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[Baki]

PSVR2 failed because it was wired VR headset in a world where wireless was expected. PS6-VR won't have those problems. As we know from MLID and K KeplerL2 , Sony is developing 2 SoCs for the PlayStation 6.

"Canis" a Handheld SoC with these specs:

• 6 core CPU (4x Zen6c for games, 2x Zen6 LP for OS)
• 16-20 RDNA5 CUs
• 24GB Ram (230GB/s)
• Raster is 0.55-0.75 PS5, RT is 1.3x-2.6x PS5

"Orion" the home console with 9-10 cores, 54 CUs, 30GB GDDR7 ram.

But before we get into why "Canis" specs matter, we need address why Sony would even bother with VR again. It comes down to 3 simple things:

• Quest has proven there's a $2B/year software market for VR gaming (for comparison, PSN brings in about $15B)
• R&D cost for Sony to jump back in would be minimal, as "Canis" is already a portable SOC and R&D for VR continues to be done by Sony Electronics
• Unifying development pipeline means support should be straightforward, play flat games on a personal screen or VR adapted games

When you look at all 3 factors, it points to 1 thing, PSVR3 can be niche and still be a good money maker for Sony, with very little financial risk.

So how does it work with the "Canis" SOC.

• Acoustic sensors in the headset, combined with cameras, to do tracking with minimal CPU overhead on 1 of the 2 Zen6 LP cores
• Foveated rendering using Sony IMX500 sensors to keep compute costs low, and allowing Sony to deliver an upscaled 90-120FPS 2K image per eye
• Exact same SOC as PS6 Portable means it plays all these games natively and offers easy conversions for devs to make hybrid VR games

How much will it cost and when will it launch?

Think Sony will go with PS6 being a "family" of consoles with a wide range of ways to play:

• Portable, i.e. The DadStation ($499)
• Home Console i.e. The mainstream device ($549)
• PS6-VR i.e. the portable cinema experience ($549)

All sharing 1 games library. All launching in 2027.

 

[J Required]

What's with all the prediction threads showing up every day lately?

 

[viveks86]

 

[cafecat]

VR market is too small, also not many content comparing to no-VR market.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Those prices...

 

[Hudo]

ANYONE REMEMBER PSVR2?

 

[Jesb]

Why would they invest in VR when they let it die on PS5

 

[bitbydeath]

What's with all the prediction threads showing up every day lately?

I have a prediction for that.

 

[ergem]

Or, make it modular.

The VR headset holds everything including the battery except the processing power itself (Cannis APU and other components).

The handheld is also modular. There will be a PS Portal 2 with a slot or latch at the back where the Cannis APU and other components can be slotted or attached.

Cannis APU, memory and all other components needed for processing the game becomes its own thing. Sort of a mini PS6 console capable of playing PS5 games and some PS6 games.

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

I don't understand how someone can think that PSVR has a future. Sony makes no games for it, they said it sold 600k after 6 weeks but no updates since and they even had to stop production at one point. It's a massive flop.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

I don't understand how someone can think that PSVR has a future. Sony makes no games for it, they said it sold 600k after 6 weeks but no updates since and they even had to stop production at one point. It's a massive flop.

The same reason why Microsoft continues to make Xbox consoles even though its a major flop...

 

[Three]

ANYONE REMEMBER PSVR2?

Yes it sells more than the Legion Go. Do you remember the Legion Go? These devices are a small market but still alive and well.

I don't understand how someone can think that PSVR has a future. Sony makes no games for it, they said it sold 600k after 6 weeks but no updates since and they even had to stop production at one point. It's a massive flop.

Valve makes no games for Index either yet it exists, and has a future with the Steam Frame. Sony made more games for PSVR2 than Valve did for index and they will likely make another headset in the future too.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The sad thing about VR, is that its true killer app isn't and won't even be gaming.

And that's why it still hasn't truly taken off...

sports and porn. Remember, I said it

 

[Physiognomonics]

Ryan killed VR once he got there in 2020. It's over.

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

Valve makes no games for Index either yet it exists, and has a future with the Steam Frame. Sony made more games for PSVR2 than Valve did for index and they will likely make another headset in the future too.

Fortunately for Valve the game they made is more relevant than the entire PSVR lineup put together. And also I have no doubt that their next projects will be playable on VR. Sony is just done.

 

[lh032]

enough with VR.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Think Sony will go with PS6 being a "family" of consoles with a wide range of ways to play:

• Portable, i.e. The DadStation ($499)
• Home Console i.e. The mainstream device ($549)
• PS6-VR i.e. the portable cinema experience ($549)

All sharing 1 games library. All launching in 2027.

Oh my sweet summer child.

 

[Throttle]

I hope there is a psvr3, but if it has an soc it will be a simple one just to function like a steam frame, while running from ps6 or pc.

 

[squallbr]

30GB ram ........with que CRYSIS...I doubt, with lucky PS6 will have 24GB, maybe GDDR6X for the cost saving

 

[Radical_3d]

Needs another option: No, it's cheaper and therefore safer to develop dumb headsets that are but a receiver. Like PS Portal. Safe bets that orbit around the main product.

Also yes, VR is dead.

 

[_oni_]

I really doubt it, an ARM processor makes more sense for a VR headset

 

[Three]

Fortunately for Valve the game they made is more relevant than the entire PSVR lineup put together. And also I have no doubt that their next projects will be playable on VR. Sony is just done.

Not really, I'd wager both GT7 and prior Astrobot sold more and I wouldn't be surprised if Horizon call of the mountain did too with the PSVR2 bundles.

As we know from MLID and K KeplerL2 , Sony is developing 2 SoCs for the PlayStation 6.

"Canis" a Handheld SoC with these specs:

• 6 core CPU (4x Zen6c for games, 2x Zen6 LP for OS)
• 16-20 RDNA5 CUs
• 24GB Ram (230GB/s)
• Raster is 0.55-0.75 PS5, RT is 1.3x-2.6x PS5

"Orion" the home console with 9-10 cores, 54 CUs, 30GB GDDR7 ram.

But before we get into why "Canis" specs matter, we need address why Sony would even bother with VR again. It comes down to 3 simple things:

• Quest has proven there's a $2B/year software market for VR gaming (for comparison, PSN brings in about $15B)
• R&D cost for Sony to jump back in would be minimal, as "Canis" is already a portable SOC and R&D for VR continues to be done by Sony Electronics
• Unifying development pipeline means support should be straightforward, play flat games on a personal screen or VR adapted games

When you look at all 3 factors, it points to 1 thing, PSVR3 can be niche and still be a good money maker for Sony, with very little financial risk.

So how does it work with the "Canis" SOC.

• Acoustic sensors in the headset, combined with cameras, to do tracking with minimal CPU overhead on 1 of the 2 Zen6 LP cores
• Foveated rendering using Sony IMX500 sensors to keep compute costs low, and allowing Sony to deliver an upscaled 90-120FPS 2K image per eye
• Exact same SOC as PS6 Portable means it plays all these games natively and offers easy conversions for devs to make hybrid VR games

How much will it cost and when will it launch?

Think Sony will go with PS6 being a "family" of consoles with a wide range of ways to play:

• Portable, i.e. The DadStation ($499)
• Home Console i.e. The mainstream device ($549)
• PS6-VR i.e. the portable cinema experience ($549)

All sharing 1 games library. All launching in 2027.

It's a tough one to predict. It all depends on what they lean into in terms of target audience if they ever do this.

If they lean into the mainstream and what you call the "portable cinema experience" I can see them going with a standalone built in SoC but they face tough competition from Quest on that front. They're more likely to target the enthusiast PS/PC crowd and go for one without Canis though. The third option is one where the handheld device itself fits into lenses for the mainstream to keep the cost of the thing down while maintaining VR support.

 

[GymWolf]

Sony still wasting money on vr in the nextgen is not on my bingo card but they have been dumb as fuck this gen so who knows...

 

[Loomy]

I would be very surprised if Sony releases another VR headset.

Depending on how Valve prices their new one, and depending on how/if that increases the amount of investment in VR games I guess, but it's not looking good right now.

 

[Three]

Sony still wasting money on vr in the nextgen is not on my bingo card but they have been dumb as fuck this gen so who knows...

It's just a PS/PC peripheral device. It's not really a waste of money if the device is sold to make money. Just like they're not "wasting money" on Dualsense Edge, or Portal. It's making money otherwise they wouldn't be selling them.

 

[TrebleShot]

The Handheld will be 700 the console 1k if there is a headset it would he around 700 also.
Ansolute dream land if you think your prices are accurate.

And at those prices all will sell out day 1. people love gadgets.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Launching in 2027? I'm sure I saw a thread this week saying that Sony are almost definitely going to be extending this generation due to hardware prices.

 

[Ozriel]

Not really, I'd wager both GT7 and prior Astrobot sold more and I wouldn't be surprised if Horizon call of the mountain did too with the PSVR2 bundles.

All three estimation methods on Steamdb puts Half life Alyx at 3+ million units sold.

It's not even certain if Sony has sold over 3 million units of PSVR2.

You seriously can't attribute the bulk of GT7s sales to VR. And there's no Astrobot VR for PSVR2.

 

[Hudo]

Yes it sells more than the Legion Go. Do you remember the Legion Go? These devices are a small market but still alive and well.

So why doesn't Sony remember the PSVR2? Where is the software support? And sorry, but selling more as the Legion Go is a really low bar.

 

[crackajack]

VR is dead. VR-too would have been its only chance but only Capcom did that while Sony had only GT.

 

[Ozriel]

Yes it sells more than the Legion Go. Do you remember the Legion Go? These devices are a small market but still alive and well.

Legion Go is designed to sell at a profit. Same way Lenovo approaches their laptops too.

Sony's business model for PSVR was to sell with razor thin margins, then make money via software.

They've had to discount and subsidize to move units after sales stalled. It's probably not the best business model for them.

 

[Three]

All three estimation methods on Steamdb puts Half life Alyx at 3+ million units sold.

It's not even certain if Sony has sold over 3 million units of PSVR2.

You seriously can't attribute the bulk of GT7s sales to VR. And there's no Astrobot VR for PSVR2.

Estimates for steamdb kind of suck especially for Valve published games but you're right, it's unknown whether PSVR2 has sold more than 3M (it's likely around that). so now I would be surprised, it is unlikely that H:COTM has outsold it because it would be a percentage of that. he said that Alyx is more relevant than the entire Sony PSVR lineup though. You don't know how much of GT7 you can attribute to VR support but the entire lineup of VR games is definitely more relevant in terms of sales. Astrobot, GT7, and Horizon is an actual reason to buy PSVR and more relevant than a single game. This is before you even start to talk about things like REVillage or RE4R exclusives.

The More pertinent thing you can't do is attribute Alyx to Valve index/frame sales. Alyx selling doesn't mean Index or Frame do better. PSVR is the second most popular VR headset after the Quests. The popularity of Alyx wouldn't even translate to greater likelihood of a new Valve headset because you can play Alyx on a PSVR2 even. The lineup that can be played only on a PSVR2 is greater and you can directly attribute that to things like Astrobot or H:COTM sales.

Saying "I don't understand how someone can think that PSVR has a future. Sony makes no games for it" is just plain silly because they made more games for it than Valve do and they even tied those games to PSVR only. If exclusive first party games were an indication of a headsets successor then PSVR is miles ahead.

 

[KungFucius]

Or, make it modular.

The VR headset holds everything including the battery except the processing power itself (Cannis APU and other components).

The handheld is also modular. There will be a PS Portal 2 with a slot or latch at the back where the Cannis APU and other components can be slotted or attached.

Cannis APU, memory and all other components needed for processing the game becomes its own thing. Sort of a mini PS6 console capable of playing PS5 games and some PS6 games.

I was going to suggest something similar. Portable by itself. Portable slots into VR system, Portable has vanilla dock and pro dock, but your idea works too and has benefits. Instead of the portable screen (Switch) component docking in the other options, the screen is separate and that gives you a portal like option and possibly the ability to have more than one of those linked to a system. They could even upgrade the Pro Dock periodically to squeeze more out of the system and their customers.

I wonder if they actually went through this kind of tradeoff study. Honestly I'd buy it for the cool factor alone. One added idea that would be nuts and I am only dreaming, jack the base computing unit into a PC with a high bandwidth USB connection, and run the games through your XX90 GPU. The Compute unit is just an HDD, I/O and authorization. Maybe this needs a special PCIEx card. Again, just fantasy, but playing anywhere and anyhow is something I really want as it makes family gaming easier.

 

[Three]

So why doesn't Sony remember the PSVR2? Where is the software support? And sorry, but selling more as the Legion Go is a really low bar.

Does Valve make Steamdeck games? Do they make Index games? does Lenovo make Legion Go games? PSVR2 is a peripheral. It doesn't rely solely on first party stuff to be "remembered" though it has more of those than most headsets too bar maybe Quest.

 

[PeteBull]

If we get stationary ps6 in 2027 despite ram shortages it will cost 999$ discless, handheld depending on specs could be minimum 600, if sony somehow delays those mashines to 2030 and ramshortages vanish, then yeh we could expect handheld at 500 and stationary console around 800$ maybe?

 

[Hudo]

Does Valve make Steamdeck games? Do they make Index games? does Lenovo make Legion Go games? PSVR2 is a peripheral. It doesn't rely solely on first party stuff to be "remembered" though it has more of those than most headsets too bar maybe Quest.

Steam is not a closed platform though. You can play non-Steam games on PC. You can play non-Steam games on a Valve Index. You can play non-Steam games on a Steam Deck (it's ironically one of the Deck's prime use cases: Emulation). And they did games for Steam Deck and also for their VR stuff. Half-Life Alyx is still one of the very few "lighthouse" games for VR.

 

[GoldenEye98]

Imagine thinking there is gonna be a PSVR3....

 

[asdasdasdbb]

It's VOver.

 

[Moses85]

ANYONE REMEMBER PSVR2?

AND

 

[yogaflame]

Yes please. Anything about VR excites me. VR for me, is the real future of gaming. Ryan and Hults sucks they neglected it.

 

[poppabk]

Where is the 'No - PSVR is dead' option.
A VR headset with a mobile chipset would require specially optimized or device specific games. Sony don't even put in the effort to add VR modes to their games for their current headest.

 

[Baki]

Oh my sweet summer child.

Haha. All depends on RAM prices. The SoCs for Canis, and Orion are much smaller than PS5 and Series S, on a mature-ish 3nm node in 2027. The SoCs will be cheaper than what they spent on the PS5 in 2020. If Ram prices come down to sane levels or remain where they are right now, those prices are totally feasible.

Not really, I'd wager both GT7 and prior Astrobot sold more and I wouldn't be surprised if Horizon call of the mountain did too with the PSVR2 bundles.

It's a tough one to predict. It all depends on what they lean into in terms of target audience if they ever do this.

If they lean into the mainstream and what you call the "portable cinema experience" I can see them going with a standalone built in SoC but they face tough competition from Quest on that front. They're more likely to target the enthusiast PS/PC crowd and go for one without Canis though. The third option is one where the handheld device itself fits into lenses for the mainstream to keep the cost of the thing down while maintaining VR support.

They leaned into the enthusiast crowd with PSVR2, hence the great reviews but the absolute shit sales. Enthusiast crowd, who are happy with a wired experience, is way too niche. There's a reason Valve is going for a standalone experience with Steam Frame. I think competing with Quest is fine, most VR developers will be multiplatform because the market is small, and more importantly PS6-VR, because it shares the same SOC as PS6-P, will receive all PS6 titles. There's going to be a pretty large segment of users that won't buy Quest because of Meta but would 100% be interested in PS6-VR because they're already PS owners.

 

[spookyfish]

Sorry, I'm not buying another Sony VR headset. Not happening.

George Dubya: "Fool me the third time shame on all you motherf ckers." Or something like that.

 

[Bitstream]

1/3rd of all game devs were all laid off last year. Meta closed down their game studios. Sony has publicly stated that you can't expect more than one game a year from them. Global economy is in shambles.

At this rate we'll be lucky if we get a PS6 at all. VR is dead.

 

[RedC]

Shu Yoshida stated the following on a podcast recently:

8) Shu's "future of PSVR" take (what he can say and what he won't)

8.1 He won't predict PSVR3 / PS6 VR strategy

• He says:
  • He doesn't know their plans.
  • It's up to how they design PS6.
• He zooms out:
  • Console makers are in a weird spot: graphics are saturating, differences are harder to see unless side-by-side.
  • People love low-fidelity games when gameplay is great (indies as proof).
• He praises Sony's hardware team as top-notch:
  • Even if it's hard to make "meaningful" leaps, they will engineer excellent hardware.

8.2 He does expect Sony to keep VR R&D alive

• He says:
  • Hardware teams know if they stop working in a field, they'll fall behind.
  • So whether or not Sony makes PSVR3, he expects ongoing R&D in:
    • Tracking
    • Optics
    • Display
• He mentions Sony HQ also working on creator-focused headsets/tools (separate track from consumer PSVR).

NeoGAF translation: even if PSVR3 isn't guaranteed, Sony staying involved in XR tech is basically inevitable.

 

[yogaflame]

Love it or hate it, but VR is the true future of gaming, not flat screen. And it opens up to more innovation and immersion. I just hope its more cheaper, wireless, easier to use, lighter and not clunky and big.

And I hope games can be easily be updated by devs to add VR feature and that means better dev kits with much easier VR feature can be added.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Sony doesn't even care about VR. I'm convinced PSVR2 exists only because Sony were hedging their bets. They needed to have a product ready just in case VR became the big new thing and they needed to compete against Meta.

They sure as hell aren't trying to push the adoption of VR.

 

[Bitstream]

Love it or hate it, but VR is the true future of gaming, not flat screen. And it opens up to more innovation and immersion. I just hope its more cheaper, wireless, easier to use, lighter and not clunky and big.

And I hope games can be easily be updated by devs to add VR feature and that means better dev kits with much easier VR feature can be added.

This is complete delusion. VR isn't the 'future' of anything. VR has been fully capable since oculus rift and PSVR1 came out in 2016. In 10 years VR didn't gain any traction at all. If VR is anything, it's the past.

Next you're going to tell me that Plasma TVs and Blockchain are the future.


But don't let my negative comments confuse you, I have a PSVR2, Quest 3, and will also be getting the new valve headset depending on the price.

But none of that changes the fact that nearly 10 years after VR was available for people, very few regular people give a fuck about it at all.

 

[yogaflame]

This is complete delusion. VR isn't the 'future' of anything. VR has been fully capable since oculus rift and PSVR1 came out in 2016. In 10 years VR didn't gain any traction at all. If VR is anything, it's the past.

Next you're going to tell me that Plasma TVs and Blockchain are the future.


But don't let my negative comments confuse you, I have a PSVR2, Quest 3, and will also be getting the new valve headset depending on the price.

But none of that changes the fact that nearly 10 years after VR was available for people, very few regular people give a fuck about it at all.

 

[Three]

Steam is not a closed platform though. You can play non-Steam games on PC. You can play non-Steam games on a Valve Index. You can play non-Steam games on a Steam Deck (it's ironically one of the Deck's prime use cases: Emulation). And they did games for Steam Deck and also for their VR stuff. Half-Life Alyx is still one of the very few "lighthouse" games for VR.

Neither is a PSVR2. You can use it on PS and PC with any game.