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Digital Foundry - How RE Requiem’s Path Tracing amplifies the horror
The_hunter
Member
Shifty1897
Member
I have bad news for you, RIP.
Bojji
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I disagree. The standard non-RT mode lighting system looks like shit. Even RT high looks bad.
I'm sorry, but when did Capcom forget how to do volumetric lighting? What the fuck is this on the Pro (and probably on any non-PT PC)?
This is Metro Redux from 2014.
And they can't do proper self shadows with a PS5 when Ryse on Xbox One could do this?
Whereas on a high-end PC running high RT, we get this abomination.
Non-PT GI that looks like shit.
Again, Metro Redux from 12 years ago.
This is a classic case of downgrading traditional techniques to prop up RT and expensive-ass hardware. Even high RT looks bad and don't even get me started on these mirrors lmao. PT looks good, but there's no excuse for raster to look this bad, especially in a horror game when they're all about the mood, lighting, and shadows. People who are also even passively familiar with me know I'm not the type to go all hyperbolic with "old games looked better, what happened" bullshit, but this is just bad.
viveks86
Member
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Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
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Memati187
Member
I can relate, happens almost everytime I see myself in the mirror in the morning.
TerribleAtThisGame
Banned
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Path tracing does look beautiful, however, in MOST PLACES it doesn't completely transform the game for me. It's nice to have that little bit of extra detail, but not at the performance cost of path tracing.
Also... correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't they bake all the path traced lighting into the environment if it's completely static? Obviously stuff like those breakable boxes will stick out, but everything else would look pretty dang nice.
Also... correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't they bake all the path traced lighting into the environment if it's completely static? Obviously stuff like those breakable boxes will stick out, but everything else would look pretty dang nice.
Bojji
Member
In theory they could but that would mean having completely static lighting (and it would take time).
Dust-by-Monday
Member
It's too bad they can't bake the lighting as the game loads. I wonder how long that would take.
Bojji
Member
They are baking lighting in games using offline path tracing.
Resident evil 9 looks massively better with path tracing vs. RT even. So I don't agree with your previous post. And it runs surprisingly well on mid range Nvidia GPUs.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
What do you mean as the game loads? The lighting is already baked and stored into lightmaps that are in the game files. The tradeoff is that they're static and can take up a lot of storage quickly, but for a game with smaller constrained environment like RE, this is preferable. If it were a huge open world with dynamic time of day and seasons like AC Shadows, then yeah, painstakingly baking the lights would take ages and occupy up a ton of space.
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Dust-by-Monday
Member
You mean like what they did with AC:Unity?
Vick
Member
Path Tracing is just the Holy Grail of real time graphics.. there's just nothing to add. And was beatifully implemented here.
Nvidia advancements and contributions to this industry can't and shouldn't be denied.
This is especially noticeable in cutscenes and some other minor instances, the RT version is clearly prioritized by Capcom team, the "official version" we could say, whereas the brute force, raw and crude PT version of those same cutscenes can sometimes actually appear worse, and show some occasional shadow issues completely absent in RT/raster.
I mean cutscenes on PS5 Pro look legitimately pre-rendered.
But yes, in gameplay Path Tracing is just sublime. Like, stuff from the future. It can be subtle, but if you know where to look it's just worth every penny.
Nvidia advancements and contributions to this industry can't and shouldn't be denied.
Well, Cerny mentioned and talked about Path Tracing directly in more than one occasion. So, there is a chance.
I actually disagree. I think Nvidia was quite a bit directly responsible for what we see in Requiem.
This is especially noticeable in cutscenes and some other minor instances, the RT version is clearly prioritized by Capcom team, the "official version" we could say, whereas the brute force, raw and crude PT version of those same cutscenes can sometimes actually appear worse, and show some occasional shadow issues completely absent in RT/raster.
I mean cutscenes on PS5 Pro look legitimately pre-rendered.
But yes, in gameplay Path Tracing is just sublime. Like, stuff from the future. It can be subtle, but if you know where to look it's just worth every penny.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yes, which is one reason this game has better lighting than every subsequent game up until Shadows. Unity has no dynamic time of day and only a few instances that change depending on where you are in the game, so it's very predictable. The others have much larger maps and fully dynamic time of day. From a gameplay perspective, it's good, but from a visual one, it's a step back.
Kokoloko85
Member
Have a look at what MLid said about it. Seems decent
Cumulus
Member
Oh there actually is a really good excuse. Making raster look good is hard. It costs a lot of time and thus money, so why bother if everyone will be salivating over the high end solution anyway which also happens to be very comfortable WYSIWYG during development.
Judging by the sales numbers so far that bet worked out for them
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
LOL. Some of those modern pics look like something from a decade ago. Even Ryse looks better than some of those pics.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I know PT looks good. My point is that even RT at times looks really bad. For instance, the screenshot I posted has literally missing volumetric lighting. What's up with that?
Bojji
Member
I tested it few minutes ago and high RT is legit missing all volumetric lighting from police station. So it's not just PS5 pro.
I don't agree with you about self shadows in faces in older games, most of the time they looked like crap thanks to low resolution of shadow maps. But good shadows should be available with standard RT of course.
I still have PTSD from Mass Effect face shadows...
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
But that's what I'm saying. The self shadows in RT High look similar to what we had back in 2013. I'm not saying they look amazing in the old games, I'm saying they should look A LOT better in the game with RT that came out 12-13 years later.
Jinzo Prime
Member
Companies don't want to spend time properly baking lighting anymore. It's clear to me that the non-pt lighting in RE 9 could have been better if they wanted to take the time to do it.I disagree. The standard non-RT mode lighting system looks like shit. Even RT high looks bad.
I'm sorry, but when did Capcom forget how to do volumetric lighting? What the fuck is this on the Pro (and probably on any non-PT PC)?
This is Metro Redux from 2014.
And they can't do proper self shadows with a PS5 when Ryse on Xbox One could do this?
Whereas on a high-end PC running high RT, we get this abomination.
Non-PT GI that looks like shit.
Again, Metro Redux from 12 years ago.
This is a classic case of downgrading traditional techniques to prop up RT and expensive-ass hardware. Even high RT looks bad and don't even get me started on these mirrors lmao. PT looks good, but there's no excuse for raster to look this bad, especially in a horror game when they're all about the mood, lighting, and shadows. People who are also even passively familiar with me know I'm not the type to go all hyperbolic with "old games looked better, what happened" bullshit, but this is just bad.
RedC
Member
KuraiShidosha
Member
There are definitely certain things missing outside of PT that have no right to be missing. The RPD is the worst offender I found where there are these lights and shadows coming through the ceiling that are NOT from path tracing but just projector lights. Aka rasterized imposters the kinds you'd get over 20 years ago in Unreal Engine 2 titles. There's no reason for those to be missing from RT on or off.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
nkarafo
Member
I still don't understand the difference between Ray and Path Tracing and why Ray Tracing couldn't have the same results. Aren't those missing shadows in other games covered by Ray Tracing? Why does RE9 need the Path variant?
For so many years i was told Ray Tracing can reach this level of realism and everyone was struggling to use it because of performance penalties and now all of a sudden it got unceremoniously obsolete by an even more demanding method?
For so many years i was told Ray Tracing can reach this level of realism and everyone was struggling to use it because of performance penalties and now all of a sudden it got unceremoniously obsolete by an even more demanding method?
DeaconOfTheDank
Member
Any confirmation if ray reconstruction is running alongside DLSS 4.5 presets M & L? Or does enabling it force preset D like we had with Cyberpunk?
Dust-by-Monday
Member
Ah yes, my bad. I forgot about the part of Resident Evil Requiem that had a dynamic time of day.
kevboard
Member
Vick
Member
Honestly, I believe those parts in the RPD could be "extras" made in collaboration with Nvidia, that simply weren't considered for the main game. I say this because there's actual spots like that in the RPD in the regular game as well, just not in those particular places.
And in the library for instance, PT has direct sun rays in some spots, which unless they changed the sun placement couldn't physically happen in the normal version:
When Capcom wanted that area to have that kind of look, they put the effort. Like the Orphanage front view. Or later on, Ark entrance which depicts similar volumetrics.
However, that spot with the stairs you posted in the #6 post, that should actually look like it does in the Path Traced version, as there is sun rays that should reach the spot. Just Capcom probably didn't bother to make it look good because of how fast you're supposed to move in that spot, given you're being chased. The kind of extras you get for free with real lighting.. which is unbelieavably cool.
Jesb
Member
Biggest wtf moment is that mirror reflections are non existent with no path or ray tracing. Even on ray tracing it isn't great. Why are they incapable of doing mirror reflections without this. Seems incredibly lazy.
DryvBy
Member
That first Metro screen looks horrific. Is a hike going off behind the guy in the doorway? Why is everything so bright?I disagree. The standard non-RT mode lighting system looks like shit. Even RT high looks bad.
I'm sorry, but when did Capcom forget how to do volumetric lighting? What the fuck is this on the Pro (and probably on any non-PT PC)?
This is Metro Redux from 2014.
And they can't do proper self shadows with a PS5 when Ryse on Xbox One could do this?
Whereas on a high-end PC running high RT, we get this abomination.
Non-PT GI that looks like shit.
Again, Metro Redux from 12 years ago.
This is a classic case of downgrading traditional techniques to prop up RT and expensive-ass hardware. Even high RT looks bad and don't even get me started on these mirrors lmao. PT looks good, but there's no excuse for raster to look this bad, especially in a horror game when they're all about the mood, lighting, and shadows. People who are also even passively familiar with me know I'm not the type to go all hyperbolic with "old games looked better, what happened" bullshit, but this is just bad.
viveks86
Member
Planar reflection is a computationally expensive "hack" and very sparingly used in most games. Given how much they are pushing base consoles already (to the extent that they couldn't include any RT whatsoever) may be they just didn't have the headroom anymore. Unless looking at the mirror has some narrative or gameplay purpose, it's a trade off that devs have been making for ages. It seems jarring now only because RT and PT are getting it almost for free from a dev standpoint. Otherwise, when we see a broken or unreflective mirror in any game, we would shrug and walk right past it.
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DavidGzz
Member
On the Pro Grace looks like a smeared watercolor portrait lol
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KaiserBecks
Member
Don't do it! Life can be so beautiful (especially with Path Tracing hehe).
Jesb
Member
I'm surprised they didn't just have the mirror broken after seeing what it looks like and saying fk it.
nkarafo
Member
We had good looking self shadows in games for decades now. But somehow, nowadays not even Ray Tracing can't do that and you need Path Tracing?
Yeah that's bullshit. It's the same thing with mirrors. Games had working mirrors since what, 1996? Even the original Duke Nukem 3D had working mirrors. Were they fake? Sure but the result was convincing. Silent Hill Shattered Memories on the freaking Wii had some of the best looking mirrors in any game. And in that game, even the snowflake particles were casting shadows. On the Wii.
You never needed Ray or Path tracing for all these effects because you could easily fake them.
But now it seems like developers are choosing to go with incredibly demanding methods to do similar effects with very little visual improvement over faking them only because it's more realistic in the way they work in the background. But why care how it works in the background when that means it's 100x more demanding?
Sorry, maybe i'm too old. Because i can't accept this game's self shadows and mirror reflections looking so bad with freaking Ray Tracing enabled at "high".
Yeah that's bullshit. It's the same thing with mirrors. Games had working mirrors since what, 1996? Even the original Duke Nukem 3D had working mirrors. Were they fake? Sure but the result was convincing. Silent Hill Shattered Memories on the freaking Wii had some of the best looking mirrors in any game. And in that game, even the snowflake particles were casting shadows. On the Wii.
You never needed Ray or Path tracing for all these effects because you could easily fake them.
But now it seems like developers are choosing to go with incredibly demanding methods to do similar effects with very little visual improvement over faking them only because it's more realistic in the way they work in the background. But why care how it works in the background when that means it's 100x more demanding?
Sorry, maybe i'm too old. Because i can't accept this game's self shadows and mirror reflections looking so bad with freaking Ray Tracing enabled at "high".
Von Hugh
Member
Not that simple. I can increase the amount of samples and bounces of RTGI, RT reflections, and RTAO in a game engine, but that won't make it path tracing.
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calistan
Member
It's like how, many years ago, the MAME developers decided to break a lot of working games because they were using tricks or shortcuts rather than accurate emulation.
So there was a point where 'upgrading' to a version of MAME with 'better' emulation meant that games that had been playable for years could no longer be launched.
A big downgrade in the name of pursuing a method that's technically superior but will not be ready for a long time.
Signalis
Member
Because most of them don't actually play games or play games to have fun. They'd rather complain about dumb shit like RT and PT instead of just experiencing the joy of gaming
I didn't think people that obsessed about graphics.
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LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Machine learning let's take bets on polymarket. Although whoever wants to kill themselves just make sure it isn't on the release date of an important game or some shit like that
Rubim
Member
I dont understand how someone that have internet access can say something like:
"Well, Duke Nukem had mirrors, why we dont have it anymore?"
But if you want an easy explanation: What you see in the game is not something rendered exactly like you see it, there's usually render passes, one for shadow depth, G buffer, lighting, boom, tone mapping and if you add a mirror, well, you have now double the workload. It's an issue with viewport, its easier to render a giant room than render a small one with 2 view ports.
Ray tracing is actually faster in this scenario.
Parallax Cubemaps would be a good compromise, but i guess no time to fix small issues what would come with it. (Enemies on the ground, doors opened, stuff not existing anymore on the mirrors would be an issue)
But look at this:
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