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[adamsapple]

​

Coming from Suda 51 and Grasshopper Manufacture, technical excellence isn't exactly what you'd expect from developers of this pedigree - but what you're always guaranteed are imaginative, creative experiences. John and Alex compare notes on the console and PC versions of the game.


00:00 - Introduction
01:10 - Let's Talk About The Game
02:38 - Yes, it's UE5 Again
03:17 - Alex Talks about Visuals
05:52 - Lumen Issues?
08:11 - Multi-Platform Comparisons
13:15 - Frame-Rate Tests
18:40 - How is the PC Version? The Battaglia Verdict
25:50 - Some Bugs
26:39 - End of Video

 

[Sticks]

 

[adamsapple]

- Based on Unreal Engine 5
- More polished than Grass Hopper's previous games but still very janky
- Generous amount of particles, splatter effects and unique geometry effects praised
- Software Lumen GI in use which can cause fizzle. Indoor reflections aren't exactly good in the few spaces mirrors are seen, but outdoor reflections are better.

Consoles:
- All consoles except Series S have Quality/Performance mode
- DF does not recommend using Quality mode on any console cause of gigantic performance hit

PS5 Pro:
- Slightly above 1080p native with up-scaling to 4K with a 4K UI
- IQ isn't amazing but it's 'all right', low motion blur recommended

- PS5/Series S|X all seem to hover in DRS range between 720p and 1080p
- Xbox IQ is a little bit 'worse' with more specular noise on textures not seem in PS5
- Story transition cut-scenes are FMV videos which can have a stutter for a second when they start on Xbox, they start smoothly on PS5
- One bug noted on PS5 where audio cut-off in one FMV

Performance:
- 'Series X runs this game the best'
- Combat scenario noted locked 60fps on SX, same area shows drops to low 50's on PS5 Pro
- Base PS5 runs worse than Pro. In general it drops frames in areas where both PS5 Pro and Series X are locked 60
- One tested area shows PS5 Pro frame rate dropping to low 40's in an area
- Series S seems to have a single mode which matches the Quality mode on other consoles, but runs unlocked with frame rate hovering in the low to mid 30's
- 120hz system level VRR makes the Series S version feel smoother
- Oddly enough the same 120hz/VRR setup does not work well on PS5/Pro
- 'the second rate VRR implementation lets it down a bit'

PC:
- 'Surprisingly heavy'
- Medium presets can cause dips to 40's with a Ryzen 3600/5060
- Changing overall preset to Medium does not change individual variables to low, they still seem to run at Ultra/High equivalent
- Changing global preset only seems to change the internal rendering resolution, the settings and what they do is not labeled clearly in the game.
- Each sword swing would sow a higher frame time on a 4060 GPU
- Cut-scenes can drop performance very variably, from 50's to 20's on camera cuts
- "A number of stages of jank here"
- But on the positive, there doesn't seem to be traversal or shader comp stutters
- No native ultra-wide support at the moment, setting to UW draws pillar boxes

- No native HDR on any platform.

Verdict:
- Series X or PS5 Pro will have a pretty good time.
- Base PS5, not horrible but not as good, Series S, not that good
- PC, your mileage may vary.

 

[Bojji]

- Based on Unreal Engine 5
- More polished than Grass Hopper's previous games but still very janky
- Generous amount of particles, splatter effects and unique geometry effects praised
- Software Lumen GI in use which can cause fizzle. Indoor reflections aren't exactly good in the few spaces mirrors are seen, but outdoor reflections are better.

Consoles:
- All consoles except Series S have Quality/Performance mode
- DF does not recommend using Quality mode on any console cause of gigantic performance hit

PS5 Pro:
- Slightly above 1080p native with up-scaling to 4K with a 4K UI
- IQ isn't amazing but it's 'all right', low motion blur recommended

- PS5/Series S|X all seem to hover in DRS range between 720p and 1080p
- Xbox IQ is a little bit 'worse' with more specular noise on textures not seem in PS5
- Story transition cut-scenes are FMV videos which can have a stutter for a second when they start on Xbox, they start smoothly on PS5
- One bug noted on PS5 where audio cut-off in one FMV

Performance:
- 'Series X runs this game the best'
- Combat scenario noted locked 60fps on SX, same area shows drops to low 50's on PS5 Pro
- Base PS5 runs worse than Pro with lowest drops seem to low 41, 42fps. In general it drops frames in areas where both PS5 Pro and Series X are locked 60.
- Series S seems to have a single mode which matches the Quality mode on other consoles, but runs unlocked with frame rate hovering in the low to mid 30's
- 120hz system level VRR makes the Series S version feel smoother
- Oddly enough the same 120hz/VRR setup does not work well on PS5/Pro
- 'the second rate VRR implementation lets it down a bit'

PC:
- 'Surprisingly heavy'
- Medium presets can cause dips to 40's with a Ryzen 3600/5060
- Changing overall preset to Medium does not change individual variables to low, they still seem to run at Ultra/High equivalent
- Changing global preset only seems to change the internal rendering resolution, the settings and what they do is not labeled clearly in the game.
- Each sword swing would sow a higher frame time on a 4060 GPU
- Cut-scenes can drop performance very variably, from 50's to 20's on camera cuts
- "A number of stages of jank here"
- But on the positive, there doesn't seem to be traversal or shader comp stutters
- No native ultra-wide support at the moment, setting to UW draws pillar boxes

- No native HDR on any platform.

Verdict:
- Series X or PS5 Pro will have a pretty good time.
- Base PS5, not horrible but not as good, Series S, not that good
- PC, your mileage may vary.

Another UE5 disaster.

 

[squallbr]

Unreal is a Dead SHIT

 

[adamsapple]

Another UE5 disaster.

Series X is a beast.

This and High on Life 2, both UE5 games, releasing days apart that seem to run better there.

 

[Sebastian1295]

Another UE5 disaster.

I don't think this is a UE5 problem tbh. The game looks like an xbox one game and they can't get the resolution to 4k nor can they lock the framerate down?? Just terrible terrible optimization for a game that looks mediocre graphically.

 

[Bojji]

Series X is a beast.

This and High on Life 2, both UE5 games, releasing days apart that seem to run better there.

Many ue5 games run better on Xbox in the last 2 years on something. Yet in the other thread you can read that power advantage never showed up in games.

 

[bender]

Series X is a beast.

 

[Darsxx82]

Japanese games... fresh ideas, innovative gameplay, good concepts, etc., but also an extreme risk of poor performance and optimization. That's been the norm this generation.

And unsurprisingly, the 30fps quality modes are a disaster.

The worst part is that these bugs, graphical glitches, and VRR not working correctly on PS5 will likely take a very long time to fix, or may never be fixed at all.

 

[Killer8]

PC version doesn't seem as bad as expected once we understand how Grasshopper's incomprehensible settings work. It's unfortunate to need to say it, but no traversal or shader compilation stutter is a big win. I'd also expect that version to get a RenoDX HDR mod soon.

I think it's the clear winner. Echoes of Metal Gear Solid Delta PC version.

 

[Darsxx82]

Many ue5 games run better on Xbox in the last 2 years on something. Yet in the other thread you can read that power advantage never showed up in games.

The thing is, in these last two years it hasn't just been UE5 games; there are a large number of AAA games with other graphics engines with similar result (IDtech, WH40Kengine, RemedyNorthlight, Snowdrop, etc.).

And this when those same people in the other thread were saying and defending that at this point the situation would be worse than at the beginning of the generation because "most studios weren't going to bother making games for the XS consoles (funny when you see the type of game analized here) , much less optimizing for the XSX"...
I dont know, maybe I suppose that makes the XSX hardware even more worthy of recognition??.

 

[bender]

Japanese games... fresh ideas, innovative gameplay, good concepts, etc., but also an extreme risk of poor performance and optimization. That's been the norm this generation.

And unsurprisingly, the 30fps quality modes are a disaster.

The worst part is that these bugs, graphical glitches, and VRR not working correctly on PS5 will likely take a very long time to fix, or may never be fixed at all.

That's my fear. I'll wait for a deep discount now.

 

[Sticks]

My SX never let me down

 

[Karim]

Series X is a beast.

This and High on Life 2, both UE5 games, releasing days apart that seem to run better there.

 

[adamsapple]

My SX never let me down

If it's a UE5 game, you can put a safe bet. It's good for multiplatform owners like myself.

 

[kevboard]

UE5 + Lumen, at this point, is an automatic skip.

I just can't anymore.

 

[LordCBH]

Based on Unreal Engine 5

 

[Skifi28]

multiplatform owners like myself.

Sometimes one has to wonder if even you believe your own bullshit.

 

[adamsapple]

Sometimes one has to wonder if even you believe your own bullshit.

It only matters to me if you believe it

 

[Lokaum D+]

me back in 2006 "HD and FHD are so good, technology one day may even surpass this high definition resolution"

me in 2026 " shit"

 

[Skifi28]

It only matters to me if you believe it

 

[Danjin44]

You are not playing game like Romeo for "high tech graphics". this games lots of flaws but at the same time its gives me type of experience i cant get anywhere else.

 

[Klayzer]

Man, you Xbox fans are desperate for any kind of win. If apple is posting a DF comparison, you just know the Series X had some kind of a decimal point win.

 

[Gitaroo]

Low setting on PC is 100% internal res and ultra setting is 200% internal res. If your resolution is set to 4K and graphic setting is set to ultra the game is running at 8K from what I understand.

I added these lines to the engine.ini for HDR

[SystemSettings]
r.AllowHDR=1
r.HDR.EnableHDROutput=1
r.HDR.Display.ColorGamut=2
r.HDR.Display.OutputDevice=5
r.HDR.UI.CompositeMode=1
r.HDR.UI.Level=1.5
r.HDR.Display.MidLuminance=30
r.HDR.Display.MaxLuminance=800

Looks pretty decent to me.

You can use Ultra + manager to push the graphical settings even further. Like enabling Megalights

 

[demigod]

If it's a UE5 game, you can put a safe bet. It's good for multiplatform owners like myself.

How much longer until you become a lifelong pc gamer?

 

[Fbh]

Another UE5 banger in glorious 720p with frame rate drops.

 

[adamsapple]

Man, you Xbox fans are desperate for any kind of win. If apple is posting a DF comparison, you just know the Series X had some kind of a decimal point checkmark.

 

[Bojji]

Man, you Xbox fans are desperate for any kind of win. If apple is posting a DF comparison, you just know the Series X had some kind of a decimal point checkmark.

He is posting all kinds of comparisons from DF.

 

[Darsxx82]

He is posting all kinds of comparisons from DF.

I think Adam does (and with dedicate effort in the summaries) 85%+ of the DF threads... Does it means that he think XSX win...?

 

[Jesb]

I'm not really a fan of this dev's games but those that are, aren't for its technical ability. Blaming the engine for any issues is mostly on the developer. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of their games were strong technically.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

I'm not really a fan of this dev's games but those that are, aren't for its technical ability. Blaming the engine for any issues is mostly on the developer. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of their games were strong technically.

Yes, that's correct.
Or at least it is on the platforms I've played their games (Ps3/Wii)
Absolutely horrible performance in pretty much all of their titles.
Killer Is Dead on Ps3 has some of the most atrocious screen tearing I have ever seen.
I used to enjoy their quirkiness, but stuff like No more heroes 2 has aged poorly gameplay wise.

 

[Durin]

If it doesn't have stutter, then they've done a decent job by this gen's standards with bigger games using UE5.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Series X is a beast.

This and High on Life 2, both UE5 games, releasing days apart that seem to run better there.

*720p

 

[FalconPunch]

UE5 seal of quality. Just garbage upon garbage. Personally, I don't buy UE5 games anymore unless the technical performance is proven to be competent.

Unfortunately, it rarely is and on the off chance it is, then I wait for a deep sale. It is truly the worst mass market game engine as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

Series X is a beast.

This and High on Life 2, both UE5 games, releasing days apart that seem to run better there.

Yeah, tomorrow we will see huge spike in sales for Xbox. :/

 

[FalconPunch]

Series X is a beast.

This and High on Life 2, both UE5 games, releasing days apart that seem to run better there.

Ps5 pro runs at a higher resolution so your comparison to Series X makes very little sense. They don't have the same workload.

Secondly but more importantly, a win here is still a loss in general. The fact that a game that looks this poor is running at 720p on the series x is an embarrassment.

A competent developer with a competent engine would have this running at near 4k on the X.

 

[Karim]

Ps5 pro runs at a higher resolution so your comparison to Series X makes very little sense. They don't have the same workload.

Secondly but more importantly, a win here is still a loss in general. The fact that a game that looks this poor is running at 720p on the series x is an embarrassment.

A competent developer with a competent engine would have this running at near 4k on the X.

Imagine call a beast an hardware because handle better the fps at 720p meanwhile adds specular noise on the texture with such IQ...

 

[adamsapple]

He is posting all kinds of comparisons from DF.

It happens after every couple of DF threads. The content of the video becomes irrelevant and people start attacking the topic maker.

 

[Bojji]

Imagine call a beast an hardware because handle better the fps at 720p meanwhile adds specular noise on the texture with such IQ...

Yet, it can handle that 720p in 60fps while PS5 goes to 50FPS - 720p is too much...

 

[Hyper_hyper]

It happens after every couple of DF threads. The content of the video becomes irrelevant and people start attacking the topic maker.

I'm really curios why is that. :/

 

[subzero83]

Yet, it can handle that 720p in 60fps while PS5 goes to 50FPS - 720p is too much...

Don't most games run better on ps5 ? i stopped following cause its always so close that its hardly a notable difference in most games.

 

[Bojji]

Don't most games run better on ps5 ? i stopped following cause its always so close that its hardly a notable difference in most games.

I have no idea. When it comes to UE5 games most of the time Xbox has some advantages (better framerate, resolution or both). For other engines/games it differs, many Japanese games run better on PS5 for example. Someone was making spreadsheets with PS5/Xbox "wins" but I don't have any links to them...

In reality differences are usually small compared to what we had last gen (PS4>X1, X1X>PS4Pro) and in PS360 era.

 

[adamsapple]

Don't most games run better on ps5 ? i stopped following cause its always so close that its hardly a notable difference in most games.

Not really, no. There are odds and ends here and there but more recent games, especially if they're UE5 based, tend to be slightly better on SX.

This game is a bigger example than most where SX is even outperforming the PS5 Pro by up to 10,15 fps in places.

 

[subzero83]

I have no idea. When it comes to UE5 games most of the time Xbox has some advantages (better framerate, resolution or both). For other engines/games it differs, many Japanese games run better on PS5 for example. Someone was making spreadsheets with PS5/Xbox "wins" but I don't have any links to them...

In reality differences are usually small compared to what we had last gen (PS4>X1, X1X>PS4Pro) and in PS360 era.

Yea 360 was running most games so much better than ps3 . ps4 also had a nice advantage but not as big as 360 vs ps3. This gen is the closest ever.

 

[subzero83]

Not really, no. There are odds and ends here and there but more recent games, especially if they're UE5 based, tend to be slightly better on SX.

This game is a bigger example than most where SX is even outperforming the PS5 Pro by up to 10,15 fps in places.

I mean this game is by a small developer that won't even do a million units probably, so not the most talented developers to judge a system power advantage from, for the majority of games it's basically the same results with sometimes better fps on ps5 or slightly better resolution on series x too close for a meaningful difference.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

720p generation

 

[subzero83]

720p generation

Yea the only saving grace is 60fps otherwise the graphical jump this gen has been very small.

 

[skyfinch]

Like a caterpillar busting down the spine, and out erupts a beautiful butterfly, the Series X is starting to show its wings!

 

[adamsapple]

I mean this game is by a small developer that won't even do a million units probably, so not the most talented developers to judge a system power advantage from, for the majority of games it's basically the same results with sometimes better fps on ps5 or slightly better resolution on series x too close for a meaningful difference.

That's fine. It's just an example of a small developer using the most ubiquitous game engine.