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The PS5 Pro Is Not Pro Enough
- Thread starter FalconPunch
- Start date
A $500 GPU low end, crazy
winjer
Gold Member
Welcome to 2026
Pasta la Vista
Member
Ok ok im sorry for being a prick, ill try to hold myself back from insults
If it failed ps5 pro wouldn't exist...
dgrdsv
Member
9060 XT is $350+, 16GB version is $450+ at the moment.
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Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
If you have a 9060XT or 5060TI the PS5 Pro is definitely not Pro enough. People with more powerful hardware like a 5070 the PS5 Pro doesn't even register on the map.
FalconPunch
Member
The funny part is both of those are low end cards.
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
9060 is AMDs lowest end card this gen. It competes with the 5060, the XT is a notch up in power. So no not high end. High end would probably be 5070ti, 4080 and higher levels of performance.
People is comparing with PS5 Pro, the 8GB version is not at the same level in many games. So it's obvious I'm talking about 16GB version
Moses85
Member
HRK69
Member
The digital version with DLC was dirt cheap, so I grabbed it on even though I'd already played it on PC.That's the 60fps mode with RT reflections and RT shadows, there's also the 40fps one with RT GI (two features) and RT AO on top.
Fun fact, for both modes the RT features included are the max quality seen on PC, no dowgrades. And RT shadows on Pro have an higher BVH than PC, meaning more items cast shadows on PS5 Pro than PC.
Man... wow. It's been a long time since a game's graphics impressed me this much. It genuinely feels like an entirely different game now.
I was dreading having to play through the intro again, but that feeling disappeared pretty quickly. I'm not even sure screenshots do it justice but I keep stopping every few minutes just to take more
Now I finally understand why people spend so much time in photo mode
Signalis
Member
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Yeah path tracing is pretty much non existent on PlayStation.
Bernardougf
Member
I kind of agree with this ... for new games it should be the same retail price but patching older games should come at a cost if thr devs wanted (and if the patch is well done with remarkable differences) .. expecting free shit well done is mostly delusional thats why we get so many half assed patchs or no patchs at all ...
And I believe with the ps6 launching will be worse .... I think we will end up with mostly only "ps5" versions of games. Hope Im wrong though
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winjer
Gold Member
On my 9070, turning on PT on CP2077, FSR4 Quality, 1440p, frame rate goes down to the 30s.
And this GPU is almost twice as powerful as a 9060XT or Pro.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
But they aren't. The 4060 is a low-end card, not the 5060 Ti.
buenoblue
Member
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
When i saw this topic i just had a feeling it would age terribly.
With hardware prices going up like theya re right now if anything the Pro will age really good for the next few years.
With hardware prices going up like theya re right now if anything the Pro will age really good for the next few years.
PaintTinJr
Member
I think this discussion of high-end PC shows how the term has run away from everyone, and is less about performance and more about high-end cost, much in the same way A, AA, and AAA games are.
For £1500 someone could probably buy (new) a PS5 Pro, PSVR2, steering wheel set and stand, and GT7 and have a gaming experience at the high-end of cost, and because of the bespoke nature of GT7 with that hardware a high-end performance experience too, many times cheaper than an equivalent PC VR experience with using Oculus, steer wheel and a game like Forza or Assetto Corsa running at an unframe-genned native 90-120fps on PC.
Similarly a PC at the price of the Pro, isn't considered high-end cost and won't match it in native frame-rate, needing a PC with a £500-700 16GB GPU, 16GBs of DDR5, a PCIE5 motherboard with a 2TB NVME SSD coming in at +£1,200 if buying as a proper PC that you'd actually buy, and at tha "price point" it is a high-end PC, unless the decades of PC gaming before don't inform us that a +£1,200 PC budget has always been high-end at 500watt power draw.
Just because PC gaming has a lot $10,000 per month burn rate devs logging into steam with their TAX exempt systems with $1,000-2,000 GPUs, doesn't make that the beginning of high-end cost for a PC IMO, and never will.
At the cost of the Pro, it does compete favourably with a £1,200 PC in most situations outside frame-gen, and IMO that is a high cost, high-end PC, and I say that as someone that migrated to a 9800X3D system this year, reusing some parts and still spent most of a £1,000 and still need to add a new £500-600 GPU to it. This system will have more power draw than any high-end PC I ever built in the last 35 years so understandably a 250watt console won't match in hardware, but when you look at how much more important bespoke high production quality software like GT7 and Astro bot or Demon's Souls remake is to the experience. the delta between a Pro running a game like Crimson Dessert and a +£1,500 running it with a few more bells is a much smaller delta IMO.
In this market with most GPUs being power hungry to hide the lack of real performance gain per watt, two or three cards cellotaped together, and the costs of the top two tiers of GPUs being effectively business productivity cards or a 2-3 card SLI cost and power, saying the cards that actually don't do that at £500-£600 are mid -range seems like we've all lost the plot IMO.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
PS4 was 200 euros for black friday 2018 and many promos after that.The Samsung SSD in my PC that was €150 last year has now doubled in price...
We are now paying 300€ for an SSD alone in 2026
RickMasters
Member
I thing is ever enough. PlayStation is not enough… the gaf is not enough… the world is not enough…. Shiiiiiiiit….
You are not enough
You are not enough
The PS4 Pro did let games run at 4K while the original was limited to 1080p and was sold at the same $400 MSRP that the base PS4 originally launched at. And was a drastic improvement for PSVR games.
The PS5 Pro only had more GPU performance as its gimmick. Launched at $200 over the MSRP of the original PS5 and without a disk drive which bumped the cost up to $779. As the time of its release you could have spent ~$925 (so about $150 more) and gotten a PC and beat the PS5 Pro and didn't require a subscription for online multiplayer. Yes VR can be better, but it's much higher price tag for the small increase.
Is it? I guess with current pricing where the PS5 Pro is $900. A year ago a $925 Ryzen 9600X and 5060ti 16GB edged out the Pro. But I wouldn't consider that anywhere near high end. The high end of entry level/beginning of mid tier. High end is 5070ti/5080 which were $1,500+ and those stomp the Pro.
FalconPunch
Member
Let's agree to disagree. The 2060 - 5060 ti are low end cards to me. Mid range starts around the 4070 and up to 5070ti/4080super. High end is just the 5080 and 5090.
PaintTinJr
Member
No it isn't high end is under SLI power needs for the system, like a OEM production workstation with a 450watt PSU.
The power draw on the systems you suggested are SLI system levels - and without 20% consumer sales tax - where PCIe power levels are exceeded by 30x what they started at.
Let's see how in a power matched setup to a RTX 5080/5090 PC where 3 or 4 PS5 Pro's linked in a modern SLI setup of the old GT5 4x PS3 (where it did 4K120 even back then) we see how capable the production level SLI PC does, while still costing far, far more .
I'm guessing you aren't a PC gaming are you? SLI hasn't been a thing for a few generations.
A PS5 Pro has up to 240W power draw.
A 7600X and 5060ti is around 340W for the whole system while gaming.
A high end 9800X3D with 5080 is more like 500W, while a 5090 is 600W.
The 5060ti I was recommending is rated at 180W. PCIe give 75W from the card. and a single 8pin connect is 150W giving you 225W of power between the two. No where near 30x levels you are claiming. The recommended PSU for the entire system is 600-650W.
But most people don't look at power draw to consider how powerful something is. They look processing power. With all tweaks you can undervolt CPUs and GPUs and get 30% less power drawn for 5-8% lower overall performance if you are that concerned.
PaintTinJr
Member
I was talking about power draw of SLI, I wasn't being literal even though they are pulling even more than SLI/cross fire from back in the day,. But clearly the equation of putting 3 or 4 PS5 Pros against a £4,000 RTX 5090 PC made my point by you wanting to argue about how much power draw is involved.
Peak level power draw on PS5 Pro is below 260watts AFAIK based on the UK power lead, and the peak of the 5090 PC is going to be over 800watts going by the 1000watt recommend supply for a RTX 5090, and as shown in those videos where they were showing the additional PCIE power cables melting and catching fire the card alone can pull 600-700watts on the additional cables IIRC.
Power draw is relevant because when Nvidia/Amd were no longer able to use x5 and x10 lithography gains to offer much more at the same power draw below 450-550watt where SLI/cross fire started with 125 watt per card IIRC they then just started ramping up power draw to feed bigger and bigger chips that were only getting a 2x gain, and even less between the 40xx and 50xx series.
So yeah, either the power draw has to be against a high-end PC that isn't semantically an SLI at a high-end price, or you'd have to match power draw with an array of consoles, of which we all know would be no contest if you had even just 3 PS5 Pros using 220watts each.
German Shocks
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
What's the point you are trying to make?
My argument is that a 5060ti isn't a "high end" GPU.
As for power draw. I know people with under volted 4090s. It's ~425W while gaming. So less than 2x a PS5 Pro. But does native 4K with everything maxed out which is far more than the PS5 Pro is outputting.
PaintTinJr
Member
A 4090 by reference design and clocks isn't a regular 450watt PSU supported card and the area of the chip and a corresponding CPU - to not bottleneck it - are far more than 3x the area of a PS5 Pro APU - even without refactoring for the lower lithography of the 4090 GPU and the lower lithography of modern AMD CPU that won't bottleneck it. The comparison is semantically like an SLI by price, chip area and power draw, even ignoring the lithography advantage that is the source of the good power draw when undervolting.
My point is that you are in denial about where high-end PC starts, and it was always a self build PC above £1,000, whether in the PS1. PS2, PS3 or PS4 gen, only now even when adjusting for console inflation is the argument made that somehow a +£1,200 PC isn't high-end because the GPUs in question have xx60 labels, despite performance being x15 - x20 the performance of the last x80 series cards that were top tier in previous gens when the top tier card wasn't just a larger area chip drawing SLI level power.
Killer8
Member
Both Pro upgrades and PS4-> PS5 (and now PS5 -> PS6) upgrades should be free. Publishers should care about this to maximize their sales with the best versions available, but those scumbags only think about quick bucks - pretty much half of PS4 library (or more) should already be ported to PS5.
Meanwhile on PC I can play 2009 build of Mirrors Edge in 4K 120FPS and it looks almost like a current gen title (with next gen physics).
A 'Pro' console implies that the machine is aimed at the hardcore / enthusiast players. People who I would expect would be more comfortable with tinkering with settings in a PC-like way. So for PS6 Pro, I would like to see a system UI toggle that can unlock a full suite of graphics and resolution options within games. Include a warning on it that the player's mileage may vary, and then only when it's enabled the game reveals its hidden options menus. That way consoles can preserve their elegant simplicity while also offering a higher level of control - and future proofing - to their hardcore players.
Bojji
Member
Yes, there should be something like that with a warning screen of whatever.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It implies it's a console aimed at people who want more performance. Nothing about them wanting to tinker.
Just get a PC and keep that shit out of consoles. Thank you.
gundalf
Member
I think a reason why a Series X Pro never came to be, is that Microsoft did the math and concluded that it isn't worth it, Moore's Law is kicking in hard.
Yet I think there are plenty of Sony fans and Gadget lovers who appreciate a more premium SKU, people like to spend money on their hobby, so from Sony's is likely not a fail.
Still, there is some risk the PS6 might not impress people, specially those who own a PS5 Pro.
Yet I think there are plenty of Sony fans and Gadget lovers who appreciate a more premium SKU, people like to spend money on their hobby, so from Sony's is likely not a fail.
Still, there is some risk the PS6 might not impress people, specially those who own a PS5 Pro.
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Killer8
Member
Not like there isn't a precedent for that either:
But I can see the pitchforks are already out for anyone having the audacity to suggest adding these options.
Bojji
Member
Not like there isn't a precedent for that either:
But I can see the pitchforks are already out for anyone having the audacity to suggest adding these options.
Yeah, some console players are allergic to that concept (and then they cry games are 1080p/30fps locked on PS6), on Pro consoles Pro settings for advanced users shouldn't really be shocking. Casuals would have no idea about them anyway.
$1,000 used to be a high end PC, but then the price of everything went up. When consoles cost $300, sure $1,000 for a PC is high end. When a consoles are $650, no a $1,000 isn't some crazy good machine.
The video cards and their price points say what they are targeting.
XX50 - Low Entry level
XX60 - Entry Level
XX60ti - Low Mid Tier
XX70 - Mid Tier
XX70ti - Low High End
XX80 - High End
XX90 - Has money to burn
Before the prices went insane it was $1,500 to be high end, now it's $2,000. The power difference on the top end cards is staggering. When a PS5 Pro struggles at 1440p 40fps that's uprezzed to 4K. You could have 4K 144fps native with much higher graphic settings as consoles are normally often below the lowest PC settings.
Zathalus
Member
If you look at the current offerings from Nvidia the PS5 Pro is equivalent to a entry level GPU, performance is roughly between a 5060 and 5060ti on average, just with a worse feature set.
However if you look at the latest Steam Survey as a whole, only about 21% of PCs have a GPU more powerful than the Pro, which means compared to the average Steam GPU the Pro is decently on the upper range of a mid spec PC.
Power consumption and price to performance both favor the Pro of course, but rather irrelevant when trying to figure out where it lands performance wise.
However if you look at the latest Steam Survey as a whole, only about 21% of PCs have a GPU more powerful than the Pro, which means compared to the average Steam GPU the Pro is decently on the upper range of a mid spec PC.
Power consumption and price to performance both favor the Pro of course, but rather irrelevant when trying to figure out where it lands performance wise.
PaintTinJr
Member
You are still letting the richest company in the world making the product, writing the labels and setting the price tell you want is a high-end "consumer" product while pushing products that are historically inconsistent with using a reasonable chip size, a reasonable amount of power relative to consumer level power use and what is even safe, and inconsistent with what is a consumer priced item suitable for paying sales tax on, rather than bulk bought by commercial companies for productivity that get the cards at a price exempt of the consumer sales tax.
You've just listed gradings of products as effectively told to you by Nvidia, but in terms of gaming, what specific technical aspect makes a xx60 or xx70 series entry or mid in a non-arbitrary way, when both use power typical of high-end of the past, and have chip areas consistent or even still slightly bigger than high end cards of the past, and support all the latest graphics features too?
The difference between a RX 9060XT and RX9070XT is just a small amount of linear performance, and as someone on GAF recently said after owning a RTX 5090 and sold it and replaced it with a RX9070XT, they said the 5090 was nice, but the RX 9070XT was 60% of the performance and a 1/5th of the price to play all the same games with similar visuals. So it doesn't sound like there is anything technically prohibitive for the card using regular chip sizes and power from being high-end too.
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Which is why I put the 5090 in the money to burn tier. The 9070XT is somewhere in the high-mid tier to low-high tier. AMD once again failed to compete with NVIDIA and did release their high end 9090 cards.
The numbers on the product lines have signified their target tier for at least 24 years with the GeForce 4 series. which had 4200, 4400, 4600, and 4800 cards.
Would you not say AMD's X600 six core, X700 eight lower clocked cores, and X800 eight higher clocked cores don't also target an entry, mid, and high end tiering?
If you buy one of the current gen video cards, it will play any game you throw at it. You can be resolution, frame rate, and graphical quality limited based on what you pick. But they are the same games. Much like a beat up Corolla will get you around town. Just like a new super car would. Is it always practical? Nope. Can it be more fun? Definitely.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Very disappointed in Square and FF Rebirth with this latest update we've all been waiting months for.
The lighting improvements supposedly added are unnoticeable and the pop-up in Versatile mode is as bad as its ever been- possibly even worse as now the shadows seem to flicker like crazy. At least that is my experience in the Gonzaga rain forest area.
Also, Fidelity mode now feels way worse than it did. That used to be the mode I'd choose when I wanted to really enjoy the visuals of the game and not have to deal with the awful pop-up. Now, the framerate is worse and it feels really jerky.
Thanks for nothing Square! Seriously, Square absolutely sucks. The lack of an FF16 patch is pure insanity too.
The lighting improvements supposedly added are unnoticeable and the pop-up in Versatile mode is as bad as its ever been- possibly even worse as now the shadows seem to flicker like crazy. At least that is my experience in the Gonzaga rain forest area.
Also, Fidelity mode now feels way worse than it did. That used to be the mode I'd choose when I wanted to really enjoy the visuals of the game and not have to deal with the awful pop-up. Now, the framerate is worse and it feels really jerky.
Thanks for nothing Square! Seriously, Square absolutely sucks. The lack of an FF16 patch is pure insanity too.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Having options to tinker with settings literally doesn't affect the people content to use what the devs decide is the best default option. You never have to see these options as you don't want to look at the settings anyway.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I'd ve happy to pay $10 for a Cyberpunk type update but honestly, we shouldn't have to pay more for this type of shit. Console gamers are treated like shit by these companies. We paid a lot of extra money for the Pro. THAT should've been the price of real upgrades that actually make a difference. 80% of upgrades have been garbage. The only reason I would pay $10 a patch is because we're so used to these pathetic patches.
Is that naieve? Yes, but PC gamers would never be treated this way. They wouldn't tolerate the type of shit Pro owners go out of their way to defend as if they work for these shit hole, lying cunt developers. Look at Dying Light the Beast situation. The games that were listed as Pro Enhanced on the store that mysteriously never got supported while the "Pro Enhanced" tag was quietly pulled (borderlands 4, lego batman and gothic remake come to mind).
A lot of this treatment towards us seems from Sony though. Its their console, their storefront and their customers they allow these publishers to be so two faced towards. They could change the situation if they wanted to have some standards but they prefer to let the publishers jerk us around. The same way they have such shitty return policy. Same way they allow games to get re-released without upgrade paths for existing owners, same way console people have to pay just to play online for games we already paid $70 for. They are anti consumer in ways that Steam isn't and they do it because they know console gamers will take it laying down.
Hypothetically, a publisher could release a $10-$20 upgrade lets say on Sonys store that is a broken piece of shit and we couldn't even get a refund for it if we downloaded that update ...that's the type of racket Sony helps facilitate.
Goalus
Member
This board is full of Playstation shilling.Your Xbox shilling has gotten out of hand.
Not sure how anything could get out of hand on the Xbox side under these circumstances.
PaintTinJr
Member
Actually, until we got down to about 12nm - 8nm the products have been tiered by how performant they were at a reasonable chip size and power limit - where semantic SLI products like we have today weren't depleting wafer areas at the 2x and 3x times the rate - and the tiers were effectively all measured below the peak by reducing power until they reached a entry card that was passively cooled and running just on the 25watts of PCIe slot power.
What is now being wrongly framed as high-end consumer cards has been driven out of the limits of Moore's law being reached impacting the professional workstation line cards, where the wafer use and price is secondary to series on series jumps in performance for productivity at stable power, giving rise to lower quality binned chips for consumer products (xx70/xx80/90) but at professional tier pricing.
The product names mean very little today, and a RX 9060XT & RTX 5060ti with 16GBs of VRAM capable of ML AI upscaling to 4K and can RT/PT are the high-end consumer products, and would be labelled that way if Moore's law wasn't grinding to a halt over the last decade.
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