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[Mr Reasonable]

To now hear it could potentially launch this high specced & priced console, without Steam, just doesn't seem like it's worth the effort.

It won't be that high specced (higher spec than PS6, but not earth shattering) it won't be that high priced (same ballpark as PS6).

It'll be worth it to millions of Xbox players, and will be the best performance for price ratio, and with the additional PC games available in the Xbox store it'll have wider range of games available.

So, in that sense it might not be worth it to you, but it'll be well supported and high performing at a reasonable price. That's not an unattractive package, unless you were never going to get an Xbox on principal. In which case, it hardly seems worth your time talking about it.

 

[Fafalada]

will be bigger diff than ps5 vs xsx, probably more like ps4pro vs xsx so rather easy to notice

If Helix is to PS6 what XSX is to PS4Pro - then yes, Microsoft would have a winner on their hands as that would outperform even the difference between Dreamcast and the original XBox.
And that '25%' is missing a 0.

 

[Bojji]

If Helix is to PS6 what XSX is to PS4Pro - then yes, Microsoft would have a winner on their hands as that would outperform even the difference between Dreamcast and the original XBox.
And that '25%' is missing a 0.

Of course he meant X1X - that massively outperformed PS4 Pro.

 

[Radical_3d]

Of course he meant X1X - that massively outperformed PS4 Pro.

Except in sales

 

[Bojji]

Except in sales

Yep. Do we even know PS4 Pro and X1X sales?

 

[Steve Holt]

It won't be that high specced (higher spec than PS6, but not earth shattering) it won't be that high priced (same ballpark as PS6).

It'll be worth it to millions of Xbox players, and will be the best performance for price ratio, and with the additional PC games available in the Xbox store it'll have wider range of games available.

So, in that sense it might not be worth it to you, but it'll be well supported and high performing at a reasonable price. That's not an unattractive package, unless you were never going to get an Xbox on principal. In which case, it hardly seems worth your time talking about it.

If it's 25% faster you would imagine with Sony subsidising their consoles and with Xbox targeting a very, very niche market and factoring in profit margins into their RRP now it almost certainly can't be in the same ballpark as the PS6 in price. Probably 50% more and that's optimistic.
This Xbox won't be appealing to the mass crowd.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

If it actually works with Steam I could see myself getting this over PS6.

 

[Edgelord79]

and we all know how being faster worked out last time…

 

[midnightAI]

If it's 25% faster you would imagine with Sony subsidising their consoles and with Xbox targeting a very, very niche market and factoring in profit margins into their RRP now it almost certainly can't be in the same ballpark as the PS6 in price. Probably 50% more and that's optimistic.
This Xbox won't be appealing to the mass crowd.

The question is, 25% faster (if it is that, and I have doubts) at what?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

If it's 25% faster you would imagine with Sony subsidising their consoles and with Xbox targeting a very, very niche market and factoring in profit margins into their RRP now it almost certainly can't be in the same ballpark as the PS6 in price. Probably 50% more and that's optimistic.
This Xbox won't be appealing to the mass crowd.

There's no point in releasing hardware that is so much more expensive for so little comparable gain. Microsoft would have just pulled out of the market rather than spending all the money to R&D and market a console that is aimed at a hardcore niche who they'd be serving to valve as new customers.

A significant number of people are getting everything wrong about what this console will be, what it'll cost and who it's for. (Imo)

 

[Bojji]

The question is, 25% faster (if it is that, and I have doubts) at what?

It's faster in every aspect: CPU, GPU, memory BW...

 

[Fafalada]

Of course he meant X1X - that massively outperformed PS4 Pro.

I know - but that delta was also much larger than 25% on paper.
In fact I'm not sure why every time the spec delta is alluded to be this small, the conversation ahead of launch is centered on inflating the outcomes.
Or maybe it's just for MS consoles.

 

[Bojji]

I know - but that delta was also much larger than 25% on paper.
In fact I'm not sure why every time the spec delta is alluded to be this small, the conversation ahead of launch is centered on inflating the outcomes.
Or maybe it's just for MS consoles.

I think it can be more than 25%, depending on the game.

 

[Fafalada]

I think it can be more than 25%, depending on the game.

Obviously right now it's all entirely speculative - but it's the ballpark of it all.
Lead-up to PS5/XSX launch was the same - lest we forget the "REVII struggles at 1080p on PS5 while 4k on XSX" and similar...

Meanwhile - when we were headed to PS4/X1 launch - the hw-gap was 50-150% depending on the spec you looked at, and the narratives were - incredibly optimistic about 'how close' the consoles would be.
But ever since then the hw-gaps kept getting smaller and expectations keep getting more inflated (despite the obvious diminishing returns on top of hw-gaps shrinking).

 

[MacReady13]

Microsoft will actually lose money. They'll need to make that money back and immediately.

Is this Microsoft- the 3 trillion dollar company you're talking about? I think they might just be ok...

 

[midnightAI]

It's faster in every aspect: CPU, GPU, memory BW...

Is it? Is that what he alluded to? The Series X was supposedly massively faster than PS5 because they used TF as a guage for speed, didn't work out that way though did it. Much of the optimisations will be due to ML and how that is used, RT/PT/Memory optimisations through compression will all play a major part next gen and who utilises these better, what we 'could' end up with is brute force Vs better optimisation and we'll have to see who comes out on top in that scenario if that is the case, which is better we'll see (this is pure guesswork on my part but Sony working very close with AMD on ML and compression (again) 'could' have massive benefits.

 

[Ozriel]

If you are going to make a performance statement make it properly even if you have to charge $2000.

Whatever they are doing is a comprising effort typical for "traditional" consoles

Yeah right. On release, this will be more powerful than 80% of gaming PCs in use.

The specs don't compromise on ML framegen or upscaling, don't compromise on VRAM, has a very decent CPU and will have fast storage and strong Ray tracing capabilities.

Where are you seeing the compromise?

 

[Bojji]

Is it? Is that what he alluded to? The Series X was supposedly massively faster than PS5 because they used TF as a guage for speed, didn't work out that way though did it. Much of the optimisations will be due to ML and how that is used, RT/PT/Memory optimisations through compression will all play a major part next gen and who utilises these better, what we 'could' end up with is brute force Vs better optimisation and we'll have to see who comes out on top in that scenario if that is the case, which is better we'll see (this is pure guesswork on my part but Sony working very close with AMD on ML and compression (again) 'could' have massive benefits.

Machines are using the same architecture, you won't get "better optimization" on one of them vs the other. Differences can only show with how heavy is OS and APIs.

Xbox will have more cores and faster full Zen 6 cores, higher memory bandwidth and more memory, bigger and more powerful GPU.

Last gen Xbox GPU was faster in some aspects but thanks to lower clock it was also losing in some aspects. And depending on the game this could show different results. This time GPU clock should be closer.

Last gen CPUs were the same and Xbox had higher memory BW, but split memory pool was causing issues in some games.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

If Helix is to PS6 what XSX is to PS4Pro - then yes, Microsoft would have a winner on their hands as that would outperform even the difference between Dreamcast and the original XBox.
And that '25%' is missing a 0.

misspelled obviously ;d ps4pro vx xox

 

[sncvsrtoip]

If Helix is to PS6 what XSX is to PS4Pro - then yes, Microsoft would have a winner on their hands as that would outperform even the difference between Dreamcast and the original XBox.
And that '25%' is missing a 0.

But 25% is from moore law and imo he is simply wrong here. As Kepler said it wont be ps5 vs xsx siutation as helix will have advantage in every measurable hw spec (especially cpu and bandwidth) so imo it will be closer to ps4pro vs xbox one x situation.

 

[midnightAI]

Machines are using the same architecture, you won't get "better optimization" on one of them vs the other. Differences can only show with how heavy is OS and APIs.

Xbox will have more cores and faster full Zen 6 cores, higher memory bandwidth and more memory, bigger and more powerful GPU.

Last gen Xbox GPU was faster in some aspects but thanks to lower clock it was also losing in some aspects. And depending on the game this could show different results. This time GPU clock will be close on both.

Last gen CPUs were the same and Xbox had higher memory BW, but split memory pool was causing issues in some games.

Again though, we don't know this, all we can go off is a rumour. I'm not saying it won't be faster, it probably will be, however, do we know they are exactly the same? Currently, we don't, will MS do something daft like split memory pools again? We don't know that for sure. You keep saying they'll do this, they'll do that, but we won't know until official announcements, that's all I'm saying, it may not be as clear cut as we think.

 

[Bojji]

Again though, we don't know this, all we can go off is a rumour. I'm not saying it won't be faster, it probably will be, however, do we know they are exactly the same? Currently, we don't, will MS do something daft like split memory pools again? We don't know that for sure. You keep saying they'll do this, they'll do that, but we won't know until official announcements, that's all I'm saying, it may not be as clear cut as we think.

Of course it's all rumor based, we have nothing else.

RDNA5 is confirmed for both.

 

[Steve Holt]

But 25% is from moore law and imo he is simply wrong here. As Kepler said it wont be ps5 vs xsx siutation as helix will have advantage in every measurable hw spec (especially cpu and bandwidth) so imo it will be closer to ps4pro vs xbox one x situation.

With AI upscalers and fake frames tech constantly evolving by the time the two machines are both launched the differences would be much more negligible in comparisons. I would have thought at least.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

With AI upscalers and fake frames tech constantly evolving by the time the two machines are both launched the differences would be much more negligible in comparisons. I would have thought at least.

Thats possible but also can imagine some games have ray tracing on high on ps6 and path tracing on helix. For example if to achieve pt on helix devs had to go internal res bellow 1080p(900p) they will possible dont bother with ps6 as image quality will be too low.

 

[Fafalada]

But 25% is from moore law and imo he is simply wrong here. As Kepler said it wont be ps5 vs xsx siutation as helix will have advantage in every measurable hw spec (especially cpu and bandwidth) so imo it will be closer to ps4pro vs xbox one x situation.

I mean I have seen no actual specs so it's completely hand-waving to me, and for all I know the delta could be even larger.
But the point is 1X had a substantially larger advantage than 25% on individual specs - whatever those end up being.
Though yes - it didn't have a CPU advantage - but then all the differences we ended up with were graphical anyway.

 

[midnightAI]

Of course it's all rumor based, we have nothing else.

RDNA5 is confirmed for both.

Sure, but as you know, both will be customised so we'll have to see who prioritised what and how those are implemented.

 

[Bojji]

Sure, but as you know, both will be customised so we'll have to see who prioritised what and how those are implemented.

From what we can see Xbox will just have bigger and better GPU. Also a bit "newer" (full RDNA5) vs. PS6.

There is nothing about customization in current rumors (I think?).

 

[midnightAI]

From what we can see Xbox will just have bigger and better GPU. Also a bit "newer" (full RDNA5) vs. PS6.

There is nothing about customization in current rumors (I think?).

They will both be custom, that's the nature of the beast when ordering these things, but (so far at least) Sony has never had an out of the box GPU from AMD, neither has MS. This time may be different 'if' MS go the PC hybrid route, but even then I still think it will be custom, I don't even buy the hybrid theory (heh, Linkin Park), I do think it will be a proper console they release and I actually don't think it will be over a grand either, but we'll see (I think that was the initial plan, with all the internal changes at MS I think they may go in a slightly different direction, but that's purely guess work on my part)

 

[reinking]

I have no idea what to expect anymore. I do not think raw horsepower is going to be that important when it comes to the Helix vs PS6. If the Helix/hybrid PC rumors are true, they are two very different machines. I do not think traditional PlayStation players will even consider the Helix a console (if rumors are true). If anything, I think the Helix power advantage will compare more to mid-range PC gaming than PlayStation gaming (if rumors are true). I know I will be looking at the Helix as a dedicated Windows gaming "PC" replacement (if the rumors are true).

Price is probably going to be a big factor. 25%+ power comes at what % price increase? There is a reason not every PC gamer has a 5090. People tend to spend within their budget, or at least what they can cough up at the time of purchase. Console gaming cost is already on the rise, adding a premium price product on top of that is going to be a hard pill to swallow for most console gamers. They are not used to spending 1k+ like PC gamers are accustomed to.

 

[Tobimacoss]

it probably is gonna be limited to Microsoft Store installs, but there's no good reason for Valve not to be on there.

the only major launchers missing from the Microsoft Store are Steam and EA. Ubisoft, GoG, and Epic are already there, EA will probably follow soon (they already have some integration with the Xbox App due to Gamepass).

I know Valve is a bit weird about this kinda stuff, but I don't see the issue with having your storefront available as easily as possible.

Valve doesn't even need to be on MS Store. Because MS Store has integration with WinGet package manager. MS could install Steam securely and run it in a container without Valve or user needing to do anything.

Browse the winget repository - winstall

Bulk install Windows apps quickly with Windows Package Manager.

winstall.app

You can browse the WinGet repository there.

Install Steam with WinGet | winstall

Install Steam via WinGet. Copy the winget install command instantly. Steam is the ultimate destination for playing, discussing, and creating games.

winstall.app

 

[Tobimacoss]

I have no idea what to expect anymore. I do not think raw horsepower is going to be that important when it comes to the Helix vs PS6. If the Helix/hybrid PC rumors are true, they are two very different machines. I do not think traditional PlayStation players will even consider the Helix a console (if rumors are true). If anything, I think the Helix power advantage will compare more to mid-range PC gaming than PlayStation gaming (if rumors are true). I know I will be looking at the Helix as a dedicated Windows gaming "PC" replacement (if the rumors are true).

Price is probably going to be a big factor. 25%+ power comes at what % price increase? There is a reason not every PC gamer has a 5090. People tend to spend within their budget, or at least what they can cough up at the time of purchase. Console gaming cost is already on the rise, adding a premium price product on top of that is going to be a hard pill to swallow for most console gamers. They are not used to spending 1k+ like PC gamers are accustomed to.

Helix Consoles are simply meant to be the primary fixed spec hardware for devs to target and optimize toward, for the entirety of Windows PC gaming ecosystems. Xbox PC/Helix SKU will have Helix Optimized profiles, Epic and Steam would need to add their own profiles in their game dev tools.

Helix isn't just one device though, but a portfolio of devices, there will be cheaper console or Xbox PC options.

 

[reinking]

Helix Consoles are simply meant to be the primary fixed spec hardware for devs to target and optimize toward, for the entirety of Windows PC gaming ecosystems. Xbox PC/Helix SKU will have Helix Optimized profiles, Epic and Steam would need to add their own profiles in their game dev tools.

Helix isn't just one device though, but a portfolio of devices, there will be cheaper console or Xbox PC options.

I am just letting it play out at this point. I hope we get real information from MS soon. Same goes for Sony. My opinion in that post still stands. I do not think raw horsepower is going to be the deciding factor between the PS6 and Helix. Especially if Helix turns out to be more PC than console.

 

[Bojji]

They will both be custom, that's the nature of the beast when ordering these things, but (so far at least) Sony has never had an out of the box GPU from AMD, neither has MS. This time may be different 'if' MS go the PC hybrid route, but even then I still think it will be custom, I don't even buy the hybrid theory (heh, Linkin Park), I do think it will be a proper console they release and I actually don't think it will be over a grand either, but we'll see (I think that was the initial plan, with all the internal changes at MS I think they may go in a slightly different direction, but that's purely guess work on my part)

Xbox GPUs are actually super close to being stock.

X1 was GCN1 - PS4 almost the same but with better GPGPU functionality

Xbox One X is stock Polaris, PS4 pro is Polaris with one or two things from Vega architecture.

PS5 is very close to RDNA1 with RDNA2 RT, it has cache scrubbers but other than that it has nothing beyond AMD architectures. Series X is almost stock RDNA2 without infinity cache and with surprisingly low clock.

PS5 pro has the most custom AMD GPU so far. With elements from RDNA2, RDNA4 and even ML not found in any other AMD architecture.

 

[kevboard]

Valve doesn't even need to be on MS Store. Because MS Store has integration with WinGet package manager. MS could install Steam securely and run it in a container without Valve or user needing to do anything.

Browse the winget repository - winstall

Bulk install Windows apps quickly with Windows Package Manager.

winstall.app

You can browse the WinGet repository there.

Install Steam with WinGet | winstall

Install Steam via WinGet. Copy the winget install command instantly. Steam is the ultimate destination for playing, discussing, and creating games.

winstall.app

if winget works on it then that would be a way yes.

I could also see them adding a way to sideload install files, maybe behind a setting like Android that warns you that it's dangerous to install unverified programs or something

 

[Gamer79]

I believe the prices of both will cause them both to miss projections,

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Xbox GPUs are actually super close to being stock.

X1 was GCN1 - PS4 almost the same but with better GPGPU functionality

Xbox One X is stock Polaris, PS4 pro is Polaris with one or two things from Vega architecture.

PS5 is very close to RDNA1 with RDNA2 RT, it has cache scrubbers but other than that it has nothing beyond AMD architectures. Series X is almost stock RDNA2 without infinity cache and with surprisingly low clock.

PS5 pro has the most custom AMD GPU so far. With elements from RDNA2, RDNA4 and even ML not found in any other AMD architecture.

From my memory ps4pro had Rapid Packed Math (2x fp16) that was introduced later by vega, not available for amd gpu during ps4pro release (polaris).

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Bro WTF?!?! The Helix chip is almost twice the size of the PS6 chip. Add in the extra cost for the motherboard, cooling, etc. Then add in the fact that they'll allow other store fronts on Helix and that'll make the price shoot up fast. There's no world where the PS6 is only 10-20% less in retail cost than Helix.

Check the BOM break up.

Most expensive components are SSD and RAM.

Thread 'PS6S Budget Model Rumored at $350-$550 According to MLID'

Apr 10, 2026

According to MLID, Sony might be working on a cheaper PS6S type console alongside the main PS6.

The idea is basically a cut down version of the same APU used in the PS6 handheld, just without the screen and battery. So more like a small traditional living room console focused on efficiency and cost rather than high end performance.

If this turns out to be real, pricing could land somewhere around $350 to $550, making it the entry level option in a possible three tier setup. PS6 as the premium...

• Merline
• Replies: 934
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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[PlayStaytion]

will be bigger diff than ps5 vs xsx, probably more like ps4pro vs xox so rather easy to notice

Each publisher utilize that power differently, I like Bandai Namco's approach, they purposely draw bigger areas with large geometry objects while Capcom focus on highly detailed environments. UE5/6 maybe it's greatest enemy, so stupid to distinguish the difference.

 

[DR3AM]

With Helix you are getting a PS6 Pro
MS does it again
Day 1

 

[reinking]

With Helix you are getting a PS6 Pro
MS does it again
Day 1

 

[mckmas8808]

Is this Microsoft- the 3 trillion dollar company you're talking about? I think they might just be ok...

Ugh....that's not how any of this works. If it did, they wouldn't have started putting games on Playstation on Nintendo systems.

 

[DavidGzz]

They will probably have similar enough graphics. I will own both. Bring on next gen.

 

[mckmas8808]

Check the BOM break up.

Most expensive components are SSD and RAM.

Thread 'PS6S Budget Model Rumored at $350-$550 According to MLID'

Apr 10, 2026

According to MLID, Sony might be working on a cheaper PS6S type console alongside the main PS6.

The idea is basically a cut down version of the same APU used in the PS6 handheld, just without the screen and battery. So more like a small traditional living room console focused on efficiency and cost rather than high end performance.

If this turns out to be real, pricing could land somewhere around $350 to $550, making it the entry level option in a possible three tier setup. PS6 as the premium...

• Merline
• Replies: 934
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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Yes, and the rumored BOM for the PS6 is around $750. And the rumored BOM for Helix is $950. A $200 difference in the cost of materials alone. That doesn't include the fact that MS can't rely on ecosystem sales like they used to with this console\PC hybrid model, whereas the PS6 can and will be sold at a loss at launch.

Don't be overly shocked if the PS6 is $750 at launch and Helix is $1300.

 

[Tobimacoss]

With Helix you are getting a PS6 Pro
MS does it again
Day 1

Helix Flagship Console isn't the PS6 Pro. The PS6 Pro would be a 96 or 154 CU Xbox PC. Well the 154 CU device would be more like a PS7 Pro. Same Helix/Xbox PC SKU, optimized for Helix Console, scalable for Xbox PCs. And therein lies the magic. No limits for the Xbox ecosystem.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Yes, and the rumored BOM for the PS6 is around $750. And the rumored BOM for Helix is $950. A $200 difference in the cost of materials alone. That doesn't include the fact that MS can't rely on ecosystem sales like they used to with this console\PC hybrid model, whereas the PS6 can and will be sold at a loss at launch.

Don't be overly shocked if the PS6 is $750 at launch and Helix is $1300.

Just because MS is no longer subsidizing, doesn't mean they need that much profits on hardware. Also, Helix is NOT one single device, there's no limits to what Helix can be, with either of the 5 AMD GPU dies. Different power levels at different price points.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yep. Do we even know PS4 Pro and X1X sales?

Estimates have it at:

PS4 Pro: 15 million units sold
X1X: 5 million units sold

 

[mckmas8808]

Just because MS is no longer subsidizing, doesn't mean they need that much profits on hardware. Also, Helix is NOT one single device, there's no limits to what Helix can be, with either of the 5 AMD GPU dies. Different power levels at different price points.

Didn't yall just tell us that MS will be ending paid Multiplayer for Helix?

 

[DevilHunterX0]

Great, they can rush faster to the last place again this time.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Didn't yall just tell us that MS will be ending paid Multiplayer for Helix?

Yes, that's what you do on an open platform. The Consoles are open for competition, closed for security. MS focus is to lead in game Subscription and Streaming, forming the most complete universal ecosystem. Two things Epic and Steam can't match.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I see the marching orders have been handed out. The cheque must have cleared. Looks like we get to see Helix crash and burn after all.