seems like something so basic" lol, she just roasted SE
Some screenshots showcasing it
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H . R . 2
Member
"that is clearly a different season"The real downgrade in this shot is the grass foliage next to the bike. The rest is mostly time of day changes but the grass doesnt die off at dusk.
but seriously it just might be
still, it won't make a difference in how poorly chosen these shots are
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BlownUpRich
Member
Absolutely hit the nail on the head, articulated everything in my mind, except I was too lazy to type it all down.There is so much INSANE detail in car interiors, leather, weapons, fur and cloth, that I simply can't imagine something as fundamental as skin shaders being downgraded. These are just badly done shots imo, with exaggerated and incorrectly placed DoF + artificial lights blowing out details.
To really get to the truth, we need natural lighting, no make up, preferably open daylight, with exact focus on the face with similar face to frame ratio. Can't be doing 4-6x zoom on one while 1x on the other. All the 3 reference shots thatSlimySnake posted of Aloy, Ellie and Senua are acceptable, but the one that should actually be analyzed (GTA 6) is not. Not blaming him as we can only pick what we get. But I just feel we aren't ready for this comparison yet.
Not saying there is no downgrade either. Just that it's all inconclusive at the moment.
Let's breakdown the OG "downgrade" claim, for example. People were like "where's the AO, where's the RTGI" etc. It's all there. It's just a different time of day, different sky/atmospheric simulation and rain from before.
Draw a line across the support beam under the house (blue line). Most, if not all, of that beam receives no direct light and is completely in the shadow of the house. And yet, notice how the right end is brighter than the left? That's sunlight hitting the ground outside the house's shadow, bouncing in that direction (red arrow)
Or look at the car shadowing itself. First arrow under the car is clearly AO + shadow. Second is shadow + indirect bounce. Third is direct light. You can even see a difference in GI under the front of the car with tires in the way blocking more light versus under the center of the car being slightly brighter as more light can bounce there.
Even the foliage being "downgraded" seems to be from different points in the story. Those aren't flat textures. Seeing actual flattening of grass to the ground. May be they are simulating that too as you walk/drive on it over time. Clearly a lot of time has passed between the house being repaired/restored and the shot we are seeing now. After everything we have seen, we really think they couldn't render basic grass? Just ridiculous.
And water puddles missing? I don't even...
We really are veering on stupidity and manufactured controversy. I'm not saying there is no downgrade. But nothing is screaming out to be a downgrade yet. Just different shots taken in different situations with obviously varying levels of skill.
It's why I am staying silent and away from the "downgrade" discussions even though it pops up in my timeline on Twitter, the material that we have isn't enough evidence to make a convincing conclusion on the matter
Some people are so hyper-sensitive to the point that any visual change is immediately labeled a 'downgrade.' Even if the graphical fidelity & lighting have actually improved, any departure from the original look triggers an instant negative reaction. I think the best that we can say right now is it's very inconclusive, and maybe GTA VI has an inconsistent looking presentation, and rightfully so, due to the highly varied lighting scenarios, day/night cycles & weather/fog effects.
Path Tracing would solve almost all these problems. PC/PS6?
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ThisIsMyDog
Member
its gonna run at 25-30fpsIf ps5 can run gta5 at 60 fps, gta6 is gonna be a joke to run at 60 aswell.
I'd even go as far to say it'll run at 8K 60 since that's what it said on the og PS5 box right?If ps5 can run gta5 at 60 fps, gta6 is gonna be a joke to run at 60 aswell.
H . R . 2
Member
all the nitpicking and pedantic comments of us whores aside, if Rockstar manages to properly demonstrate with the third trailer how dynamic the game's world can be,
I am sure they will make 4 times the budget just through the preorders.
THERE'S SO MUCH POTENTIAL
I am sure they will make 4 times the budget just through the preorders.
- Imagine them showcasing a hurricane level [along with the regular dynamic weather system], where streets are flooded and the trees are fallen and the world map has permanently changed ,
- imagine following someone on social media, stalking them and finding out they are not who they claim to be, get sucked into a local gang den and calling Jasonfor backup,
- imagine having to get new followers to subscribe by doing stunts or posting bodybuilding videos, fishing videos, Tennis coaching.
- what if you are an undercover cop all along and have to plan heists so that you won't blow your cover. having to design new masks because people have seen your mugshot on TV
- imagine fixing up and upgrading the house with Lucia little by little before getting rich until it feels like YOUR home.
THERE'S SO MUCH POTENTIAL
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PeteBull
Member
It can be target 60 when only time u get actual 60 its in a corridor looking at the wall while nothing is happening around u.If ps5 can run gta5 at 60 fps, gta6 is gonna be a joke to run at 60 aswell.
U know crimson desert, even on ps5pr0 dipped below 40fps if under heavy cpu scenario(usually many npcs/enemies chasing u
).Stable 30 is max base ps5 can get imho, and even that likely wont be achieved in "quality mode"
For comparision gta5 perf rt mode, which was 60 target and under light cpu load could hold it for the most part, if pushed to the max like here(online, tank mayhem in the middle of a busy highway with tons of cars and explosions, dropped below 40fps even, timestamped):
GymWolf
Member
The third trailer is still gonna be cinematic, we have to wait for the deep dive to see how alive and reactive the world is.all the nitpicking and pedantic comments of us whores aside, if Rockstar manages to properly demonstrate with the third trailer how dynamic the game's world can be,
I am sure they will make 4 times the budget just through the preorders.
Imagine them showcasing a hurricane level [along with the regular dynamic weather system], where streets are flooded and the trees are fallen and the world map
has permanently changed ,
- imagine following someone on social media, stalking them and finding out they are not who they claim to be, get sucked into a local gang den and calling Jasonfor backup,
- imagine having to get new followers to subscribe by doing stunts or posting bodybuilding videos, fishing videos, Tennis coaching.
- what if you are undercover cop all along and have to plan heists so that you won't blow your cover
- imagine fixing up and upgrading the house with Lucia little by little before getting rich until it feels like YOUR home.
THERE'S SO MUCH POTENTIAL
GymWolf
Member
It can be target 60 when only time u get actual 60 its in a corridor looking at the wall while nothing is happening around u.
U know crimson desert, even on ps5pr0 dipped below 40fps if under heavy cpu scenario(usually many npcs/enemies chasing u
Stable 30 is max base ps5 can get imho, and even that likely wont be achieved in "quality mode"
For comparision gta5 perf rt mode, which was 60 target and under light cpu load could hold it for the most part, if pushed to the max like here(online, tank mayhem in the middle of a busy highway with tons of cars and explosions, dropped below 40fps even, timestamped):
Look 2 post before yours.
BlownUpRich
Member
So much potential. This screenshot in particular is absolutely stunning, jaw-dropping! It perfectly highlights just how alive and grand (no pun intended) the world is. It really feels like they'll throw you into this world to get lost in!all the nitpicking and pedantic comments of us whores aside, if Rockstar manages to properly demonstrate with the third trailer how dynamic the game's world can be,
I am sure they will make 4 times the budget just through the preorders.
- Imagine them showcasing a hurricane level [along with the regular dynamic weather system], where streets are flooded and the trees are fallen and the world map has permanently changed ,
- imagine following someone on social media, stalking them and finding out they are not who they claim to be, get sucked into a local gang den and calling Jasonfor backup,
- imagine having to get new followers to subscribe by doing stunts or posting bodybuilding videos, fishing videos, Tennis coaching.
- what if you are an undercover cop all along and have to plan heists so that you won't blow your cover. having to design new masks because people have seen your mugshot on TV
- imagine fixing up and upgrading the house with Lucia little by little before getting rich until it feels like YOUR home.
THERE'S SO MUCH POTENTIAL
Luipadre
Member
Game will be the most insane open world ever created no doubt about that. I bet the world will feel alive for the first time...for realall the nitpicking and pedantic comments of us whores aside, if Rockstar manages to properly demonstrate with the third trailer how dynamic the game's world can be,
I am sure they will make 4 times the budget just through the preorders.
- Imagine them showcasing a hurricane level [along with the regular dynamic weather system], where streets are flooded and the trees are fallen and the world map has permanently changed ,
- imagine following someone on social media, stalking them and finding out they are not who they claim to be, get sucked into a local gang den and calling Jasonfor backup,
- imagine having to get new followers to subscribe by doing stunts or posting bodybuilding videos, fishing videos, Tennis coaching.
- what if you are an undercover cop all along and have to plan heists so that you won't blow your cover. having to design new masks because people have seen your mugshot on TV
- imagine fixing up and upgrading the house with Lucia little by little before getting rich until it feels like YOUR home.
THERE'S SO MUCH POTENTIAL
H . R . 2
Member
SO MUCH POTENTIAL
that hopefully won't be left untapped
they have managed to tell so many stories just through their screenshots
imagine what can be done with a game that utilises all this potential
H . R . 2
Member
the way they have been building up expectations and talking the game up ["will only come out when it is just perfect"], and the way they are letting our imagination run amok,
the deep dive will either be the most pleasant, most shocking moment of my gaming experience, or it will be the biggest disappointment in the history of the entertainment industry
PS. not because the game is gonna be bad, because the expectations were poorly managed
the deep dive will either be the most pleasant, most shocking moment of my gaming experience, or it will be the biggest disappointment in the history of the entertainment industry
PS. not because the game is gonna be bad, because the expectations were poorly managed
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Maybe different seasons like Forza Horizon? Even that has a big impact on the environment and scenery.
"that is clearly a different season"
but seriously it just might be
still, it won't make a difference in how poorly chosen these shots are
H . R . 2
I see that my gif didn't work properly in my first post, but you can clearly see that seasons make a huge difference. And i agree that those shots are indeed poorly choosen.
H . R . 2
Member
believe it or not, I actually hadn't seen your post when I left my comment , I was reacting to Slimy and thought people would definitely say that
I see that my gif didn't work properly in my first post, but you can clearly see that seasons make a huge difference. And i agree that those shots are indeed poorly choosen.
but I tell you,
I wasn't ready to entertain the idea at first, because Vice City and seasons are not exactly in line with the theme of the game
but then again I thought, GTAV kind of did it as part of the plot and since GTAVI has dynamic weather, it might as well add seasons too
it is not probable but not impossible either
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The mod for Rebirth is already available, it took me 20 minutes at least to follow the tutorial lol it was a bit difficult to install but worth it. This mod with the 160gb texture mod makes the game look substantially better tbh
Fun fact, I showed the mod to my girlfriend which is a casual viewer and know nothing about games and the first thing she said was, "how is this not in the game by default? seems like something so basic" lol, she just roasted SE
Some screenshots showcasing it
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Rebirth's major problem for me is the zero physics of grass, foliage, and trees. Everything looks so dead in the open-world section when none of those are moving or even animated like low-budget games. Those physics exist in the announcement video but are completely absent in the final version.
The FFXV world looks more alive in comparison to Rebirth's hard-rock grass and foliage despite being on PS4/XB1.
And the problem still persist in the next game as well
Gonzito
Gold Member
True. I will always say this
Ff15 looks much better than FF7 Remake and Rebirth, textures, geometry and lighting. Much better
Yep, FFXV all the way
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coachmcguirk91
Member
I think regardless of fidelity, the game will look unbelievable in motion. Plenty of games this generation have surpassed RDR2 in terms of graphics quality, but very few look better when you actually play it. Rockstar's art direction and animation quality will carry GTA 6
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Finally removed the stupid NSFW tag?
T4keD0wN
Member
Yup this one is most definitely it, different reflections, different reflection settings on different materials and ocean is treated differently from a puddle, makes it clear theyre not using pathtracing/non-realtime render and that its likely base console footage disproving DFs claims.Sure, but the new shot has no puddle. You are comparing the puddle of an old shot with… a large water body in the new shot? The water on the side is a boat launch, literally branching in from the ocean behind, hence having whatever reflection tech that is driving the ocean's.
Large water bodies have had atrociously unstable reflections in the trailers already. Remember this?
Does this look like hw lumen with 40+ accumulated samples? It's noisy as hell. Hopefully PSSR fixes it. All we can conclude is that RT reflection resolution and denoising hasn't improved. Also proof that the new shots were likely taken on base console.
The game is treating every type of water surface differently for reflections and not everything is ray traced. Some are SSR and cube maps. Some are ray tracing just to the sky. Some may be SSR + RT etc.
(quality and visibility is so bad in this one shot that i cant tell anything from it, are the skeletal meshes reflected? cannot say) water reflections needs work the most imo, however i personally wouldnt assume consistency between the current batch of footage, let alone between current and old, especially on a game on a custom engine, there will probably be a lot of changes in the upcoming months still.
Disagree, its not apples to apples, but its useful because we can tell differences in reflections quality and methods from it and that they dont use same reflection quality for everything irrespective of materials and roughness, granted this should be a safe assumption for every game in existance, but sure its easily possible to come to the same conclusion from different footage too, but i was comparing just these 2 cuz its easy. I did notice hints of translucency on some of the other screenshots which is always very nice to see and hope that makes it into the final build.
I really dont like how a game can have RT reflections for just something and youll have people saying theyre all rt reflections for everything which is the case for a lot of games as youll have a ton of differences in how each respective reflection is done, how it can be traced and what is traced/hit.
I wasnt claiming these got downgraded, camera is different so its not possible, just that theyre not adequate and same goes kind of for the rest, they need to increase the distances a bit, same was true even for the very first footage theyve shown.
This isnt what i meant, youre absolutely right thats the correct behaviour, but the foliage should be affecting other foliage and itself, i dont see much variance if any on some of the foliage which to me feels as if they arent hit and evaluated (i struggle to see highlights on foliage itself), perhaps i shouldve said it gives off irradiance cache vibes instead.
See the changes when hit
gta grass is worse than either, not affecting itself, possibly an oversight, unflagged placeholder, bug or whatever, its a work in progress so no big deal
Yes, youre right, i was largely joking thats why i said it is there and just gives an illusion of details being destroyed. It is irresponsible comparing different time/lighting conditions, to empathize it further i am complaining about inadequancies rather than the differences and different camera/ToD doesnt play a role for that, shortcomings exist irregardless of that.
I dont want to talk about other shots/trailers since i think there are many photo/editor mode shenanigans, ive seen trailers years ago and didnt pay any attention, nor effort to analyze them, dont have time for that, so i am hung up exclusively on these new shots, well particularly on this specific house one which i think is the best representative of how the game will look normally, in all fairness i find the other quite impressive, but there are clear compromises in this one and i dont like compromises.
Stuff is very hard to guess with these custom engines without knowing how they achieve things since you can get to similar results through slightly different routes and rockstar especially is likely to even use novel solutions, but i dont think this applies to the topics at hand now, were not discussing low-level stuff, but high level. Thats why i try to focus on the end result instead of how it might be achieved for now, guessing is fun and mostly reliable though.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
ILL Dev interview:
Glad to see they aren't backing down, the game is actually real, and not vaporware. Cannot wait for this future masterpiece.
Physics and dismemberment are genuine gameplay features and not just there for show.
They GET IT.
You motherfuckers better all buy this game at LAUNCH.
Hollywood talent >>> Game Dev talent. Its no wonder they're knocking it out of the park like this with their first game. Ember Labs did the same thing with Kena. Bunch of movie guys made a game and crushed it on their first try.
Glad to see they aren't backing down, the game is actually real, and not vaporware. Cannot wait for this future masterpiece.
Physics and dismemberment are genuine gameplay features and not just there for show.
They GET IT.
You motherfuckers better all buy this game at LAUNCH.
Once again...
Hollywood talent >>> Game Dev talent. Its no wonder they're knocking it out of the park like this with their first game. Ember Labs did the same thing with Kena. Bunch of movie guys made a game and crushed it on their first try.
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H . R . 2
Member
agreed
I posted the latter part of this interview a week or two ago, and gave several examples of
how so much more focused, talented and informed Hollywood devs are compared to1st party studios, much to the chagrin of today's Sony and MS's
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GermanZepp
Member
This comparison is peak retardetion.Since Rockstar has hurt my feelings not releasing trailer 3, i am going to be posting twitter ragebait shitting on GTA6 as revenge.
Discuss.
Anything said about this is trolling.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Wishmaster92
Member
Before anyone else says character model/rendering isn't their strong suit
They dedicated a segment talking about character render. Hopefully we get a new trailer soon so we can analyze this better. I'm surprised DF hasn't made a video talking about the new images yet
Jack Howitzer
Member
Well at this point better keep your expectation low for these type of stuff . I mean xX_MASTER TROLLING TRYHARD_Xx ---rockstar themselves won't even tell us where we are heading to other than keep repeating "vice city ,it's cool right?" over and over again and cycling through the usual map area of the 2022 leaks fans been digging up since forever. Yeah you get that right, all because some of the 480p blurry as hell dev footages got leaked in 2022. Even folks on gtaforum mapping threads says it's very funny having so many new screenshots but they didn't show any new place at all. Not to mention the tiresome "gta online promotion ads " style aka too strong exaggerate fake lights and unnecessary dof everywhere bullshots ain't do anything any favor like we've been discussed. Not to say the trailer will certainly go down to this level of unprofessionalism, but they certainly prefer to let internet traffic do the free marketing first whether it's triggering the players type of thing or actual good stuff, as we've been witness now with the no physical copy and "where is trailer 3" type of dramas.
For increasing lod in gta v you can turn up the MaxLodScale value up to 2.5 in document setting file, (I used to stick with 3.0 but there are many random crashes at some spots, dial up to 4.0 or 5.0 game will just refuse to load) better set it to read only mode as well. Due to sloppy engine limitations In some spots game are still looking funny , and some places has streaming issues, resulting in correct lod refuse to load in properly . But overall it's quite a difference, good enough for a ps3 rooted game imo considering many games still have plenty of lod problems till this day. Oh and you can turn down PostFX quality to "High " instead of the highest preset to get rid of that disgusting dof effect at close distance, the only downside is it automatically get rid of cutscene dof as well....
viveks86
Member
I'm sure the next DF direct will cover it. And yeah I agree, their character rendering chops are on a whole new level since RDR 2. They don't have that excuse anymore. If they actually downgraded skin shaders (highly doubt it), it would be massively disappointing.
Balducci30
Member
Idk I wasn't that bothered by the lighting tbh - obviously not as good as some of the best looking games of the gen but it still gave the illusion of being a bit dynamic imo. There are definitely some plants/trees that looked 2d-ish. And obviously the character models are far below something like Horizon (even tho they're clearly stylized)... just as an overall package during gameplay it looks on par or better than a lot of games I've played this generation... some games do certain elements better but as a whole compared to games like: FF7, Spiderman 2, Resident Evil, KCD2, God of War, Marathon, Ghost of Yotei, Starfield, Stalker 2, Halo etc
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Look at what happening to Star Wars Eclipse, its always the good games that have trouble releasing or get cancelled.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I don't know about good. Detroit came out 8 years ago. If they can't make anything in 8 years then it's on them
ThisIsMyDog
Member
Balducci30
Member
This is crazy if it's actually real. Specifically the gore. The blood looks insanely good
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vpance
Gold Member
Are DF still on a blackout for ILL coverage? lol
Gonna get awkward for them while this game is knocking it out of the park with visuals and tech.
Negotiator101
Member
Literally no one has played the game, no media outlet has had access to the game, don't you think that's strange? The developer would be well aware of the faked gameplay claim's but has made no effort to actually show a third party gameplay that can be verified.
Ironman_Bad
Member
BlownUpRich
Member
Why did you turn into a low-res washing machine? No joke but sometimes it fits your behavior & sentiments on this thread, alone & forgotten, frustrated by the industry and whatnot…what am I even saying?
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Ironman_Bad
Member
Wait until you see gta 6 on that ps5
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Maybe they can't because this industry is plagued by greed, layoffs etc...Its not cut and dry like this...
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
that didnt happen to them. netease bought them and invested in them. got them the star wars license. disney invested in them. they wasted that money and made nothing of it. 8 years is a long time. gta6 was made in 8 years.
this is a studio that was exposed for drawing vaginas on whiteboards. not every studio deserves our sympathy.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Still my point stands, the ambitious, next level or games that could push experiences to the next level are somehow cancelled or attacked like TLOU 2 and the Order 1886 and then later praised...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
its kinda like driveclub's rain comparisons. they are still in another league compared to the racing games today. i saw a comparison with forza horizon 6 and its not even close. why? there is a 12 year gap between two games. why cant anyone figure out what evolution studios did with weather?
to me, its easy to push more pixels and more detail as we progress generations. but devs have to do more than just press up on the LOD scale. its obvious that the order, driveclub, and NFS 2015 were doing more than just fancy graphics, they were trying to emulate what hollywood cinematographers and vfx artists are able to do so effortlessly.
the only ones who've come close to matching hollywood quality cinematography is ND with tlou2. I remember jason rubin, the founder of ND doing a talk in 2004 talking about how he had to hire hollywood talent even back then to stand out. its just disappointing that the industry went full open world after Ryse, Order, DC, and NFS. i know the games had issues, but they were doing things we still dont see to this day from most modern games.
fake edit: just remembered, Callisto is the only other game that felt like it was crafted by hollywood. and unlike tlou2, it wasnt just cutscenes either. literally every single hallway felt like it was lit by hollywood artists.
GymWolf
Member
I think it was a fake...Boost sales??!! Hasn't it already sold like 50 million pre-orders lol
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