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AMD Zen 6 AI disaster! NPU replacing iGPU

peish

peish

Member
Wtf insider leaks? Having an integrated GPU is super useful if your main GPU is down! Wtf do we need useless AI slop npu?

 
no dedicated usb4 support integration and no gpu means i am most probably gonna stick with the 9800x3d for a while.

honestly should have stayed with the 7800x3d but whatever. They're all the same at 4k. just waste of money
 
I'd rather have the cheaper option with no integrated GPU or NPU. Using an integrated GPU as a backup is such a narrow use-case, I dunno.

Integrated GPUs are only useful in lightweight desktops you don't get a dedicated GPU for, or laptops where you use integrated to save battery.
 
Durin said:
I'd rather have the cheaper option with no integrated GPU or NPU. Using an integrated GPU as a backup is such a narrow use-case, I dunno.

Integrated GPUs are only useful in lightweight desktops you don't get a dedicated GPU for, or laptops where you use integrated to save battery.
Click to expand...

iGPU in older amd zen takes up very small area, but infinitely useful if your gpu is down or when you in the midst of buying the next 5090 while you sell the older 4090.

The iGPU can even function for 2nd screen output
 
peish said:
iGPU in older amd zen takes up very small area, but infinitely useful if your gpu is down or when you in the midst of buying the next 5090 while you sell the older 4090.

The iGPU can even function for 2nd screen output
Click to expand...

Literally never had to use an igpu in my PC in 20 years. It's a non-issue for the vast majority of people buying these.
 
baphomet said:
Literally never had to use an igpu in my PC in 20 years. It's a non-issue for the vast majority of people buying these.
Click to expand...
My 5800x doesn't have an iGPU, doesn't bother me in the slightest, seems like an NPU at least potentially has better use cases.
The USB4 thing seems like a bigger deal - but is that a CPU thing, figured that depends on the motherboard?
 
poppabk said:
The USB4 thing seems like a bigger deal - but is that a CPU thing, figured that depends on the motherboard?
Click to expand...

AM5 boards already have USB4. It just means the CPU doesn't have a native USB4 controller, so motherboard vendors will have to include an external one (like for example ASM4242) that uses PCIe lanes.
 
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baphomet said:
Literally never had to use an igpu in my PC in 20 years. It's a non-issue for the vast majority of people buying these.
Click to expand...

I argue is the opposite, those who buy separates are those who will appreciate a free built in igpu as insurance

If you are going to waste die space, igpu >>>> npu
 
It's a 2CU iGPU bro. It's useless for gaming or anything useful. So Stop rage baiting.

They are just deciding to disable the iGPU on Destkop unlocked SKUs as a way to charge for them for office machines.

NPU is there to meet CoPilot+ Requirements.
 
Ryzen 3000 and 5000 desktop chips didn't have igpus. I mean it can be useful if something goes wrong but in normal use it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Just keep a crappy old GT710 or something for like $10 incase of emergency.

"Disaster" lmao.
 
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In the last 20 years, I think I might have used the iGPU once. So it's not an essential feature. Not even close.
In fact, it can cause problems with games and apps, because sometimes they choose the iGPU instead of the dedicated GPU and of course performance goes down the drain.
So people have to go into the UEFI and turn it off to avoid problems.
And the idea that we need an iGPU to output to more monitors is idiotic. Modern dedicated GPUs can output to all DP ports at the same time. Want to have 4 monitors at the same time, well you can do it without an iGPU.

Then what is the problem of having the USB4 support on the motherboard instead of the CPU. Are you really that desperate to save a few pico-seconds of latency.
 
Depending on the TOPS I'd rather have the NPU. In fact, regardless of the TOPS, it might still have some use so it's better than something that invariably Goes Permanently Unused.
 
iGPUs on desktops are mostly useless.
But with MS allowing their AI s/w to run on dGPUs soon NPUs on desktops will be even more useless.
So I'm not entirely sure why AMD thought this would be a good idea.
Something something Zen6+RDNA3 dGPU being incapable of running AI at all maybe?
 
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Mini PCs have gained a lot of popularity this year. Just wanted to add that.

What does all this point to? Building PCs is become a niche hobby and seems to be targeted to be phased out by a lot of companies looking for big gains in supplying data centers in the short term.

Basically get rich quick and to hell what happens after.
 
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NPUs have more future potential, but right now they're going mostly unused. iGPU is a nice to have just in case, but in reality it's very unlikely to be needed on a desktop machine. In unified memory systems you could maybe use the NPU for the upscaling/frame gen to leave the GPU to rendering, but for discrete GPU systems it probably doesn't make sense. They'd have to come up with other use cases, but even small local AI requires a lot more oomph than what the current NPUs can do.
 
kikkis said:
I thought igpu was only useful for debugging pc has problems like which part to send for rma
Click to expand...

Yep that's the usefulness of it, and convenience, unless you want to keep a spare gpu around.

An underpowered fat 50tops npus is useful for AI paint eraser if that's your thing?
 
According to claude AI i just ran on my npu, an 50top npu takes up -4x the die size and transistor budget of a 2CU igpu. AI junk junking up our next gen CPU!
 
Loomy said:
Ok, now add a poll to your post. "How many people actually game on iGPU?"
Click to expand...
You don't necessarily game on it.

Its there to hold you with a working computer if you decided to sell your GPU and wait for another one . Or trouble shoot your PC if it's not posting from the video card. Or even Flash the video card bios if it died on you. IGPU are very useful.
 
AMD has never known what they were doing in the laptop market. These are probably fine for business prebuilt desktops.
 
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//DEVIL// said:
no dedicated usb4 support integration and no gpu means i am most probably gonna stick with the 9800x3d for a while.

honestly should have stayed with the 7800x3d but whatever. They're all the same at 4k. just waste of money
Click to expand...

Yeah, I recently moved to a 4K monitor (from 1440) and looking at the benchies, my 5800x3d is still just fine. At this point I'm thinking it won't make sense to upgrade until at least Zen 7.
 
SmokSmog said:
Just buy Nova Lake aka the real next gen CPU.
Click to expand...

Xyphie said:
AM5 boards already have USB4. It just means the CPU doesn't have a native USB4 controller, so motherboard vendors will have to include an external one (like for example ASM4242) that uses PCIe lanes.
Click to expand...

You are damn right! From my on device npu, Intel CPUs with integrated USB4/Thunderbolt do not consume general-purpose PCIe lanes in the same way as add-in controllers.



Instead, they have dedicated I/O resources wired into the CPU package, meaning USB4 bandwidth is handled through its own integrated controller rather than stealing from GPU or M.2 PCIe lanes.

How USB4 Works on Intel CPUs

• Integrated Controller: Starting with Meteor Lake (mobile) and Arrow Lake (desktop, 2024), Intel CPUs include native USB4/Thunderbolt 4 controllers inside the CPU die.
• Exclusive Bandwidth: These controllers use dedicated PHYs and retimers, not the general PCIe lanes meant for GPUs or NVMe. This avoids the PCIe 3.0 bottleneck that older external controllers had. Wikipedia
• Chipset vs CPU Direct:• CPU Direct Lanes: High-bandwidth interfaces (GPU slot, first M.2, USB4/Thunderbolt) are usually wired directly to the CPU.
• Chipset Expansion Lanes: Additional USB ports, SATA, and PCIe slots come from the chipset via DMI. These share bandwidth.
Click to expand...
 
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None of that is relevant to me. I want raw performance gains. I'm on an x670e board. Not sure how much I should be upset.

Very interested in Zen 6 and 7.
 
rm082e said:
Yeah, I recently moved to a 4K monitor (from 1440) and looking at the benchies, my 5800x3d is still just fine. At this point I'm thinking it won't make sense to upgrade until at least Zen 7.
Click to expand...
It's . Because most of the time you are rendering from full HD or 2k using dlss or whatever. So in that case you are not playing native 4k. That's why I don't really regret it. But from 5800x3d ? 100% worth it. I ain't gonna go back to ddr4 either lol
 
peish said:
You are damn right! From my on device npu, Intel CPUs with integrated USB4/Thunderbolt do not consume general-purpose PCIe lanes in the same way as add-in controllers.
Click to expand...

The correct way for them to add USB4 with Zen6 would probably be to make a new chipset with USB4 inside the chipset, and leave USB4 inside the CPU for until they move to AM6. That way they can have it supported on pre-Zen6 CPUs too and you wouldn't have an issue with the motherboard having non-functional USB4 ports (or slow) if you used Zen4/5. Good opportunity for them to add PCIe 5.0 to the chipset PCIe lanes too since their platform is going to fall behind Intel's in terms of connectivity as Nova Lake adds a PCIe 5.0 chipset.
 
//DEVIL// said:
no dedicated usb4 support integration and no gpu means i am most probably gonna stick with the 9800x3d for a while.

honestly should have stayed with the 7800x3d but whatever. They're all the same at 4k. just waste of money
Click to expand...
Problem is if games perform 20% better like it is claimed.
 
//DEVIL// said:
It's . Because most of the time you are rendering from full HD or 2k using dlss or whatever. So in that case you are not playing native 4k. That's why I don't really regret it. But from 5800x3d ? 100% worth it. I ain't gonna go back to ddr4 either lol
Click to expand...
I dragged my feet on the 5800x3d until they went extinct :(
 
So they're replacing a thing that I might need on occasion, and replacing it with something that I'll never want... That shit better slap.
 
peish said:
iGPU in older amd zen takes up very small area, but infinitely useful if your gpu is down or when you in the midst of buying the next 5090 while you sell the older 4090.

The iGPU can even function for 2nd screen output
Click to expand...
It's also very helpful in troubleshooting. It's going to suck if all the decent SKUs lack an iGPU.

I "assume" laptop versions will still have it though.
 
asdasdasdbb said:
The Zen 4 and 5 equivelent product has an IGP included.
Click to expand...
Yup...and my old ev's came with J1772 charging port and now they are all NACIS ports.

Hardware is constantly changing especially in tech. There are other CPU options with IGPU's included if you so desire, but based on this being a gaming forum I cannot image you are gaming on an IGPU, right?
What's in your flow where this is something you need for it to be a viable option? I am just curious as I haven't used an IGPU in years....even for troubleshooting.
 
kikkis said:
I thought igpu was only useful for debugging pc has problems like which part to send for rma
Click to expand...

Not everyone buys a PC for gaming, there are other uses that don't require a GPU.

Sometimes you need a good CPU, but you don't see the need to pay at least another $200 for a GPU that will only provide video.
 
peish said:
Wtf insider leaks? Having an integrated GPU is super useful if your main GPU is down! Wtf do we need useless AI slop npu?

Click to expand...

the fuck? I've built a half dozen desktop PCs over the last 20 years and ZERO of them have had an iGPU

Is it the weekend already?
 
Wolzard said:
Not everyone buys a PC for gaming, there are other uses that don't require a GPU.

Sometimes you need a good CPU, but you don't see the need to pay at least another $200 for a GPU that will only provide video.
Click to expand...

GPQHWCpQR5Dl5GUs.jpg



peish said:
iGPU in older amd zen takes up very small area, but infinitely useful if your gpu is down or when you in the midst of buying the next 5090 while you sell the older 4090.

The iGPU can even function for 2nd screen output
Click to expand...

Ryzen 1000 - no iGPU
Ryzen 2000 - no iGPU
Ryzen 3000 - no iGPU
Ryzen 5000 - no iGPU
Ryzen 7000 - iGPU
Ryzen 9000 - iGPU

Smells to me like actually having an iGPU in the main branch is an outlier sooooooooooo..........

I think AMD has always with their main branch focused on having a really good CPU that they know you are gonna use with a dGPU the 7000 and 9000 series went chiplet which left space for an iGPU in the I/O die.
They must reason an NPU is more valuable to them in future as all this AI PC bullshit takes over so its almost certainly taken the space in I/O die,
I do wonder if they couldnt fit both?







Dont @ me about the G series APUs.
 
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Miyazaki's Slave said:
What's in your flow where this is something you need for it to be a viable option? I am just curious as I haven't used an IGPU in years....even for troubleshooting.
Click to expand...

Could see people wanting the CPU performance but not really caring about gaming.

It also means that the mobile version of this product will be worse or not available at all.
 
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