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[DonkeyPunchJr]

Comparisons to Concord didn't feel great, says ex Marathon art director, but "as much as the haters try online ... you can't take the thing I care about the most"

Marathon's certainly got style

www.gamesradar.com

"And you can't take that away from me, as much as the haters try online or wherever, and whether someone doesn't happen to like the art direction personally, whether they don't agree with some political thing Bungie did, or whatever the animosity du jour is, you can't take the thing I care about the most away."

I'm not the game director. I can only control what I can control, and what I could control, I feel really good about.

Cross likens Bungie's position – ending up in the shadow of an unrelated but somewhat similar and unfortunate project – to bad luck. "It feels like losing a lottery ticket or being in the wrong place at the wrong time," he says. "And that stuff never feels personal, you know?"

The most telling quote of all:

"You know, oftentimes we felt like we were sort of getting away with something. And I think about that in the big picture, the idea of studios funding unproven, unknown projects for six or eight years, for hundreds of millions of dollars, sort of on spec. How much longer are things like this going to exist?" he wonders.

 

[Skifi28]

People wishing for the game to be the next Concord instead of hoping it's not has certainly been interesting.

 

[Steve Holt]

This was worth a new thread?

 

[BennyBlanco]

The next Concord is Highguard. This will actually be Concord 3.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Damn, that telling quote is wild. Basically admitting to just burning cash.

Gaming has deffo been getting a wake up call overr the last few years.

 

[Lokaum D+]

 

[Punished Miku]

The studio is not making any money. And so anyway, that's a big one, especially when you're really trying to channel creativity and get to the point where you feel like you can't impose anything that feels like a risk."

Candid interview. Basically explains exactly why AAA gaming is risk averse, safe, straight from the horses mouth. Nothing we didn't know already, but there it is.

 

[Froggo]

Toxic positivity alive and well with these idiots. Every interview with ex Concord devs always goes like this.

'We didn't do anything wrong. It's the online trolls that killed the game.'

Also saying that Concord was in any way risky is hilarious. It was the safest, blandest thing possible.

 

[winjer]

 

[Gripsx]

it is the most risky game ive seen in a while from AAA, and im all for it.

 

[calico]

"And you can't take that away from me, as much as the haters try online or wherever, and whether someone doesn't happen to like the art direction personally, whether they don't agree with some political thing Bungie did, or whatever the animosity du jour is, you can't take the thing I care about the most away."

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Damn, that telling quote is wild. Basically admitting to just burning cash.

Gaming has deffo been getting a wake up call overr the last few years.

Yeah I thought that was the most interesting part. "Felt like we were getting away with something" yeah no shit. I would also feel that way if my company got bought for way too much money, and I was working from home, making big money, on a huge team, on a project that's been in development for the better part of a decade. #1 thing on my mind would be wondering how much longer that could possibly last.

Toxic positivity alive and well with these idiots. Every interview with ex Concord devs always goes like this.

'We didn't do anything wrong. It's the online trolls that killed the game.'

Also saying that Concord was in any way risky is hilarious. It was the safest, blandest thing possible.

Yeah I don't get how you can work on a game for ~6 years, only to get surprised by the negative reception. There is something seriously wrong with your company culture if that happens.

I'll give them credit for at least delaying the game to address the criticism. That might be what saves it from being another Concord. We will see.

 

[ReBurn]

This was worth a new thread?

It's ok they're free

 

[adamsapple]

"And you can't take that away from me, as much as the haters try online or wherever, and whether someone doesn't happen to like the art direction personally, whether they don't agree with some political thing Bungie did, or whatever the animosity du jour is, you can't take the thing I care about the most away."

People making perceived comparisons with Concord aren't "taking anything away" from you. It will only feel that way if you, Mr. Art Director, takes these comparisons personally.

 

[666]

 

[Fake]

Professor?

 

[flying_sq]

I just don't like these games, the whole extraction, or BR FPS genre. I feel like they're boring and a time sink made to get you addicted. I'm kind of disappointed in this game because I would love a new Marathon single player game instead. I don't want it to fail, I just don't care about it at all.

 

[Trilobit]

The next Concord is Highguard. This will actually be Concord 3.

And all I want is Kongbard.

 

[Saber]

I find funny some people trying hard with "See? This is not a Concord!".

I mean...is that even something to boast about? Beating Concord is putting a bar absurdly low lmao

I also like the coping of this man. "Doesn't matter haters, this thing is MY product. Mine! My own!1!"

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

"Haters"...

Checks out. Everytime someone uses that word to dismiss criticism you know is someone that likes to eat shit on purpose... Also, pronouns duh

For the sake of gaming, marathon must flop

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I find funny some people trying hard with "See? This is not a Concord!".

I mean...is that even something to boast about?

We're not boasting that it's not the next Concord.

We're clowning on people who were sure it was going to be the next Concord.

 

[Saber]

We're not boasting that it's not the next Concord.

We're clowning on people who were sure it was going to be the next Concord.

Seems like boasting lmao

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Seems like boasting lmao

That'll start in March. Check back in after the 5th.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I find funny some people trying hard with "See? This is not a Concord!".

That statement in itself is a response to someone saying that something is like Concord......................so the people responding are not the ones who started the comparison.

An example is like a person claiming a sports team is trash and won't win x number of games, and when proven wrong another person calls it out. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Saber]

That statement in itself is a response to someone saying that something is like Concord......................so the people responding are not the ones who started the comparison.

Theres a vast difference between stating is not a Concord and being like "Aha! This not a Concord, take that haterz" like its some of win or something.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Theres a vast difference between stating is not a Concord and being like "Aha! This not a Concord, take that haterz" like its some of win or something.

It's still a response to idiocrasy, and people not waiting to see how a game will turn out.
Besides, there are just as many people going,
"lol Concord 2"
'DOA"
"GaaS Trash".

And then, when they energy is directed back at trolls, its calm down, it's not a win. It's giving dish it out, but can't take it energy....

 

[violence]

Wait, wait wait. I'm not following. People were comparing the art styles of Marathon and Concord and that didn't feel great to him? Frankly, even comparing them is an insult to marathons art style (plagiarism aside).

Edit: Ex-marathon art director. Never mind.

 

[KyoZz]

That'll start in March. Check back in after the 5th.

Marathon will do 500k amaright?
Like Arc Raiders

 

[Faltherion]

This was worth a new thread?

This was worth a post ?

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

"Haters"...

Checks out. Everytime someone uses that word to dismiss criticism you know is someone that likes to eat shit on purpose... Also, pronouns duh

For the sake of gaming, marathon must flop

Maybe instead of calling people "haters", they need to bring more haters into their company and encourage frank, constructive criticism. Then they wouldn't have been taken by surprise at the negative reception and forced to delay the game.

 

[Saber]

It's still a response to idiocrasy, and people not waiting to see how a game will turn out.

Same could be said about people vangloring this game without even seeing how the game will end up. At this point this is no different from toxic positivity.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Marathon will do 500k amaright?
Like Arc Raiders

Have we ever seen hater goalposts move from "It's DOA" to "It has to be bigger than the biggest new IP of the generation"?

Bungie cooked these clowns.

 

[Saber]

Wait, wait wait. I'm not following. People were comparing the art styles of Marathon and Concord and that didn't feel great to him? Frankly, even comparing them is an insult to marathons art style (plagiarism aside).

It wasn't about the artstyle. People compared Concord to Marathon in a sense that "its gonna be dead on arrival", similar to what happened to Concord.

 

[calico]

Jury's out on whether it will be the next Concord. Visually it's worse, but maybe it will play better?

 

[KyoZz]

Have we ever seen hater goalposts move from "It's DOA" to "It has to be bigger than the biggest new IP of the generation"?

Bungie cooked these clowns.

I'm just pointing out that you're wrong 99% of the time, that's all.

I hope it's successful (I don't think it will be but that's just me), so you have a good game to enjoy.

 

[grvg]

The thing is that marathon as a gaas IS essentially a new ip, similar to prey 2016. The DNA of the game is entirely different and the use of Marathon as the title feels like an unprincipled Trojan horse used only for name recognition.

That being said, I don't wish this game to be a catastrophe. I'm holding out those hopes for much bigger games.

People have learned in the last few years that big names crashing and burning in a horrific manner can sometimes be much more interesting and fun than a mid game releasing semi successfully.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Probably a good thing it was delayed then as the game looks and plays much better than it did closer to its original launch date

Listening to your players might have just stopped another Concord from happening

Have we ever seen hater goalposts move from "It's DOA" to "It has to be bigger than the biggest new IP of the generation"?

Bungie cooked these clowns.

Bungie listening to feedback was the best thing they did for this game.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Have we ever seen hater goalposts move from "It's DOA" to "It has to be bigger than the biggest new IP of the generation"?

Bungie cooked these clowns.

A. Celebrating a little early aren't we?
B:

 

[Holammer]

People enjoy a shit show.
IMO the *real* son of Concord will be Fairgame$, Marathon is but a pretender. It's been in development since 2021 and there's been radio silence about it since they showed it in may 2023 and people laughed them out of the room. Couple of months and it's been 3 years with no real news except for the studio founder leaving the company.

I wonder if they're actually retooling the setting (doubtful)? I reckon it could be saved if they put some old dirty career criminals and goons in there instead of the gen-z caricatures.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'm just pointing out that you're wrong 99% of the time, that's all.

I'm sure this claim is backed by really compelling data, lol

 

[SJRB]

They burnt "hundreds of millions of dollars" on this fucking thing.

Let that sink in for a moment.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It wasn't about the artstyle. People compared Concord to Marathon in a sense that "its gonna be dead on arrival", similar to what happened to Concord.

There were lots of Concord parallels. It's a live service game made by a studio that Sony acquired for way too much money, long in development, big budget, has an art style that lots of people find unappealing, releasing into a crowded market, and that got poor reception during its public play test.

No the art style doesn't look anything alike at all. And just maybe the delay will prevent it from being DOA like Concord was, we shall see.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Bungie listening to feedback was the best thing they did for this game.

Here's the lesson though:

Bungie has been doing tons of, not so secret playtests with various groups for the last few years (probably more). A number of those groups were negative on the game. The famous one being "Apparently a group of Tarkov players were asked if they'd play Marathon instead and no one raised their hands."

That resulted in wave after wave of "Bungie is cooked. Just cancel Marathon already. Jim Ryan got fired" by the online mob.

The playtests were treated as a review of sorts for the online mob, when in reality it was just Bungie wanting getting player feedback.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Same could be said about people vangloring this game without even seeing how the game will end up. At this point this is no different from toxic positivity.

I'm sorry, but this is dumb. Assuming you're talking about Marathon, that game has been railroaded since the initial beta. Literally everyone hated it. Bungie delayed the game. Made a bunch of changes due to player feedback, had another closed beta with positive results and now a few people are going......."hey, it might turn out ok", and you relate that to toxic positivity because it interferes with the hate train the game has gotten? Come on dude.......you know that's bs.

With that logic, no game can ever get better and be stated that it got better because of "toxic positivity".

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

A. Celebrating a little early aren't we?

Extraction is this scene and some of you don't realize it yet...

This is a profound shift in how the public will come to see games.

 

[Emmy Ator Best]

Have we ever seen hater goalposts move from "It's DOA" to "It has to be bigger than the biggest new IP of the generation"?

Bungie cooked these clowns.

To you what would be an acceptable CCU number for Marathon at launch on Steam?

 

[Gonzito]

 

[Killer8]

People enjoy a shit show.
IMO the *real* son of Concord will be Fairgame$, Marathon is but a pretender. It's been in development since 2021 and there's been radio silence about it since they showed it in may 2023 and people laughed them out of the room. Couple of months and it's been 3 years with no real news except for the studio founder leaving the company.

I wonder if they're actually retooling the setting (doubtful)? I reckon it could be saved if they put some old dirty career criminals and goons in there instead of the gen-z caricatures.

Fairgame$ will probably (hopefully) be cancelled before it sees the light of day.

Marathon actually looks great and has done for the last few months. The delay has helped the look of the game tremendously. Now that people are actually able to judge it properly in the vidocs on Youtube and not some 360p stream from a Chinese server farm, you can see the dislikes slowly eroding.

Spoiler:

There will always be a hold out of bitter critters but they are now firmly in the minority.

This was Concord at release, it did not imporve its fortunes over time like Marathon has done:

Fairgame$ must be cancelled because it's following the same unrecoverable trajectory.

Some ideas are just dead on arrival:

Marathon is better explained as a game people were really looking forward to but had a bumpy patch of development.

And anyone denying that first part can look at the announcement reception:

 

[diffusionx]

We will probably never see a total failure like Concord ever again. Marathon could flop and still chug on for a year and it won't be another Concord.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is what happens when you were never told no in life.

Instead of pissing and moaning, you could've taken that constructive criticism and turned it into a positive.

You are selling a product to the masses, not painting a chapel.