Support NeoGAF

[HL3.exe]

Some of these were scrapped because it didn't go well I guess, Euphoria is still used but it had a heavy weight that made some gameplay features such as driving in GTA IV to be boat like, and even movement in GTA V is kinda hassle, Max Payne 3 was also clunky at times.

Common misconceptions about euphoria and Rockstar's animation heavy priority. Character responsiveness has nothing to do with the euphoria tech, it's an intended design choice on rockstar's part. Euphoria only kicks in at certain states, the rest is just blended mocap.

The reason euphoria isn't popular is complicated:

1# it's not a plug and play middleware solution. You need to hire a team to implement it.

2# it needs to gel with the chosen physics engine. They chose 'Bullet physics' because of it's open source nature, but therefore it implemented deep into RAGE's core, so it's hard to make iteration changes.

3# euphoria's developer got bought up, and isn't developing new tool, only still offering support.

4# bit of a sidenote: Euphoria is heavily single threaded on CPU. it's developed in the era where developers though higher clock speed single threaded performance was going to be the future (it turns out, not at all). And because of point 3# it's not really future proof, which is a shame. Crysis 1 is a great example of this same fallacy. (Designed around single threaded speed, remaster even nurfing NPC amount because it's still to heavy for today's CPU's)

 

[Fafalada]

Sega Rally on 360 and it's amazing track deformation

This one isn't a 'one-game thing' though, it's had a wide-spread adoption for at least 16 years or so. You might be more familiar seeing it on snow/sand surfaces, but it's basically the same thing.

 

[pramod]

Bleemcast

 

[64bitmodels]

BeamNG drive has the best car destruction physics of any game yet. It's extremely accurate, well made, and is even used by car manufacturers to imagine actual car crashes.


it's also a technology from 2013. and no developer has called up the studio responsible to get them to put it to work on an official game like a burnout sequel

 

[ReBurn]

That was never seen again because it kinda sucked.

 

[ReBurn]

Bleemcast

Emulation is very much still a thing.

 

[acm2000]

This one isn't a 'one-game thing' though, it's had a wide-spread adoption for at least 16 years or so. You might be more familiar seeing it on snow/sand surfaces, but it's basically the same thing.

This has a whole system in place for the deformation to fill up with water too and affected the physics etc

 

[Clinton514]

I never followed after this trailer but obviously this game never came into existence.

 

[CaptainSlayAHo]

Two games instead of one, and probably already mentioned but the nemesis system

Apparently the Harry Potter game is supposed to have something like it (both owned by WB), but I'll believe it when I see it

 

[adamsapple]

Two games instead of one, and probably already mentioned but the nemesis system

Apparently the Harry Potter game is supposed to have something like it (both owned by WB), but I'll believe it when I see it

Another vote for this.

There are so many IPs and even new games which could benefit from a persistent Nemesis system like formula.

Imagine a Batman game with a persistent Nemesis system.

 

[Magic Carpet]

That was never seen again because it kinda sucked.

What sucked? The 3d or the QTE gameplay?

 

[Fafalada]

This has a whole system in place for the deformation to fill up with water too and affected the physics etc

In racing games these always affected physics - in other games, it's a bit more depending on the type of game, but it's still quite common to have an effect.
The water bit is an extension of the same underlying system - much like I've seen at least one case where the deformations can be filled back with snowfall.

BeamNG drive has the best car destruction physics of any game yet.

The fun bit with that deformation-tech was that it's literally using cloth-physics deformation, so it's not like it was even all that proprietary (most realtime cloth solvers can be setup to work that way).
Cloth solvers do have some limitations on how practical it all is, though I don't know if that's the main reason vehicles in games aren't using this.

 

[ReBurn]

What sucked? The 3d or the QTE gameplay?

Yes.

 

[CaptainSlayAHo]

Another vote for this.

There are so many IPs and even new games which could benefit from a persistent Nemesis system like formula.

Imagine a Batman game with a persistent Nemesis system.

They're currently making a wonder woman game that WILL have it (same developer as well)....

That being said WB has specifically mentioned future batman games using it. No clue if that includes suicide squad or Gotham, but I'd be surprised if either has it tbh .

 

[bitbydeath]

KZ2 bullet reactions, I don’t recall KZ3 even having this feature, let alone any game that came after.

 

[bitbydeath]

Motorstorm - mud physic terrain deformation.
No racing game, not even the later Motorstorms re-attempted it.

 

[acm2000]

In racing games these always affected physics - in other games, it's a bit more depending on the type of game, but it's still quite common to have an effect.
The water bit is an extension of the same underlying system - much like I've seen at least one case where the deformations can be filled back with snowfall.


The fun bit with that deformation-tech was that it's literally using cloth-physics deformation, so it's not like it was even all that proprietary (most realtime cloth solvers can be setup to work that way).
Cloth solvers do have some limitations on how practical it all is, though I don't know if that's the main reason vehicles in games aren't using this.

The thread is literally about tech that was developed and abandoned, they made the best deformation of any Racer, especially on console for 2008, and then never used it again

 

[Fafalada]

The thread is literally about tech that was developed and abandoned, they made the best deformation of any Racer, especially on console for 2008, and then never used it again

But others did use it (before and after).
Unless it goes into some semantics of 'did it look exactly identical to the game X' (which is never the case, tech always evolves and changes) it wasn't abandoned.
You could perhaps argue Sega abandoned it - but then, when was the last time Sega made a Sega Rally? Oh, right...

Goes for above post about MS as well - which is an earlier iteration of the same thing. The specific approach to surface deformation is still alive and well, it just evolved past 'mud-tracks' being the sole marketing angle, so public stopped paying attention to it in the same context.

 

[amigastar]

Batman Arhkham Asylum Fog

 

[Diddy X]

From Halo 3 to Halo Reach they had to tone down the physics and lighting to improve graphics.

2 generations later they haven't improved the physics a bit from the ps360 era.

It's kinda lame that games look so much better but interaction and physics are so far behind when they should be prioritized in videogames.

 

[adamsapple]

KZ2 bullet reactions, I don’t recall KZ3 even having this feature, let alone any game that came after.

Rage had very good hit reactions for its time.

 

[Yoboman]

Disbanding the incredible CPUs PS360 used was a real detriment in retrospect. We traded all these cool advancements in physics, simulations, animations off for a bump in resolution

 

[MisterBrimstone]

Does that zombie game for Wii U count?

 

[Kikorin]

Sega Rally on 360 and it's amazing track deformation

True, it was incredible, I still remember the demo. I was blown up.

Common misconceptions about euphoria and Rockstar's animation heavy priority. Character responsiveness has nothing to do with the euphoria tech, it's an intended design choice on rockstar's part. Euphoria only kicks in at certain states, the rest is just blended mocap.

The reason euphoria isn't popular is complicated:

1# it's not a plug and play middleware solution. You need to hire a team to implement it.

2# it needs to gel with the chosen physics engine. They chose 'Bullet physics' because of it's open source nature, but therefore it implemented deep into RAGE's core, so it's hard to make iteration changes.

3# euphoria's developer got bought up, and isn't developing new tool, only still offering support.

4# bit of a sidenote: Euphoria is heavily single threaded on CPU. it's developed in the era where developers though higher clock speed single threaded performance was going to be the future (it turns out, not at all). And because of point 3# it's not really future proof, which is a shame. Crysis 1 is a great example of this same fallacy. (Designed around single threaded speed, remaster even nurfing NPC amount because it's still to heavy for today's CPU's)

Wow, thanks for the insight. I know basically nothing of what you written in your post, awesome stuff.

KZ2 bullet reactions, I don’t recall KZ3 even having this feature, let alone any game that came after.

So true, for some reasons Killzone 2 has ever felt better to play compared to 3. At least for me.

 

[justiceiro]

What, you play a washing machine?

 

[pramod]

The microphone in the Famicom pad
Lock on cart games ie Sonic and Knuckles

 

[Turk1993]

Motorstorm - mud physic terrain deformation.
No racing game, not even the later Motorstorms re-attempted it.

That looks pretty average for today's standards. We have much much better terrain deformation and mud physics in newer games now (plus more advanced physics simulation off terrain)
Forza Horizon 4

Mudrunner

and in games like snowrunner and Forza Horizon 5 its even better.

 

[bitbydeath]

That looks pretty average for today's standards. We have much much better terrain deformation and mud physics in newer games now (plus more advanced physics simulation off terrain)
Forza Horizon 4

Mudrunner

and in games like snowrunner and Forza Horizon 5 its even better.

I just googled and Forza Horizon series doesn’t do terrain defamation, just the texture changes to make it look driven on.

Probably the same for the other game I gather.

 

[clem84]

This is a very old video and I'm kinda sad we never saw anything developed for this.

 

[vewn]

I just googled and Forza Horizon series doesn’t do terrain defamation, just the texture changes to make it look driven on.

Probably the same for the other game I gather.

Please do proper research,
Driving over sand and snow in Horizon 4 & 5 displaces the ground, so does Mudrunner.

How could Forza Horizon 5 Creators forget this? #Shorts

It's an amazing game but I would really love a little more attention to detail.The game doesn't account the bumper in the sand deformation physics, tried wit...

youtube.com

 

[bitbydeath]

Please do proper research,
Driving over sand and snow in Horizon 4 & 5 displaces the ground, so does Mudrunner.

How could Forza Horizon 5 Creators forget this? #Shorts

It's an amazing game but I would really love a little more attention to detail.The game doesn't account the bumper in the sand deformation physics, tried wit...

youtube.com

You’re missing the difference, notice the car doesn’t bounce in the vid when driving over the sand it had already ridden through?

That’s because there is no terrain difference, it’s just a texture change.

 

[Turk1993]

I just googled and Forza Horizon series doesn’t do terrain defamation, just the texture changes to make it look driven on.

Probably the same for the other game I gather.

Yes it does, and its not just a texture it is literally the whole mud getting deformed and exposing the water under it. Also the cars react differently on different type surfaces on different seasons, and it goes deeper on really wet mud. Also the second game is literally mud simulator lol, it has the most advanced mud simulation in any game and yet you didn't even look for it.

starts at 2:40


And this is mudrunner which is just MUD porn

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Cool thread. Amazing what kind of tech can be achieved even on old consoles and weaker PCs. So it shows devs can do it in they really wanted to. If 15 year old games can do it, 2022 gaming can.

L.A Noire face animation


I know people think it’s creepy but since so many modern games has crap facial animations we need to go back and give this tech another try.

First thing that came to my mind was LA Noire facial mo cap. A game that came out 11 years ago first on 360/PS3 consoles, and probably still has the best face/lip mo cap in gaming.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yes it does, and its not just a texture it is literally the whole mud getting deformed and exposing the water under it. Also the cars react differently on different type surfaces on different seasons, and it goes deeper on really wet mud. Also the second game is literally mud simulator lol, it has the most advanced mud simulation in any game and yet you didn't even look for it.

starts at 2:40


And this is mudrunner which is just MUD porn

First video no, but you’re right with the second one, I haven’t seen that game before.

 

[Sosokrates]

I dont think anything really, every tech area has progressed.

 

[Later Alligator]

im going to say red faction

pretty cool how basically everything was destructible, and is still an area where most games lag behind (interactive set pieces)

 

[CamHostage]

This is a very old video and I'm kinda sad we never saw anything developed for this.

Technically, the New Nintendo 3DS models used camera-assisted orientation of face-tracking for its 3D effect to improve the look of its 3D screen. So it sort of did get used, once...

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/02/new-nintendo-3ds-xl-review-return-to-the-third-dimension/

Still, it would have been cool to see this effect used on a big-screen game too, as the pseudo-3D effect is pretty convincing and exciting in the demo here. (I'm not sure how well it would convert to a normal polygonal scene, as it's dependent on the player moving around a lot to create their own sense of perspective, but I've always liked the effect he achiveved.)

3D in general, I'm actually sad it went away. Sure, it was a gimmick, overused and overpriced (although my 3DTV was about the same as comparable displays, so I feel like the markup wasn't always out of control?), but TV manufacturers gave up too early and now aren't even offering options for those who actually like 3D. A 4K 3D video stream would be much better than the previous approach, and while passive 3D adds complication to the TV manufacturing (though I like it better), active 3D is AFAIK just a matter of synching the TV with the glasses, yet no TV offers it. And same-screen multiplayer was a really cool feature that died with just one use but is technically as easy to implement as split-screen.

 

[pqueue]

Does it count?

still have mine, almost good as new

 

[teezzy]

Boktai's solar sensor

 

[Cert.in.Death]

The Fox Engine

Sure it was repurposed for PES and perhaps some others, but we’ve yet to see it truly live again since MGSV (and don’t you dare point out MGSurvive).

 

[D3SCHA1N]

Two games instead of one, and probably already mentioned but the nemesis system

Apparently the Harry Potter game is supposed to have something like it (both owned by WB), but I'll believe it when I see it

I believe the Wonder Woman game Monolith are working on now is going to use it as well, for both enemies and allies.

 

[Fredrik]

And this is mudrunner which is just MUD porn

MudRunners was/is so far ahead of everything when it comes to off road driving, and not just awesome mud deformation but how the suspension works and how the tires connect to the surface, even the cockpit view is great with the simulated head movements, and the water.
That is the PC version, right? Looks awesome.

 

[Fredrik]

First thing that came to my mind was LA Noire facial mo cap. A game that came out 11 years ago first on 360/PS3 consoles, and probably still has the best face/lip mo cap in gaming.

Yeah it still impress me. Others has said it’s not really motion capture, apparently they’re merging a video recording onto a 3D mesh somehow, but the result is still awesome and no I don’t think anyone has surpassed it yet.

the issue with this is that you have to capture face and body separately, which resulted in really weird looking animations as soon as any given character talked and moved at the same time.
it only worked really well when people sit still and barely move their head and body.

RPG devs could use that, then people you talk to are usually standing still, The Elder Scrolls, Starfield, would work perfectly.
It needs to be used again.
I think the original dev was disbanded, not sure who owns the tech now, it was patented iirc.

 

[sertopico]

Nvidia's HFTS - used pnly in The Division:

Granted, we can get the same if not better result now with RT shadows, but those are almost completely absent as well, only MW 2019 is what comes to my mind and that's pretty much it.

Also Nvidia's VXAO, only used it Rise of Tomb Raider - again, we can now have RT AO, but again - it's almost non-existent in games.

Kind of a bummer there are those raster-based technologies, as demanding as they are, but ended up as a curious experiment rather than being more widely adopted.

Also Watch Dogs 2 used that technique, but the performance hit was remarkably high (about 20 fps if not more). Those shadows were too heavy to handle, specially in an open world kind of context. Compared to the RT ones, the latter are more efficient, given you have the proper hardware.

 

[SpiceRacz]

That was never seen again because it kinda sucked.

I think it has more to do with that it was an oversized laserdisc arcade cabinet that was expensive to manufacture.

 

[rofif]

KZ2 bullet reactions, I don’t recall KZ3 even having this feature, let alone any game that came after.

I just want 4k60/120 release damn it!!

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[Robb]

On a more serious note, these were all pretty cool imo, despite not being focused purely on graphics/visuals:

Mario Party screen connection between multiple Switch:

Back touchpad on PSVita in Tearaway was pretty cool:

Swordplay in Red Steel 2 using WiiMotion+, which I personally though was better than what Nintendo did with Skyward Sword:

 

[MetalRain]

This is a very old video and I'm kinda sad we never saw anything developed for this.

TrackIR is actual product that works just like that video.

Game support isn't great, but technology exists and does work quite well. I think it's similar experience to sitting VR, but you can use your existing screen.

 

[AlphaDump]

Not released but worthy of checking out:

Wow, I've never seen this game before but this is what I imagine FEAR would be like today. Great post.

I hope some devs browsing are taking notice.