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[vodka-bull]

Will lead in performance until a PS6 pro waits around the corner.

I'm really confused by microsofts strategy with this one. People who are big into PC gaming alreqdy own a PC that's probably better than this Xbox.

It's 25% stronger, but if it runs on Windows or even a modified version of it, that's gonna be the bottleneck which will make the 25% more power (compared to PS6) obsolete.

Everything is an XBox and microsofts streaming service is so good, I don't need to have the games stored anywhere to reduce lag because there barely is any.

On top of that they'll continue releasing their games on PS6.

If that thing is a console they gonna need a high install base to be a competitor to PS6. Which they'll get with lots of good exclusives. They won't achieve it with opening up their entire gaming library to everyone.

If it's a PC, they won't come close to the benefits of a real PC (free games…), it's too expensive to compete with a Steam Machine (which can also Stream gamepass just fine) and notnpowerful enough to compete with real machines from hatdcore PC players.

I mean I understand the idea of Sony to compete with PCs, as there is nothing else left to compete against in the console market. But microsofts strategy makes absolutely zero sense to me.

Still wish them luck though. In the end, the consumers benefit the most if Sony has to up their game to not lose their customers.

 

[chilichote]

Has this already been discussed?

 

[PeteBull]

Ah yes, the mythical War Chest.

That mythical microsoft war chest forced xbox to port many of their exclusives not only to pc but even to playstation, day 1 too

 

[Tobimacoss]

And Sony can skips all that by just making the handheld the PS5 Portable. That's where i stand as it makes no sense calling it PS6 if it wouldn't end up running that many more games. in the next decade.

Well, the handheld has the PS6 gen tech. Things will get more complicated if Sony makes a entry level console using the internals of the Handheld. MLID alluded to a PSTV style device.

I think MS will do exactly that, use AT4 24CU for both handhelds and entry level console.

I personally think Sony WILL call it PS6 Portable, and I think they will make developer support mandatory. They should if they want it to succeed. But Sony has put themselves into a Series S situation.

In addition to having scalable Universal SKU, MS has another weapon in their arsenal. Kingdom Come 2 released March 2025, only for Series consoles. Added to xCloud right away.

In March 2026, it became Play Anywhere AND Handheld Optimized right before joining Gamepass. So MS uses Gamepass contracts as leverage to gain proper ecosystem support. Sony could do something similar with PS+ Premium.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

I'm really confused by microsofts strategy with this one. People who are big into PC gaming alreqdy own a PC that's probably better than this Xbox.

I think the point of it is Microsoft still wants an "Xbox" hardware option around but they still need to keep with the times in regards to components getting better over time. So this product achieved that basic thing, even if it isn't successful at all.

Also, if they still intend to do cloud gaming, those "consoles" need to be updated with better specs for next gen, so if they are making new hardware for the next gen of cloud gaming it stands to reason to also make that hardware available for those who want a native box.

It being a PC just shields them from high pricing criticism because it will be more than just a console in terms of functionality.

With that said, this won't be a huge success, but it will give them what they want: new hardware to base next gen around in regards to native and cloud gaming.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Also, if they still intend to do cloud gaming, those "consoles" need to be updated with better specs for next gen, so if they are making new hardware for the next gen of cloud gaming it stands to reason to also make that hardware available for those who want a native box.

That makes no sense at all. You either do cloud gaming or you do local hardware. How is "needing to upgrade local hardware" make sense for cloud gaming?

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

That makes no sense at all. You either do cloud gaming or you do local hardware. How is "needing to upgrade local hardware" make sense for cloud gaming?

If you're replacing all your cloud gaming servers with next gen hardware that games are built around, you can provide a native box for people that want that hardware at home?

It's not a requirement to do that for cloud gaming, but they probably still see value in providing people with native hardware if that hardware is already being designed and produced for cloud gaming.

Isn't that how it works for cloud gaming now? Don't they literally use XSX hardware tech for the cloud? Microsoft is literally contradicting your statement. They use the same base hardware for cloud gaming AND native gaming.

 

[Brucey]

I think MS will do exactly that, use AT4 24CU for both handhelds and entry level console.

Released by Microsoft or OEMs apparently chomping at the bit for an Xbox ally style flop?

 

[Tobimacoss]

If you're replacing all your cloud gaming servers with next gen hardware that games are built around, you can provide a native box for people that want that hardware at home?

It's not a requirement to do that for cloud gaming, but they probably still see value in providing people with native hardware if that hardware is already being designed and produced for cloud gaming.

Isn't that how it works for cloud gaming now? Don't they literally use XSX hardware tech for the cloud? Microsoft is literally contradicting your statement. They use the same base hardware for cloud gaming AND native gaming.

You are correct. xCloud currently runs on Series S profiles on custom Series X servers. Each X APU can run 4 instances of One S profiles, but they run everything on one instance of Series S profile per X APU, they do that to save energy and cooling costs.

However, next gen, they intend to run things similar to Nvidia GFN. Both GFN and xCloud run things in containers using Kubernetes. Nvidia GFN uses Blackwell 6000 Enterprise GPUs equivalent to 5090s for their Ultimate tier. They assign the GPU as one instance of 5080 tier or 2 instances of 4060 tiers. Each instance is then hooked up with 16 core CPU that is also divided from a 32 core CPU.

So next gen, MS and AMD have AT0 with massive 192 CUs. They will likely divide it into two instances of 96 CUs, to run a Magnus AT2 (68 CU) game with some overhead for better performance in order to do 4k resolution. Or they could divide into 4 instances of AT3 with 48 CUs, in order to serve the 1080p or 1440 resolutions. Each instance would need to be paired up with a Magnus CPU SOC.

Xbox and AMD designed a universal platform that covers PCs, Consoles, Laptops, Handhelds, Cloud. One Magnus CPU SOC, 5 GPU dies for the 5 form factors.

Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire

This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.

news.xbox.com

 

[Tobimacoss]

Released by Microsoft or OEMs apparently chomping at the bit for an Xbox ally style flop?

Reports are MS wants to do a handheld of their own maybe a year after the first party consoles. They did say first party CONSOLES. I think AT2 and AT3 will be the two consoles, and let OEMs handle the rest. Hopefully they're smart enough to do a Surface gaming laptop using AT3.

 

[adamsapple]

Has this already been discussed?

After saying last month that Phil's retirement meant a 'pin' on Xbox hardware, now it's "this is the last gen for sure guys".

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

You are correct. xCloud currently runs on Series S profiles on custom Series X servers. Each X APU can run 4 instances of One S profiles, but they run everything on one instance of Series S profile per X APU, they do that to save energy and cooling costs.

However, next gen, they intend to run things similar to Nvidia GFN. Both GFN and xCloud run things in containers using Kubernetes. Nvidia GFN uses Blackwell 6000 Enterprise GPUs equivalent to 5090s for their Ultimate tier. They assign the GPU as one instance of 5080 tier or 2 instances of 4060 tiers. Each instance is then hooked up with 16 core CPU that is also divivided from a 32 core CPU.

So next gen, MS and AMD have AT0 with massive 192 CUs. They will likely divide it into two instances of 96 CUs, to run a Magnus AT2 (68 CU) game with some overhead for better performance in order to do 4k resolution. Or they could divide into 4 instances of AT3 with 48 CUs, in order to serve the 1080p or 1440 resolutions. Each instance would need to be paired up with a Magnus CPU SOC.

Xbox and AMD designed a universal platform that covers PCs, Consoles, Laptops, Handhelds, Cloud. One Magnus SOC, 5 GPU dies for the 5 form factors.

Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire

This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.

news.xbox.com

Hot damn. Thanks for coming with the receipts.

 

[Topher]

After saying last month that Phil's retirement meant a 'pin' on Xbox hardware, now it's "this is the last gen for sure guys".

He's also been right about a lot of things including Microsoft publishing their games on PlayStation.

 

[adamsapple]

He's also been right about a lot of things including Microsoft publishing their games on PlayStation.

And he's also been wrong about multiple things. But he seems to be put on a high pedestal here due to confirmation bias

Remember there were some folks here who wanted to ban Jeff Grubb mentions on GAF altogether after he made that one "you'll pee out of your butt" post ?

 

[Physiognomonics]

It will run all the stores

I have said for about 2 years the next gen "console" would run Steam but this thing sounds more and more like a PC with Xbox BC baked in

Indeed. if all RDNA5 GPUs can actually run Xbox games via emulation then it's a PC with licenses to run Xbox games.

 

[Topher]

And he's also been wrong about multiple things. But he seems to be put on a high pedestal here due to confirmation bias

Remember there were some folks here who wanted to ban Jeff Grubb mentions on GAF altogether after he made that one "you'll pee out of your butt" post ?

I get that there is reason to not take his words as gospel truth. I certainly haven't. There is no reason to outright dismiss everything thing he says just because you don't like what he is saying either.

Jeff Grubb is still posted here due to him being more right than wrong in the past despite being a douchebag. So not sure what your point there is supposed to be.

 

[Topher]

 

[Tobimacoss]

Yep, it's a slow process that sped up with the GDK. Plus, AMD hardware before wasn't powerful enough to do full convergence. It can't be done without full AMD partnership. Now they finally have all the pieces of the puzzle in place. They also needed Gamepass and xCloud to reach the current thresholds.

 

[Brucey]

Reports are MS wants to do a handheld of their own maybe a year after the first party consoles. They did say first party CONSOLES. I think AT2 and AT3 will be the two consoles, and let OEMs handle the rest. Hopefully they're smart enough to do a Surface gaming laptop using AT3.

"Sarah Bond, President of Xbox, shares how Xbox and AMD are working together to advance the state of the art in gaming silicon across the Xbox ecosystem, including our next-generation Xbox console"

 

[Zeusexy]

More like "project helix fossil", judging from the amount of dust it will collect in the shelves.

 

[Topher]

Yep, it's a slow process that sped up with the GDK. Plus, AMD hardware before wasn't powerful enough to do full convergence. It can't be done without full AMD partnership. Now they finally have all the pieces of the puzzle in place.

Which is why we have a constant back and forth on whether this is a console or a PC. Just have to wait and see the end result to really make a determination for ourselves.

 

[Brucey]

More like "project helix fossil", judging from the amount of dust it will collect in the shelves.

 

[Tobimacoss]

"Sarah Bond, President of Xbox, shares how Xbox and AMD are working together to advance the state of the art in gaming silicon across the Xbox ecosystem, including our next-generation Xbox console"

"This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. As part of this, Xbox unveiled that it has entered into a strategic, multi-year partnership with AMD to co-engineer silicon across a portfolio of devices, including future first-party consoles and cloud."

Next-gen Xbox console could be joined by even more powerful “super-premium”partner offerings

Windows Central says the next Xbox console will essentially double-up as a fully-functional Windows machine. Alongside Microsoft’s console, third-party OEMs will work on delivering a similar experience across all price segments.

www.notebookcheck.net

"Jez has learned from his sources that Microsoft is working with third-party OEMs to develop more affordable offerings that deliver a similar experience at lower prices. Apparently, some third-party offerings could be even more powerful than the next Xbox."

 

[tylrdiablos]

I wonder what dumb name they'll come up this time... [X Box Series PC], [PC Box]... ?
Can't wait.

 

[Topher]

They did say first party CONSOLES.

That really doesn't mean anything. Microsoft ain't exactly strict with their usage of terms. "This is an Xbox" taught us that.

 

[adamsapple]

Jeff Grubb is still posted here due to him being more right than wrong in the past despite being a douchebag. So not sure what your point there is supposed to be.

Like I said, confirmation bias. It's pretty plain to see.

 

[Topher]

Like I said, confirmation bias. It's pretty plain to see.

Yeah....that's too easy for someone who is looking for any excuse to dismiss a take.

 

[adamsapple]

Yeah....that's too easy for someone who is looking for any excuse to dismiss a take.

You're welcome to disagree with the take. I'm just stating what I've observed.

I wonder what dumb name they'll come up this time... [X Box Series PC], [PC Box]... ?
Can't wait.

Just call it The Xbox. Simple and snappy.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Curious about the specs

 

[reinking]

And he's also been wrong about multiple things. But he seems to be put on a high pedestal here due to confirmation bias

Remember there were some folks here who wanted to ban Jeff Grubb mentions on GAF altogether after he made that one "you'll pee out of your butt" post ?

I don't believe anything 100% until it is 100% confirmed by the companies directly for several reasons. One of them being, even if something is known at one point in time, it is subject to change. The person I trust the most around here is HeisenbergFX4 because he has been very clear on how he gets information. Does it make it 100% accurate? No, but it makes things interesting and he does not try to mislead anyone.

You say confirmation bias about S SneakersSO like that is not prevalent in the Xbox circles. We all choose what we want to believe and most of us do it based on our own bias. We are human. Except bender who just wants us all dead.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

If Microsoft is smart, then they would have figured out what they should have figured out over a decade ago... that they cannot compete with PlayStation. But more importantly, they should have figured out that they never even needed to.

They already always had a strong foothold in the PC space... I mean, Valve built a $25B company and storefront generating over $4B in sales on the back of Microsoft. And yet MS somehow saw it fit to ignore that market and compete with PlayStation?

Hopefully, this is their first attempt at correcting that. Before all this tralk about helix and xbox next gen, I have been saying what MS needs to do is consolidate its place in the PC gaming space. Build out a version of windows that excel in gaming and take it to Valve instead. I don't know if they are finally doing that, but if they are... as far as their console goes, all they need to do is price it at a point where for the same money you would barely be able to build an equivalent PC, even if they are selling it at a profit.

 

[damidu]

In the end, the warchest DID exist. It just wasn't bottomless. The Activision purchase finally emptied it. The problem being Activision was worth more than the entire Xbox division, so Xbox was basically in debt to Microsoft HQ by that act.

Just because you could buy it, does not mean you could "afford" it. Xbox bought what they couldn't afford.

yep. warchest basically killed xbox, that's the most poetic part of it all.
It cost the cult their toy, after decades of begging for it.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

yep. warchest basically killed xbox, that's the most poetic part of it all.
It cost the cult their toy, after decades of begging for it.

There is a reason Microsoft only reports "gaming division" revenue (which stands at ~$25B for 2025) and never profits. Between Nintendo, Sony, Valve, and them, they are the only ones that do that.

Xbox, via Microsoft, had a bottomless warchest, but having a warchest doesnt mean that what you spend it on shouldnt make you money. If after all that spending, their gaming division either wasn't making a profit, not showing any actual signs of growth (generating more revenue vs the former year isnt growth out of the ordinary when you just added Activision to your coffers), maybe breaking even or making a profit thats under $5B?

That starts to stir up so many really hard questions. You don't spend $80B to bolster a gaming division that ends up making only like $5B/year (and this is being generous because I doubt its anywhere near that). Thats just bad business.

 

[KeplerL2]

After saying last month that Phil's retirement meant a 'pin' on Xbox hardware, now it's "this is the last gen for sure guys".

Idk if Asha taking over changes anything but the original contract with AMD was for multiple generations of products.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Idk if Asha taking over changes anything but the original contract with AMD was for multiple generations of products.

And an entire portfolio of devices. AMD knows the only way their discrete GPUs will survive is if they're dual or triple purpose chiplet design.

 

[adamsapple]

Idk if Asha taking over changes anything but the original contract with AMD was for multiple generations of products.

Interesting.

Wonder if that includes, or included, that now defunct native handheld they were reportedly planning at one time.

 

[demigod]

PS6 games on PS6bHH is going to be a total mess...

1. No way 3rd party will let you play same code on both. Can you imagine settings menu nightmare? Choosing performance and quality mode for both consoles versions on one software? They gonna collectively say Fuuuuuuck dat!

2. I'm betting they will want to charge say $25 to download HH tweaked code. You won't get HH code for free. It takes too much time and manpower to give that away for free. Sony 1st party stuff? Maybe. 3rd party titles? No way.

You wanna explain how i can play steam games on my pc and steam deck there champ?

The PS6 handheld will have to be able to play PS6 games or it'll be DoA.

 

[Physiognomonics]

So this is why perhaps Sony wants to stop releasing on PC (if the rumors are true in the first place). Many existing ones like Uncharted 4 etc, will be seemingly playable on new Xbox.

Yep. I think that would be main deciding factor in their decision. And yes all games already ported, their most precious IPs (except GT), will forever run on Xbox / Steam going forward!

 

[TintoConCasera]

"No, I don't want to give up"

Quite appropriate!

 

[Proelite]

Idk if Asha taking over changes anything but the original contract with AMD was for multiple generations of products.

The fact that BC is built into RDNA5 and successors means that it would be trivial for Xbox and OEMs to make devices, same way that even small Chinese OEMs like GPD comes out with multiple SKUs a year.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Idk if Asha taking over changes anything but the original contract with AMD was for multiple generations of products.

Possibly at a faster cadence than what people are used to in "generations"

 

[adamsapple]

The fact that BC is built into RDNA5 and successors means that it would be trivial for Xbox and OEMs to make devices, same way that even small Chinese OEMs like GPD comes out with multiple SKUs a year.

Sure, but Kepler is hinting at Generations.

OEM's released in the same window would fall in the same generation, no?

Possibly at a faster cadence than what people are used to in "generations"

Like how a new 50/60 etc series of Nvidia GPU comes out sooner than a traditional console cycle and marks the shift into a new 'generation' for them?

 

[KeplerL2]

Possibly at a faster cadence than what people are used to in "generations"

 

[demigod]

They aren't going to. The part thats being lost in Jez Corden's PR piece is that the XboxOS SKU line will be killed with this HW release. Its all the Windows/PC build for Xbox going forward.

If you're an Xbox HW user, you won't feel a overall loss of support as long as the game can run on this machine via Steam or the Xbox on PC store, which is just running a WindowsOS version of any game.

You're welcome to disagree with the take. I'm just stating what I've observed.



Just call it The Xbox. Simple and snappy.

He's been saying the xbox sku has been dead for a while and this news confirms it. Tom Warren didnt mention xbox sku, haven't heard K KeplerL2 say anything about it, and HeisenbergFX4 thinks its dead.

 

[adamsapple]

He's been saying the xbox sku has been dead for a while and this news confirms it. Tom Warren didnt mention xbox sku, haven't heard K KeplerL2 say anything about it, and HeisenbergFX4 thinks its dead.

You know very well that's not what I'm referencing.

 

[demigod]

You know very well that's not what I'm referencing.

You were claiming he's wrong multiple times, but i'm telling you he's right about the xbox pc.

 

[adamsapple]

You were claiming he's wrong multiple times, but i'm telling you he's right about the xbox pc.

ok?

We've been hearing about the Xbox hybrid since around 2023, early 2024, from HeisenbergFX4 , long before anyone else's input on the matter.

That and saying no less than a month ago that Phil's retirement puts a pin on future Xbox HW is a pretty noteworthy thing to get wrong.

If you're gonna try to squirm semantics in here and say 'but he's talking about Xbox HW, not a hybrid PC HW' then you can go down that road alone.

 

[Artistic]

Is it possible that they're made to order? Like they just won't be sitting in big box retailers readily available?

 

[Topher]

You're welcome to disagree with the take. I'm just stating what I've observed.

As am I

 

[Brucey]

ok?

We've been hearing about the Xbox hybrid since around 2023, early 2024, from HeisenbergFX4 , long before anyone else's input on the matter.

That and saying no less than a month ago that Phil's retirement puts a pin on future Xbox HW is a pretty noteworthy thing to get wrong.

If you're gonna try to squirm semantics in here and say 'but he's talking about Xbox HW, not a hybrid PC HW' then you can go down that road alone.

I figure Phil and Bond are "spending time with family" after Papa Phil said this back in Nov 2024, guessing he fought hard against the retardation of going for $1000+ price point but overruled by those above (Nutella? The board?).

"Looking more widely, Spencer said he feels "pretty good about where this industry is going", explaining that his point of view is that: "To reach new players, we need to be creative and adaptive of new business models, new devices, new ways of access. We're not going to grow the market with $1,000 consoles.""

"We’re not going to grow the market with $1,000 consoles", Xbox boss Phil Spencer says, likely leaving the PS5 Pro pretty PSSRd off

Xbox boss Phil Spencer has said "We’re not going to grow the market with $1,000 consoles" as part of some comments about the future of the industry.

www.vg247.com