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[StreetsofBeige]

Checking the comments on the Taul Passi. Ngl, the level of defensiveness on this game is kind of unnerving and it's good it is being called out.

Real question, why are people going out of their way to defend this game like it was a blood relative? I mean, it makes it funnier to dunk on its dwindling numbers but it's bizarre.

They sorta torture themselves with it I feel, like for example I have games I like that aren't darlings... Like I don't think Starfield is a bad awful game but I know some pin it as shit and there's nothing I'm gonna do to change their mind so I just am more selective when I engage, but I'm not gonna just frustrate myself tryin to convince people that can't be convinced it's a decent game.

The funny thing about when people bring up toxic behavior, I don't think busting Balls or critiquing a game is toxic but people trtin to silence people from those things is what's toxic.

Some people are naturally defensive. Not just gaming. Can be anything. Why are some friends and fam (or perhaps any of us on gaf) are ones where if someone calls you fat or bald you laugh it off? But then someone else being called fat or bald and the person goes hyperspastic?

For games, it's one of those things people are defensive because they dont want to be labeled spending money playing a bad or dead game. And for a MP it's worse because when the online base dwindles so does the matchmaking and getting into a lobby. Made worse for any MP games with zero SP mode or no offline bot matches (something even old ass Unreal programmed into their game over 25 years ago). So once youre stuck with it, youre done. At least for SP games or a game with lots of MP modes or bot mode, a gamer can play it at any time.

Again, some gamers care, some dont. I enjoy playing all kinds of weird games I find on Steam for dirt cheap. Lots of obscure card and board games most people have never heard of. If someone calls games like Talisman, Sagrada, Isle of Skye or Roll Player totally gay, go ahead. I dont care. But then some gamers would fight back hard to justify their purchase.

 

[Guilty_AI]

So, in a scale of concord to fortnite, how is this game currently doing?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So, in a scale of concord to fortnite, how is this game currently doing?

Around The Veilguard levels; praised by media and gamers smacking journos and devs into reality.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So, in a scale of concord to fortnite, how is this game currently doing?

In terms of budget and expectations, it's up there but a notch or two below Fortnite.

In terms of actual dwindling user base, it currently matches up almost exactly to L4D2 - a game that came out in 2009 during the 360/PS3 gen.

At current trending, L4D2 will pass Marathon permanently at both the highs and lows of the day. It's actually pretty stable day to day. Marathon is a nosedive. Give it a couple more days or a week.

 

[rm082e]

In terms of actual dwindling user base, it currently matches up almost exactly to L4D2 - a game that came out in 2009 during the 360/PS3 gen.

Jesus...Arc Raiders did way better than I expected, but this is actually doing worse than I thought it would.

 

[ValiantInstance]

Yeah I cant remember another safe space OT ... I can be wrong though .... and I think equally people driving by to shit post here not touching the subject should be thread banned too ... seems only fair... but than again is fun watching the meltdowns and tantrums

Nah, the further it falls the funnier it is when a member of the Marathon Defense Force pops their head in here.

 

[Kronark]

If Marathon released in early access instead of full release, would these numbers be viewed more positively?

I don't think so. If this were a smaller indie title the numbers they're doing would be decent enough to justify content to keep the player base going. Small teams can usually execute fast and cheap as long as the quality benchmark isn't too high. AAA teams don't get the benefit of the doubt an indie would with early access though. When you're in the 9 figures for project budget and a major mainstream release, all eyes are on you at launch. You don't get to sit on the sideline and workshop your game with a small community at that scale. They needed to do that shit privately in beta but it seems like they didn't learn any of the correct lessons or they were too arrogant about their designs to listen. Bungie is also in a tough spot where the game seems to be in a financial hole from day 1, early access or not. There's probably some content in the pipeline but Sony needs to make some really hard calls about how much more they want to burn trying to save this or trying to save Destiny.

The reality is something about this game is just not landing with people and that word of mouth is spreading, early access would be no different for them as a AAA dev. New content will have people login again and take a look but it's not going to stop the bleeding we're seeing. S2 will spike player numbers for a week and they'll probably fall off even faster than S1 without significant changes.

I personally believe super hardcore PvP games with tangible loss cannibalize their own player bases naturally. The top level players prey on the lower level players and the cost of losing is too high. Losing gear also feels way worse than finding gear does (Loss Aversion). You just burn the bottom tier players out and they leave. Same thing happened with Trials in Destiny as player participation just dropped week after week. You can point at Tarkov and Arc Raiders success in the genre but Tarkov appeals to hardcore sickos directly and Arc Raiders seems to have a much deeper social aspect and PvE aspect to it that is able to keep non PvPers engaged. Marathon does not have that social element. As I understand it everyone just kills on sight. Also while I think Marathon has a unique and cool art style, it is absolutely the wrong art style for this type of game and audience. The people who are going to be into extraction mechanics are freaky weirdos, the type of people who sit on mil sims, the people still playing Tarkov and Hunt after several years. They are not the halo fanbase and most certainly not into a game that plays like a sci-fi asctetic arena hero shooter.

Marathon has two paths to survival as I see it:

1) Produce content to keep the game alive and tweak the core game to stop the player bleeding. This could mean more PvE encounters, maybe less sweaty mechanics, rewards for being social, etc. This has a chance of stabilizing Marathon but I doubt it would rocket it into the sales success Sony needs it to be at this point.
2) Pivot. Take the gunplay and art assets and get as far away from the extraction shooter genre as possible. This is significantly more risky and would require a financial commitment from Sony but it's honestly the only way I ever see Marathon hitting 100k+ CCU consistently.

Aside from that Bungie also needs to learn to patch shit yesterday. They still move far far too slowly. Just from clips I've seen I don't know how the fuck they've let shotguns, bubble shields, thermal snipers, and knives dominate the meta. It's fucking appaling that any of that shit even made it past closed beta. Bungie also just has a lot of negative Karma as a studio from shit they did to the Destiny community. I've said it before but I don't hate Marathon, I hate Bungie. They need to reckon with that negativity and what they did to Destiny.

 

[Forth]

I don't think so. If this were a smaller indie title the numbers they're doing would be decent enough to justify content to keep the player base going. Small teams can usually execute fast and cheap as long as the quality benchmark isn't too high. AAA teams don't get the benefit of the doubt an indie would with early access though. When you're in the 9 figures for project budget and a major mainstream release, all eyes are on you at launch. You don't get to sit on the sideline and workshop your game with a small community at that scale. They needed to do that shit privately in beta but it seems like they didn't learn any of the correct lessons or they were too arrogant about their designs to listen. Bungie is also in a tough spot where the game seems to be in a financial hole from day 1, early access or not. There's probably some content in the pipeline but Sony needs to make some really hard calls about how much more they want to burn trying to save this or trying to save Destiny.

The reality is something about this game is just not landing with people and that word of mouth is spreading, early access would be no different for them as a AAA dev. New content will have people login again and take a look but it's not going to stop the bleeding we're seeing. S2 will spike player numbers for a week and they'll probably fall off even faster than S1 without significant changes.

I personally believe super hardcore PvP games with tangible loss cannibalize their own player bases naturally. The top level players prey on the lower level players and the cost of losing is too high. Losing gear also feels way worse than finding gear does (Loss Aversion). You just burn the bottom tier players out and they leave. Same thing happened with Trials in Destiny as player participation just dropped week after week. You can point at Tarkov and Arc Raiders success in the genre but Tarkov appeals to hardcore sickos directly and Arc Raiders seems to have a much deeper social aspect and PvE aspect to it that is able to keep non PvPers engaged. Marathon does not have that social element. As I understand it everyone just kills on sight. Also while I think Marathon has a unique and cool art style, it is absolutely the wrong art style for this type of game and audience. The people who are going to be into extraction mechanics are freaky weirdos, the type of people who sit on mil sims, the people still playing Tarkov and Hunt after several years. They are not the halo fanbase and most certainly not into a game that plays like a sci-fi asctetic arena hero shooter.

Marathon has two paths to survival as I see it:

1) Produce content to keep the game alive and tweak the core game to stop the player bleeding. This could mean more PvE encounters, maybe less sweaty mechanics, rewards for being social, etc. This has a chance of stabilizing Marathon but I doubt it would rocket it into the sales success Sony needs it to be at this point.
2) Pivot. Take the gunplay and art assets and get as far away from the extraction shooter genre as possible. This is significantly more risky and would require a financial commitment from Sony but it's honestly the only way I ever see Marathon hitting 100k+ CCU consistently.

Aside from that Bungie also needs to learn to patch shit yesterday. They still move far far too slowly. Just from clips I've seen I don't know how the fuck they've let shotguns, bubble shields, thermal snipers, and knives dominate the meta. It's fucking appaling that any of that shit even made it past closed beta. Bungie also just has a lot of negative Karma as a studio from shit they did to the Destiny community. I've said it before but I don't hate Marathon, I hate Bungie. They need to reckon with that negativity and what they did to Destiny.

Fucking great post!

 

[mdkirby]

Tom Henderson keeps trying





And I guess his Insider Gaming seems to be enjoying it as well (didn't read his article)

To be fair, it can be both a great game, but also far too niche in the gameplay and general appeal to remotely justify its sky high development costs. Thus failure.

There is a reason why point and click adventure games are made on budgets in the thousands of dollars by small indies and not for millions or hundreds of millions by AAA anymore (once upon a time they were big budget Lucas arts games). The market appeal simply isn't there for a big budget point and click to not be a financial catastrophe, the same seems to be the case with how they have built marathon.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The slide continues

 

[Von Hugh]

The slide continues

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It actually almost dropped below 8k. But held on.

The USA peak was only -2%, but the late night Asian region hours dropped -7%. Last few days of huge drops shows that region is bailing faster compared to peak US hours.

 

[Bernardougf]

Im just preparing for the next level of cope and spinning the shills will try to pass after this game is nuked.... "oh but I played 80 hours so I got my money's worth"

 

[Pedro Motta]

This game in the middle of COVID would have been amazing, now it's just a tad too late lol

 

[PeteBull]

This game in the middle of COVID would have been amazing, now it's just a tad too late lol

So in other words u saying game is 6years too late to the market

 

[Pedro Motta]

So in other words u saying game is 6years too late to the market

 

[Mengy]

I personally believe super hardcore PvP games with tangible loss cannibalize their own player bases naturally. The top level players prey on the lower level players and the cost of losing is too high. Losing gear also feels way worse than finding gear does (Loss Aversion). You just burn the bottom tier players out and they leave.

Yep. This is why games like this have small niche playerbases. Most people play games to have fun, and mechanics like this just aren't fun for most gamers.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

What also is killing the game with gamers dropping off is not only the increased wait time for matchmaking, but I totally forgot about it. The game supposed locks gamers into staring at a screen while searching for a match.

So unlike other games where you kill a minute or two dabbling in the menu screens messing with loadouts, checking stats or adjusting perks while the lobby sets and the timer ticks down you cant do any of that. You got to sit there and watch the screen as it matchmakes. If this is true, that is amazingly bad. Never played a MP game that does that.

 

[Topher]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I personally believe super hardcore PvP games with tangible loss cannibalize their own player bases naturally. The top level players prey on the lower level players and the cost of losing is too high. Losing gear also feels way worse than finding gear does (Loss Aversion). You just burn the bottom tier players out and they leave. Same thing happened with Trials in Destiny as player participation just dropped week after week. You can point at Tarkov and Arc Raiders success in the genre but Tarkov appeals to hardcore sickos directly and Arc Raiders seems to have a much deeper social aspect and PvE aspect to it that is able to keep non PvPers engaged. Marathon does not have that social element. As I understand it everyone just kills on sight. Also while I think Marathon has a unique and cool art style, it is absolutely the wrong art style for this type of game and audience. The people who are going to be into extraction mechanics are freaky weirdos, the type of people who sit on mil sims, the people still playing Tarkov and Hunt after several years. They are not the halo fanbase and most certainly not into a game that plays like a sci-fi asctetic arena hero shooter.

Well said.

I mentioned something similar weeks ago. Extraction shooters at its heart goes beyond shooting enemies. It adds looting buildings, dead bodies and extraction in a survival hardcore kind of game loop whereas your typical normie shooter is go in guns a blazing, kill or die and respawn for the 15th time. So what goes with that game mechanic which is supposed to be a desperate or survivalist kind of mood goes well with ARC's, Tarkov's or Hunt's gritty and grimey world.

Who the hell would pair together extraction hardcore shooting with a game that has a vibe that is one part clean Lego bricks and one part Mirrors Edge? Here's the answer: Zero people except people working at Bungie.

It would be like a studio making a WWII game and instead of having a dirty gritty green and brown game with burnt rubble everywhere, the game looks like Splatoon. Not a good match. And if Fallout's setting after nukes destroyed cities was all clean and tidy buildings with no radiation zones it wouldnt make sense either. Or a survival horror game which is actually clean looking in bright daylight with rock and roll music. Not a good fit either.

As for the game loop, it can work but it needs SBMM to keep the good and bad players playing within their own realm. The game doesnt even have it. It has some kind of weird Level Based MM, which I've never heard of before. It would be like COD making a lobby of all Level 50 gamers even though some are great players and some are crappy. Makes no sense. Just because people are the same level doesnt mean they are similar gamers.

But as you mentioned the gameplay loop requires a curb stomping kind of gameplay. Thats the point of getting uber gear. If they implemented a true SBMM system all the good gamers with good gear would get mad they are playing good gamers losing gear as they cant play against noobs. This system would help player retention (in theory) as the weaker gamers stick around. But if they do their shitty MM now, the hardcore gamers love it, but the weaker gamers with bad gear get steamrolled. Googling it, Destiny games have SBMM, but Marathon doesnt.

So it shows they are trapped with a bad game mechanic where you got skewed lobbies in small map combat compared to ARC or Tarkov which have big maps and less combat. So Marathon actually resembles COD and TF shootouts, but with extraction elements. Other extraction shooters arent like that.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Only for another couple of months then we move to the Marathon closed thread

 

[Moridianae]

Still thinking it maintains that 5% drop day to day, StreetsofBeige ? Or are we starting to see a smaller % decline?

 

[Topher]

Only for another couple of months then we move to the Marathon closed thread

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Still thinking it maintains that 5% drop day to day, StreetsofBeige ? Or are we starting to see a smaller % decline?

The game's week over week decline seems to be improving the past week into the high teen %. There's always a big Sun to Mon drop, but the normal weekday US peaks might be more like -3 to -4% now. But that's just a guess from my end.

But the 6 am Asian region low seems to be dropping faster rates lately.

 

[Forth]

What also is killing the game with gamers dropping off is not only the increased wait time for matchmaking, but I totally forgot about it. The game supposed locks gamers into staring at a screen while searching for a match.

So unlike other games where you kill a minute or two dabbling in the menu screens messing with loadouts, checking stats or adjusting perks while the lobby sets and the timer ticks down you cant do any of that. You got to sit there and watch the screen as it matchmakes. If this is true, that is amazingly bad. Never played a MP game that does that.

The other problem is that I don't think that seizure inducing load screen was meant to be watched for longer than ten seconds.
That's how confident Bungie were on this game, it actually shows the hubris of the company.

 

[mdkirby]

Some people are naturally defensive. Not just gaming. Can be anything. Why are some friends and fam (or perhaps any of us on gaf) are ones where if someone calls you fat or bald you laugh it off? But then someone else being called fat or bald and the person goes hyperspastic?

For games, it's one of those things people are defensive because they dont want to be labeled spending money playing a bad or dead game. And for a MP it's worse because when the online base dwindles so does the matchmaking and getting into a lobby. Made worse for any MP games with zero SP mode or no offline bot matches (something even old ass Unreal programmed into their game over 25 years ago). So once youre stuck with it, youre done. At least for SP games or a game with lots of MP modes or bot mode, a gamer can play it at any time.

Again, some gamers care, some dont. I enjoy playing all kinds of weird games I find on Steam for dirt cheap. Lots of obscure card and board games most people have never heard of. If someone calls games like Talisman, Sagrada, Isle of Skye or Roll Player totally gay, go ahead. I dont care. But then some gamers would fight back hard to justify their purchase.

I learnt a fun new word…Hyperspastic

 

[mdkirby]

The other problem is that I don't think that seizure inducing load screen was meant to be watched for longer than ten seconds.
That's how confident Bungie were on this game, it actually shows the hubris of the company.

How did they not AB test all this stuff?

 

[mdkirby]

The game's week over week decline seems to be improving the past week into the high teen %. There's always a big Sun to Mon drop, but the normal weekday US peaks might be more like -3 to -4% now. But that's just a guess from my end.

But the 6 am Asian region low seems to be dropping faster rates lately.

There's tipping points, like as the narrative sets in that it won't stay around people lose confidence and drop, stop spending too, then at some point match making become more difficult, so it becomes a bit of a death spiral.

 

[Bernardougf]

Only for another couple of months then we move to the Marathon closed thread

Nah.. Horizon Woke Grounds is coming real soon... and than there's fairgames .... the entertainment just cannot stop until GTA 6 arrives

 

[Bernardougf]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Nah.. Horizon Woke Grounds is coming real soon... and than there's fairgames .... the entertainment just cannot stop until GTA 6 arrives

 

[BigBeauford]

Nah.. Horizon Woke Grounds is coming real soon... and than there's fairgames .... the entertainment just cannot stop until GTA 6 arrives

And then Fairgames! We have been eating good since Suicide Squad.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Good news to the defenders. This thread will drop like Marathon CCU numbers the moment the Horizon GaaS comes out. Just got to wait until then.

Hope we see you there.

 

[Topher]

Good news to the defenders. This thread will drop like Marathon CCU numbers the moment the Horizon GaaS comes out. Just got to wait until then.

Hope we see you there.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Free to play games are the best. No need to drop $40 for entertainment value.

 

[PeteBull]

Good news to the defenders. This thread will drop like Marathon CCU numbers the moment the Horizon GaaS comes out. Just got to wait until then.

Hope we see you there.

I think guirella studios is smart enough to delay the game at least 2 times, that way they can keep siphoning money from sony, and hermen wont kill it, he will have no choice after game launches/bombs but that could be even year away so lots of cash can still be made by the devs/their monthly salaries before inevitable layoffs happen

Yes, we know game has vague launch date of 2026 but its a given in a year like 2026 with so many bangers coming 600lbs horizon gaas gets pushed to 2027- devs have no incentive to launch it asap coz it means layoffs coming soon after, after all, and under current gaming industry situation such a stable highpaying job they got is pure blessing

BTW, look at that sweet sexy ratio under official playstation yt channel reveal trailer:

22k likes/ 111k dislikes, comments are pure fire

 

[Plague Doctor]

I think guirella studios is smart enough to delay the game at least 2 times, that way they can keep siphoning money from sony, and hermen wont kill it, he will have no choice after game launches/bombs but that could be even year away so lots of cash can still be made by the devs/their monthly salaries before inevitable layoffs happen

Yes, we know game has vague launch date of 2026 but its a given in a year like 2026 with so many bangers coming 600lbs horizon gaas gets pushed to 2027- devs have no incentive to launch it asap coz it means layoffs coming soon after, after all, and under current gaming industry situation such a stable highpaying job they got is pure blessing

BTW, look at that sweet sexy ratio under official playstation yt channel reveal trailer:

22k likes/ 111k dislikes, comments are pure fire

Hulst and the GaaS Initiaitive is truly the Xbox One Reveal Don Mattrick era for Sony. Like what the fuck were they thinking.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You don't get to sit on the sideline and workshop your game with a small community at that scale.

You can if Bungie and Sony said "Marathon won't be ready until 2027" and Sony said, "Let's release it in Early Access but not call it Early Access."

Sony could have easily delayed this another 6 - 12 months, but they wouldn't have gotten the 1.2 million in sales revenue and they wouldn't have access to the highest quality player engagment data, which is better for development.

It's something to consider.

 

[BigBeauford]

I think guirella studios is smart enough to delay the game at least 2 times, that way they can keep siphoning money from sony, and hermen wont kill it, he will have no choice after game launches/bombs but that could be even year away so lots of cash can still be made by the devs/their monthly salaries before inevitable layoffs happen

Yes, we know game has vague launch date of 2026 but its a given in a year like 2026 with so many bangers coming 600lbs horizon gaas gets pushed to 2027- devs have no incentive to launch it asap coz it means layoffs coming soon after, after all, and under current gaming industry situation such a stable highpaying job they got is pure blessing

BTW, look at that sweet sexy ratio under official playstation yt channel reveal trailer:

22k likes/ 111k dislikes, comments are pure fire

Watched a Luke Stephens video on this. Apparently they have been inviting "variety streamers" (aka women) for the playtesting. Actual gamers haven't given them kind feedback so I think they are gonna go for basically the mobile phone playing audience...Who dont play console games. This game could definitely open to sub 50k numbers on steam easily.

 

[falconhoof]

Currently duking it out with The Division 2. Hunt is comfortably winning now.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Currently duking it out with The Division 2. Hunt is comfortably winning now.

We are entering the realm of the real possibility of Destiny 2 (an agreed upon dead game) lapping Marathon.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Yeah I cant remember another safe space OT ... I can be wrong though .... and I think equally people driving by to shit post here not touching the subject should be thread banned too ... seems only fair... but than again is fun watching the meltdowns and tantrums

It's a really good way to gauge the health of a game. A healthy game does not need shills to religiously run defense and make a billion excuses for why it's in an unhealthy state.

 

[rkofan87]

until the game is fixed.

fixed???????????????????????????????////

 

[Pollux]

We are entering the realm of the real possibility of Destiny 2 (an agreed upon dead game) lapping Marathon.

Nothing would make me happier. Realistically, if the free fall continued, and D2 ends up hanging steady and surpassing the daily CCU of Marathon then it could really boost the chances for D3.

 

[Forth]

Currently duking it out with The Division 2. Hunt is comfortably winning now.

Every Marathon player should try Hunt, I've been playing it the last week and it's really, really good.

 

[Darchaos]

Currently duking it out with The Division 2. Hunt is comfortably winning now.

Hunt does what its should be doing, but both Hunt and Division is much better games compared to Marathon.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

We are entering the realm of the real possibility of Destiny 2 (an agreed upon dead game) lapping Marathon.

 

[PeteBull]

Nothing would make me happier. Realistically, if the free fall continued, and D2 ends up hanging steady and surpassing the daily CCU of Marathon then it could really boost the chances for D3.

I think destiny 3 has smaller and smaller chance of being greenlit, it would mean hermen keeping those few hundred high paid but low talent bungie leechers for another 5 maybe even 7 years and not even any certainlity game gonna be succesful and not 2nd marathon aka total flop.

Not impossible but smaller chance than simply hermen shooting from the hip and leaving only 30-50 lowpaid 3rdgrade low experience devs to keep marathon/d2 running.
If we dont get destiny3 reveal trailer this year then likely it will never happen.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

I am so baffled by their lack of care for destiny 3... The fucking series has lasted over 10 years, what exactly does a game have to do to merit a 3rd installment? We get so many sequels, how does a game like that not justify a green light? D3 if they were to shove all their focus into it, would make bucks... We're taking just get the best writer's, get the best pvp team, just go nuts...the game would sell through the roof