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Marathon |OT| A Shell of its Former Self.

Lots of doom and gloom today, man up people.
Nah. This is what I mean that Bungie is not evolving with the times.

I have over 100 hours played and was just told "sorry you don't get to enjoy the most fun part of the game."

It needs an overhaul or two variants. One could be Cryo as is, and another could be a neutered version with less loot etc for those who want to experience the compiler boss. That isn't too much to ask.

Stop alienating your fucking playerbase.

Do you know all the steps and things needed to even have a chance to fight it? Imagine you no lifed then you go in and get a beautiful rubberband for a second to get hit by the one shot orbs.

This is retarded overtuned.

I'm now of the mind that solos really were an afterthought and will never matter.
 
Nah. This is what I mean that Bungie is not evolving with the times.

I have over 100 hours played and was just told "sorry you don't get to enjoy the most fun part of the game."

It needs an overhaul or two variants. One could be Cryo as is, and another could be a neutered version with less loot etc for those who want to experience the compiler boss. That isn't too much to ask.

Stop alienating your fucking playerbase.

Do you know all the steps and things needed to even have a chance to fight it? Imagine you no lifed then you go in and get a beautiful rubberband for a second to get hit by the one shot orbs.

This is retarded overtuned.

I'm now of the mind that solos really were an afterthought and will never matter.
Well they dropped 6 man raids to 3 more or less. Thats a good start. The game has been out for a couple weeks. Let's see how it evolves, Bungie seems to have taken a large amount of lessons learned from destiny to heart.
 
Nah. This is what I mean that Bungie is not evolving with the times.

I have over 100 hours played and was just told "sorry you don't get to enjoy the most fun part of the game."

It needs an overhaul or two variants. One could be Cryo as is, and another could be a neutered version with less loot etc for those who want to experience the compiler boss. That isn't too much to ask.

Stop alienating your fucking playerbase.

Do you know all the steps and things needed to even have a chance to fight it? Imagine you no lifed then you go in and get a beautiful rubberband for a second to get hit by the one shot orbs.

This is retarded overtuned.

I'm now of the mind that solos really were an afterthought and will never matter.
Marathon has only been out for a little more than 400 hours and you've played a quarter of them. Why not find a team if you're playing it almost as much as a job?
 
Marathon has only been out for a little more than 400 hours and you've played a quarter of them. Why not find a team if you're playing it almost as much as a job?
I have one duo buddy from time to time. Trio we randomly get is usually a paint eater.

I really struggle and do not like playing outside of people I know in real life. And I couldn't convince anyone else to buy this even a hardcore Tarkov fan.
 
I have one duo buddy from time to time. Trio we randomly get is usually a paint eater.

I really struggle and do not like playing outside of people I know in real life. And I couldn't convince anyone else to buy this even a hardcore Tarkov fan.
You don't have to get married to anyone. Just get on the mic and co ordinate.
 
I have one duo buddy from time to time. Trio we randomly get is usually a paint eater.

I really struggle and do not like playing outside of people I know in real life. And I couldn't convince anyone else to buy this even a hardcore Tarkov fan.

Your situation is similar to only ever shooting free throws and refusing to play pickup then being upset that you're never going to be able to run the court at lunchtime. I would try to find people to play with here or on communities where you feel comfortable. You obviously have the time to master mechanics. Spend a little bit developing the teamwork side.
 
I have never been insta killed in this game.
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I haven't unless you are talking about someone getting the drop on you and killing you from behind or something.
That's what I mean.

You go from low excitement / low tension to instant deletion around 10% of the time.

You can spend 10 - 15 minutes of "work" in Marathon (looting, running, equipping gear, messing with your vault etc) to instant deletion a non meaningless percentage of the time.
 
That's what I mean.

You go from low excitement / low tension to instant deletion around 10% of the time.

You can spend 10 - 15 minutes of "work" in Marathon (looting, running, equipping gear, messing with your vault etc) to instant deletion a non meaningless percentage of the time.
What do you expect people to do when they get the drop on you? Use harsh language?
 
What do you expect people to do when they get the drop on you? Use harsh language?
Ya. That's the point in shooters.

I think some people expect shooters to always give you a chance. Like if you play games the characters have lots of life like Halo or Gears, someone can get a good shot at you riddling you with bullets. But if youre fast enough, you can always hover jump away or wall bounce out of the way with half your life left. And then turn the tide and counter attack and actually end up winning the gunfight.
 
For you guys above talking about sweaty games and cryo, it's really simple.

The game is just a harder core extraction game. That's how it's designed, whereas ARC is supposed to be much gentler and has bigger maps so it's less about PvP or AI bot gunfights.

And cryo is meant for gamers that love challenge, grinding and being an extraction game is willing to gamble it to achieve.

It's just that Bungie couldnt promote that because they knew it'd turn off gamers if they told the world months ago to wait for it (whether it wasnt ready or was aways planned as an end of March content drop doesnt matter) it is a hardcore grind map requiring min stats, trios and weekends only.

If they told everyone, sales would sink even worse than now. Expectations for everyone was it was some kind of challenging end game map, but nobody thought it would have these parameters.

It's just that for people who like extraction shooters (already a harder core mode than traditional MP modes) it's a matter of whether you are a casual extraction gamer, or you are a gamer who enjoys challenge and going all out. Most people arent like that. Play COD and most people play TDM or one of the easy to understand mainstream objective modes. Hardly anyone plays Gun Game, or S&D or hardcore mode where you get half the life and no mini map.

Cryo map is for the gamers who got the time, willing to grind and want to play with the best gamers who can do it. Similar to gamers who want to play with the best who can hack it (like enjoying SBMM playing in matches with top ranked gamers). It's a mode not meant for loners (solo lone wolf players), or players barely qualifying and getting smoked the one time every month they can join. And that assumes the guy even has time to do it on weekends.

The mode is meant for core gamers who got the time, skill, and mentality to do it. Some do, some dont. When I play shooters, I know I dont. When used to play COD a lot I was actually a really good player racking up k/d and wins, but I didnt care one bit playing Gun Game, hardcore mode or any obscure stuff. I just want to join the masses and play some normal games in the popular modes. The key difference is that when Activision promotes another 5 maps are coming soon, the game is already filled with tons of content. So adding more maps is bonus. Also, most of these maps get tossed into the rotation no strings attached. Although there might be some that are walled off for certain modes, but most are just more normal maps for everyone to join. It's not a make or break if the 5 maps come and go, and Activision hell no isnt going to tell websites dont do a review until the new map pack comes.

The difference is COD going from let's say 12 maps to 17 isnt a big deal. Heck, I'd even argue a lot of the time the extra maps suck vs the default maps. But Marathon going from 3 to 4 is huge. BUT, if a gamer cant or hates cryo, that gamer is really stuck back at 3. For the core gamer doing cryo every week, it's a boost to 4 maps. But for many it's really just the same 3.

The problem Bungie had was they couldnt communicate it because sales werent great. So they hooked in the gamers interested in Marathon hoping all of you expected cryo map to be a cool 4th map that could be accessible by everyone at any time. But it's not. Everyone knew it was an challenging end game map as per info last year, but not with these kinds of limitations. It'd be like a racing game promoting more challenging tracks coming end of month, but turns out it could only be played on weekends for gamers who bought S-class sportscars. Or an RPG who promoted new content soon before it launched, but turns out it's only for level 50 characters and all characters need weapons minimum +2. It's too bad they werent clear on the direction.
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What do you expect people to do when they get the drop on you? Use harsh language?
It's not about players. It's about game design.

Marathon is a game where losing is often a miserable, unsatisfying experience. There is often no story to be had, no "dance", no tension in Marathon...just instant deletion.

ARC Raiders was designed in a way that made losing frequently exhilarating. It would often leave you thinking "If only had had done X, Y, or Z instead..." Instant deletion is not satisfying.
 
I think some people expect shooters to always give you a chance.
There's two ways to play it.

ARC Raiders clearly was designed to turn engagments into Wolf vs Rabbit. Embark clearly didn't want one shot kills in that game.

However, Escape from Tarkov does do one shot kills. It thrives because it marries tension to the experience. Players are always aware of how, at any moment, they're run could be ended from across the map.

Marathons 3 player squad mode lives in the unsatisfying middle area. There's very little tension in the main mode.
 
It's not about players. It's about game design.

Marathon is a game where losing is often a miserable, unsatisfying experience. There is often no story to be had, no "dance", no tension in Marathon...just instant deletion.

ARC Raiders was designed in a way that made losing frequently exhilarating. It would often leave you thinking "If only had had done X, Y, or Z instead..." Instant deletion is not satisfying.
Hard disagree with this. I've had some epic team battles.
 
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Hard disagree with this. I've had some epic team battles.
I've definitely had epic battles too, that's why I said "around 10% of the time".

I fear / predict my "epic team battle" percentage will reduce the more low skill players quit the game, and the more high skill players have access to one shot snipers etc...
 
There's two ways to play it.

ARC Raiders clearly was designed to turn engagments into Wolf vs Rabbit. Embark clearly didn't want one shot kills in that game.

However, Escape from Tarkov does do one shot kills. It thrives because it marries tension to the experience. Players are always aware of how, at any moment, they're run could be ended from across the map.

Marathons 3 player squad mode lives in the unsatisfying middle area. There's very little tension in the main mode.
Every single death I had in care bear Raiders was from someone camping in a corner and using one of the OP weapons to instakill.
 
Every single death I had in care bear Raiders was from someone camping in a corner and using one of the OP weapons to instakill.
It may have evolved in that direction since I last played it, but I don't really think it's debatable that Embark doesn't want "instant deletion" fights in nearly the same way Bungie does with Marathon.

You only need to look at how powerful sniper rifles are in each game to see the vast difference in philosophy.
 
Marathons 3 player squad mode lives in the unsatisfying middle area. There's very little tension in the main mode.
Maybe some of that has to do with the atmosphere.

Just watching videos, it's definitely more creepy and tension filled getting shot and killed in ARC or Tarkov on aeesthetics alone. ARC and Tarkov have a realistic, dark corridor, and have trashy rusty building look. For Tarkov, even the outdoors look cloudy and gloomy. Marathon has a colour pallette close to Splatoon and Mirrors Edge.
 
It may have evolved in that direction since I last played it, but I don't really think it's debatable that Embark doesn't want "instant deletion" fights in nearly the same way Bungie does with Marathon.

You only need to look at how powerful sniper rifles are in each game to see the vast difference in philosophy.
It doesn't matter what they intended, thats what's happening.
 
Maybe some of that has to do with the atmosphere.

Just watching videos, it's definitely more creepy and tension filled getting shot and killed in ARC or Tarkov on aeesthetics alone. ARC and Tarkov have a realistic, dark corridor, and have trashy rusty building look. For Tarkov, even the outdoors look cloudy and gloomy. Marathon has a colour pallette close to Splatoon and Mirrors Edge.
I don't think it has to do with aesthetics, although that may play a small part.

It has to do with what your brain is thinking about before the engagement.

Marathon doesn't tell the player "Hey, there's danger nearby. You better creep around slowly and pay attention if you want to live" very often.

When you play Marathon, a chunk of your experiences are like this...



ARC Raiders and Tarkov do this much better...

 
I don't think it has to do with aesthetics, although that may play a small part.

It has to do with what your brain is thinking about before the engagement.

Marathon doesn't tell the player "Hey, there's danger nearby. You better creep around slowly and pay attention if you want to live" very often.

When you play Marathon, a chunk of your experiences are like this...



ARC Raiders and Tarkov do this much better...


What if it's something like this clip? If a gamer has awareness, you can see it coming most of the time and rarely be surprised. When I played COD games a lot, I hardly ever got surprised or knifed/shot in the back. Only time I really got killed out of nowhere was gunplay and a good sniper one shotted me from way out. Something like that I didnt see coming. Most of my deaths are simply gunfights mano on mano which I lost.

 
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What if it's something like this clip? If a gamer has awareness, you can see it coming most of the time and rarely be surprised. When I played COD games a lot, I hardly ever got surprised or knifed/shot in the back. Only time I really got killed out of nowhere was gunplay and a good sniper one shotted me from way out. Something like that I didnt see coming.


IF MY AUNT HAD BALLS SHE'D BE MY UNCLE!!

It's not about any one players personal experience or ability to read the environment.

It's how well the game communicates tension / excitement to all its players.

If 8% of Marathon players are saying "No, the game has tension, you just don't know how to read it", that may be valid for them but it's still a failure of game design for the other 92% of the player base.

I'd argue Resident Evil and Escape from Tarkov succeed because both games effectively communicate tension to the majority of their players.
 
I'm very skeptical that ARC Raiders has "instant deletion, low tension" moments at exactly the same rate as Marathon.
It has next to no tension at all. Its a poor single player game with boring quests and people that say hello to you every now and then.

Occasionally one of then will shoot you in the back.
 
no solo queue for cryo and ranked as a free for all enjoyer has not been great for me.
thats gonna be less time spent ingame than expected. I was going to grind that ranked mode.
 
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I'm very skeptical that ARC Raiders has "instant deletion, low tension" moments at exactly the same rate as Marathon.
ARC Don't shoot, shoots. First shot generally wins.

At least in marathon, you don't expect them to be friendly. I haven't been killed yet without knowing it was coming in some form as far as I recall or a reason for it at least. Audio queues you in for close quarters and as long as you aren't running around like a mad mad in the open you shouldn't be just randomly dropped.
 
ARC Don't shoot, shoots. First shot generally wins.

At least in marathon, you don't expect them to be friendly. I haven't been killed yet without knowing it was coming in some form as far as I recall or a reason for it at least. Audio queues you in for close quarters and as long as you aren't running around like a mad mad in the open you shouldn't be just randomly dropped.
Marathon the outplays and shit happen when it's not a corridor or not into an assassin lol.

Blue shield, using utility, and more leads to some fantastic back and forth tight gun battles. This all goes out the window when an assassin has a shotgun and his ult or a bubble shield.
 
"First shot generally wins" is like saying there's salt in most chocolate chip cookie recipes.

It ignores the distinction of how important amount is.

"ARC Don't shoot, shoots." Which is how most pvps start in ARC.

Marathon the outplays and shit happen when it's not a corridor or not into an assassin lol.

Blue shield, using utility, and more leads to some fantastic back and forth tight gun battles. This all goes out the window when an assassin has a shotgun and his ult or a bubble shield.

Yeah, well i am sure there will be nerfs, etc with the rebalance. For example I see assassin cloak being nerfed big time in duration.
 

This gives me hope. As a solo first player just a dumbed down cryo without the insane loot but a means to fight a compiler would be great to appease someone like myself.

—-

Ranked is good but people's mindsets in game are all over the place. Had clearly a duo on a private chat not listening to anything I had to say, and I told them don't worry I'll revive you both and we will still have 9k easy just be patient.

They immediately leave.

Within 3 minutes everyone had fought at their bodies, and then went on to exfil. On my own I could carry over 3k of loot but 9k is the goal. If they just waited we would've been good to go to hit 9k and leave with 15+ minutes to go. :/
 
Anyone on PS having issues logging in to Marathon. Other games work fine. Worked earluer, hasnt been able to log in for 2 hours and says PSN network issue lol
 
In solos even?
I played 95% shoot on sight solos in ARC Raiders - very little squads.

Every once in a while I'd want to knock out a bunch of quests and would cheese my way into friendly lobbies but I personally never felt like ARC was "too friendly".

Haven't played ARC for 6+ weeks now.
 
I like that I now have more reasons to never bring blues and purples to the other maps, save them for Cryo and Ranked and (potentially) future endgame content and get all the sweet loot by just going with greens killing everyone on the other maps while doing contracts
 
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I fear / predict my "epic team battle" percentage will reduce the more low skill players quit the game, and the more high skill players have access to one shot snipers etc...
I actually agree with what you've been saying. Maybe it's because I'm from Australia where the player base isn't huge already, but the last few days the game has been super frustrating and honestly a miserable experience. The first week my squad would extract most of the time, maybe 80-90%? Gearing up, ticking of contracts both story and generic, having a good time. The second week it dropped to probably 50% which we did expect getting further into the game with people being more geared but the last two days I reckon it's been as low as 20%. We've had streaks of 3-5 runs where within 5 minutes we're back in the lobby. We don't run around hosing bots, we use headphones and communicate, we play smart but there is always a squad that are geared to the teeth that like to sit back and shoot you with snipers, camp rooftops, wait for extracts to be called so they can pick you off as you try to extract. Even trying to complete simple generic contracts like exfil with 18 valuables takes more games than it should. I think it comes down to the maps being too small and not well designed. I spoke about this earlier with the spawns, sometimes you will meet another team within 60 seconds which is far too quick IMO. I also think the "hero shooter" style abilities on the shells can be one sided depending on your squad make up.
I'm very skeptical that ARC Raiders has "instant deletion, low tension" moments at exactly the same rate as Marathon.
I played some Arc with two mates yesterday after having not play for a week and I think out of about 7-8 raids we didn't all get out only once. This was even in Stella Montis full of PvP. The game does allow you to reposition and make a come back. Not saying you can't do it in Marathon, we have done it before. But doing it lately has been less and less successful and certainly a lot less fun. Usually it is the dead people watching the third hide somewhere for 5-10 minutes waiting for the other squad to move on so we can be revived. On the topic of being shot in the back from a dark corner or someone camping your extract, this is nowhere near as prevalent as it was early on in Arc. Extracting is probably the easiest thing to do in Arc now, whereas it's the opposite in Marathon I feel.

I've been having this discussion with players I play Marathon with, and players I play Arc with that don't play Marathon. Both games have good things about them and both have bad things about them. I think the thing I can see the most is that the maps in Marathon are far too restrictive. The maps look great, have great POIs with tunnels and shit connecting them that is fine but there is nothing else outside of that. At least in Arc if you want to chill out and run around solo collecting basic materials you can do so by scouting the outside of the map, ignore the POIs and get out with a hatch key or something. It's quite easy to stay out of sight, and you don't have to worry about a Recon popping an AoE wallhax seeing you hiding under those stairs or on that rooftop waiting for your extract to arrive. It feels like you can still make progress. Marathon only has 1 or 2 little basic rooms on the outskirts which generally have nothing of value. Not only that you then have to call in a great beam of light that attracts everyone under the sun.

Will keep plodding along but it's getting harder that's for sure. Keen to see what feedback they take on board regarding Cryo and Ranked. Would hate to see the game slide even more because of some bad decisions.
 
Every single death I had in care bear Raiders was from someone camping in a corner and using one of the OP weapons to instakill.
When did you play it last? I have 550 hours in Arc and haven't really seen this in a long time. Plus they've nerfed a lot of the guns to make fights more drawn out, etc.
 
Been a few weeks now. I found it to a boring slog tbh.
I've certainly played a lot less this expedition after having done the two previous ones. I still enjoy the game but it needs some engaging endgame activities, trials suck. That's one of the main draws for Marathon for me, having something to strive towards but I didn't realise it was going to be as much of a slog. I think what makes it worse is having a time limit on it, not time limit meaning only weekends for Cryo, but time limit being the end of season mandatory wipe. If I don't get to see cryo this time around it's probably going to be even more of a slog next time with less players, having to start from scratch, etc.

Ranked is good but people's mindsets in game are all over the place. Had clearly a duo on a private chat not listening to anything I had to say, and I told them don't worry I'll revive you both and we will still have 9k easy just be patient.
The big issue is some people have voice chat turned off. How are you ever going to be able to coordinate if they don't even have it turned on? I think they need to have voice chat permanently enabled but if someone is a retard on comms you just mute that specific player. It's really silly being able to turn it all off, proximity chat too.
 
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