calico
Member
They disagreed when they bought them. They are very rapidly learning how mistaken they were.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Marathon approaching 15k CCU low (sponsored by coachmcguirk91 - still having a blast)
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
You espousing your inexperience in the field is not a boon to your ability in said field.
I don't really care what my Chess pieces look like. I might buy a skin down the road but it's not really something I care much about.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
+100 devs and a 5 season guarantee suggests you are wrong. It appears PlayStation thinkd this design might be able to get off the ground. Just needs a bit more thrust.
Last edited:
simpatico
Gold Member
So now you can see Bungie's plight. They made a game so pure and so tactical, that it only attracted the true digital samurai who cannot be bothered to dress up their pawn. All that matters is the honor of the battlefield. Skins give no tactical advantage, it's true. Bungie is suffering from success. They might not get the gratitude in this lifetime, but you can be sure Marathon is the only game in Valhalla.
Last edited:
calico
Member
The troop surge suggests desperation to me. They consider the massive losses they have had to acknowledge on the Bungie acquisition embarrassing and want to avoid the humiliation of an early and total failure on such a high profile game.
Where is there a 5 season guarantee backed by anything more than hot air?
They at least seem to have rejected your thoughts on how they ought to proceed and adopted mine (maybe they lurk here), so they for sure have a better chance of salvaging the situation than they did previously, but it's still only a small chance compared to no chance.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
I think you're mixing genre with features.
Moridianae
Member
Yeah, they chose a visual style that while unique, is just not very appealing.
Not much can be done to fix that since they'll obviously stick with it.
There's a lot of problems with Marathon and I don't know how much effort will result in the success they hope for.
You revealed a game(not unlike Suicide Squad) where the immediate reaction was "We didn't ask for this, this isn't what we want from you, etc."
It's wild to me that they decide to wait til the situation is dire heading into Season 2 to *then* try and make something that could be appealing.
It's...it's this double-down thing that has my brain hurting.
"Here's our game."
"We don't want this."
"Too bad, this is what you're getting"
"Okay. *closes wallet*"
"???? What is happening why isn't anyone buying this and players keep dropping?"
You were told from the beginning. It's like companies expect acquiesence and are flabbergasted when it doesn't happen.
"Accept McDonald's being $12 a meal now"
"No."
"Why aren't people coming in??"
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
What are their MTX numbers?
You have no experience in the field so history and reality don't impact your beliefs the way it does for those who have skin in the game.
You're led by emotion and your distaste of PvP / Live Service / Marathon. That's not a tactical position
100+ devs is not hot air. The Marathon dev team being in good spirits is not hot air.
You may be producing hot air. Marathon has resources behind it. Your words don't.
Certainly a mix. One thing that's certain though...Marathon has passed the DOA accusations.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Fair enough
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Well, marathon lacks a lot of features to create these "wildly different experiences".
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Spot on again! lol. Its amazing how easy it is to predict Marathon right to the dime (ok, it was actually off by 52 gamers around the world), or at minimum just be off a few %.
It's early, but 10 am completed hour. At 7.3k.
Comparing to last Saturday same 10 am. 8.8k. So -17%
Last Saturday peak 14.5k less -17% = 12k est peak.
Last edited:
calico
Member
And yet I am proving a better judge of the situation than them and supposed mega-fans of the genre. Weird. It is probably my very powerful objectivity and ability to see the woods for the trees.
Neither of these things amount to a guarantee. Indicating intent to support through to S5 does not mean it will happen, or that players will receive any compensation in the event it does not happen.
Not really a mix, no. You were exhaustively clear they only needed to persist with the original vision and not resort to drastic changes like pivoting toward pve, right up until they announced their intention to pivot towards pve. Then you had to embrace the pivot also because you have (bizarrely) made this game too big a part of your persona to diverge from it.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It does not appear so.
They both point to a tangible evidence that things are leaning in a positive direction. Your hot air, with no backing, obviously does not like the more compelling evidence.
Here's how we know you're wrong.
Look at the Marathon bros reaction in the OT. We're all hugging, crying, and giving eachother high fives as a result of the Ziegler decree.
You shadow creatures are breaking your backs moving the goalposts.
Evidence is a beautiful thing.
Last edited:
Timberwolf25
Member
Except that the business model of Gaas games is to sell you mtx like skins, weapon charms, emotes, etc.
Skins are likely the biggest sellers of mtx in Gaas games judging by what CoD, Fortnite, Apex, Destiny 2 pushes. Edit: Behind Battle Passes; which conicidently push skins as a reward for the different tiers.
In other words, what the chess pieces look like is a big part of the appeal for Gaas games.
Last edited:
simpatico
Gold Member
If even their most animated supporters aren't buying any, the situation can't be good. I know you're probably too locked in on tactics and angles during gameplay to check but record some runs and see if you can get a count on how many premium skins you see on other players. Surely we can assemble some anecdotals.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The reason why your position is so weak is that ALL OF YOU scurry to the shadows when I ask you the following...
Tell me exactly why the following skins are so superior to Marathon cosmetics:
Marathon looks significantly better than Rust, Valorant, and Fortnite. Your cosmetics argument has no merit.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
At least it's beating Skull & Bones in top sales chart.
Looks like Lust Goddess earns more mtx sales as a F2P game than Marathon at full price + their mtx. And Lust Goddess has a fraction of the CCU (columns on the right).
The Adventures of Sir Kicksalot at $11.69 CDN makes more money lately too. At 330 CCU as a new launch. That is literally less than $4,000 CDN of revenue.
Looks like Lust Goddess earns more mtx sales as a F2P game than Marathon at full price + their mtx. And Lust Goddess has a fraction of the CCU (columns on the right).
The Adventures of Sir Kicksalot at $11.69 CDN makes more money lately too. At 330 CCU as a new launch. That is literally less than $4,000 CDN of revenue.
Last edited:
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Just tell me their MTX conversion rate. Be as specific as possible.
Plague Doctor
Member
At least it's beating Skull & Bones in top sales chart.
Looks like Lust Goddess earns more mtx sales as a F2P game than Marathon at full price + their mtx. And Lust Goddess has a fraction of the CCU (columns on the right).
The Adventures of Sir Kicksalot at $11.69 CDN makes more money lately too. At 330 CCU as a new launch. That is literally less than $4,000 CDN of revenue.
Bungie has some stiff competition with Lust Goddess.
calico
Member
Indeed:
It seems they concur that your assessment was delusional, that they were not on the right track and that drastic action was in fact necessary.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Clearly this means Sony should buy the creators of Lust Goddess for $3.7 billion.At least it's beating Skull & Bones in top sales chart.
Looks like Lust Goddess earns more mtx sales as a F2P game than Marathon at full price + their mtx. And Lust Goddess has a fraction of the CCU (columns on the right).
The Adventures of Sir Kicksalot at $11.69 CDN makes more money lately too. At 330 CCU as a new launch. That is literally less than $4,000 CDN of revenue.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Great thing about that chart is it caught Sir Kicksalot at launch (yesterday). So it was easy to calculate revenue of peak CCU. I dont think that's the type of game that will pile up tons of backlogging gamers. Now we know a game ranked about 260th makes about $3,800 CDN (or about $2,800 US) minimum. So the overall revenue at that rank is probably barely more than that. You can even be generous and just round up to $5,000 US and it'd probably be pretty close.
Last edited:
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Marathon bros after the Ziegler tweet:
Marathon haters after the Ziegler tweet:
That's all the evidence I need.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Probably the other way around.Marathon bros after the Ziegler tweet:
Marathon haters after the Ziegler tweet:
That's all the evidence I need.
Timberwolf25
Member
The reason why your position is so weak is that ALL OF YOU scurry to the shadows when I ask you the following...
Tell me exactly why the following skins are so superior to Marathon cosmetics:
Marathon looks significantly better than Rust, Valorant, and Fortnite. Your cosmetics argument has no merit.
The base model is shit af that noone cares to dress it up in cosmetics.
Pay attention! The BASE MODEL sucks which is why people are not likely to buy cosmetics to dress that up to begin with. The cosmetics are there to enhance or sell fan service to the base model.
For an extreme example, take a peg legged extremely obese characters as a base model, no matter what you put on it, it will continue to be vomit inducing. Now Marathon models are not as bad as that example, but they also don't inspire the regular gaming population to want to open up their wallets to dress that pig up.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Tell me why the base models in Rust, Valorant, and Fortnite are so much better than the ones in Marathon.
I want to hear genuine artistic analysis from you.
Timberwolf25
Member
lol, I don't really care what you want. The proof is in the pudding as those games have made billions selling mtx.
Tell me why the base models in Rust, Valorant, and Fortnite are so much better than the ones in Marathon.
I want to hear genuine artistic analysis from you.
Meanwhile, Marathon hasn't even broke even.
Last edited:
calico
Member
Evidence that your opinion is not really your own and therefore not particularly meaningful.
If they had said they were all in on pvp come what may, you would be arguing that is the correct decision just as fervently. Now that they have instead announced an emergency pivot to pve -directly contrary to your previous statements on how they should proceed- you have 180'd overnight to adopting that position.
It is mindless fanboy behaviour, not the conduct of someone who has actual opinions on the subject.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Timberwolf25
Member
100% this.
falconhoof
Member
Much, much worse than Destiny 2. Streets posted the list of games it's earning around. You can see it, you know it's not good even if you don't have the exact dollar and cent amount written in front of you.
Sunk. Cost. Fallacy.
It's so fucking real.
You have companies who will throw more to try and save the investment. It's a basic statement: Say the word, kill it now and knowingly see all that investment gone. Make an effort to save it by spending more, you might only be a few tweaks from victory and all that money will not be lost. Or you might not have the option to because the account is dry, which has probably been the case for most scenarios like this and thus we've never seen the full picture of just how many other projects (not just video games) would have been efforts in falling for the sunk cost fallacy trap.
I have worked on a AAA game that fell foul to this. It was so fucking obvious to everyone, yet the company still elected to try and save it by throwing extra people (at the cost of those people not working on the other games at the studio, which hurt those productions) and pushing launch back (ergo even more cost). Financially it worked out, a marketing and brand push helped recoup costs in the early days, but the brand value afterwards took a massive hit. This was a push by the shareholders that wanted to see a price spike. They could dump shares so they didn't care about long term brand value.
Last edited:
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I've maintained Extraction as Star Trek for a while now. Bungie clarifying their Marathon as Star Trek vision is a feather in my cap.
Last edited:
cormack12
Gold Member
Bungie's model will now be to course correct and walk back this weird shit hybrid of a game, hopefully fix it, then sell another $40 expansion which is essential. Sell the same game repeatedly if they can't GaaS it out.
Nothing was learned.
Then Maraverse will drop Year 3.
Nothing was learned.
Then Maraverse will drop Year 3.
Plague Doctor
Member
Giving up the original hardcore only vision due to overwhelming unpopularity and adding in pve which they should have done from the start with a ticking clock above their head from Sony = Total fucking victory. 4D Chess. The plan from the start,
Bungie been doing the long con.
Last edited:
Tams
Member
falconhoof
Member
Think about all those Bungie developers who could be making content and improvements to the more popular game, but aren't, yet it's still pulling in a higher DAU, more player hours, much more money.
Sunk Cost Fallacy
Sunk Cost Fallacy
Roman Empire
Member
I'm eating a burger while watching those steam charts numbers.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Kronark
Member
I mean this with the upmost respect and tenderness, but I think Bungie understands MTX exponentially more than you.
I'm not sure they do entirely... Like yes they were able to sell a ton of eververse crap in Destiny and make money on that, but they started to cut more and more into seasonal themed cosmetics to do it. Things that would have been raid rewards or rewards for accomplishments were suddenly missing and instead found in the shop for $$$. This bolstered some revenue for them for sure but this kind of shit burned them and player sentiment in the long term. You'd get Bungie saying they just couldn't make a core playlist armor set that year because of resources, but then 12 armor sets came to the seasonal passes and eververse store... Bungie sold DLC but they never found a balance or sustainable business model.
I'm tired of this kind of appeal to big companies as if they inherently know what they're doing and no one knows better. Bungie is in a financial hole so deep they can't see sunlight, and if they were still independent I think there's a strong chance they would have closed shop after Destiny 2 year 8 and the flop of Marathon. I would not look to them as experts on sustainable business or profitability at all.
Last edited:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Nuts. It looks like on May 12th they even cross paths. I checked the data and on that day D2's full day peak was higher than Marathon by about 100 CCU.Think about all those Bungie developers who could be making content and improvements to the more popular game, but aren't, yet it's still pulling in a higher DAU, more player hours, much more money.
Sunk Cost Fallacy
Last edited:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Give Marathon credit. It's selling better than Mixtape.
But looks like it needs a bit more sales to jump over Slay the Princess - The Pristine Cut. A game that came out in Oct 2023 with 370 CCU and an all time peak of about 2,500 gamers.
It goes to show what little revenue Marathon generates in sales copies and mtx skins when you got total noname games with negligible CCU playing the game. Yet they earn more revenue than Marathon. And when it comes to odd games like this let's not pretend there's millions of gamers buying it and backlogging to play it another day. Same could be said for Marathon then.
Games like Fishing Planet and World of Sea Battle are F2P. So they wouldnt even have backlogging unknowns. It's pure mtx. They generate more revenue than Marathon with less than 5,000 people playing.
But looks like it needs a bit more sales to jump over Slay the Princess - The Pristine Cut. A game that came out in Oct 2023 with 370 CCU and an all time peak of about 2,500 gamers.
It goes to show what little revenue Marathon generates in sales copies and mtx skins when you got total noname games with negligible CCU playing the game. Yet they earn more revenue than Marathon. And when it comes to odd games like this let's not pretend there's millions of gamers buying it and backlogging to play it another day. Same could be said for Marathon then.
Games like Fishing Planet and World of Sea Battle are F2P. So they wouldnt even have backlogging unknowns. It's pure mtx. They generate more revenue than Marathon with less than 5,000 people playing.
Last edited:
Salmorejo
Member
This is much worse than current CCU.Give Marathon credit. It's selling better than Mixtape.
But looks like it needs a bit more sales to jump over Slay the Princess - The Pristine Cut. A game that came out in Oct 2023 with 370 CCU and an all time peak of about 2,500 gamers.
It goes to show what little revenue Marathon generates in sales copies and mtx skins when you got total noname games with negligible CCU playing the game. Yet they earn more revenue than Marathon. And when it comes to odd games like this let's not pretend there's millions of gamers buying it and backlogging to play it another day. Same could be said for Marathon then.
Games like Fishing Planet and World of Sea Battle are F2P. So they wouldnt even have backlogging unknowns. It's pure mtx. They generate more revenue than Marathon with less than 5,000 people playing.
Plague Doctor
Member
Give Marathon credit. It's selling better than Mixtape.
But looks like it needs a bit more sales to jump over Slay the Princess - The Pristine Cut. A game that came out in Oct 2023 with 370 CCU and an all time peak of about 2,500 gamers.
It goes to show what little revenue Marathon generates in sales copies and mtx skins when you got total noname games with negligible CCU playing the game. Yet they earn more revenue than Marathon. And when it comes to odd games like this let's not pretend there's millions of gamers buying it and backlogging to play it another day. Same could be said for Marathon then.
Games like Fishing Planet and World of Sea Battle are F2P. So they wouldnt even have backlogging unknowns. It's pure mtx. They generate more revenue than Marathon with less than 5,000 people playing.
Marathon may be the omega game but it is not the perfect game like Mixtape.
Journalists found 90s Jesus in that game. We, as lesser people not being gaming journalists, are just beginning to understand the perfection of Mixtape like the journalists above us.
Mixtape plays itself cause it is that fucking good. And in just three hours.
Marathon is many things, but it does not play itself. Extraction can never and will never do Mixtape.
Decades from now, we will all remember where we were in 2026 when the world was changed forever by the release of Mixtape.
Praise be with Anita.
Last edited:
Bernardougf
Member
At this point I cant understand why you people keep engaging with the boxed men .. he is clearly trolling, the 180 about the pve is all you needed to know that he is a troll and dont want to have a honest conversation.
Toytown Assassin
Member
I give him a pass cos supporting the bills has clearly broken him
Bernardougf
Member
I find his schtick kind of funny ... but that changes when bad faith is involved, then is not a schtick anymore its just active fanboy trolling
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
He acts too autistic to be a troll, and its funny to bully him and see what he tries next
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll