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[vkbest]

But this comes only from mild leak, I don't think Cerny or Sony ever confirmed it. Official info is "45% more power".

45% is a theoretical number. You can get lower if the game sucks or its a older game previous to PS5 pro release, and you can get more than that theoretical 45% in some procedural task or shaders where they don't stress the bandwidth. That assuming the game is not using RT

 

[Bojji]

You conviently don't agree with it and the 45% is a moddest raster number from Sony that has been already out done in some cases.
Not looking up the examples so don't bother.

Most raster games show ~30% difference, 45% it "up to" number for raster.

45% is a theoretical number. You can get lower if the game sucks or its a older game previous to PS5 pro release, and you can get more than that theoretical 45% in some procedural task or shaders where they don't stress the bandwidth. That assuming the game is not using RT

Theoretical number is 67%, 45% is closer to real life results.

 

[winjer]

The question of PS5 vs Pro ray tracing performance is not just about one metric. A lot of things have improved, some of which were significant bottlenecks for RT in the base PS5. Consider Amdahl's law for this.
The PS5 can do 4 Bounding Box tests, CU, per clock. The Pro can do 8. But the Pro uses the RDNA4, which supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, so supposedly the Pro also has this, which means fewer false positives.
So the real world BVH test performance of the Pro will be significantly higher than what the theoretical numbers suggest.
The PS5 can do only one ray-triangle intersection test, per clock cycle. The Pro can do 2 tests. This means the PS5 can theoretically do 80 billion tests per second. While the Pro can do 280 Billion.
A nice improvement, but then there is the problem with shader occupancy, which craters while doing RT. The PS5 has 128kb of L1 cache. The Pro has 256kb. This means higher L1 cache hit rates, that can allow for switching to other task faster, having fewer stalls in the shader unit.
And then there is the issue with the PS5 having the RT units coupled in the TMUs. Meaning contention between work for textures and work for ray-tracing.
There is also the problem that the PS5 doesn't have dedicated hardware to traverse a BVH tree. So it has to do it in shaders or the CPU. But the Pro has it, so it doesn't have to waste compute power on this.
The Pro doesn't have this issue. So again, it's able to reach closer to it's theoretical limit.
These are just a few examples, of how the PS5 will hit limits much sooner than the Pro.

 

[Bojji]

The question of PS5 vs Pro ray tracing performance is not just about one metric. A lot of things have improved, some of which were significant bottlenecks for RT in the base PS5. Consider Amdahl's law for this.
The PS5 can do 4 Bounding Box tests, CU, per clock. The Pro can do 8. But the Pro uses the RDNA4, which supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, so supposedly the Pro also has this, which means fewer false positives.
So the real world BVH test performance of the Pro will be significantly higher than what the theoretical numbers suggest.
The PS5 can do only one ray-triangle intersection test, per clock cycle. The Pro can do 2 tests. This means the PS5 can theoretically do 80 billion tests per second. While the Pro can do 280 Billion.
A nice improvement, but then there is the problem with shader occupancy, which craters while doing RT. The PS5 has 128kb of L1 cache. The Pro has 256kb. This means higher L1 cache hit rates, that can allow for switching to other task faster, having fewer stalls in the shader unit.
And then there is the issue with the PS5 having the RT units coupled in the TMUs. Meaning contention between work for textures and work for ray-tracing.
There is also the problem that the PS5 doesn't have dedicated hardware to traverse a BVH tree. So it has to do it in shaders or the CPU. But the Pro has it, so it doesn't have to waste compute power on this.
The Pro doesn't have this issue. So again, it's able to reach closer to it's theoretical limit.
These are just a few examples, of how the PS5 will hit limits much sooner than the Pro.

But all this is about RT calculations. With hybrid RT just part of the calculations are RT based, rest is standard raster stuff and Pro has no benefits here over standard PS5 (other than bigger GPU and higher memory BW of course). So even with 3x-4x better RT hardware you will never get 3x-4x better final results, unless your game is done in pure path tracing with no raster.

This is the same kind of nonsense MLID repeats when he talks about PS6 being 10x better in RT than PS5 - he thinks that would mean PS6 games will look/perform 10x better overall.

 

[Vick]

T

Thread 'Valve increases price of Steamdeck - $789 512gb/$949 1tb'

May 27, 2026

Steam Deck™

Steam Deck™ is the most powerful, full-featured gaming handheld in the world.

store.steampowered.com

Steam Machine gonna be expensive.

• Tg89
• Replies: 679
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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[winjer]

But all this is about RT calculations. With hybrid RT just part of the calculations are RT based, rest is standard raster stuff and Pro has no benefits here over standard PS5 (other than bigger GPU and higher memory BW of course). So even with 3x-4x better RT hardware you will never get 3x-4x better final results, unless your game is done in pure path tracing with no raster.

This is the same kind of nonsense MLID repeats when he talks about PS6 being 10x better in RT than PS5 - he thinks that would mean PS6 games will look/perform 10x better overall.

But that is what Cerny said. Up to 4X RT performance increase over the base PS5.

 

[PaintTinJr]

But this comes only from mild leak, I don't think Cerny or Sony ever confirmed it. Official info is "45% more power".

The new BVH structure/extension in the Pro was mentioned by Cerny as one source of the RT improvement on the Pro - because of parallelism IIRC.

 

[winjer]

The new BVH structure/extension in the Pro was mentioned by Cerny as one source of the RT improvement on the Pro - because of parallelism IIRC.

BTW, can you confirm if the Pro supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, just like RDNA4?

 

[Karim]

But that is what Cerny said. Up to 4X RT performance increase over the base PS5.

From what I remembered he said common 2x, 3x/4x somehow in very limited scenario. Anyway he stayed quite vague about what such multiple really mean.

 

[PaintTinJr]

BTW, can you confirm if the Pro supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, just like RDNA4?

This is the technical document for RDNA4 BVH which AI returned as it source for confirming the pro has oriented BB (BVH8, which is what the Pro uses IIRC), so AFAIK it comes with the BVH8 feature.

New AMD Radeon™ Raytracing Analyzer (RRA) v1.8 adds support for AMD Radeon™ RX 9000 Series GPUs and more - AMD GPUOpen

Explore Radeon Raytracing Analyzer v1.8, now supporting Radeon RX 9000 Series GPUs with enhanced BVH formats, including oriented bounding boxes and expanded node capacity.

gpuopen.com

 

[yogaflame]

If you have ps5 pro right now, cherish it because Ps6, Helix, Steam and next gen PC GPU will not be cheap.

 

[evanft]

In general, people that bought consoles and PC parts in 2024/early 2025 are the real winners here.

I paid MSRP for a 4090 in early 2023. I feel like Nostradamus.

But nothing beats the OLED Steam Deck I picked up days before they went OOS earlier this year.

 

[Bojji]

The new BVH structure/extension in the Pro was mentioned by Cerny as one source of the RT improvement on the Pro - because of parallelism IIRC.

BTW, can you confirm if the Pro supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, just like RDNA4?

From what I remembered he said common 2x, 3x/4x somehow in very limited scenario. Anyway he stayed quite vague about what such multiple really mean.

The more RT the game uses the bigger the difference between the Pro and base PS5 will be.

For raster games we see quite typical 30-40% uplift, sometimes some of that can be eaten up by PSSR (if FSR2/3 reconstruction is not present on base console, just some basic upscaling). But when RT is in play, differences can be much bigger like with Cyberpunk and Crimson Desert.

Raster only games (or games using CUs for software RT like UE5 titles) are still a majority of releases but every year there are more games supporting RT.

 

[twilo99]

 

[yogaflame]

Final challenge to Ps5 pro is path tracing. Even just 30 fps and just 1080p upscaled to 4k with PT, will suffice, and thats a big achievement already.

 

[Prodyhig]

I'm really angry with Square Enix because there's a lot of improvement in FF Rebirth, but they haven't improved my Final Fantasy XVI at all, and I'd love to replay that game with better features on PlayStation 5 Pro.

 

[Jam Dingo]

I'm really angry with Square Enix because there's a lot of improvement in FF Rebirth, but they haven't improved my Final Fantasy XVI at all, and I'd love to replay that game with better features on PlayStation 5 Pro.

I know this is borderline heresy but I think a major problem is this expectation that any Pro patch must be free of charge. I don't really get it. These things take work and provide value, so why should they be free? It's not just a normal patch where you're bringing the existing code up to the necessary standard, it's an appreciable improvement on the original scope.

Same thing happened last gen when we ended up with a bunch of earlier releases that just got forgotten about. Like you say, it'd make a huge difference to FFXVI. And I'd love to be able to play stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy and Plague Tale Requiem at 4k60.

 

[Topher]

I know this is borderline heresy but I think a major problem is this expectation that any Pro patch must be free of charge. I don't really get it. These things take work and provide value, so why should they be free? It's not just a normal patch where you're bringing the existing code up to the necessary standard, it's an appreciable improvement on the original scope.

Same thing happened last gen when we ended up with a bunch of earlier releases that just got forgotten about. Like you say, it'd make a huge difference to FFXVI. And I'd love to be able to play stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy and Plague Tale Requiem at 4k60.

You think folks should have to pay for Pro game upgrades?

 

[Jam Dingo]

You think folks should have to pay for Pro game upgrades?

I'd rather be able to pay for something I want than not get it at all. If it's worth it for them to do it for nothing, great. If not, yes, I'd like them to charge a price that makes it worthwhile.

But it won't happen because people are seriously irrational about what they think they should have to pay for.

 

[Topher]

I'd rather be able to pay for something I want than not get it at all. If it's worth it for them to do it for nothing, great. If not, yes, I'd like them to charge a price that makes it worthwhile.

But it won't happen because people are seriously irrational about what they think they should have to pay for.

That's not being irrational. No one bought a Pro with the expectation that Pro patches would cost money. If that was the case then Pro would be DOA day one.

 

[PeteBull]

Its on pair (sometimes bit better, sometimes bit worse, think +-5%) with 16gigs 9060xt

AMD Radeon RX 9060 XT 16 GB Specs

AMD Navi 44, 3130 MHz, 2048 Cores, 128 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2518 MHz, 128 bit

www.techpowerup.com

As u can see topend bis gpu currently, aka rtx 5090 is at +302% performance in games so over 4x stronger, add on top better rt and upscaling capabilities and gap grows even bigger, ofc it costs pretty penny, currently even pretty basic model is sitting at 3900$, and thats cheapest we can find online in the US thats avaiable now:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1875721-REG/gigabyte_gv_n5090gaming_oc_32gd_geforce_rtx_5090_gaming.html

If u wanna sit at bleeding edge of tech u gotta bleed money after all

 

[buenoblue]

I sold my launch PS5 a month before pro came out but was pretty underwelmed by the reviews so ive just stuck with pc (7800x3d 4070ti).
Now Sony stopping Pc ports im thinking about a Pro again. I nealry bought a used one for £400 before the price hike but i thought ill wait till near GTA 6 .

Used Ps5 pro is close to 600 atm and new is £779 on Amazon. So shall i just buy one now? Or should i get a used ps5 normal for £250 and wait till PS6. Ive just moved house so money is pretty tight. Is the Pro worth it?

 

[Jam Dingo]

That's not being irrational. No one bought a Pro with the expectation that Pro patches would cost money. If that was the case then Pro would be DOA day one.

That's not what I said. It's rational to expect Pro patches to be free, because people are irrational about which things they should have to pay for, which means that devs dare not charge for them. So the one is a rational expectation of developers reacting to irrationality of consumers.

 

[SScorpio]

I sold my launch PS5 a month before pro came out but was pretty underwelmed by the reviews so ive just stuck with pc (7800x3d 4070ti).
Now Sony stopping Pc ports im thinking about a Pro again. I nealry bought a used one for £400 before the price hike but i thought ill wait till near GTA 6 .

Used Ps5 pro is close to 600 atm and new is £779 on Amazon. So shall i just buy one now? Or should i get a used ps5 normal for £250 and wait till PS6. Ive just moved house so money is pretty tight. Is the Pro worth it?

There aren't any PS5 Pro exclusive games, anything you play on the Pro will work on the base model. If you are fine paying the 1-2 Sony exclusives you're interested in each year along with GTA6 at lower graphical settings. Then there's no reason to get a Pro.

IMO the even smarter play if you don't need to play GTA6 at launch. Just wait and don't buy either a PS5 or PS5 Pro. Hold off for the PS6 and just focus on playing games in your backlog. You'll get an even better experience, and will likely save money as there will be sales on the games you want to play versus doing day one purchases of everything.

 

[Bojji]

That's not being irrational. No one bought a Pro with the expectation that Pro patches would cost money. If that was the case then Pro would be DOA day one.

Both Pro upgrades and PS4-> PS5 (and now PS5 -> PS6) upgrades should be free. Publishers should care about this to maximize their sales with the best versions available, but those scumbags only think about quick bucks - pretty much half of PS4 library (or more) should already be ported to PS5.

Meanwhile on PC I can play 2009 build of Mirrors Edge in 4K 120FPS and it looks almost like a current gen title (with next gen physics).

 

[Topher]

Both Pro upgrades and PS4-> PS5 (and now PS5 -> PS6) upgrades should be free. Publishers should care about this to maximize their sales with the best versions available, but those scumbags only think about quick bucks - pretty much half of PS4 library (or more) should already be ported to PS5.

Meanwhile on PC I can play 2009 build of Mirrors Edge in 4K 120FPS and it looks almost like a current gen title (with next gen physics).

Ubisoft seems to be one of the few that figured out they can increase sales with just a rez and 60 fps patch. Adding value to old games to increase sales makes more sense than per patch fees to me.

 

[Jam Dingo]

Both Pro upgrades and PS4-> PS5 (and now PS5 -> PS6) upgrades should be free. Publishers should care about this to maximize their sales with the best versions available, but those scumbags only think about quick bucks - pretty much half of PS4 library (or more) should already be ported to PS5.

Meanwhile on PC I can play 2009 build of Mirrors Edge in 4K 120FPS and it looks almost like a current gen title (with next gen physics).

And this kind of shit is why we can't have what we want.

Thing A should be free because reasons. Thing B should be paid because other reasons.

And that's not irrational lol.

 

[Sethbacca]

These things take work and provide value, so why should they be free? It's not just a normal patch where you're bringing the existing code up to the necessary standard, it's an appreciable improvement on the original scope.

I feel like the problem with this is that it assumes that only people who currently have the game are going to benefit from this, when in reality ongoing maintenance of their game would serve as marketing to sell additional copies to people as they get their Pros. Developers with a good reputation for ongoing maintenance of their games are the ones that have games that tend to sell themselves.

 

[Bojji]

Ubisoft seems to be one of the few that figured out they can increase sales with just a rez and 60 fps patch. Adding value to old games to increase sales makes more sense than per patch fees to me.

Exacly, they do a little and gain a good PR and years of sales on PS5/PS6.

And this kind of shit is why we can't have what we want.

Thing A should be free because reasons. Thing B should be paid because other reasons.

And that's not irrational lol.

They should do this to maximize their sales on current gen and next gen platforms, VAST MAJORITY of games don't get remakes or remasters - but nothing stops developers from changing few .ini files to increase resolutions and unlock framerates from 30 to 60fps. It's as simple as that in most cases.

Combine that with social media PR push (similar to what Ubi is doing) and you get spikes in sales of old games.

 

[Topher]

I feel like the problem with this is that it assumes that only people who currently have the game are going to benefit from this, when in reality ongoing maintenance of their game would serve as marketing to sell additional copies to people as they get their Pros. Developers with a good reputation for ongoing maintenance of their games are the ones that have games that tend to sell themselves.

Building goodwill with gamers is an underutilized strategy for publishers and devs.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

The idiots at PlayStation are implying, or trying to deceive people, that the God of War Laufey and Wolverine games represent the pinnacle of PlayStation 5 technology, that the console can't handle any more power, and using that as an excuse to release the PS6 in 2027 or as soon as possible to sell it for the highest price...

And they are completely wrong and deceitful.

 

[SScorpio]

Ubisoft seems to be one of the few that figured out they can increase sales with just a rez and 60 fps patch. Adding value to old games to increase sales makes more sense than per patch fees to me.

And the engine is already setup to handle all of this as seen in the PC builds. There's likely testing that takes place to make sure performance isn't any issue. But otherwise it's just upping the settings.

The games that have dynamic resolution scaling, and dynamic graphical settings are the most interesting. A new console lets it run at max rez and max settings all the time. Instant remaster.

 

[Jam Dingo]

Exacly, they do a little and gain a good PR and years of sales on PS5/PS6.



They should do this to maximize their sales on current gen and next gen platforms, VAST MAJORITY of games don't get remakes or remasters - but nothing stops developers from changing few .ini files to increase resolutions and unlock framerates from 30 to 60fps. It's as simple as that in most cases.

Combine that with social media PR push (similar to what Ubi is doing) and you get spikes in sales of old games.

Well glad you've solved it for us! Get on to Square etc and tell them about this simple new money-making scheme none of them could possibly have figured out for themselves.

 

[Bojji]

Well glad you've solved it for us! Get on to Square etc and tell them about this simple new money-making scheme none of them could possibly have figured out for themselves.

Game publishers are making idiotic decisions all the time (and get punished for it, or not...).

It's rare for them to use their brains and do what gamers want.

 

[Jam Dingo]

Game publishers are making idiotic decisions all the time (and get punished for it, or not...).

It's rare for them to use their brains and do what gamers want.

There's no way someone like Square is not doing a Pro patch for FFXVI if it could be done in a few hours or whatever. There's just no way they're that idiotic.

A patch would boost goodwill and get people talking about the game again. If it was just a one-off I could maybe see it almost as just an oversight, but it's pretty common. It might even be the majority of older games.

 

[twilo99]

Its on pair (sometimes bit better, sometimes bit worse, think +-5%) with 16gigs 9060xt

AMD Radeon RX 9060 XT 16 GB Specs

AMD Navi 44, 3130 MHz, 2048 Cores, 128 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2518 MHz, 128 bit

www.techpowerup.com

As u can see topend bis gpu currently, aka rtx 5090 is at +302% performance in games so over 4x stronger, add on top better rt and upscaling capabilities and gap grows even bigger, ofc it costs pretty penny, currently even pretty basic model is sitting at 3900$, and thats cheapest we can find online in the US thats avaiable now:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1875721-REG/gigabyte_gv_n5090gaming_oc_32gd_geforce_rtx_5090_gaming.html

If u wanna sit at bleeding edge of tech u gotta bleed money after all

Come back when you get enough sleep

 

[winjer]

Come back when you get enough sleep

But he is right. The GPU that best matches the PS5 Pro is the 9060XT.

 

[PeteBull]

Come back when you get enough sleep

No idea what u mean but i got plenty of sleep here, im not american btw so w/e local time u thought im posting u were likely wrong, still this is american based forum and usd prices are known worldwide, they are great tools for comparisions

 

[twilo99]

But he is right. The GPU that best matches the PS5 Pro is the 9060XT.

Is that the kind of GPU you expect to find in a "high end PC"?

 

[winjer]

Is that the kind of GPU you expect to find in a "high end PC"?

No. Its for mid-low end systems.

 

[diffusionx]

I'm really angry with Square Enix because there's a lot of improvement in FF Rebirth, but they haven't improved my Final Fantasy XVI at all, and I'd love to replay that game with better features on PlayStation 5 Pro.

Replaying FF16…

 

[Topher]

Is that the kind of GPU you expect to find in a "high end PC"?

Your issue is with the tweet, not what PeteBull posted

 

[Karim]

No need of stupid hyperbole. Pro performance are fine for his specs whatever it means high pc specs.

 

[twilo99]

No. Its for mid-low end systems.

The x post we are discussing refers to something different

"PS5 Pro is on par with a high end PC in most cases."

9060xt is irrelevant, which is why I suggested a bit more sleep lol

 

[Pasta la Vista]

I know this is borderline heresy but I think a major problem is this expectation that any Pro patch must be free of charge. I don't really get it. These things take work and provide value, so why should they be free? It's not just a normal patch where you're bringing the existing code up to the necessary standard, it's an appreciable improvement on the original scope.

Same thing happened last gen when we ended up with a bunch of earlier releases that just got forgotten about. Like you say, it'd make a huge difference to FFXVI. And I'd love to be able to play stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy and Plague Tale Requiem at 4k60.

Retard detected. Imagine if people on PC had to pay more to unlock the power of their new GPU. Jfc you're an idiot.

 

[winjer]

The x post we are discussing refers to something different

"PS5 Pro is on par with a high end PC in most cases."

9060xt is irrelevant, which is why I suggested a bit more sleep lol

But the Pro is nowhere near a high end PC. Its performance is similar to a 9060XT. Not to a 5090. Not even a 5070Ti.

 

[twilo99]

But the Pro is nowhere near a high end PC. Its performance is similar to a 9060XT. Not to a 5090. Not even a 5070Ti.

Correct.

The x post I shared was meant to reinforce that fact in a not so obvious way