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Project Helix "might be Microsoft's last attempt to make their hardware business work," analyst suggests: "Nobody believes another if this fails."

Will Project Helix be the last Xbox?

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LectureMaster

LectureMaster

Or is it just one of Adam's balls in my throat?
www.gamesradar.com

Project Helix "might be Microsoft's last attempt to make their hardware business work," analyst suggests: "There is nobody in this industry who believes there will be another Xbox if this next machine fails"

"Microsoft has been walking on thin ice for a long time now"
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com
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It's been a wild few weeks for Xbox fans, from Phil Spencer's departure after almost 40 years to yesterday's reveal of the mysterious Project Helix – but hopefully, it's the mark of a bright future for Microsoft's gaming division.

If it's not, and Project Helix fails, there might not be any future Xbox hardware at all anymore – or so analyst Dr. Serkan Toto, CEO and founder of Japanese game industry consultancy Kantan Games, thinks.

Speaking with GamesRadar+ following the announcement of Project Helix, he first explains what he believes Microsoft's end goal is. "This might be Microsoft's last attempt to make their hardware business work," says Toto.

"I believe there is nobody in this industry who believes there will be another Xbox if this next machine fails." The success of Project Helix is, then, crucial to the future of Xbox in its entirety, according to Toto.

A good launch is no easy feat, either, considering competition like the upcoming Steam Machine – Valve's own answer to the whole console versus PC debate, a unique blend of both… something Xbox will need to outperform.

"Project Helix must absolutely give Xbox fans a reason to buy it over the Steam Machine, and better and broader native support of Xbox games is the only way," as Toto puts it.

"With its 'Everything is an Xbox' strategy, Microsoft has been walking on thin ice for a long time now, so the onus is now on them to come up with a fresh approach to selling its hardware." I suppose it makes sense – the market is admittedly brutal.


Toto then comments on Asha Sharma, the new CEO of Xbox – a lead that has no background in games, but rather AI.

"My expectation is that Sharma will scrap said strategy rather sooner than later and try to muscle her way back into the hardware business one more time," Toto states. He also says of the Xbox boss, "I believe she is right by hinting Xbox must be rebuilt from the ground up." That's one heck of a hurdle to overcome, if you ask me.

Only time will tell how Xbox Project Helix unfolds – it is apparently "the return of Xbox," after all. Regardless of what happens, though, it's hard to argue that it won't be paramount to the overall future of Microsoft's gaming brand.
 
This may be a good "value" for me considering PC prices today and if they never come down, I will definitely be interest if it's a good-range gaming PC with an Xbox included if it's in the $1,300 price range.
 
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Doesn't look like a do or die situation to me.

More like a comfortable position, they don't care how much it sells.

If it were a do or die situation we would be seeing subsidy, exclusives etc.
 
I don't believe it. I still think they would want a presence till cloud gaming is the only thing left.

They will manufacture less hardware, extremes on both expensive and economical model, but won't quit.

I'm not gonna buy it but some one will.
 
Little by little, with bits of info here and there, what this analyst is saying looks more and more like the direction things are heading.

Soon Xbox might basically be just an app on Windows, because from what Helix seems to be, it won't come out as something truly competitive, at best it'll compete with some entry-level devices from Alienware and Razer.
 
I'm undecided. MS can be oddly persistent in certain ways and, imo, there are times where it would be better for them to rethink things. A good example is letting an incompetent studio handle their flagship franchise (Halo) even though it should be clear by now that there's a problem. If this device results in losses for them, it would probably be better to change direction but I can't say for sure that they would. I suppose that would be a good thing, though, for people who like their hardware and related offerings.
 
vaibhavpisal said:
Doesn't look like a do or die situation to me.

More like a comfortable position, they don't care how much it sells.

If it were a do or die situation we would be seeing subsidy, exclusives etc.
Click to expand...
It's do or die for their hardware 100%. Do they care if it fails though? Not really. MS will obviously survive.
 
MisterXDTV said:
Last Xbox was Series X

This is a PC with an Xbox sticker for retrogaming
Click to expand...
Tom Warren: *Rages like a maniacal ex who can't move on*

In all seriousness, yeah, Xbox hardware is currently dead. They're pulling Dreamcast numbers in their strongest territory and are actively being removed from major retailers*, globally.

The Nextbox -- an expensive hybrid PC thingy -- could see itself being outsold by the Steam Machine. If Half-Life 3 is real and Valve is able to offer the Steam Machine at a much more affordable price than Helix, then Xbox will be fucked before they know it.

BC, AI, and free multiplayer are all things that the Steam Machine will be able to offer as well. So at that point, what value does the Nextbox have? Game Pass and maaaaaybe a new controller? That just won't cut it in an environment where the device is 'premium' priced and the legacy of the brand is full of overpromising and underdelivering.

*It's extremely difficult for Xbox to convince retailers to buy their current non-moving product. The domino effect of this is the Nextbox could see itself only being offered through Microsoft.com or online retailers. That's a horrendous marketing reality for new hardware, i.e., you're not in physical stores.
 
I don't expect another Xbox hardware after Helix's "generation," regardless of whether it succeeds or fails. I think Helix is the transitional object, bridging the gap to next gen for those still invested in the Xbox hardware ecosystem. But since next gen Xbox games will just be standard PC games, there would be no need for another specialized piece of hardware after that. I mean, why? To play BC games from two generations prior?

Another issue... The article says Helix must succeed or that's the end of Xbox hardware, but what does "succeed" mean for MS in this instance? From what we've heard, MS's sales expectations seem pretty modest. It could sell poorly in traditional console terms but still be a success in MS's eyes.
 
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Shubh_C63 said:
I don't believe it. I still think they would want a presence till cloud gaming is the only thing left.

They will manufacture less hardware, extremes on both expensive and economical model, but won't quit.

I'm not gonna buy it but some one will.
Click to expand...
They did the extremes of both expensive and economical this gen and failed. The problem was that without the volume they couldn't maintain the price of the economical model to be competitive. The PS5 DE, a far more capable console became the same price as the economical Xbox Series S.

I think they will try to sell this as a mini PC. The number of configurations would even expand with OEMs but their consoles are done. We will see though if what Tom Warren is saying has any weight.
 
Helix will probably be the last Xbox...
but I also think the PS6 will be the last PlayStation.

I just don't see a market for dedicated consoles in 15 years. and the next generation will last A LOOOOOOOOOONG time. imagine phone and tablet hardware in 15 years.
look what the Switch 2 can do with what is essentially 5 year old Nvidia mobile hardware... then think about that hardware evolving over 20 years (so 15 years from today).
and now imagine what a small android based box could do by then... or a cheap laptop.
 
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"Project Helix must absolutely give Xbox fans a reason to buy it over the Steam Machine, and better and broader native support of Xbox games is the only way," as Toto puts it...
Click to expand...

this's a lot more interesting if you pretend the toto being quoted is dorothy's dog from the wizard of oz...
 
Three said:
It's do or die for their hardware 100%. Do they care if it fails though? Not really. MS will obviously survive.
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kevboard said:
Helix will probably be the last Xbox...
but I also think the PS6 will be the last PlayStation.

I just don't see a market for dedicated consoles in 15 years. and the next generation will last A LOOOOOOOOOONG time. imagine phone and tablet hardware in 15 years.
look what the Switch 2 can do with what is essentially 5 year old Nvidia mobile hardware... then think about that hardware evolving over 20 years (so 15 years from today).
and now imagine what a small android based box could do by then... or a cheap laptop.
Click to expand...
Devs will find ways to melt desktop hardware even 15 yrs later.

Even something much less demanding like headphone amplifier, they benefit by going desktop, just for better sound quality.
 
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vaibhavpisal said:
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As in there is little risk? Yeah I agree, but only because the risk was already taken and now there is nothing more to lose (excluding Phil and Sarah's jobs). If they cancel (don't do) they lose just as much now due to the cancelled contract so there is little risk.
 
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What part of this do people not understand? Xbox the console is already done, there is no one more and no last chance. Project Helix and "Xbox" is from here on out a rebranded living room friendly PC with a couch friendly UI gaming skin on top of Windows. It's probably going to be pretty great assuming they don't fuck it up by trying to lock down what can be done on it, or release a buggy mess. They don't really care how many units Helix sells, and they'll probably keep releasing new models even if it "fails" cause they're not going to be subsidizing the price at all. It'll have free online, free cloud saves, mods, emulators, Gamepass, Steam. They just have to have a dedicated team making sure it has bulletproof drivers that presets all the games to optimal settings (like Nvidia Experience) and fix all the PC bullshit like firewall popups, C++ redistributables, and keyboard only interfaces.
 
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Isn't this obvious? This is the off boarding strategy. It's a PC, and they won't lose money on it because it will be priced so high. By the same token, they won't sell many because of that price. That gives them the "excuse" that times have "moved on" or something similar. They will wean people off of the "Xbox" builds and brand and it's all PC and at some point in the next few years they announce that it's all just MS gaming. Of course this is the end.
 
Three said:
As in there is little risk? Yeah I agree, but only because the risk was already taken and now there is nothing more to lose (excluding Phil and Sarah's jobs). If they cancel (don't do) they lose just as much now due to the cancelled contract so there is little risk.
Click to expand...
Big companies keep brands like this for long term purposes.

Apple was not doing great for a long time, before it got its major hits.

Xbox is well known gaming brand worldwide. Majority of non gaming population knows its something gaming related and recognises it.

In its current form its basically set up to be kept around for perpetuity.
 
vaibhavpisal said:
Devs will find ways to melt desktop hardware even 15 yrs later.

Even something much less demanding like headphone amplifier, they benefit by going desktop, just for better sound quality.
Click to expand...

they probably will. but we will very soon reach a point where the hardware is basically good enough to run any game any dev team could realistically have the manpower and budget to produce.

so even if the version you will run on your cheap Android box won't be the best one, it will be an enjoyable one. and the enthusiasts will have their PC version with all the bells and whistles that will bring their system to its limits
 
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vaibhavpisal said:
Big companies keep brands like this for long term purposes.

Apple was not doing great for a long time, before it got its major hits.

Xbox is well known gaming brand worldwide. Majority of non gaming population knows its something gaming related and recognises it.

In its current form its basically set up to be kept around for perpetuity.
Click to expand...
Xbox brand kept around for perpetuity yet that says nothing about console hardware dying or not. They tried to rebrand everything as an xbox to keep the brand alive but not commit to the console much.
 
vaibhavpisal said:
Big companies keep brands like this for long term purposes.

Apple was not doing great for a long time, before it got its major hits.

Xbox is well known gaming brand worldwide. Majority of non gaming population knows its something gaming related and recognises it.

In its current form its basically set up to be kept around for perpetuity.
Click to expand...
maxresdefault.jpg

I think you vastly overestimate the popularity of the Xbox brand worldwide.
 
The old Xbox is gone.

This hardware is Microsoft's way out; it's just a reference point and a transition for older users. We'll see other Xbox desktop hardwares made by companies like Asus, Lenovo, etc.

If I'm wrong and Microsoft continues producing dedicated gaming hardware, it will be extremely niche anyway.
 
Each console iteration after the 360 has sold fewer than the one before it with Series X/S being practically terminal. The next one will likely continue the trend, since the brand has been irreparably damaged.

What is the business case for the Helix at this point?
 
This isn't a Hail Mary. This is their last hardware and they already know it. Simply a transition for them.
 
Hardware is usually never their issue, power is usually never their issue It the games, management, steady direction and confusing fucking messaging.

Besides, how many chances should they get, to get their shit together? This is beyond Sega failures now, except Sega didn't have the cash to try again.

Faith and trust for the most part is already gone from any sane person.
 
They are copying Steam machine. That's all there is to it.
And it will fail for many reasons:
1) Too expensive.
2) Developers will no longer need to create good, dedicated, xbox console versions of their games.
3) Even when people play their games on the xbox machine, people will buy them elsewhere.
4) PS6.
 
neocycle said:
They are copying Steam machine. That's all there is to it.
And it will fail for many reasons:
1) Too expensive.
2) Developers will no longer need to create good, dedicated, xbox console versions of their games.
3) Even when people play their games on the xbox machine, people will buy them elsewhere.
4) PS6.
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1.) There are going to be several cheaper options.

2.) you don't need dedicated SKUs in order to have Optimized games. There will still be Helix Optimization, likely mandatory in order to get published on Xbox ecosystem.

3.)Xbox fans, xCloud users, Gamepass users won't buy their games elsewhere.

4.) How will PS6 fare if competition removes the online paywall? Interesting situation.
 
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Tobimacoss said:
4.) How will PS6 fare if competition removes the online paywall? Interesting situation.
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PC has already has no paywall, I can't see Nintendo removing it anytime soon.

It was Xbox that legitimised paying for online anyway, there could be a change Sony does go back to their previous PS+ model, which was a sub for games only. F2P haha y are already free to play online (I think).

I hope Xbox do remove it, but not sure they'll sell enough units to make Sony worry, but if PC continues to grow then maybe 🤷🏻
 
Tobimacoss said:
1.) There are going to be several cheaper options.

2.) you don't need dedicated SKUs in order to have Optimized games. There will still be Helix Optimization, likely mandatory in order to get published on Xbox ecosystem.

3.)Xbox fans, xCloud users, Gamepass users won't buy their games elsewhere.

4.) How will PS6 fare if competition removes the online paywall? Interesting situation.
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1) Multiple SKU's are crap. Huge burden to devs. PC level stupidity.
2) Nah, adress the dev situation. Why should they make several special versions for Microsofts new gaming abomination?
3) A tiny minority exclusive to America.
4) Wishful thinking. Won't happen.
 
Gonzito said:
Gamepass was a mistake. They should get rid of it too
Click to expand...
They will definitely phase out Day 1 on Gamepass over the next few years as they shift back to a publisher that makes money selling games model

Gamepass itself is harmless like PS Plus as long as it only gets older games and indie games which doesn't threaten sales of new games
 
This won't be the last hardware; in fact, they'll be releasing new ones more frequently, almost in the same way and with the same formula that Nvidia uses for its different series, because that's the formula they've can adopted under Windows.
The hardware certainly won't be subsidized, so it doesn't pose any risk and is a formula to maintain and try to grow the number of users in the Xbox ecosystem.

In fact, the agreement with AMD specifies that it's "a multi-year agreement for the creation of different generations of devices."
 
Its a bridge to try and keep their most loyal fans at least on windows machines instead of flocking for playstation and/or switch

Hard to know what even is considered "success" for them with this hybrid expensive device. 5 million? 10?

Imho as soon as the delusional fanboys see that they wont get dedicated software anymore for their "xbox" and this is indeed just a pc with a bc chip, I think this will fail, a lot of them are still clinging to the hope and bullshit being selled by MS shills that this is still a "console" with traditional console experiences.

Or maybe MS is content to becoming a closed pc hardware seller and will keep selling living room small factor pcs from now on at a regular basis and upgrading it accordingly. And this device is just again , a bridge, to this new business model, like for example Alienware.
 
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Free online could be enticing for many still wanting a console-ish. And there is still Xbox BC.

I do think there is a market for such a machine. Some people just want the simplicity of a console. Even if it's a PC running already installed stores + Xbox emulation.
 
Tobimacoss said:
1.) There are going to be several cheaper options.

2.) you don't need dedicated SKUs in order to have Optimized games. There will still be Helix Optimization, likely mandatory in order to get published on Xbox ecosystem.

3.)Xbox fans, xCloud users, Gamepass users won't buy their games elsewhere.

4.) How will PS6 fare if competition removes the online paywall? Interesting situation.
Click to expand...
1) several options = no dedicated software, just like PC

2) the new xbox ecosystem is windows = no dedicated software, just like PC

3) xbox fans dont buy games anyway so agreed.

4) playstation already deals with PC (their current competition) dont having paywalls, xbox will be a PC , so nothing changes
 
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The same could be said for the PS6. The console business has stalled. We're not even sure if there's going to be another console after the next generation. Consoles are converging to become PC's. Just take a look at the huge growth of Steam every year, that's where we're heading and not dedicated gaming devices in the living room.
 
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I'm shocked they're making whatever the hell this is. Let's see exactly what this ends up being before we start counting chickens as far as Xboxes though.
 
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