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Microsoft CEO: Xbox Series X|S Has Outsold PS5 in NA for 3 Qtrs in a Row. Sales tracking ahead of 360.

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Lognor

Banned
Here's the thing, I don't think it was foresight. It was luck. MS was not trying to make an easy to manufacture system that would be managable during COVID; they neither knew it would happen, nor that it would increase demand from all the bored people staying home. They simply wanted to have both the strongest AND the cheapest console at the same time, so they fragmented things. It was in stark contrast to PS5 "believe in Generations". Well as it turns out, MS made the lucky bet and Sony had to backpedal and begin treating PS4 like a PS5 Series S with its game releases.

Xbox has much better value proposition than last time, yes. But to be honest, I still think Sony could be mopping up if they had stock. Especially coming off Xbox One's reputation. The PS brand is a juggernaut. I remember thinking the PS2 was a bad value when it came out compared to Dreamcast. It still flicked away DC like it was a fly. Because Playstation. Look at the rabid demand for PS5s even now, and consider they are still making and selling more than the same period for PS4. It still feels like they can't make ANY because that's how little they are scratching the surface of demand.

I'm not even a Sony fanboy, if it were my way all games would be on Xbox because I hate using a PS controller. I didn't even appreciate PS1 and 2 libraries until years later. I'm not injecting my personal feelings or biases here, I have no desire to diminish any accomplishment against Sony. I'm just seeing it for what (I think) it really is.
Whether it was luck or foresight, it worked out really well for them! It certainly was foresight to make a console that had a lower entry point. Sony did the same thing with their discless PS5, but the savings were much more muted. 20% savings for the discless version vs 40% savings for the Series S. $300 is a great entry price for a current gen console when the Switch (a last gen console) is the same price! That's a hell of a value proposition for the Series S!

Are you certain about the PS5 selling more than the PS4 launch aligned? From a quick google search that does NOT appear to be the case. This article, although from May, shows that the PS5 is in fact behind the PS4 launch aligned: https://www.gameinformer.com/2022/0...d-to-stabilize-and-overtake-ps4-sales-by-2024

We get weekly numbers in Japan and even there where the PS4 launch was terrible due to the late launch compared to the rest of the world, the PS4 is still ahead. The PS5 will likely end up below the PS4 in total sales by the end of this gen.

We can all speculate about what could have happened if the PS5 was readily available, but that's all it is, speculation. The facts are the facts. Maybe the PS5 will overtake the PS4 by 2024 as the article suggests, but that is still over a year away and a lot can happen.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Ouch. OK, I was out of the loop with that. But it's still the fastest selling PS with no end to the demand in sight, and if anything this greater shortage just explains more why MS is able to sell extra Xbox's.

I’m not sure why you’re continually claiming most people are going online to buy a PS5 and picking up a Series S or X instead.

Is it so hard to accept that the Xbox consoles are selling well because people want to buy them?

If more PS5 stock were available, Sony would have higher sales figures. I don’t see any data that says MS would have much fewer sales.

I’ve never seen this as an either-or situation. Continually perplexes me that people keep categorizing everything into ‘winner’ and ‘loser’ brackets.
 
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BlackTron

Member
How is it the fastest selling if it's behind the PS4 launch aligned now?

Damn I knew it was tracking above PS4 before but I didn't realize how badly PS4 curbstomped it Q4 last year.

OK then I rescind my point about high demand despite selling PS4 numbers. It would perhaps be more accurate to say that if they had stock they could at least track with PS4. Again, my main point is that I think Xbox is backfilling a lot of those lost sales.

I think this is really bad for Sony, really good for Xbox. A lot of those buyers never would have bothered to compare the two. They would have simply bought a PS. Now that the shortage has given people reason to look for an alernative and try Xbox, they're realizing it's not so bad after all. But what's critical here is that Sony needed to lack stock for MS to get their foot in the door and win people over. This is a huge opportunity for Xbox brand and they ran with it.
 
And all it took them was to buy half the industry for themselves. Congrats Microsoft 👏
Ahh yes, one group of companies with mostly no games ready and delays, and another group that is still in the legal process.

Do you think before you post?

What are the lifetime numbers for all consoles? (If haven’t seen either at a store.)



The differences are negligible when it comes to output and hardware (outside of the disk drive). That’s why the PS5 Standard / DE is one SKU.
They are both literally registered in every country as two separate skus under the category of consumer electronics.

That would be huge for Xbox and rather expected for Sony (PS3 wasn't exactly the benchmark for them).
Except if they both beat those consoles it would indicate console market growth instead of a contraction like last gen.

360 was slow out of the gate. Not impressive.
Which is why they also brought up the Xbox One, which was ahead of the 360 still at this point and MS was touting it until it stopped being the case.

Is there any graph for Xbox 360 that we can use to get an idea where they are saleswise with Xbox Series? What’s their minimum sales figure after roughly 1.5 years?
You can use 360 NPD threads on here, it should be minimum around 17 million at this point but it's tracking ahead of that at this point, so it could be as high as 20 million which is a pretty big gap. Without another hint to let us narrow down the gap we can't really say anything other than the floor.

"We beat the PS5 for 3 quarters in North America (our strongest market) while the PS5 was heavily supply constrained due to production problems and failed to meet it's targets. Also, the Switch doesn't count because we sold less than it did."

They sure like to console war when it suits them, classic MS: "We don't talk about unit sales. Unless we have some shots to fire and info that suits us. But if we don't say anything please don't assume the worst."
What I find funny about this is that was the excuse form the start for PS5 sales, when they were outshipping the Xbox series, so all this shows is that Microsoft managed to gradually find a solution to ship more consoles than Sony, while the X is still often supply constrained, if anything that shows that the Xbox has been increasing its interest over the PS5 instead of the interest being in the PS5's favor and only low because of supply constraints, as Sony has picked up production and shipments since the start when they outshipped MS, which means that Xbox just found a away to be more efficient at producing and shipping Series X consoles, Series S was always there from the stat after being supply constrained only for a few months before being widely available, back when the PS5 was outshipping the Xbox.

So the supply constrain line doesn't add up.
I'd say 1/2 of the 360's were additional purchases.
I'd say you only use 1/2 your brain.

360's had warranties and then extended warranties, the RRoD issue was greatly reduced and near vanished by later 2008, the peak of RROD wasn't even a full year, and MS was reporting being backed up to resolve the replacements and fixes. There has been no merit to accusations that there was more than a couple million replacements world wide, and there's no merit to accusations that many of these customers had to rebuy. Considering therr was a drop in sales during the late peak period of RROD that doesn't even make sense.

So, console sales are important to Xbox. Who knew.
Yes please point me to those sales numbers you imagined in the OP. Which is what MS was talking about in the announcement your referencing.

This is course due to PlayStation being severely limited in supply and Xbox having less demand in other regions.
Yeah this isn't working anymore, it's been two years, they were outshipping Xbox from the start, you can't possibly believe this now if you have even marginal intelligence. It's twitter troll logic at this point.

MS itself is on record that they didn't make money (profits) neither on the OG xbox/360 and Xbox one generation.
Which is BS, the 360 made profits on the hardware going into 2009, and then the Slim came out and changed everything. The Xbox One launched with the intentional not to take a loss on each hardware sold. They only lost money on hardware on Xbox One in terms of either overshipping the TitanFall bundle, discount sales on the Unity bundle, or the Xbox One X (which is why they discontinued that early and it was build in such a way they couldn't drop the price muc). Also when sold the kinectless SKU leaving a bunch of unsold discounted Kinect SKUS in stores.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Was the whole game plan of the S and X to have the edge in power and the edge in pricing

Yep, and it's worked out great for moving units.

But you are. You're making a disingenuous claim that the XSS and XSX segment the market when neither the PS4/PS4 Pro or XB1S/XB1X did just because Sony didn't do a similar split this generation. It's the exact same situation as the Pro consoles last gen. Both play the exact same games, just at different resolution/price points. But you're pretending that it NOW segments the market because it's not "fair" to another platform who didn't follow the same strategy this cycle.

Pro/One X were mid gen refreshes introduced years after base consoles released and a response to rise in 4k tv popularity; for most it was an upgrade for existing PS4/XBONE owners. Series S and Series X came out at the same time and are targeting different markets from the get go. IF pro and one X came out simultaneously with their lower spec'd siblings then yes, I would say both platforms would've segmented the market.
 

ManaByte

Member
Pro/One X were mid gen refreshes introduced years after base consoles released and a response to rise in 4k tv popularity; for most it was an upgrade for existing PS4/XBONE owners. Series S and Series X came out at the same time and are targeting different markets from the get go. IF pro and one X came out simultaneously with their lower spec'd siblings then yes, I would say both platforms would've segmented the market.

How do they segment the market if they play the exact same games?

It's like an iPhone 13 Plus vs a normal iPhone 13.
 

BlackTron

Member
Whether it was luck or foresight, it worked out really well for them! It certainly was foresight to make a console that had a lower entry point. Sony did the same thing with their discless PS5, but the savings were much more muted. 20% savings for the discless version vs 40% savings for the Series S. $300 is a great entry price for a current gen console when the Switch (a last gen console) is the same price! That's a hell of a value proposition for the Series S!

Are you certain about the PS5 selling more than the PS4 launch aligned? From a quick google search that does NOT appear to be the case. This article, although from May, shows that the PS5 is in fact behind the PS4 launch aligned: https://www.gameinformer.com/2022/0...d-to-stabilize-and-overtake-ps4-sales-by-2024

We get weekly numbers in Japan and even there where the PS4 launch was terrible due to the late launch compared to the rest of the world, the PS4 is still ahead. The PS5 will likely end up below the PS4 in total sales by the end of this gen.

We can all speculate about what could have happened if the PS5 was readily available, but that's all it is, speculation. The facts are the facts. Maybe the PS5 will overtake the PS4 by 2024 as the article suggests, but that is still over a year away and a lot can happen.

I was wrong about PS5 tracking over PS4 that hasn't been true since last year.

Both MS and Sony had the idea to make a cost-saving console but with MS they wanted the price really low so they slashed the specs, Sony the idea was to shave off $100 without fragmenting it into two specs. But Sony's idea didn't make the system any easier or faster to manufacture...the disk drive won't make much difference here.

And that's the key difference, Series S ended up being so much easier to get into people's hands because the factories were actually able to pump out the parts necessary at the needed level. It wasn't their strategy to sell lots of Series S because Series X and PS5 were too rare to get, but it worked.

I actually feel a bit bad for Sony, covid REALLY messed up their whole game. Meanwhile MS has a strategy that I think, without covid, would have only brought marginal gains against PS.
 
I suppose we can keep playing this game of whether MS made the right move with the Series S until this gen ends. Right now it was clearly the right move. I don't think we have a breakdown between Series S and X sales (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but the Series S is the console that has been readily available all along. The SXS, like the PS5, has had sporadic availability.

And if the Series S does become long in the tooth as we move further into the gen, that's okay. Microsoft can probably make a new revision that is slightly more powerful like they did with the Xbox One S. And the Series S is inexpensive enough that if you need to replace it I don't see a massive uproar occurring. Nintendo pretty much has the OLED Switch as their base unit. My OG Switch still works fine, but they made some slight improvements and there wasn't a mass uproar about it. Microsoft can do something similar. And current gen games will continue to work on the Series S, but some of them might become less playable. The point is that Microsoft got the sales NOW. If the market shifts they can respond WHEN it does. But right now they clearly made the right call to make a Series S. It's paying dividends.

You continue to jump to conclusions without having any "real" insight to back up what your saying. Assuming the series S is mainly responsible for Xbox's success without having the hard numbers of Series S and X sold doesn't make sense. Also not factoring in the supply issues of the PS5 also doesn't make sense.

The digital PS5 is about $100 more than the Series S which isn't that much of a price difference when you consider the DE PS5 has more space and its a much more powerful console than the series S. So I don't think price is much of a factor here. The supply issues is definitely the main factor in why the PS5 is being outsold right now. You have to also factor in the crazy demand for PS5, I don't even think it would have helped if Sony created a Series S type edition.

Don't get me wrong, Xbox does deserve more success with the Series consoles compared to Xbox one because they have provided more value with these new consoles but the sale comparisons don't make sense right now for Xbox series vs PS5 again because the supply output isn't the same.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
How do they segment the market if they play the exact same games?

Market segmentation isn't about changing core offering (in this case gaming), it's about differentiating the offering enough to align with unique motivations between customers in a specific market (4k gaming vs mobility vs price, etc.)

It's like an iPhone 13 Plus vs a normal iPhone 13.

Lol ummm yeah this is an example of market segmentation.
 
360 days where they ended up in third place

Where's you proof without using made up numbers from Vgchartz or other peoples imaginations?

We know they have less global markets to satisfy demand for, meaning less consoles in those markets they need to supply. That allows them to pump stock into the few markets where demand is particularly high
You don't know this at all, around half its sales are outside the US, it's outpacing the Xbox One in most other countries where the Xbox One ws initially outpacing the 360 by this point except for some like Spain.
Even PS3 outsold X360...
Link me to Microsoft announced 360s LTD,

It's PR spin at its finest. It's not difficult to outsell something people couldn't buy. They produced more consoles than their competition so congrats on that I guess. Even today XSX is available while PS5 isn't.
I see PS5's and no XSX in some areas, I guess based on what area I am in the anecdote is the truth according to you right?

Tracking higher than Xbox 360 sales isn't a very high hurdle either. Gaming market grew a lot in the last 15 years... Xbox 360 was a long time ago.
You mean one of the fastest selling consoles at this point in gaming history, and a console that a this point was outpacing the PS2 in a few countries? Pretty good benchmark i'd say.

Dunno, what was the gap worldwide?

Had nothing to do with his question.

What was that gap in North America between PS3 and X360 by the end of the gen?
Like 30 million, PS3 got wrecked in NA, 360 almost cough the PS2 and passed the Wii. Kinect gave it a hefty second sprint too.
Hasn't America always been a strong area for MS? It makes sense they are providing more consoles to their strongest market.

It's also Sony's.

One X and PS4 Pro were refreshes well into the generation. The X and S are two entirely different consoles
Or the Xbox Series X and S are like if Xbox One launched with the PG model and the X on day one, it's really not this difficult.

MS supplies more units to NA I suppose, while the PlayStation brand is way more popular in most of the rest of the world,
In most spots Xbox Series is tracking ahead of Xbox One rest of the world, which by this point was still tracking ahead of the 360. The sales we've gotten recently from other countries (that have reported) shows outside a few exceptions the Xbox Series is doing relatively well outside the US, and where near half its sales are. Considering the estimates have Xbox at 16-17 million minimum and in NA Xbox Series is over 8 million that leave another near 8 million everywhere else.
 

ManaByte

Member
Market segmentation isn't about changing core offering (in this case gaming), it's about differentiating the offering enough to align with unique motivations between customers in a specific market (4k gaming vs mobility vs price, etc.)
18b8161c1f7edf8cc72746d372dc9c09.jpg
 

Ellery

Member
Nice one Xbox. They definitely released two hardware versions of the Xbox Series that are well balanced and overall a good hardware product that is quiet, cool and in the case of the Series X extremely powerful.

Design may depend on taste, but I think the Series X looks good and uses the design well to cool the components.

Going to be interesting what they are planning with the stronger version and whether we are going to see Series X performance in smaller form factor and what a Pro version would look like.
 

ManaByte

Member
Are you really not familiar with this concept? Here's a definition from Investopedia; beyond that, I can't think of a better approach to break it down any further.

You're trying to (falsely) apply investing terminology to video game hardware.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Are you really not familiar with this concept? Here's a definition from Investopedia; beyond that, I can't think of a better approach to break it down any further.

R9rtyln.jpg
I'm sure it's a valid concept, but where you draw the line on "groups or segments" is the entire debate here. It would be like arguing that no company should ever report total software sales, since all genres are different groups. I think most of us view the "group" of Series S/X as one group. That's been the traditional way of grouping consoles with multiple slightly different SKUs since the beginning of consoles.

I own a PS5, Switch and Series S. So which group am I in? The $300 prospective group? But I also bought a $500 console so it's really a totally arbitrary and unusual way to attempt to group things. No one does this.
 
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ManaByte

Member
I'm sure it's a valid concept, but where you draw the line on "groups or segments" is the entire debate here. It would be like arguing that no company should ever report total software sales, since all genres are different groups. I think most of us view the "group" of Series S/X as one group. That's been the traditional way of grouping consoles with multiple slightly different SKUs since the beginning of consoles.

I own a PS5, Switch and Series S. So which group am I in? The $300 prospective group? But I also bought a $500 console so it's really a totally arbitrary and unusual way to attempt to group things. No one does this.

Exactly, but now he's trying to split 4K and non-4K into different groups because one console didn't have a lower-cost non-4K option this cycle.
 

Belthazar

Member
Where's you proof without using made up numbers from Vgchartz or other peoples imaginations?

The proof is in the last time Microsoft reported on how many units of the console they sold it was at 84 million units. Sony's last report set the PS3 at 87.4 million units.

Hard to imagine Microsoft moved that many 360 units after One's Launch... The same for Sony. So their last reports is all we have to go by and by those Microsoft was again in third place, like they were every single generation since they entered the console space.
 
Lead in NA will only grow with more and more people having to look every penny.

Buying a PS5 for $549 and a game for $69 vs buying a Series S for $299 and 3 months of Game Pass for $1
That's an easy decision.


I'm not even sure anymore if I'll upgrade from Series S to Series X within this generation.
 
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Punished Miku

Gold Member
Exactly, but now he's trying to split 4K and non-4K into different groups because one console didn't have a lower-cost non-4K option this cycle.
Yeah. What if you bought a PS5 on black Friday in 5 years when it was $400? New consumer group? Doesn't count?

It's just kinda obviously silly.
 

Belthazar

Member
Considering the estimates have Xbox at 16-17 million minimum and in NA Xbox Series is over 8 million that leave another near 8 million everywhere else.

I haven't seen a single analyst claiming anywhere near that range, it's mostly around 15 million. And funny how estimates are now useful to claim Series' strong sales but are invalid when they're used to calculate 360's sales. Really funny.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
You're trying to (falsely) apply investing terminology to video game hardware.

Wtf this has NOTHING to do with investing! "Video game hardware" is a product so yes, the concept of market segmentation absolutely applies. Man, this place can be so weird sometimes.

I'm sure it's a valid concept, but where you draw the line on "groups or segments" is the entire debate here. It would be like arguing that no company should ever report total software sales, since all genres are different groups. I think most of us view the "group" of Series S/X as one group. That's been the traditional way of grouping consoles with multiple slightly different SKUs since the beginning of consoles.

Nothing Microsoft said was shady in comparison to any other company's financial press release. But analysts have always put company announcements into context. It really isn't a big deal, I regret even bringing it up. At the end of the day, Microsoft is doing great with the Series X and S and that's awesome.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Response:

You can think that but its just not true.
The XSS runs on the same OS and has the same games. The XSS will give the same experience as the XSX and PS5 but just at lower a resolution and other reduced visual settings.

The ps4 and xbox one were still counted as the same platform after the pro and 1X came out.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Wtf this has NOTHING to do with investing! "Video game hardware" is a product so yes, the concept of market segmentation absolutely applies. Man, this place can be so weird sometimes.



Nothing Microsoft said was shady in comparison to any other company's financial press release. But analysts have always put company announcements into context. It really isn't a big deal, I regret even bringing it up. At the end of the day, Microsoft is doing great with the Series X and S and that's awesome.
Not a big deal. I just disagree with your opinion on it. Good day sir. Kilik rules.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
One X and PS4 Pro were refreshes well into the generation. The X and S are two entirely different consoles with entirely different power profiles; it isn't shocking that people think a better picture would be separate SKU tracking. That said, if MS is selling more of their current generation consoles than SONY, that's a fair thing to note. . .just don't pretend they are the same machine. And the SWITCH comparison makes even less sense as those are really the same model just different form factors.

. . .also funny to throw "fanboyism" at someone else, when this is clearly the reason for your insistence for YOUR point.

They launched on the same day and play the exact same games. There's an iPhone and an iPhone 13 Pro, iPhone 13 etc it's all the same sales.

They are the same family of console, you can jump all the hoops you want but it doesn't make sense.

I buy a digital copy of a series game and itnwont run on anything else but a series s and X. Simple

If they launch a ps5 Pro does that count to ps5 sales?
 
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Kagey K

Banned
Exactly, but now he's trying to split 4K and non-4K into different groups because one console didn't have a lower-cost non-4K option this cycle.
Samsung: We sold XXXX million Galaxy S22

Gaffer: NO you didn't, you have S22, S22+ and S22 Ultra, break them all apart and tell us only what the Ultra sold.
The proof is in the last time Microsoft reported on how many units of the console they sold it was at 84 million units. Sony's last report set the PS3 at 87.4 million units.

Hard to imagine Microsoft moved that many 360 units after One's Launch... The same for Sony. So their last reports is all we have to go by and by those Microsoft was again in third place, like they were every single generation since they entered the console space.
Look at the difference in those reporting dates, also if 360 sold "not that many" after the one launched, most peoples estimated sale of the One are way underreported, as the were using 25-30% as estimated totals of revenue for 360.

Means the Xbox One would be somewhere in the 70 - 80 million range. I don't know how accurate that would be.
 
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ANDS

King of Gaslighting
They launched on the same day and play the exact same games. There's an iPhone and an iPhone 13 Pro, iPhone 13 etc it's all the same sales.

They are the same family of console, you can jump all the hoops you want but it doesn't make sense.

I buy a digital copy of a series game and itnwont run on anything else but a series s and X. Simple

If they launch a ps5 Pro does that count to ps5 sales?

So if you went into a bike dealership and put a down payment on a 600HP bike, and then got a 200HP bike out there door, it's all good because it's the same model year and will get me to my destination just like the 600HP option?

. . .and not for nothing but it's not even the point that there's a difference between the machines; it's totally fine to refer to MS and it's current console generation when discussing market position. It's the narrative that is being put out there from which this wild tangent about SKU's arises.
 

MacReady13

Member
Congratulations to MS. Game Pass is a beast.
So you're equating sales of the Xbox to Game Pass? Even though no one can willingly buy a PS5 almost anywhere around the world (Series X as well) yet Series S is available almost anywhere satiating most people hungry to jump into next gen? I guess this means that PC sales will rise dramatically soon, along with sales of compatible Samsung TV's...

From evidence i've seen in Australia, having a Series X available on Microsoft's store page will last for well over 24 hours. PS5 on the Sony sites lasts minutes...
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
So if you went into a bike dealership and put a down payment on a 600HP bike, and then got a 200HP bike out there door, it's all good because it's the same model year and will get me to my destination just like the 600HP option?

. . .and not for nothing but it's not even the point that there's a difference between the machines; it's totally fine to refer to MS and it's current console generation when discussing market position. It's the narrative that is being put out there from which this wild tangent about SKU's arises.

What the hell are you talking about....

..let's try a realistic analogy of your example...you go into buy a vw golf and they say they have the Golf R version but you can't afford it so you buy the golf 1.6 petrol without the fancy stereo and sports performance. It costs you less but its still a bloody VW GOLF and gets tallied up as a sale for that car...it just cost half as much.
 
I find it so weird that people say the series S isn't a Next gen title just because it doesn't output the same TF as the PS5 and X. Have any of you actually played on a series S. It produces visual almost identical to the other 2 minus the 4k resolution. It has the same tools and features as the X and plays games flawlessly.

Both the PS5 and X/s are selling great for being constrained but you can't use "the PS5 would be selling more if Sony had more" as an excuse as too why Xbox may be selling slightly more. Maybe if Xbox wasn't constrained it would be selling even more than it is 🤔 maybe not🤔 . Does it really matter NO should any of you care NO.

Forza if the promises are fulfilled, will be the first console game to have 4K 60fps high HDR with real-time raytracing everywhere with all the bells and whistles. Which the game was supposedly delayed for.

The Series S will have the same except in 1080P instead of 4k. if both those promises hold up then all these "S is struggling" posts will age like wet cheese.

Jesus guys, PS5 is probably going to outsell the Series consoles by 20-30mil worldwide by the end of the gen. There is no need to be so salty just because Xbox is doing better this gen.
It was always going to do better than XB1, which had some of the most negativity surrounding a product for its entire lifetime than i have ever seen for a major product. Throw in Gamepass on top, and the many studio buys, a lot more postivity around Xbox this gen, and obviously Xbox was going to do better.

Your precious sales war will still be won in the end.

Wait till the games drop first before saying someone won.
So what happened to Microsoft not caring about hardware console sales?

Why do so many of you hallucinate numbers in the OP that aren't there?

I don't care about what you consider next-gen or not.

I know for sure they are not comparable machines at all...

Neither is the GBA and GBA SP, or the OG DS and the DSI, which the latter had it's own games, and yet they were all counted as one machine. Or should we take GBASP sales out of GBA total sales, and take DSI sales out of DS total sales?

Yes, that's completely fine for a company to do, but it is still a bit weird considering Microsoft made a big deal downplaying console sales last gen.
Which they still haven't given.

They won't cos, Series SX is clearly not out selling PS5. Ther still a 5.5million gap that growing in favour of PS5
VGchartz is not a reliable source.

It 100% is NOT the only market that matters. Stop lying!
Talking about ignoring his post entirely, he was talking about what MOST developers used as their primary dev console, and in that case he's correct NA is usually the only one that matters, though sometimes UK does as well, hence when PS4 was the lead console last gen. Right now things are mixed but I think that will change in 2023, one way or the other.

Well they never said that, people on forums like this said that. Even Phil himself says hardware sales are important to them because Gamepass is primarily a game download service that needs hardware.
What they DID say in 2014 when they stopped giving out numbers was that simple hardware numbers are not as important measure of 'success' as they used to be as there are way more ways these days to make money on a console than simply game sales and selling an extra controller like it was with earlier gens.
They stopped giving numbers in 2015 not 2014, we know what the Xbox one sold in 2014. Also it wasn't just Xbox, 2015 was when MS as a whole was moving away from direct numbers in most parts of the business outside a quarter of windows phone sales and office installations. it's also when MS was flubbing their numbers for WIndows 10 by forcing underpowered machines to convert while you were asleep or at work unless you learned about that ahead of time and removed a file that was installed in your computer.

Doesn’t mean much since ps5 is supply constrained.
So is Series X.

Explain how Sony outshipped Xbox until late last year?

Xbox up until now has been functionally non-existent in Japan,

360 sold over 1.5 million consoles in Japan.

Didn’t they say that sold units don’t matter anymore and that’s why they don’t give any number ?
Show me the number in the OP?

Phil said they wouldnt. Whether you belive him or not is another matter but he literally said in an interview about 2 months before XSS/XSX launch thet no they wont be giving out console sales numbers, even if they were 'winning'.
Now if Satya wants to push out numbers that's another thing.
Someday many of those Series S machines are going to get traded up for a Series X or whatever the next Series letters will be.
That's the while point about all-access which people in this thread have entirely forgotten about. It is also to transition people from Xbox One gen to Xbox Series gen.

The launch of the Xbox One was an absolute disaster for Microsoft,
The "launch" of the Xbox One was an unprecedented success that broke records.
The proof is in the last time Microsoft reported on how many units of the console they sold it was at 84 million units. Sony's last report set the PS3 at 87.4 million units.

Hard to imagine Microsoft moved that many 360 units after One's Launch... The same for Sony. So their last reports is all we have to go by and by those Microsoft was again in third place, like they were every single generation since they entered the console space.

Sony stopped reporting after 360 widened the gap, they only reported after the 360 was discontinued.

You're ignorance on 360 selling after the 84 million is irrelevant, they were still selling consoles all the way through 2016, they had major sales in the holiday quarter in both 2014 and 2015 and that's not including the other months, and that's just in two countries. You seem to forget Xbox one sales declined significantly behind the 360 in 2015 and didn't pick back up until 2016 after their overshipped discount sales in Nov/Dec 2014, the last time Xbox One ever beat the PS4 monthly. Xbox Ones advantage rest of the world also declined astronomically at the same time, and 360's were dirt cheap with cheap games to boot.
 
CitizenKratos said:
This is course due to PlayStation being severely limited in supply and Xbox having less demand in other regions.

Yeah this isn't working anymore, it's been two years, they were outshipping Xbox from the start, you can't possibly believe this now if you have even marginal intelligence. It's twitter troll logic at this point.

I fail to see how anything has changed regarding supply limit vs (almost) two years ago. We are still supply limited (especially ps5). But please explain what you mean.

If you had marginal intelligence yourself you’d realize that Microsoft putting 70% of its resources into one region gives it a supply advantage in that same region when Sony is only putting 50% of its supply there.

Edit. And so this argument from Microsoft is paper thin.
 
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360 sold over 1.5 million consoles in Japan.
Wii, PS3, PSP, DS accounted for... 98(ish)% of the Japanese market during the time 360 was around. 1-1.5% market share qualifies as functionally non-existent, I would say. Given at the time, the console market was at it's widest ever in Japan, due to the success of the DS and then the Wii.

Hence, why Microsoft gave up on Japan a few years into 360, after seeing that Lost Odyssey, Infinite Undiscovery, Blue Dragon, etc really wasn't helping them make a dent in Japan, against Sony & Nintendo.
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Bringing clarity to the pointless discussion about SKU's. That you now seem to be wildly invested in (despite it not being the most interesting bit in the OP).

I couldn't care about skus.

An xbox series console is a series consoles...its that simple. It's other people that have issues with it and seem to struggle with reality.
 

waxer

Member
Nicely done. I was a big fan back in 360 days.

One note though is if that includes giveaways? In my country the cheaper s tends to be given away with contacts for power etc so there are always plenty in pawn shops.

I've also seen them discounted in the past. Probably due to prevailance.

I wait till halfway in console cycle once games and consoles are discounted before I jump on board so will be interesting to see which I choose this gen.
 
Microsoft putting 70% of its resources into one region
Here you are lying pulling things out your ass already.

Wii, PS3, PSP, DS accounted for... 98(ish)% of the Japanese market during the time 360 was around. 1-1.5% market share qualifies as functionally non-existent,
Which has nothing to do with the post I replied to. Dial back your fanboyism.

Hence, why Microsoft gave up on Japan a few years into 360
This never happened, they only gave up on funding Jrpgs because they weren't selling anywhere, not just in Japan, even with familiar names, MS was still trying in Japan and still had Japanese exclusive, some only released in Japan.

I fail to see how anything has changed regarding supply limit vs (almost) two years ago. We are still supply limited (especially ps5).

Sony was outshipping Xbox even in NA most of the console cycle so far, which means the only thing that changed even with PS5 productivity becomingbetter, was MS finding a way to produce more units over time until they ended up outshipping the PS5. In NA this is quite interesting because with PS5 production increasing, the Xbox production of the X was increasing at a higher rate, and people were still buying those consoles with those gradual increases, this means you can't actually blame supply constraints for PS5 sales in the three months MS won, because consumers were buying Series X as its production increase over time until it passed the production levels of the PS5.

This simply means that the demand was actually higher in NA for the X and not the PS5, otherwise the PS5 should have produced a much bigger gap in NA to the Xbox Series consoles in sales, and would also mean there should be MANY Xbox Series X on the shelves, Xbox One Titanfall levels, or launch Xbox One edition levels, if the PS5 demand was higher, and MS's increase in production wasn't based on it's own demand. But there isn't, it's still supply constrained, with the few places having a bit better supply, still greatly below what would be considered "normal" stock levels.

Even in Japan the X is supply constrained. As well as several other countries.

If your scenario actually made sense, and the PS5 supply constrained line held merit, than it would end up like Sweden or Spain, where the X was initially supply constrained, but as stock improved the demand wasn't there so when the X did produce more than the PS5 it resulted in a glut of stock, which is why both countries have shipments form last year still sitting on the shelves, while the PS5 is still hard to get.

In many other countries, and especially in NA, it's not the case, the X was behind PS5 production, and yet the gap wasn't very wide in several of them, and then over time since launch the Xbox Series X production and shipments increased, and people were still buying the Series X as soon as it came in, then finally, the Series X outproduced the PS5, and is still mostly supply constrained.

If what the common excuse in this thread was true, there would not be any supply constraints, the X wouldn't be selling much, and the PS5 wouldn't be a a very very very small lead away from being passed by the Xbox Series consoles in general in NA.

PS4 was supply constrained in NA and many other countries as an example, the Xbox One was initially supply constrained and was outshipped by the PS4, but the Xbox One (unlike the Xbox Series) more quickly ended up producing more and outshipping the PS4, and what did we see in NA and in other places as a result? piles of unsold Xbox Ones, in store shelves, in back rooms, on pallets in the middle of the floor.

This isn't even happening with the S model. But it's definitely not happening with the X model which is still supply constrained.

This is why the excuse of "PS5 is still supply constrained and if it wasn't it's be a blow out" is complete nonsense, and doesn't add up.
 
I think Xbox one was outselling the 360 at the start too

it was but not as this point, in NA. Some other countries yes for another few months.
The difference is that XSS has been very easy to find.

I'm sure if Sony shipped in fewer regions they would've had more stock available in the US.

They ere outshipping Xbox nearly this Whole console cycle until recently, this doesn't work.

Also the XSS has no relevance, the belief it's the biggest selling console or is mostly responsible for sales has no basis. But the belief in that myth is why people are so mad about the S and want to split its sales.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That says something about Sony. They haven't been able to overcome their supply chain issues. Microsoft is still having issues, but have been much more successful at this.

And I've said it before but the Series S was an absolutely brilliant move by Microsoft! They've been able to produce a ton of units to keep up with demand because of the less in-demand chip they're using in the Series S. Sony should have gone a similar route. The PS5 and PS5 discless version are too similar and thus they're both facing supply issues. It's going to be painful for a bit longer for Sony. Maybe by the end of next year they will be better equipped to meet demand. In the interim Microsoft will continue to gobble up market share.

No they aren't. Why you lying?
 
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