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Asha Sharma: Next Xbox Project Name: "Helix" - Will 'lead in performance and play your Xbox and PC games'
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
Why wouldn't Stores like Steam just develop a storefront that launched from the Xbox launcher and are optimised for big screen?My Windows Xbox app continues to collate many of the stores I have installed on my PC.
If a game is installed on Steam, GOG, Epic, they show up in my Xbox app library. I can launch the game directly from there.
I'm assuming Helix will be similar.
You will need to take the time to boot into a desktop mode to find and install your games.
Xbox mode will have you in the same 'Mode' complete with a store.
I wonder if MS is counting on lazy gamers who don't want to bother booting into another mode to buy a game.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Then I'd have to buy a Series S that I won't use frequently, I rather have a good machine for stuff I actually do frequently. Besides, it can potentially become my main machine under the TV for a couple years if it's powerful enough, I'm not getting a PS5 for my third party with that controller (I hate symmetric thumb sticks)
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Steam makes it a pain, You have to add games individually as a non Steam game. It's a PITA. If using Steam Deck you also have to manage Proton stuff. There are apps that help through.
Xbox app, the games are just there, they might have weird low res icons but I can hit launch.
splattered
Member
I would 100% take same high spec but lower cost box with a mandatory subscription. Im already paying for GPU monthly it wouldn't bother me one bit but I get why that would be a huge red flag for other people.
reinking
Gold Member
It also gives you fragmented marketplaces and devices (for better or worse). Console players tend to freak out over two SKUs. How many will MS have the Xbox name attached to? I would not count in controller configs either because adding PC games to a console creates more issues than it solves. Everyone keeps telling me this is a console experience on the TV. I have been playing PC games on the TV for years and it is not as straight forward as adding a controller and you are done. Sure, it works for a lot of games but there are plenty out there that still require a mouse/KB to be enjoyable. To be fair, you said a console-like experience. That is just it, how much does "like" come into play for traditional console players?
I'm not pooping the idea as much as thinking through pros and cons. Console gamers (not enthusiast) play on consoles because it is very simply plug and play. A hybrid will create some barriers that they have not dealt with very well in the past. On the PC side, are PC gamers going to give up the ability to upgrade? Will they finally tell Jensen to FU and go with an AMD based system? No idea where Game Pass is going to fit in. T Tobimacoss keeps saying online is going free (I've heard that before) but what happens then? Will people stay subbed to lower tiers? Remember there were over 10 million Xbox Live accounts that were merged into Game Pass a few years ago. Those were pretty much paying for multiplayer online. Will they stick around? Did MS created enough new users to offset? Will Game Pass even be the focus going forward? (no idea) I think one thing that could be profitable for MS is advertising. Even if players are playing Steam games through the Xbox launcher, suddenly they have widened their reach in that area.
Personally, I am still holding off to see exactly what Helix is. I will base my decision to buy on factors that I deem important to me and not what marketing is telling me. I am looking forward to learning more.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Let's just move on, lol.
mayham2199
Member
I'll believe it when I see it.
Gamer_By_Proxy
About to beat off
But they're going to stop all Xbox coded releases. It'll just be PC games going forward. Which is why I think this is one last hurrah.
3rd parties won't skip PC, so if Xbox just accepts PC releases, they're no longer skipped. It's one last platform to code for and it's a platform a lot of devs don't want to deal with.
I love my steam deck and I wish steam machine was beefier for that price. But SteamOS shines a spotlight on how shit windows os and the xbox app are. Xbox didn't even change their UI this generation, you really think they'll make the Xbox app anywhere close to steam big picture or windows 11 like steamOS? They don't want to disable things like AI. I hear the windows team doesn't allow a lot of stuff to be stripped to streamline gaming.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I wonder what a Series X running a bespoke version of windows would look like - what sort of benchmarks you'd get. Presumably you could get it running and playing games but less efficiently than the console games.
I assume that this new hardware will run PC games at a level of fidelity that doesn't challenge high end PC, but will run games at a similar fidelity to what you'd expect on a next gen console. In that sense, I think it might be possible for it to not be a hugely expensive gaming rig, and have more in common with console pricing. I'm interested to see the box design and the RRP. I'm also interested to see what Xbox's software strategy will be for the machine - I'm still slightly skeptical of it being a machine that people buy and never use a Microsoft store to buy their games. There must be something that Microsoft are planning to significantly incentivise buying from them, rather than users treating it as an unofficial steam box.
I assume that this new hardware will run PC games at a level of fidelity that doesn't challenge high end PC, but will run games at a similar fidelity to what you'd expect on a next gen console. In that sense, I think it might be possible for it to not be a hugely expensive gaming rig, and have more in common with console pricing. I'm interested to see the box design and the RRP. I'm also interested to see what Xbox's software strategy will be for the machine - I'm still slightly skeptical of it being a machine that people buy and never use a Microsoft store to buy their games. There must be something that Microsoft are planning to significantly incentivise buying from them, rather than users treating it as an unofficial steam box.
LordBritish
Member
My shitton of free epic games and twitch amazon games are ready… just make it $899
Team Andromeda
Banned
Not this time mate, XBox isn't going for a cheap massmarket console anymore.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Poor Digital Foundry.
I think there will be an Xbox settings mode for games sold on Xbox store.
Helix mode. Whatever requirements are needed for a developer to make a game for that hardware.
The games bought on Xbox store will have this mode on default. You start playing your game right away, just like you do on a normal console.
I wonder if these same games bought on the Xbox store will also have PC like settings in the menu.
Just skip over the Xbox setting and go hog wild on the settings just like a normal PC game.
Games sold on Steam could keep that Xbox setting just like how a few games have Steam Deck settings now.
Digital Foundry will have to do more work comparing PS6 to Xbox mode to Helix PC mode with other settings.
Then PS6 Pro gets released and we add another window to the DF side by side screens.
Developers of course wont be doing more work.
They will eventually get tired and just say F it here's the PC version, do what you want.
I think there will be an Xbox settings mode for games sold on Xbox store.
Helix mode. Whatever requirements are needed for a developer to make a game for that hardware.
The games bought on Xbox store will have this mode on default. You start playing your game right away, just like you do on a normal console.
I wonder if these same games bought on the Xbox store will also have PC like settings in the menu.
Just skip over the Xbox setting and go hog wild on the settings just like a normal PC game.
Games sold on Steam could keep that Xbox setting just like how a few games have Steam Deck settings now.
Digital Foundry will have to do more work comparing PS6 to Xbox mode to Helix PC mode with other settings.
Then PS6 Pro gets released and we add another window to the DF side by side screens.
Developers of course wont be doing more work.
They will eventually get tired and just say F it here's the PC version, do what you want.
Sethbacca
Member
They're only hobbled if there's a parity requirement. That's where MS went wrong with the series S. If there's no parity requirement then devs can do what they want.
Topher
Identifies as young
I would have thought more than that, but if this is a full Windows PC then that's not a bad price.
reinking
Gold Member
Maybe I am being optimistic but I am seeing a potential price of $1000. I still think that is high for traditional console players but low enough to keep Xbox enthusiast and maybe pull in entry level PC players.
Nydius
Member
This veteran of the console wars is retired. If there were actual military ribbons for the console wars, I'd have an extensive ribbon rack with service stars. And special ribbons like Xbox Launch Campaign.
But I'm tired, and I no longer trust the, let's call them generals, making strategic decisions for any of the companies.
I am now a serviceman of the economic wars. I will buy whichever offers the most compelling value for the price. Right now, I don't think that will be Helix. I can't see why I'd want to buy an expensive curated non-upgradable midrange PC. I don't have a massive digital Xbox library I'd need to migrate.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
Everybody is saying it's "just a PC with an Xbox sticker on it" but it's still going to use a semi-custom SoC and have a hardware setup that is designed with future gaming demands in mind. I mean the hardware itself seems no different than what they would have done anyway if they just continued on with the current closed Xbox platform.
This is more custom than what Valve is doing with Steam Machine.
This is more custom than what Valve is doing with Steam Machine.
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Humdinger
Member
That's how I understand it, yes.
It will come in a console form factor, though (looks good in the living room) and will probably be marketed by MS as their next "console," so there will be some confusion.
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Rambone
Member
Holding off is the smartest move until we have more information. In my view, Helix will probably use a mix of custom parts to keep the price down, address cooling needs and form factor, which means upgrades may be limited to NVME storage. The real concern is whether Microsoft avoids repeating the mistakes from the Series generation, such as locking down the base OS drive and turning failures into time bombs, or forcing custom storage solutions. Ideally, you can install any NVME drive you want without restrictions.
Even with those unknowns, I am genuinely interested in seeing what they build. The idea of a larger and more powerful Steam Machine that uses Windows as the foundation is exactly what I want. Windows gives you far better compatibility with games, mods, and the broader PC ecosystem while still allowing the device to behave like a console in the living room.
If Microsoft can deliver that balance of console simplicity and PC flexibility, Helix could end up being a very compelling device.
Until Lord Gaben releases a true living room machine that can handle modern PC games without compromise for the next eight years, I will gladly take enthusiast level hardware from Microsoft that can brute force the performance issues that Windows and unoptimized games tend to create. That is exactly what I do now with my RTX 5080 in my current rig. As long as getting to Steam is not inconvenient, I am not too worried about the interface.
The real sticking point is that PC should be the way forward, but the Xbox and Microsoft Store versions of games are not always at parity with their Steam counterparts. That inconsistency is still a problem, but as long as Steam is available, it is not my problem. I will buy games from the Xbox or Microsoft Store only when they are true exclusives and not coming to Steam anytime soon.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Key words. "at least."
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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MisterXDTV
Member
The only thing semi-custom is basically the chip for backwards compatibility added inside...
Anything else you can find on any PC, once Zen 6 + RDNA 5 are out on the market
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I don't understand why he has been giving the same estimate for quite a few months now while component costs keep going up.
In the end it's a pretty unsteady market right now for any company trying to source parts, so nobody has any clue what this will end up costing. Even Microsoft probably can't fully nail it down.
Unfortunatecookie
Member
I'll bet you a crispy clean $1 that Xbox will make it impossible to strip the AI 'integration' out of their next-gen Xbox. I have a really bad feeling that OEM's will be forced -- by Microsoft -- to shove as much of their annoying AI stuff as possible into their line of Xbox's.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
I can't afford that bet. Saving up for RE9 DLC...
YOU PC BRO?!
Gold Member
I'm interested to understand how this will work. There are three paths that I can think of that could be taken...
- Xbox OS to be more like a Steam Big Picture mode and allow you to exit back to a PC desktop
- Windows 12 exists within some kind of launcher that allows you to run it as a VM from Xbox OS
- As all Xbox games run individually as a VM. In theory there could be a more PC like wrapper that allows PC games to run isolated in the same manner. Games purchased from Windows Store on PC would be easy but it would likely require partnership from Steam, Epic etc. to access games purchased on those storefronts.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Interesting. If you're right, I'm surprised they are talking about Helix now.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
No way the PS6P will be mandated to play every PS6 game. I refuse to believe Sony would be that stupid. They've never did anything like that before in 30 years of PS history.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I think it would be better for them to release as much info about how this all works asap.
There are still games being released between now and whenever this eventually gets released.
GTA6 is in here somewhere.
I want to know info so I can start deciding where I want to buy.
Steam, Xbox PC app (ha I know but it's a possibility)
Or just say F it and get a Playstation.
I see posts of people myself included who have already visited Gamestop and traded in things.
The current Series gen isn't doing so hot. I'm not buying anything on an Xbox console until I know whats going on with this new system.
ReasonBeing
Member
I think a quarter of that, but I still want one.
Venom Snake
Member
Considering how expensive gaming PCs are in Poland now, even if it cost $2k i would buy it in a heartbeat.
asdasdasdbb
Member
I imagine that's the plan.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Sethbacca
Member
Right, but imagining that's the plan and knowing it's the plan are two different things. Therefore we can't really make that assumption at the moment.
I agree though, a parity requirement would be shit.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
MisterXDTV
Member
What???
You know that Series is at 30M with HALF of that number coming from the cheap Series S right?
Here we are talking about a $1200+ PC?.....
20M LOL
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reinking
Gold Member
I am not calling you out, but I am curious because you are an Xbox fan and seem to be the target for Helix. What is the ceiling?Matches the price I thought *before* the current RAM apocalypse.
ReasonBeing
Member
I imagine the loss of MS Store revenue is more than made up by fending off SteamOS from becoming the de facto PC gaming platform. It will probably push GamePass at its users like a bitch in heat as well.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I am not calling you out, but I am curious because you are an Xbox fan and seem to be the target for Helix. What is the ceiling?
Anything higher than $1500 will be a toughy.
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kevboard
Member
there are 2 possible scenarios.
scenario 1: the new handheld will have forced parity with the PS6
scenario 2: the handheld will have force parity with the PS5
either way, we can expect third party devs to still target the base PS5 for a LOOOOOOONG time, regardless of the new PS Handheld.
so either way, a low end Xbox would be less of a risk than the Series S was this generation.
and I think the parity clause will hinge on what Sony's first party wants to do, not what third parties want.
if Sony wants to have all games also work on the handheld, then they will force PS6 parity. if Sony wants to keep the option to fully utilise the PS6 and not be limited by the handheld, then they will only force PS5 parity.
I don't think they care what 3rd parties think because they expect 3rd parties to just keep releasing PS5 versions anyway, because the playerbase is too large to ignore for AAA games, and the hardware isn't really a limitation for low budget or indie games.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Scenario 2 is cool with me!
kevboard
Member
no matter the scenario, I think Microsoft releasing a low end version of Helix will be less of a gamble due to the new Sony Handheld, and due to the fact that "cross gen" development with PS5 will very likely be the default state for the vast majority of games
Scenario 3: PS handheld doesnt release and ps portal carries on streaming future.
PS6 delayed till 2030 for newer generation of hardware that can actually justify a new generation, and its not saddled with backward compatibility demands to some ps4 portable level shitbox.