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[ChiefDada]

Guerrilla Games' first PS5 only release is coming next month! HFW Burning Shores will arrive on April 19, and I thought it would be fun to speculate/discuss some of the new tech we might see in the DLC. I was thinking today about how much they were able to accomplish with the PS5 version of Forbidden West, despite the fact that it was a cross-gen game; many people believe it is the best looking game to date. That got me thinking about just how far one of the most skilled studios on the planet can push fidelity and immersion from a tech perspective now that The 5 is the Limit

So what do you all think? Will HFW Burning Shores blow our collective minds and become the new benchmark for what is possible on current gen hardware? Or will it be a technical bore leaving much to be desired? Vote in the polls!

Finally, list some new tech features you hope GG implements. Here are my most desired features/tech improvements:

1. ZERO/undetectable pop-in:

HFW LOD management was by far my biggest gripe with the game, tech wise. When I am riding on a Sunwing, it kills me to see machines and plant life pop in out of nowhere as I traverse. I hope to God the subpar LOD system was a holdover from PS4

2. Current-gen worthy lighting:

I don't necessarily need ray tracing (although that would be nice), I just want a vastly improved and seamless lighting system that, again, significantly reduces breaks in immersion. This was especially problematic in HFW with the transition from outdoor to indoor environments and vice versa. TLOU Pt. 1 is a great example of what can be accomplished sans ray tracing.

3. Reworked combat collision physics and explosion VFX:

I lumped these two together since they often occur during the same scenarios. Whenever an enemy or machine strikes Aloy she falls/stumbles in a manner inconsistent with real-world physics, making her feel weightless. And as far as explosion and particle vfx, not even close to good enough for any current gen game, let alone from one of Sony's premier studios.

Credit M Musilla with the sexy ass GIF scooped from the announcement thread.

 

[Three]

Would there even be engine work for a DLC? HFW is still one of the best looking games around.

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

It's getting late, I read guerilla games first FPS ps5-only game was being released in april and I was googling that shit up

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I think minor upgrades over the base game.

 

[Rentahamster]

I would be more okay with cross-gen games early in the life cycle of a new console if more of them did current-gen exclusive DLC that includes a revamp of the game to take advantage of the new hardware.

 

[consoul]

It's DLC for an existing cross-gen game.

It'd be fucking weird if it didn't look like the rest of the game does tbh.

 

[Fredrik]

Thanks for reminding me that I need to finish HFW! Still haven’t reached the waters and seen the awesome water tech shown in some gifs during the GOTY votings.

 

[ChiefDada]

Would there even be engine work for a DLC? HFW is still one of the best looking games around.

Considering the improvement of the Decima Engine from Zero Dawn to Frozen Wilds occurred within the same generation and was enough of a leap for DF/Eurogamer to go goo-goo gaga over it, I think there's a great chance the Decima Engine could see some dramatic improvements for PS5. Also, GG developers discussed a while back how there was tech in the PS5 that they would have liked to use for HFW but couldn't because it would have excluded PS4.

 

[ChiefDada]

It's DLC for an existing cross-gen game.

It'd be fucking weird if it didn't look like the rest of the game does tbh.

It's PS5 only, so it would be weird if it did. Also this from the developer:

To achieve this grand vision technically and creatively, we’ve made the difficult decision to focus all our efforts on making an incredible experience exclusively for the PlayStation®5 console.

 

[akaFullmetal]

I do expect improvements, just not sure how much over the base game. I mean it's already one of the best looking games this gen.

 

[nightmare-slain]

It's DLC for an existing cross-gen game.

It'd be fucking weird if it didn't look like the rest of the game does tbh.

It's not unheard of for expansions/DLC to offer engine enhancements. The first one that came to mind was The Witcher 3. Blood & Wine had an updated engine and graphics. It didn't affect the base game or Hearts of Stone. Blood & Wine has its own map so everything new is contained to that.

Depends what the Horizon expansion is going to do. If it's only adding new stuff to the existing map then they might not make any major changes but if they are cutting out PS4 support there is still a chance the expansion could update the rest of the game but that seems like a lot of work.

 

[Vick]

Finally, list some new tech features you hope GG implements. Here are my most desired features/tech improvements:

1. ZERO/undetectable pop-in:

HFW LOD management was by far my biggest gripe with the game, tech wise. When I am riding on a Sunwing, it kills me to see machines and plant life pop in out of nowhere as I traverse. I hope to God the subpar LOD system was a holdover from PS4

2. Current-gen worthy lighting:

I don't necessarily need ray tracing (although that would be nice), I just want a vastly improved and seamless lighting system that, again, significantly reduces breaks in immersion. This was especially problematic in HFW with the transition from outdoor to indoor environments and vice versa. TLOU Pt. 1 is a great example of what can be accomplished sans ray tracing.

3. Reworked combat collision physics and explosion VFX:

I lumped these two together since they often occur during the same scenarios. Whenever an enemy or machine strikes Aloy she falls/stumbles in a manner inconsistent with real-world physics, making her feel weightless. And as far as explosion and particle vfx, not even close to good enough for any current gen game, let alone from one of Sony's premier studios.

Credit M Musilla with the sexy ass GIF scooped from the announcement thread.

I don't think you're going to get all you want from this. Especially the first two, on which I fully agree with you.. I just don't see it unless major reworking of Decima.
It's also technically incorrect saying it's entirely PS5 exclusive this time, as it's made from the same exact engine and will run on PC at some point in the near future.

But yeah, I have no doubt it will look insane regardless. And I'm also pretty damn excited as I loved Forbidden West.

TLOU Pt. 1 is a great example of what can be accomplished sans ray tracing.

No, it's not.
It's a linear game with static time of day.

Only dynamic lighting in TLOU comes from the flashlight (and it's arguably unparalleled at dynamic GI), not really a fitting example.
Unreal Engine 5 and its Matrix Awakens would be a great one.. but Decima ain't UE5.

 

[consoul]

It's PS5 only, so it would be weird if it did.

You're the one who made a poll where the only option that isn't "technical marvel and generation-defining moment" is "wonder why I need a PS5 for this".

Weird that you chose not to include the obvious option of "it'll look like the PS5 version of HFW does".

It's clear you're convinced it'll be the first option. I hope for your sake you're right, but personally I'm gonna keep my expectations more realistic.

 

[Boss Mog]

HFW on PS5 is still the best looking open world game despite being cross gen.

 

[remember_spinal]

it will be improved like how Frozen Wilds was on ps4.

Horizon is still one of the best looking games out (if not the best) i think the only thing that will give it a run this year is FF16 and Spider-Man 2

 

[Crayon]

It'll be a little better looking, thus the best looking game till spiderman 2.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

If Guerilla chose to drop PS4 support for Burning Shores, I’m guessing they are aiming to push their engine more than the base game.

By how much remains to be seen, but it’s going to be a looker for sure.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Minor upgrades over the base game is more likely because they wouldn't rebuilt the engine for a DLC and stray too far away from the game. That'd make development a lot longer.

Having said that, even extremely minor upgrades will make it the best-looking next-gen showcase currently available on the market. Horizon Forbidden West is still the best-looking game.

 

[Elder Legend]

Lol. Absolutely not, base game was made from the ground up for the PS4 and then a bit buffed up for PS5. All it is just DLC, there won't be any major upgrades to the engine or anything. You would have to wait for Horizon 3 for that.

 

[ChiefDada]

No, it's not.
It's a linear game with static time of day.

Ah yes, you're right about that. Well in that case I guess RT would be the only avenue for improvement? I'm excited to see what they come up with and happy we're just a bit over a month away.

Only dynamic lighting in TLOU comes from the flashlight (and it's arguably unparalleled at dynamic GI), not really a fitting example.
Unreal Engine 5 and its Matrix Awakens would be a great one.. but Decima ain't UE5.

Idk man I wouldn't right off Decima so quickly. I mean this is Guerilla Games we're talking about and I get the feeling they want to make a statement with their first PS5 software, regardless if it's just an expansion/DLC.

You're the one who made a poll where the only option that isn't "technical marvel and generation-defining moment" is "wonder why I need a PS5 for this".

Huh? I hope you don't think I was being sarcastic or attacking your opinion in any way. I truly think it would be weird for the DLC to look like indistinguishable from HFW.

Weird that you chose not to include the obvious option of "it'll look like the PS5 version of HFW does".

I intentionally made the two choices polar opposite and divisive in order to make the poll fun and engaging.

It's clear you're convinced it'll be the first option. I hope for your sake you're right, but personally I'm gonna keep my expectations more realistic.

Not necessarily convinced, but I am certainly highly optimistic because of the dev behind the project and what they were able to accomplish with cross-gen. Again, why would such an esteemed, tech centric developer make a current gen only game just for it to look like PS5 version of cross-gen HFW? They pride themselves on pushing visuals forward. It's what they're known for.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Maybe much faster flying mounts and then some additional visual upgrades. I'm not expecting anything massive but we'll see what happens.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I think minor upgrades over the base game.

This is what I'm thinking which means it'll still look amazing but not tap into the PS5's power too much just like Forbidden West

 

[Kerotan]

It will probably look the same but will let you fly some bird around the map as a mount or some shit the base ps4 can't handle.

 

[ChiefDada]

Maybe much faster flying mounts and then some additional visual upgrades. I'm not expecting anything massive but we'll see what happens.

That would be massive and scream current gen imo. Think about it - faster traversal means a solution has to be in place for LOD/pop-in. The closest thing we've had to what we're discussing is the initial PS5 demo during the flying sequence.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Fighting against the Metal Devil on a flying Sunwing will make it truly next-gen. I think that's the reason they had to drop the PS4.

 

[Vick]

HFW on PS5 is still the best looking open world game despite being cross gen.

It's the best looking open world game (arguably) despite the issues OP pointed out, which he hopes to see addressed. And I do too.

Ah yes, you're right about that. Well in that case I guess RT would be the only avenue for improvement? I'm excited to see what they come up with and happy we're just a bit over a month away.

Not necessarily, they could work on a software GI solution comparable to Lumen or, in theory, the super heavy Naughty Dog solution (applied to the sun instead of flashlight).

Idk man I wouldn't right off Decima so quickly. I mean this is Guerilla Games we're talking about and I get the feeling they want to make a statement with their first PS5 software, regardless if it's just an expansion/DLC.

I am not, but for the reasons you stated in the opening post, Decima clearly ain't perfect. And you basically expect perfection, because Forbidden West with better lighting and no pop-in would be just about perfect.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This is what I'm thinking which means it'll still look amazing but not tap into the PS5's power too much just like Forbidden West

Or we could be wrong and this DLC serves as a testing ground for the shift to PS5 and they'll try to build up the data streaming accordingly and introduce some cool stuff.

 

[ChiefDada]

Not necessarily, they could work on a software GI solution comparable to Lumen or, in theory, the super heavy Naughty Dog solution (applied to the sun instead of flashlight).

Aww man I'm glad I'm not the only one that found the flashlight in TLOU Remake to be downright impressive. The Sewer level - my goodness! Probably the only person more impressed with the flashlight than me is my good buddy, GymWolf

 

[Hobbygaming]

Or we could be wrong and this DLC serves as a testing ground for the shift to PS5 and they'll try to build up the data streaming accordingly and introduce some cool stuff.

That's true and that would make me the happiest man ever but I start thinking about how much planning would've had to be done for this DLC to be so much more advanced than the standard game

Either way it'll still be the best looker until Spider-man 2

 

[ahtlas7]

Improved combat with blocks and counters?

 

[Vick]

It will probably look the same but will let you fly some bird around the map as a mount or some shit the base ps4 can't handle.

But that's already in the base game..

Aww man I'm glad I'm not the only one that found the flashlight in TLOU Remake to be downright impressive. The Sewer level - my goodness! Probably the only person more impressed with the flashlight than me is my good buddy, GymWolf

Nah man, I've been mindblown by their GI tech since TLOU on PS3.. I literally cannot play a ND game without spending hours playing with bounce lighting, and this is no hyperbole at all nor exaggeration.







Especially in TLOU Part II, as the whole environment lighting changes based not only on where you're pointing the flashlight/camera, but also on your position. The stuff you could do with lighting while going prone is fucking mental.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It’s exclusive to make development easier, not because it’s going to take better advantage of the PS5

 

[skit_data]

I don’t think there will be any drastic differences from the base game on PS5, it already looked pretty damn good. I think the notable differences will be on the developer end of things.

 

[RCU005]

It's PS5 only, so it would be weird if it did. Also this from the developer:

In all honestly, the fact that is PS5-only might be due to the backlash they’ve been getting about cross-gen games. It’s almost three years and less than 5% games are PS5-only. And out of those, NONE are games that you could say are only possible on PS5.

 

[remember_spinal]

Game is a month away with no info still

 

[Yoboman]

Assuming next gen only I think Factions 2 will be the showcase

Could also be Spiderman 2 but have yet to see Insomniac step up to that level

 

[ChiefDada]

It’s exclusive to make development easier, not because it’s going to take better advantage of the PS5

How/why are you separating the two? It's easier for developers because they can go nuts on PS5 and utilize any/every tool they want from the new hardware without needing to cater to PS4. Taking full advantage is what makes it easier for them.

Anyways, I'm surprised to see so many people in the thread believe a PS5 only title from Guerilla Games will have only marginal improvement over it's cross-gen prequel, and I can't wait to come back to some of these comments in a month's time. Not saying me/others are right or wrong, I just think it will be interesting to look back.

 

[GymWolf]

I think it's gonna look a bit better than hfw.

Real nextgen horizon is gonna be horizon 3.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

How/why are you separating the two? It's easier for developers because they can go nuts on PS5 and utilize any/every tool they want from the new hardware without needing to cater to PS4. Taking full advantage is what makes it easier for them.

Anyways, I'm surprised to see so many people in the thread believe a PS5 only title from Guerilla Games will have only marginal improvement over it's cross-gen prequel, and I can't wait to come back to some of these comments in a month's time. Not saying me/others are right or wrong, I just think it will be interesting to look back.

It’s using an established engine that already runs great, it would take more than a year to significantly retool the engine any further for ps5 optimizations.

I think it’ll look better but not meaningfully so

 

[Bartski]

Not a chance for all 3. Call of the mountain has the most obnoxious pop-in in places where it needed not to have it the most and there is no way they're re-working collision physics, they'll suck all the same.
Don't get me wrong it will be a gorgeous looking game and I'm in, but I'm guessing it's ps5 only by some bonkers airborn combat with a Horus

 

[rofif]

Will look amazing but it will still be a horizon game

 

[MaxwellParrish]

Not a chance for all 3. Call of the mountain has the most obnoxious pop-in in places where it needed not to have it the most and there is no way they're re-working collision physics, they'll suck all the same.
Don't get me wrong it will be a gorgeous looking game and I'm in, but I'm guessing it's ps5 only by some bonkers airborn combat with a Horus

Call of the Mountain is neither Guerrilla Games nor Decima Engine. It's a Firesprite game made in Unreal Engine and it has technically nothing to do with whatever is the actual state of Decima. Between, Death Stranding 2 has been announced exclusevily for PS5, I think, so I guess Decima has already been updated to fully support the console.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah, nah. This is the video games industry. They’ll do the absolute bare minimum to be able to say ‘only runs on Ps5’ in the marketing. It will look and play virtually the same as the main game.

 

[lh032]

1. Minor upgrades visually
2. Probably extra features
3. And next gen 30 fps *shudders

 

[Robb]

Nah, I wouldn’t expect anything big. Or rather it might seem big ‘for a DLC’, but it won’t be anything like getting a standalone game built from the ground up.

 

[Ammogeddon]

I’m not expecting any graphical updates, just a new area and missions.

 

[damidu]

it’ll look somewhat better, which will be enough to automatically make it the best looking game released

 

[Bartski]

game made in Unreal Engine

ok right I didn't notice that.

I still don't expect the DLC to be a massive upgrade of HFW visuals. I hope for big gameplay setpiece moments, maybe mounting larger machines like the stormbird

 

[CamHostage]

Considering the improvement of the Decima Engine from Zero Dawn to Frozen Wilds occurred within the same generation and was enough of a leap for DF/Eurogamer to go goo-goo gaga over it, I think there's a great chance the Decima Engine could see some dramatic improvements for PS5.

Frozen Wilds was a great improvement, but it was additive. Great new snow tracking, better water movement, some new weather patterns off of its Nubis cloud VFX system. It was all stuff that was cool and "better than before", but much of it was made for the DLC because the DLC wouldn't be what it was without some new tech.

Many of the things you're talking about would be engine overhauls, which would be unusual for what's considered here DLC, though it is possible to do core rewrites if they treated it as its own product (and particularly if, as Nightmare-Slain said, the map is not fused directly into the base map and stand alone.) Generally improvements delivered in a DLC are less about what can be done by finding "more power" in optimizing the engine, rather it's adding in new subsystems or building a new tool specifically for the challenges that content poses; it's less about better math than it is new math for the new scenarios.

But, maybe? DLC tends not to divide generations like this one will, so this could be a unique case.

Also, GG developers discussed a while back how there was tech in the PS5 that they would have liked to use for HFW but couldn't because it would have excluded PS4.

Hmm... You're going to have to track down that quote.

Cross-gen has been a confusing (and on the surface frustrating) aspect of this gen so far, but I have not seen a developer themselves say the past-gen was what really held them back, when they're not using past-gen they do say they're pushing beyond what was possible with cross-gen but it's more about what was not possible if they tried to support both rather than something that they were "held back from" because they had to develop for two gens. (And going by reactions to most new-gen-only games released, they've still not gotten to the point where the advantage is as undeniable and impactful as in previous generations.)

I was bullish on next-gen-only back when Sony said they "believe in generations", and I desperately want to see these new consoles do more that I've never seen before thanks to their power, so my ears do perk up the same when a developer talks about next-gen-only. However, from most of what developers have said about the projects they're working on (and unfortunately, from evidence of some of the next-gen-only games they've released,) I would say cross-gen is somewhat unfairly held as the big bad holding next-gen back, and that the true circumstances of this gen's power revolution is much more complicated.

 

[deriks]

Option 3: won't achieve greatness