GymWolf
Member
The difference seems a bit too much but i dont really know.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
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No way. Not a chance. They have that weird uncanny offline look to the rendering that makes it clear its different tech outside of the obvious graphical disparity.
GymWolf
Member
I mean yeah the locust look better, but does it look:T
The artist did a really good job on these considering the hardware but there pretty far away from the locust in texture res alone. We also have to remember we only 2x ram upgrade this time.
ue4 vs ue5
massive open world vs gears sized game, sandboxe at best
hundreds of enemies on screen vs dozens
ps4 vs ps5
BETTER?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
DF starts impressions of Gears E Day saying, "wow. This is absolutely amazing."
Delusional.
Delusional.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Asha's balls in my throat?
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crazyturtle
Member
After seeing resonant, fable, gears, crossfire and blood message, Black Flag is starting to look worse than it's competition. Almost cross gen again when I see its cutscenes. Everything else now showing it's teeth with atleast some resemblance of a cinematic look.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Now this is next gen.
Luipadre
Member
1080p 30 fps youtube video with terrible bitrate. How can someone tell hows a game look based on this
Would help if you posted some comparisons but remember Gears is rendering a fairly open city so the 10x environment detail claim seems exaggerated to say the least.
Cut scene I know but that's pretty much pre-rendered level of detail.
Xbox First Look: Metro 2039 – Everything We Learned Today from This World Premiere Broadcast - XBOX Wire
Here’s everything we just learned about Metro 2039, the fourth entry and darkest chapter yet in 4A Games’ Metro saga.
news.xbox.com
There are some good highres screenshots.
I assume it's using some improved version of the RTXGI from Metro Exodus and raytraced reflections it seems.
Game looks also great in motion if not even better with the atmospheric effects.
kevboard
Member
Now this is next gen.
wobbly camera, almost nothing clearly visible...
next gen is when the camera and the post effects hide the actual graphics lol
We're back at the level of DriveClub at night by rain and motion blur blurring the sidelines all over again
H . R . 2
Member
I don't get the fixation/obsession with clean-looking visuals. some of the best "next-gen" moments I ever got to experience last-gen was when all aspects of the visuals just clicked and worked well as a whole [DriveClub , The Order1886, Arkham Knight]
I personally prefer the devs' visual choices with post-processing effects as long as they serve a purpose and contribute meaningfully to the presentation, and as long as other players are given the choice to turn them off at will
now I am not saying the IQ or resolution should be lowered in favour of post-processing effects but some games emulate a cinematic look and without those effects games end up bland looking and too clean. PC gamers feel cheated out of clean visuals because they pay thousands for their rigs
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ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Have to realize greed and money runs this industry like every other world industry. Real gamers want bleeding edge visuals, innovation, new gameplay, but casual NPC gamers think Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2 and Forza 6 are bleeding edge visually. The elites who run the world have their ideals trickle down into every edge of society. Games have just good enough visuals and the same gameplay loops because they are creating a product that aims to sell and appease the NPC majority people over the smaller amount of enthusiasts / real gamers. Companies have to make a revenue goal and sell enough and what's tried and true is their only care. The devs push back and the suits, others reach an agreement with them. The suits won't invest too much money into something risky or that won't guarantee profits. The business aspect wins until the dev team and consumers / gamers speak and then the business aspect changes just enough to appease. If consumers pivot too much the company closes for good.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Looking forward to this alot.Now this is next gen.
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H . R . 2
Member
I am now even more disappointed in Ubisoft. At this rate, Splinter Cell and PoP are not gonna come out until the next gen, if at all.
they have sold out to SW and Avatar and are probably gonna make more of them while turning FC7 and Ghost Recon into Ai slop
M1987
Member
What game is it? I can't see imgur linagesNow this is next gen.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Crossfire. By ex ND and infinity wars devs.
They were playing around with nanite and realized they can have infinite geometry so they built a new traversal system to be able to traverse any kind of rocky terrain while crouched.
Gif is the shot from 1:30 seconds
viveks86
Member
Another example of using megalights without HW lumen in E-day. There are no contact shadows or PCSS either. You get direct lighting with baked shadow maps, but literally no indirect bounce lighting whatsoever. Everything gets the base lighting (either baked or from other megalights already contributing to it) until it is directly lit by the overhead light. You should be seeing a gradual increase in light coverage with shadows naturally getting softer towards the edges as a result. Not this. See creature below for reference. The light should be bouncing on its body before the final directly lit frame, but we see none of that:
All the lighting is acting in a binary fashion if not directly lit. It's either there or not, which is a sign of no dynamic indirect light contribution.
All the lighting is acting in a binary fashion if not directly lit. It's either there or not, which is a sign of no dynamic indirect light contribution.
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Negotiator101
Member
That doesn't look good, is this something that could be improved before release?Another example of using megalights without HW lumen in E-day. There are no contact shadows or PCSS either. You get direct lighting with baked shadow maps, but literally no indirect bounce lighting whatsoever. Everything gets the base lighting (either baked or from other megalights already contributing to it) until it is directly lit by the overhead light. You should be seeing a gradual increase in light coverage with shadows naturally getting software towards the edges as a result. Not this. See creature below for reference. The light should be bouncing on its body before the final directly lit frame, but we see none of that:
All the lighting is acting in a binary fashion if not directly lit. It's either there or not, which is a sign of no dynamic indirect light contribution.
anyasok
Member
Fable is woke ugly garbage. The west forgot how to make anything look good with the woke virus. Worse than Umbrella.Even that Fable monstrosity looks better
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
How can anyone look at this and say they dont care about resolution/image quality??Man, they couldn't even leave the cutscene shots untouched. Subtle detail added to Marcus's face. His eyes catch more light... Even if you discount the texture improvements as that could be a result of compression, there is noticeable lighting changes to the person behind him, and Dom has been removed from the frame altogether. This is definitely photomode of the cutscene on a higher end PC or... again... AI enhanced. So this proves that literally no shot is "direct feed". Not even cutscenes.
What a difference real Cinematography makes.Now this is next gen.
No surprise. ND and Infinity Ward devs both are A+ in that department.
Fable is gorgeous. Please keep that crap outta this specific thread lmao
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
kevboard
Member
it's not about clean looking visuals, it's the fact that it's very easy to hide visual shortcomings by just shaking the camera a bunch and making everything fuzzy.
the same happend when that one dev uploaded a video of their concept for a shooter where you have the view of a body cam. people literally thought it was fake and not a real game because it looked too good... in reality it had zero special sauce beyond that shaky camera and lens effects hiding all the mediocre visuals it otherwise had.
it didn't even have proper lighting in some places and obvious missing shadows and ambient occlusion on objects.
that kind of visuals is impressive for people who wanna watch movies and don't want to play games I guess.
Batman Arkham Knight doesn't hide anything. the game had insane visuals for its time, especially for a UE3 game. with ridiculously good looking and well authored shaders, especially the water looked amazing.
meanwhile that gif there shows, like... nothing interesting... or especially good looking. just some blurry rocks and a shaky cam.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
There is ZERO chance W4 will look as good as that demo while also being 60 on PS5 imo
Like ive said ive been playing all types of games all gen long as bothbase ps5 and pro and NADA has looked that good with that much complexity in cities/weather/npc etc as that, esp at 60.
Msamy
Member
Here resonance new gameplay preview with bet possible YouTube quality 4k Av1 mp4 20k bitrate
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol it shows plenty. excellent volumetric lighting, great reflections on the puddles, near photorealistic dusk lighting, great scene composition despite being a handheld shot.
the trailer is full of these gorgeous shots.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
anyasok
Member
You keep telling that to yourself. This trailer was catastrophically bad.
Sorry for bursting your bubble
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
looks last gen as fuck. very ugly looking ue3 era brown lighting.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Yeah, I'm not really impressed. Looks worse than Laufey.
Abysse
Member
If there's one game that makes every underwhelming game look miles better, it is FF7.
I don't want to come off as an entitled prick as they're using UE4 and maybe it will look better, but you don't show this screen. It's just ugly as fuck.
That's awful. It looks like a screenshot from a mobile Battle Royale game with low graphics settings.
anyasok
Member
If there's one game that makes every underwhelming game look miles better, it is FF7.
I don't want to come off as an entitled prick as they're using UE4 and maybe it will look better, but you don't show this screen. It's just ugly as fuck.
Still excited for it and their prerendered cutscenes are gorgeous but yeah its last-gen as fuck
Hugare
Member
If there's one game that makes every underwhelming game look miles better, it is FF7.
I don't want to come off as an entitled prick as they're using UE4 and maybe it will look better, but you don't show this screen. It's just ugly as fuck.
This is absolutely disgusting, holy shit
Call me crazy, but FF VII Remake looked much better than Rebirth 'cause baked lighting was top tier. Every scene and location was lit perfectly
Then came the "open world" in the sequel and lighting looked like shit 90% of the time.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Spot on about why nobody in the industry talks about graphics these days. Correction, they'll praise a games graphics but will never put them front and center leading up to launch and journos will praise them no matter what without pointing out the many performance issues.
Sony and MS love the fact that todays casual gamer doesn't care as much about graphics. Less pressure, less cost, less skill required.
Seeing the raw gameplay of Gears is depressing i hope it's compression. Im also so annoyed with MS flip flopping on exclusivity with that game although ill admit it's karma for me being happy about Sony pulling support for PC. Sorry to the PC guys but it really felt like a slap in the face to console players seeing all these games having superior versions on PC.
Not that anyone should trust that Sony and MS wont flip flip on their policies anyway! They have no consistency and ultimately only care about one thing so just because Gears is "console exclusive" now means jack. Same with Sony and PC ports. Next year it could all be different.
It used to seem like at least there was consistency with platform holders back during ps1-ps4, xbox-early Xbox One. That has all changed. Nintendo has been somewhat consistent tho.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol this made me laugh. They complain about budgets ballooning and blame the lack of graphics upgrades on budgets. Well instead of paying this guy a million, pay ten engineers to add rtgi or nanite support.
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I get where you coming from but im not convinced that in a post ps4 world (8gb+ ram) "open world vs sandbox size" means anything anymore. I mean streaming tech still just loads in chunks of zone data. Whether its opem world or sandbox its not like its loading everytging at once. So why is "open world" suppossed to really mean anything anymore? Like its not like alot of open worlds even have any real simulations ala elder scrolls or gta. Most are just "streaming worlds". Efficent streaming tech is old hat at this point. I feel like more amd more its a term used by devs as an diversion or excuse away from what is budget or time compromises.
Who?lol this made me laugh. They complain about budgets ballooning and blame the lack of graphics upgrades on budgets. Well instead of paying this guy a million, pay ten engineers to add rtgi or nanite support.
Thats so weird cause they claimed it used rtgi and yet all of us where like something looks off. Idk whats going on. Is it the same in all areas. Like are they disabling it on the streets and reenabling indoors maybe hmmmm... something fishy is going on at that dev studio.Another example of using megalights without HW lumen in E-day. There are no contact shadows or PCSS either. You get direct lighting with baked shadow maps, but literally no indirect bounce lighting whatsoever. Everything gets the base lighting (either baked or from other megalights already contributing to it) until it is directly lit by the overhead light. You should be seeing a gradual increase in light coverage with shadows naturally getting software towards the edges as a result. Not this. See creature below for reference. The light should be bouncing on its body before the final directly lit frame, but we see none of that:
All the lighting is acting in a binary fashion if not directly lit. It's either there or not, which is a sign of no dynamic indirect light contribution.
I still have hope for Splinter Cell. I need too.
Msamy
Member
For me laufey looks better than most games shown this summer except very few like ill, stellar blade 2 and cross fire
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viveks86
Member
Given the release timeframe, I can't imagine how. Only solution is a realtime indirect GI system (like lumen or something custom of their own), but they can't build something like that this late in the game. Also, these guys are masters of Unreal Engine. Lumen is literally just a check box away. If they could use it, they would have already. Either poor performance or poor IQ/boiling is stopping them from using it. There was a point in the footage where framerate was absolutely chugging already.
They could even bake GI, but given how much procedural destruction and near infinite light sources they can have in a scene, including sink holes that can suck whole cars and buildings, any additional higher quality baking would make it all much worse when things start blowing up, collapsing or vanishing from the level. Without all that being completely scripted, there would be no way to control the expected changes to lighting in a prebaked lightmap. So baking isn't feasible. This is why devs shy away from large scale destruction. Without robust GI, it all starts looking outdated. In this case, they have direct lighting covered by megalights, so at least that part can adapt at a per pixel, per frame level. Night scenes would generally do ok, as any location where indirect lighting doesn't reach, they can easily throw in a light source at no cost. That's the big selling point of megalights. You will see this in their design aesthetic where every night scene is almost excessively lit with lights everywhere. Without it, unlit areas would plunge into complete darkness at night. So they are overcompensating, but the end result looks kinda cool as well with a unique lighting aesthetic not seen in any game so far. But you can't escape the lack of indirect lighting in a dynamic game. It will rear its ugly head often and will be noticeable.
At this point the only solution that can match this lighting setup is full ReSTIR PT + mega geometry, which is a massive endeavor and would be Nvidia exclusive until RDNA 5. Unless they have a major partnership with Nvidia and this is already in the works, there is no way to fix it now. As far as I know, no such announcement has been hinted. They could also do a hybrid megalights+ ReSTIR GI + mega geometry. But that would be an unprecedented new frontier. Literally no one has implemented anything like that. Megalights is already brand new and devs are probably learning the pitfalls as we speak. Combining that with ReSTIR would double the unknowns.
There is also the unlikely possibility that they address whatever performance issue they have with lumen, upgrade to UE 5.8 and turn HW lumen on to play along with megalights. If that happened, we are going to see a sudden MASSIVE bump in graphical quality throughout the game. Not one scene, except maybe be cutscenes, would look like the footage we have seen so far. Even their bullshots seem to miss indirect lighting at the moment, so this could look even better.
But that's a Riftworm sized IF. For now, I'd assume we would be getting exactly what we see
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I really like how you are able to break down individual screenshots and deduce from there. I don't have that Eye let alone the technical know how to be able to describe when something looks off. So it's good to see your post breaking things down.
That said, digital foundry confirmed that they're using hardware lumen and pointed to Marcus self reflecting on a bus window. Richard is also convinced that they're using nanite because he didn't notice any pop in. I am not sure if you can have hardware lumen reflections without enabling hardware RTGI. I think their lighting solution is probably using medium lumen settings but then again, why use hardware lumen instead of just a higher quality software, Lumen Gi.
I just watched some of the clips again and even the the daytime has this greenish hue to it that give it just this muddy and bland look I haven't seen any other ue5 games this generation. I wonder if hardware lumen isn't even turned on in these clips. And they just fucked up while capturing footage.
viveks86
Member
It's noticeably worse indoors in daylight. They said they are using Ray Tracing and another point where they say "fully dynamic realtime ray traced lighting". Not RTGI. From everything I've analyzed, the Ray tracing is used for megalights ie Ray Traced Direct Illumination. Similar tech to what you see in Star Wars Outlaws. Megalights competes with ReSTIR DI enabling near unlimited shadow casting direct lights.
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Msamy
Member
Lighting on this one is good, I think it have some fourm of rtgi and even if not this game have fixed time of day, so even if it have hybrid system it will be enough, also charachter models, animation and hair looks great, that said nanite like tech would have drastically improve this game visuals instead of spend milions making it wokelol this made me laugh. They complain about budgets ballooning and blame the lack of graphics upgrades on budgets. Well instead of paying this guy a million, pay ten engineers to add rtgi or nanite support.
Msamy
Member
Yes that bland look on daytime killed any RTGI or lumen implementation for me, it looks really bad,
viveks86
Member
Your instincts are correct on this one. There is no hardware lumen, be it GI or reflections in any of the footage I've seen. Oliver is wrong and his example isn't conclusive evidence of RT reflections. It's possible that some reflections are software lumen +SSR, but even software lumen reflections requires lumen GI to be enabled right? I see no evidence of that either. But what I'm quite confident to claim is there is no evidence of HW lumen. There is hardware ray tracing with megalights, as it is a prerequisite after 5.5 I believe, but that's not HW lumen.
DF is absolutely clueless at the moment without Alex weighing in. Check my rant on the DF thread and the following debate with
kevboard
. I still owe him a response, but I'll do that tomorrow when I get some time to prove my claim.https://www.neogaf.com/threads/digi...ro-2039-reaction-more.1697790/#post-271652603
I don't think they are using nanite as it is more trouble than worth it for their use case, given the sheer amount of dynamic and procedural destruction they want to support. But for that part, I'm not entirely sure how to judge without extensive, uncut footage in daylight conditions. And I might be wrong about the limitations of nanite on destructibility. TBD as far as I'm concerned. My gut tells me it's not there either.
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Damm. Yah it definitly didnt look to have any noticable realtime GI. I hope we get a PT patch for PC fingers crossed.
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